roommate/colleague situation

[Rrovertherainbow]

Hi all. I just moved in as roommates with a fellow graduate student a month ago. I am just editing this to simply say that I think I am taken advantage of financially. At the same time, we go to the same school, work with the same people and have the same professional cycle. As a matter of fact, I had felt kind of manipulated into accepting this arrangement. My original plan was to move in a different apartment in the same building, and live alone. I could afford it and still can (his situation is more complicated), but he asked in a way that implied that my continued admission in this professional cycle was contigent on my acceptance -he has been here longer, and I am a female academic with little (but increasing) confidence in my ability to fit in... But I do not even have that now, as throughout the month he goes off and meets these colleagues in hiding -then tells me he forgot to tell me about it. He also is bringing me down by being condescending, telling me my research is uncritical and of no value, my paying work in the department we study at is worthless and entry-level etc. I have, in the meantime, heard more enthusiastic feedback from my professors that he has, so this does not sit in, but I realize that this roommateship all comes in a very toxic package and stopping it (without professional damage) is going to take delicate work.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Rrovertherainbow

[Wiseman2]

Is this a romantic interest? Why would you move in if you can afford your own place?

[d0nnivain]

So move.  

If you can't move, make your own arrangements to meet people in the department.  You two are roommates not a couple.  He doesn't have to take you anywhere.  

When he criticizes you, tune him out.  while he's talking hum in your head & remind yourself that he's jealous.  Then ignore all of his suggestions & go back to what you were doing.  If his opinion has any academic validity, think it through & incorporate anything valuable but discard the rest as sour grapes.  

[Wiseman2]

If he's a superior/advisor it's sexual harassment. If you are sleeping with influential people because you think it will further your profession, that's just wrong.

Moving in as roommates with a man for "professional reasons" makes no sense. You're not the victim. You chose to move in when you could have rented something else.

[Rrovertherainbow]

24 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If he's a superior/advisor it's sexual harassment. If you are sleeping with influential people because you think it will further your profession, that's just wrong.

Moving in as roommates with a man for "professional reasons" makes no sense. You're not the victim. You chose to move in when you could have rented something else.

Who says I am sleeping with someone to get my professional way? I am a straight female in a long-distance, commited relationship and he is a gay man in a committed relationship also. His boyfriend practically lives with us, which is another issue: I get along with his boyfriend better than the roommate, but he is treating his boyfriend like a permanent guest, still splitting food and effort in half. 

We are graduate students and graduate students live with each other, and part of the reason to do so is because it's a good professional networking opportunity, besides a more economical option. I did not do something different than many people do all over the world. 

What is different is that upon moving in and signing a lease, I came across a bullying kind of behavior. So, please, refrain from such hasty judgments, such as that I slept with someone to advance my career. People who post already post dealing with a stressful situation. They do not need this kind of response. 

[Rrovertherainbow]

4 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

You two are roommates not a couple.  He doesn't have to take you anywhere.  

No, you are right. He does not have to take me everywhere. But here is what happened in as few words as possible: first time I go out after moving in, I am meeting a friend. I assume we are roommates, not a couple, like you said, so I just grab my purse and get to leave. He runs at the door hearing me and says 'oh, where are you going?', wishes me fun, and has a conversation later, acting hurt, about how we, as colleagues and roommates, have a great opportunity to share our networks, and that he would have loved to meet the friend I met etc... so, next time, I invite him, and he joins in... and I introduce him to people, whom, by the way, I see as people and friends, and interesting humans who have brilliant ideas. I do not see network for advancement, I see a network for intellectual growth. 

In this context, it's rich that he will literally sneak out to go meet people we both know -I would totally understand 'I need time alone with this group' but sneaking out is weird and makes me feel awkward... I've worked a lot on myself, to take responsibility for my actions and have dealt with narcissists in my personal life and my professional life... I thought I had a radar, but I guess I had let my guards down for this one. 

As far as his criticism is concerned: I am in a good place in my career, which is something I worked incredibly hard to build, and I have learned with a lot of work too how to separate constructive from toxic criticism. How to also build on the former and discard the latter. At this point, my professors' comments on my work are so enthusiastic, that it's hard for me to believe they are told for me. I have not shared with my roommate (or anyone except immediate family) these comments, because it is not my style to do that. I do not like bragging and if I repeated them, it would be arrogant. But it's also hard (and not my purpose) to hide things that are happening, for example, a professor offering additional funding, without me even looking for it. To hear him say 'don't look too much into this, the professor just had extra funding'... that's not nice. As a matter of fact, I know he is projecting his own situation, and up until a few days ago, I wish I could have helped. But right now, this kind of comments, along with obscure finances and me doing the majority of housework, have built up into a toxic elephant in the room... 

I hope this makes my initial post a bit clearer. 

[Wiseman2]

55 minutes ago, Rrovertherainbow said:

His boyfriend practically lives with us, which is another issue: I get along with his boyfriend better than the roommate, but he is treating his boyfriend like a permanent guest, still splitting food and effort in half. 

Ok you need to stop splitting food and chores/errands etc. Only buy your food, only cook for yourself, only clean up after yourself. Let those two do their own thing. Don't socialize with him/them. Make your own friends and your own connections professionally/academically. Ignore his comments. Simply walk away if he's being obnoxious.

[ShyViolet]

I fail to understand how he was able to manipulate/pressure you into moving in with him, if you were able to afford your own place, preferred to get your own place, and he's simply a fellow student and not in a position of power over you.  You didn't have to move in with him. I also don't really understand how having a roommate is necessary for "networking opportunities."  That doesn't really make sense.  You could have gotten your own place, and then simply networked with people in your professional circle the way everyone does.... by putting yourself out there and networking.  You didn't have to move in with this guy.  You made a mistake... fine, we all make mistakes.  Move out as soon as you can.

[Rrovertherainbow]

5 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

I fail to understand how he was able to manipulate/pressure you into moving in with him, if you were able to afford your own place, preferred to get your own place, and he's simply a fellow student and not in a position of power over you.  You didn't have to move in with him. I also don't really understand how having a roommate is necessary for "networking opportunities."  That doesn't really make sense.  You could have gotten your own place, and then simply networked with people in your professional circle the way everyone does.... by putting yourself out there and networking.  You didn't have to move in with this guy.  You made a mistake... fine, we all make mistakes.  Move out as soon as you can.

I said he presented it as a 'good opportunity' for networking, not that I deemed it 'necessary.' I never said I had to move in with him either. I had options, I chose the one that seemed more fun and appropriate for growth at the time, and of course, I made a mistake. I guess my question was not asked to gather sympathy or play victim, but opinions on how to undo this mistake with the least badmouthing on his behalf in the closed circle that I hang out with, as I navigate a difficult and stressful course of study that challenges the self-confidence of the majority of the population who have been there. If he behaves this way to me, he is sure to misrepresent the reasons for my leaving to others. By your standards, this is not a big deal, but my philosophy in life is that people are not disposables, and if I can avoid friction, I will.  

What I had not counted, when I asked for advice, was that this is indeed a closed circle and to their disapproval, I have others (and myself) having my back. If there are moderators, I would like this topic to be closed.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Rrovertherainbow

[d0nnivain]

13 hours ago, Rrovertherainbow said:

I guess my question was not asked to gather sympathy or play victim, but opinions on how to undo this mistake with the least badmouthing on his behalf in the closed circle that I hang out with, as I navigate a difficult and stressful course of study that challenges the self-confidence of the majority of the population who have been there. If he behaves this way to me, he is sure to misrepresent the reasons for my leaving to others. By your standards, this is not a big deal, but my philosophy in life is that people are not disposables, and if I can avoid friction, I will.  

People are not disposable but some people have to be jettisoned from your life for your own sanity. 

Tell a few close allies the truth about his odd behavior & unfounded criticisms.  Then move out.  Do not bad mouth him.  If people ask why you moved just say something non-committal like "i found out I preferred to live alone.'   Let your work speak for itself.  

I understand & empathize with your desire to avoid friction but sometimes you have to stick up for yourself even if it means there is friction.  

[Rrovertherainbow]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

People are not disposable but some people have to be jettisoned from your life for your own sanity. 

Tell a few close allies the truth about his odd behavior & unfounded criticisms.  Then move out.  Do not bad mouth him.  If people ask why you moved just say something non-committal like "i found out I preferred to live alone.'   Let your work speak for itself.  

I understand & empathize with your desire to avoid friction but sometimes you have to stick up for yourself even if it means there is friction.  

Thank you for this response, and definitely, you definitely get some people that you have to kick out, and there is not a nice way to do it. I was trying to avoid that, considering this is a co-worker of sorts, but if it comes down to it, then I will. Of course, I would never say anything bad, except when it comes to my own people/family, but I do have reasons to believe that he would do it -he already badmouthed his last roommate to me, again, after I moved in. 

What I was reacting strongly to, in the post you quoted, was a general misinterpretation -which I often see in online forums (not just responses to me)... I never presented this as a situation in which I am without agency or choice... I just asked the question that I think every human should ask in this setting: 'I already know this should stop, do you people have an idea how to stop it nicely?' It's okay if you don't, it's okay if you think this should stop in no uncertain terms, but telling me I victimize myself, that I make it sound I had no choice, that I should have known this would go this way from the beginning, or that this is as bad as sleeping with a superior... these are just uncalled for, and I do not see the usefulness. 

I just felt that there were posters in this thread who were misinterpreting what I was saying as: 'my entire life is hanging on what this guy will do if I move out' and that was not true. it is an oversimplification of the OP, and misinterpretation, as well as a general blame of the 'why can't you take care of yourself' kind. I can take care of myself and I am responsible for guarding my boundaries, that goes without saying. But, just because I am responsible for it, it does not make it okay for anyone to keep attacking these boundaries. The attacker is -always in my opinion -the jerk here. And the jerks who read this should know that they should respect boundaries, whether a person is firm towards them or not, not justify their actions by saying 'hey, nobody told me I could not do that.'

 

[Watercolors]

Higher Academia is rife with politics. So, you need to approach this bully-roommate from a political standpoint. And I'm being totally serious here. I grew up in Academia. 

If you move out/break your lease, how will that impact your professional network of contacts that you mutually share with your roommate? It shouldn't impact you too much. 

Will you be happier living alone? If not, why can't you break your lease to find another roommate opportunity that is a better fit for you, socially, professionally, and academically? 

You are not 'bound' to your roommate. He is not the maker or breaker of your academic career. He is just a roommate with a very strong personality who is competing against you right now with your professors, your work colleagues, and your classmates. That is what graduate school is about: competition. 

If you do not want to move out, then you need to shift your tactics as far as how you interact with your bully-roommate. Stop disclosing anything personal to him about who you socialize/network with. Stop sharing information. Stop giving him the opportunity to undermine you, as he has been doing. 

As far as networking, there are ways around him as your main source (as you currently view his presence) of contacts. Make your own! Join other grad students and network through them instead of through or with him. Remember, Higher Academia is about 'who you know' so you have to be strategic here. 

[ShyViolet]

1 hour ago, Rrovertherainbow said:

I just asked the question that I think every human should ask in this setting: 'I already know this should stop, do you people have an idea how to stop it nicely?'

You are being too nice, I think that's part of the problem.  He hasn't been nice to you.  You are too concerned about how to go about this "nicely."  You need to get out of this diplomatically and with as little drama as possible, since he's in your professional circle, but you also need to be firm and unapologetic and just do what you need to do.  What's wrong with just giving a short and sweet explanation like "I have decided that I prefer to have my own place" and leave it at that.

[Rrovertherainbow]

4 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Higher Academia is rife with politics. So, you need to approach this bully-roommate from a political standpoint. And I'm being totally serious here. I grew up in Academia. 

If you move out/break your lease, how will that impact your professional network of contacts that you mutually share with your roommate? It shouldn't impact you too much. 

Will you be happier living alone? If not, why can't you break your lease to find another roommate opportunity that is a better fit for you, socially, professionally, and academically? 

You are not 'bound' to your roommate. He is not the maker or breaker of your academic career. He is just a roommate with a very strong personality who is competing against you right now with your professors, your work colleagues, and your classmates. That is what graduate school is about: competition. 

If you do not want to move out, then you need to shift your tactics as far as how you interact with your bully-roommate. Stop disclosing anything personal to him about who you socialize/network with. Stop sharing information. Stop giving him the opportunity to undermine you, as he has been doing. 

As far as networking, there are ways around him as your main source (as you currently view his presence) of contacts. Make your own! Join other grad students and network through them instead of through or with him. Remember, Higher Academia is about 'who you know' so you have to be strategic here. 

I have talked about it with a couple of close family and in the anonymity of two forums. This is the best advice I have gotten -I can see you grew up in Academia. And thank you. I have spent a lot of time in it, but I truly think I was naive about the competition part. I realized it last night and again today, when I finally figured out that besides the condescension, he is making an effort to keep me occupied, while he knows i have a fast approaching deadline this week for one of the big milestones of the PhD journey. Today he and his partner threw an impromptu party... 

My plan for now is to separate activities, meals, expenses etc and simply share common areas -if this doesn't work, I will move out in the coming month. I will follow your advice and stop disclosing any information, this is crucial. As far as network is concerned, I have a very strong network of brilliant people (professors and colleagues), across campus, because I do very interdisciplinary work. His network is more situated in our department and my advisor's cycle. There is no space in that cycle to bypass him, because it is so small. Also, my advisor does like my work and likes how much his other colleagues like my work, but... when it comes to socializing -and promoting -he will socialize with his male students, roommate being one of those he keeps very close. It's not that he won't do his job with me, advising and mentoring (he does a great job), but with this group, he will put in 'heart.' This is where my anxiety lied. But then, I had some time to reflect as I wrote things down for the forum and the responses I got. And it is not such a big deal. I have enough of good work and high quality network of my own to make up for whatever damage the roommate will attempt to do if I move out. 

Thank you! 

[Rrovertherainbow]

4 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You are being too nice, I think that's part of the problem.  He hasn't been nice to you.  You are too concerned about how to go about this "nicely."  You need to get out of this diplomatically and with as little drama as possible, since he's in your professional circle, but you also need to be firm and unapologetic and just do what you need to do.  What's wrong with just giving a short and sweet explanation like "I have decided that I prefer to have my own place" and leave it at that.

You are right. I need to be unapologetic about it. I tried nice. It does not work. Like I mentioned in a response above, I will try for now to just separate things and avoid the work that is moving for the second time in a month. But if it does not work, I will move out next month. 

[Pumaza]

What ever the stiry now that youbwoke up and see this is a mess that you dont want take actions.

Start looking a new place. Dont tell him nothing. When you sure you gonna move out lwt him know you moving out. You want to live on your own.

Hes nothing yours.So you dont have to give him no long explanation.

And if at the job you find it to much to.Get a new job.New fresh air.

Do what is good for you. You need to have a nice youth.Not one doing stuff others want.

 

[Rrovertherainbow]

So, after talking to people here (see link below) about a roommate that seemed to be somehow abusive, I realized I needed a different kind of approach. I decided to move to a more independent roommateship model -and not go into the legal dispute that would be to break my lease. My roommate had insisted on sharing groceries/meal prep, but I told him I was no longer doing that. It took some time for him to adjust. I was firm with the message that his attempts at sharing were one-sided (him taking my stuff/food/prepared meals) and not welcome. 

I also made sure that he had no access to any information about my study and professional life, which destabilized him a bit -especially because he found out from others about a very good offer I got for professional development. It took him down to a spiral of passive-aggressive behaviors inside the house, but in general, I think I was doing very well in keeping our things separate and I was having a very good, productive time. I took the opportunity to see it as an exercise on focusing and testing my commitment (like some members suggested), which made me proud in handling this well. 

In any case, a few days ago, as his partner is out of town, he asked me about having a party (we had uncommittedly discussed the date a long time ago) this week. He said that we needed to plan and discuss how we would split expenses, cooking and cleaning. I told him that the demands on my schedule changed in the meantime, and I am dealing with a serious, tight deadline for a big project. That the covid-19 data in our area changed and does not look reassuring safety-wise. Also, that I am an introvert. That I love people, but I do not do small talk and I can't afford the energy to greet that many people for the first time -as most of the guests would be people I did not know. I have a very small group of very dear friends in the area (less than 5), but he is more sociable than me and has a wide network. So, I said that I am not willing to spend time cooking/cleaning to prepare and that even attending a party would be a strain, but I would be more willing for an intimate take-out dinner with two-three of our common friends, who I know practice social distancing. He said that he understood. 

A couple of hours later, he came to me and asked me if it was okay to have a party between 5-8pm to celebrate a special holiday from his country with people from the country, then invite our common friends when the party would be over and have dinner with them. I was working and did not have the energy for explaining again. So I told him 'I am sorry, I have already explained to you how I feel about a party. I will not be happy about it, and do not expect my participation or financial contribution.' He said he still wanted to have the party and that it was only going to be just to honor the holiday, between 5-8pm, that he did not have any expectations from me. I told him 'you leave me no choice but to leave during that time.' He said 'do as you wish, you are welcome to stay.' I, of course, left the day of the party, and went to work elsewhere. I asked him to keep the balcony door open at all times for the disease and that nobody would enter my room, to which he replied 'that goes without saying.' None of my wishes were respected, because when I came back at 9pm (an hour after the party was to end) to see our common friends, there were still 30 people in our relatively small apartment, dancing and drinking, the balcony door was closed and my bedroom door was open. He had also used up special food, which is kind of expensive, is from my home country, and had been in my mother's most recent care-package (before this went downhill, I had told him we could share, but had not meant share with such large group also). The party lasted until after 3am. They broke furniture. And police even stopped by to check in on us. 

At the end of that night, after the last guest left (and while he seemed to hold his own in front of company), my by then very drunk, very stoned roommate (I do not drink nor smoke and did not know that about him either) started yelling and slurring at me while aggressively moving towards me 'are you angry at me?'... I put my hands together in front of me in prayer stance and said 'I cannot talk about it now with you, we will have a very serious discussion in the morning'... and moved towards my bedroom. He tried to follow me, crying 'you are holding mystery' but I closed and locked the door to my bedroom. I was so distressed that it took me about two more hours to fall asleep. 

I did have a conversation with him in the afternoon because he was hangover in the morning. He admitted to doing nothing wrong, blamed me for being moody and non-cooperative and basically mansplained me throughout the conversation. I explained that to him and refused to continue discussing, except in writing. He said no to that. So we are not on speaking terms. 

In the meantime, I have found out that he has the tendency to talk to people about these issues -people who know each other. I mean, I will talk about it with my family or in a forum, but I won't go to people who know him. He, on the other hand, he did cause some damage to his previous roommate when he told one of her advisors about their problems living together -and managed to sidetrack her in their research group. Like me, she is a very committed, strong academically, female student, who also spent a lot of their living together time not talking to him. So I know what he will say about me: that I am too privileged to share anything, that I am a heartless, overly ambitious b@*&#, who can't see beyond work etc. I know it is only a matter of time, before he tells our advisor. For both of us, English is not the native tongue, but I speak and write it almost at the native level, despite learning it later in life. He, on the other hand, is struggling -or I have come to believe that his English is much better than he pretends it to be, but this way he 1. can pretend innocence at convenient times, 2. remain unaccountable for 'miscommunication' and 3. claim the moral privilege that he grew up not having the chance to learn it, implying it's a class thing... so he uses the english excuse for pretty much any conflict he has and expects a free pass. I have not excluded the option of moving out. But I know that it will do some damage to my reputation -and right now, he has managed to shake my performance confidence, so I am in the mentality that I can't handle a reputation injury (I know this will change as I pick up my work pace again). 

I guess I just wanted to share this story and confide it... and if anyone can give any advice that would minimize the damage... I am thinking about keeping a record of this behavior, and consider reporting it, if it becomes threatening again. But I am at loss about what to do except turn this into a very neutral, non-communicative zone -until I can move out. 

 

  

Edited September 20, 2020 by Rrovertherainbow

[ShyViolet]

I don't know what to tell you except that you need to move out as soon as possible.  This person has no respect for you and probably never will.  How soon will you be able to move out?

[Rrovertherainbow]

23 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

I don't know what to tell you except that you need to move out as soon as possible.  This person has no respect for you and probably never will.  How soon will you be able to move out?

the lease ends in August '21, but I am thinking of asking either that I rent another apartment in the building, or perhaps ask him to move out. The thing is, I do not want to be the person that leaves someone hanging, with a financial responsibility that they cannot handle. He is acting like he would deserve it, but he is a generally disrespectful human and once he is faced with extra expenses, his children (they do not live closeby) will lose the support, before he feels any discomfort. I am single, have no children or any financial baggage, and while this is a bigger apartment than I need, I could manage it. Of course, I could just find someone to sublease my room... 

[ShyViolet]

4 hours ago, Rrovertherainbow said:

the lease ends in August '21, but I am thinking of asking either that I rent another apartment in the building, or perhaps ask him to move out. The thing is, I do not want to be the person that leaves someone hanging, with a financial responsibility that they cannot handle. He is acting like he would deserve it, but he is a generally disrespectful human and once he is faced with extra expenses, his children (they do not live closeby) will lose the support, before he feels any discomfort. I am single, have no children or any financial baggage, and while this is a bigger apartment than I need, I could manage it. Of course, I could just find someone to sublease my room... 

You are being way too nice and accommodating for a person who has been completely crazy and disrespectful towards you.  Sometimes in life we need to do what's best for ourselves.  You don't owe him anything.  You need to stand up for yourself more.  August '21 is WAY too long to stay in a bad situation with a crazy roommate.  You should just give him ample notice that you are leaving, I'd say 60 days?  And leave.  That gives him enough time to find a replacement roommate.

[basil67]

Shy Violet is more generous than me.   I'd give the minimum amount of notice which your lease allows.   Either way, you have to go yourself out.

[Rrovertherainbow]

10 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You are being way too nice and accommodating for a person who has been completely crazy and disrespectful towards you.  Sometimes in life we need to do what's best for ourselves.  You don't owe him anything.  You need to stand up for yourself more.  August '21 is WAY too long to stay in a bad situation with a crazy roommate.  You should just give him ample notice that you are leaving, I'd say 60 days?  And leave.  That gives him enough time to find a replacement roommate.

 

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Shy Violet is more generous than me.   I'd give the minimum amount of notice which your lease allows.   Either way, you have to go yourself out.

thank you both. I will do that. 

[d0nnivain]

Meanwhile put a lock on your internal door. 

 

[Rrovertherainbow]

4 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Meanwhile put a lock on your internal door. 

 

it locks from the inside at least, but yes, you are probably right 

[d0nnivain]

You need to be able to lock it when you go out.  Keep valuables like your research & care packages from home inside when you go out so him & his party guests don't invade your space.