Physx Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 Met someone off a dating app. First date, things seemed to go really well. Went out for drinks, ended up on a romantic stroll along a pier, kissing, etc. At one point during that date, I asked her what her ideal aspirations were (something casual, a relationship, wasn't sure, etc.). She was sort of vague, tip-toed around it, and the only thing I was really able to take away from it is she has trust issues. She was very affectionate during the walk, and seemed to want something beyond casual from my take on it. But, I also know I am clueless when it comes to women, so... Anyway, after the first date, she had a lot going on. She was visiting her sister who was about an hour away, then she went on a trip out of state. Considering I wasn't sure what we were, I was thinking her "sister" may have been another guy she was seeing, and wasn't sure what to think of the whole leaving the state for a while. So, we didn't see each other for a couple weeks. This past weekend, I dropped her a line and said I wanted to get together. She was on the fence at first, as she had plans with her girlfriends, but she ended up meeting up with me afterwards and spending the night. So yes, sex happened, both that night and the next morning. The next day, she said she had plans to go to the beach with someone, so I brought her back to her place. No invite out with her, so I wasn't going to invite myself. So, on that second date, we pretty much met up late at night, had some drinks, went back to my place for sex a couple times, and then went our own ways the next day. From MOST of this, I figured this is just going to be something casual. However, at one point that evening, she had said it had been like three months since she had sex. I was actually shocked with how fast it happened with us. Wasn't really sure how to take that. She seems to keep distant, so not really sure what this is? Talking to her on the phone is difficult, as she never seems to answer. I know texting isn't ideal, but not sure when I'll see her again, and really wondering what the heck this is. I feel like I'm getting mixed signals here. She has not mentioned anything about introducing me to her friends or anything like that, which makes me think it's casual. But, the whole three months thing makes me feel like that's something that's a big deal to her as well, so I'm just confused by this whole thing and not sure the best way to talk to her about it. I don't want to be too straight-forward and scare her away, but also don't want to NOT talk about it and make her feel like I'm not that interested myself. Suggestions?
Maldives Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 Mixed signals is your answer if you know what I mean Ain't your job to shed light on her insecurities that's for her to figure out I think. I went out with someone recently like that and it's just you putting all the effort in personally I can't handle that for very long nor like it Your call it shouldn't be that difficult if they are into u 2
Author Physx Posted August 25, 2020 Author Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Goodguy05 said: Mixed signals is your answer if you know what I mean Ain't your job to shed light on her insecurities that's for her to figure out I think. I went out with someone recently like that and it's just you putting all the effort in personally I can't handle that for very long nor like it Your call it shouldn't be that difficult if they are into u Thanks for the feedback. Not sure how long I can deal with it either. I actually messaged her recently saying that next time we get together, we should do something more fun than going out for drinks. Gave a few suggestions of things we've talked about as well. I'll see what the response is and take it from there. I feel like there is more to this situation than I'm seeing, which is why things are mixed. Like she wants to get closer, but is either afraid to or she's hiding something and keeping her distance to keep those secrets. 2
Wiseman2 Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 Sounds like you never had the exclusive talk so she's dating others. You need to step it up if you want more. 1
FudgeSwirl Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 Usually in the very beginning of dating, there should be a high level of interest. The first red flag was when she couldn't identify what type of relationship she was looking for. A second red flag, even if she is seeing other people because you are not exclusive yet, is the fact that she makes no effort to at least answer or return your calls or text. The fact that you are putting in so much effort into a relationship that only has had two dates and she hasn't bothered to balance that effort is proof that she isn't worth it. Sure, she may be insecure and that could be her reason for being distant but that's on her and not you. Also, if she's that insecure she isn't ready to date anybody even casually. 2
Versacehottie Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 eh.... well you've really only had two dates. Even though you're a guy, I would say the same thing to you as I would a girl: you just don't have enough information yet. I think it's too soon to talk about what it is. There is more than one way to be "direct". To me, the better way to show interest is through what you DO. You can show your interest by how you spend time together--IMO, concentrate on fun and getting to know her better--the rest will take care of itself if it is meant to be. In other words, you can't really change what her base attraction to you and what her real base intentions are about that. All you can really do is provide the best environment in which to discover if you are the right people for each other.j I would say also that if someone is hesitant it can be from "things"--some bad, of course (like other guys, not being close to ready, overall trust issues, etc) but some is just that they don't process things the way you do. She's essentially a stranger to you so you don't know really how her mind works and why she is holding back. If you have interest, you should just put the best of yourself out there to figure out if there is anything there--that way you won't have regret and give it the best chance to see if she is right for you. Obviously, sometimes people's communication styles are just SO far apart that it's just not workable. If you are looking to define what she is looking for after 2 dates (and assuming she is seeing another guy when she tells you she is off visiting her sister) you might be too sensitive for someone who holds back as much as she does. I don't think either thing is necessarily bad--the question is do they "go together". I think in terms of norms, 2 dates in is TOO early to be worried about this stuff. My advice is to have fun and tackle this bigger question after 8-10 dates. Also 3 weeks isn't a lot of time either. She sounds like she genuinely has other stuff going on--just because she is not like most girls who drop everything once a guy enters the picture, doesn't make her lying about what she is doing or less into you. People let you into their lives at different paces. Good luck 1
Wiseman2 Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 Drinks and back to your place for sex. Are you looking for dating or just hookups? Because as it stands now, these are just hookups. Decide what you want act accordingly. 1
d0nnivain Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 Try asking her out on a date not last minute. 2
smackie9 Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) She's just been hooking up. She ain't looking for anything real or simply doesn't want too much involvement. Her secretiveness doesn't mean trust issues either...she may have someone else in her life, or is multi dating. So if your time with her is just having sex, and no conversations of a personal nature and is so busy...it's purely casual. Edited August 25, 2020 by smackie9 2
kismetkismet Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 You're reading too much into the three months no-sex thing. That doesn't mean anything except that she hasn't had sex in three months. Right now it sounds like she's only interested in something casual. But, it's also possible she's just very busy and isn't 'sold' on you yet. Does she ever initiate conversation with you? I'd ask her out on a proper date and see how it goes. 2
Author Physx Posted August 25, 2020 Author Posted August 25, 2020 Thanks for all the feedback. Some of the main takeaways I got here are: 1) While she does usually respond to me within an hour or two at most, she doesn't ever tend to initiate conversation with me. That's making me think this isn't worth it. 2) I can tell she is hiding things. It's weird. Like she hasn't added me to FB yet, but I've seen hers. She has a different type of job on there than what she had on her dating profile (and claimed to me she has on multiple occasions), and has herself listed in a different city than the city she lives in. She also still has her ex-husbands last name (although no photos of them or him on her profile). I don't believe they live together, as I have both picked her up and dropped her off at her place on multiple occasions. I threw the suggestion of our next date out there last night and never heard back. Discouraging to say the least. Going to wait until Thursday and try inviting her out to dinner Friday afternoon/evening and see what happens. Not sure if that's far enough in advance? I just don't want to message her again too soon, particularly since she didn't reply to my last text. If we do go out, I'm going to be more straight-forward with her and try to see where her head is at. 1
Versacehottie Posted August 25, 2020 Posted August 25, 2020 49 minutes ago, Physx said: Thanks for all the feedback. Some of the main takeaways I got here are: 1) While she does usually respond to me within an hour or two at most, she doesn't ever tend to initiate conversation with me. That's making me think this isn't worth it. 2) I can tell she is hiding things. It's weird. Like she hasn't added me to FB yet, but I've seen hers. She has a different type of job on there than what she had on her dating profile (and claimed to me she has on multiple occasions), and has herself listed in a different city than the city she lives in. She also still has her ex-husbands last name (although no photos of them or him on her profile). I don't believe they live together, as I have both picked her up and dropped her off at her place on multiple occasions. I threw the suggestion of our next date out there last night and never heard back. Discouraging to say the least. Going to wait until Thursday and try inviting her out to dinner Friday afternoon/evening and see what happens. Not sure if that's far enough in advance? I just don't want to message her again too soon, particularly since she didn't reply to my last text. If we do go out, I'm going to be more straight-forward with her and try to see where her head is at. Regarding 1) I think you're being too sensitive on this subject. With the amount of time you've been going out and perhaps the way she is, this could mean nothing. It could mean something but it doesn't necessarily. She also could just be playing the game. Regarding 2) FB part is no big deal at all. If you've only gone on a couple of dates, IMO no way should you necessarily add the person to your social media--I can tell you friends of mine would do exactly what she is doing in this case. OK, the job, the city and name are more problematic. And perhaps the feeling that she is hiding stuff. Have you ever considered that she hasn't updated her FB since she lived in another place, was married etc? FB imo is kinda dead. So lots of people rarely go on there. depends on which type of person she is. Regarding not hearing back when you asked her out--THAT's the part that deserves weight in all of what you are thinking about. That part wouldn't really be worth it. That shows someone who is hesitant or not going to meet YOUR needs. You sound more sensitive than she is & perhaps you are right or also maybe slightly insecure if you don't get everything up front (in terms of reassurance). Agree with the bolded. I don't think you should be straight-forward because by that I think you mean you are going to ask her what's up or to define the relationship. You have to come up with your own ways to get reassurance & feel good rather that speed things up just so someone can tell you that. You have to realize that it won't change things to do that---not for the good, only for the bad, by pushing them away with your insecurity. Sorry, not trying to be mean, but this would just be too much at very few dates in. Maybe she just wants casual, ,maybe she doesn't know yet. IMO, just try to have fun. Why are you so eager to lock her down anyway? She might not even be worth it. You can't even tell yet--why are you trying to lock yourself into someone who might not be who you think she is or ready to date. For your own sake find out more before you try to define the relationship.Good luck 3
Uptown182 Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) Sounds like she might not be over her ex husband and she’s just looking for a hookup. When a woman is interested in a relationship we make it known. Edited August 26, 2020 by Uptown182 1
Author Physx Posted August 26, 2020 Author Posted August 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Versacehottie said: Regarding 1) I think you're being too sensitive on this subject. With the amount of time you've been going out and perhaps the way she is, this could mean nothing. It could mean something but it doesn't necessarily. She also could just be playing the game. Regarding 2) FB part is no big deal at all. If you've only gone on a couple of dates, IMO no way should you necessarily add the person to your social media--I can tell you friends of mine would do exactly what she is doing in this case. OK, the job, the city and name are more problematic. And perhaps the feeling that she is hiding stuff. Have you ever considered that she hasn't updated her FB since she lived in another place, was married etc? FB imo is kinda dead. So lots of people rarely go on there. depends on which type of person she is. Regarding not hearing back when you asked her out--THAT's the part that deserves weight in all of what you are thinking about. That part wouldn't really be worth it. That shows someone who is hesitant or not going to meet YOUR needs. You sound more sensitive than she is & perhaps you are right or also maybe slightly insecure if you don't get everything up front (in terms of reassurance). Agree with the bolded. I don't think you should be straight-forward because by that I think you mean you are going to ask her what's up or to define the relationship. You have to come up with your own ways to get reassurance & feel good rather that speed things up just so someone can tell you that. You have to realize that it won't change things to do that---not for the good, only for the bad, by pushing them away with your insecurity. Sorry, not trying to be mean, but this would just be too much at very few dates in. Maybe she just wants casual, ,maybe she doesn't know yet. IMO, just try to have fun. Why are you so eager to lock her down anyway? She might not even be worth it. You can't even tell yet--why are you trying to lock yourself into someone who might not be who you think she is or ready to date. For your own sake find out more before you try to define the relationship.Good luck Thanks for the feedback, and I completely get where you're coming from. It just drives me nuts not knowing where her head is at. I feel like more than anything, her distance just makes me feel like she isn't very interested, which makes me want to give up. The only reason I don't is because I feel maybe it is just her trust issues she mentioned and her being afraid of being hurt that causes her to keep her distance. Either way, the situation is something that is just bothering me at this point. Still no word back from her after suggesting another date last night, so not sure if I am going to bother anymore. If I do, I will try one last time Thurs for an invite Fri afternoon. As far as asking her what is up, I didn't plan to try and push defining what her and I are. More so seeing if it is something casual or has the potential to be more down the road. Plenty of ways I can bring that up in a way where I want to make sure we both see eye to eye on things. But, who knows if it will even get there. I just can't read her - at all. Very affectionate when with me, yet in other ways, very distant. 1
Author Physx Posted August 26, 2020 Author Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Uptown182 said: Sounds like she might not be over her ex husband and she’s just looking for a hookup. When a woman is interested in a relationship we make it known. I think they might still be living together. I'm not really sure what the deal is there. There are definitely things that aren't adding up, and she is definitely hiding things. In some ways, she is very open, but in others, very secretive. I wouldn't say all women make it known though. Some are afraid to. I've dealt with that in the past. I actually had a woman push me away because she was afraid of getting hurt, all to reach out six months later and tell me I was "the one that got away." That's what makes it so difficult is that every person handles things differently. I know I am over-thinking things. That's why I am horrible at dating. I over-think every little thing in the beginning. Takes me 2-3mos until I get more settled in. Relationships I'm great at, but I am well aware I am absolutely horrible at dating because of how much I overthink and question every little thing. It's hard for me not to when my mind runs a million miles a second 24/7. 1
Versacehottie Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 27 minutes ago, Physx said: I know I am over-thinking things. That's why I am horrible at dating. I over-think every little thing in the beginning. Takes me 2-3mos until I get more settled in. Relationships I'm great at, but I am well aware I am absolutely horrible at dating because of how much I overthink and question every little thing. It's hard for me not to when my mind runs a million miles a second 24/7. Why would you keep doing this if you know yourself & are aware though? You really have to attempt to control your irrational thoughts or sift through which ones might be irrational. This is kind of where I hoping you will see things when you are thinking about what you do & can control that possibly sabotages things when really the person might just be different than you or have another approach. In all honesty, she could still be half-in, half-out with someone (not necessarily together but maybe still heartbroken & not moving on or just complicated by the whole situation). There's some part where you have to control your irrational thinking because it screws you up which I noticed in some of what you said even before you spelled it out here. Just because you are uncomfortable, overthink, get anxious & question everything doesn't mean you are right or that "where it will end up is decided or a forgone conclusion". Your own inputs will determine that in part. I absolutely know women (and of course guys) who are slow to begin and don't give a lot away as far as where they stand at the beginning. It might be because they haven't decided!!! Also I do know people who were still getting over someone but because the YOU in their situation handled it well and showed the best of themselves, they set themselves up for the best chance & it did go their way. I can't guarantee a positive outcome by playing things the way I suggest. But you are always going to have to put yourself out there in the first months and deal with the uncertainty so you should try to get better at managing it. I can guarantee that a negative outcome is likely when you let your anxiety and all that stuff take over you presenting the best sides of yourself (like the guy who probably is a great boyfriend!). You know, so you can make it to that stage with the right person. I legit am not even sure she is the right person based on some of the rational conclusions you can take from this. Lack of getting back to you. that's simple, basic and legitimately telling. The rest of the stuff I would recommend to stop drawing conclusions or making assumptions. That's just your mind on overdrive trying to make sense of things and protect you from danger (a psychology thing which is the reason this happens to some people). So many girls have to wait and traditionally guys make many of these deciding initial things without giving much at all away about where they stand etc. You know a good amount of women don't deal with it well--they kind of have an excuse though because of traditional dating norms and the pretty typical part of guys being less expressive etc. So many threads and girlfriends in real life, I just have to say to people "calm down". Take it day by day etc. Don't try to jump to the end. I mean really in your case, what is the worst that will happen if it doesn't work out? Nothing really. You can sabotage it and it ends 2-3 dates in--still not a big deal--you reset & meet someone else eventually. She can be unfinished with her whatever or not into you and it ends 2-3 dates in or maybe longer--not a big deal--you will have had a chance to find out what her deal is--not by asking but by spending time with her. You can reset if that's what happens. The worst that will happen IMO is you saying the things above and carrying that to each and every relationship going forward making it a perpetual, vicious cycle that's tough to get out of because of your own beliefs about yourself and kind of an unwillingness to change your approach. Try to think at 2 dates in that you are just "gathering intel". No need to know where it's going. In fact, why not clarify the real job, real city (which is a weird one if you've dropped her off presumably you would know that; i guess it just bothers you that the FB is different?). I personally think you might also leave the ball in her court since you asked and all she needs to do is respond--maybe by vetting her that way, you can feel comfortable with what happens. That's a level of self-respect that you give yourself & a great starting place. Good luck 2
Wiseman2 Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 The best way to know if someone is living with someone else is to avoid hookups like this and go on a few public dates in your area and hers. 1
smackie9 Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 Sometimes people want to keep their private life private. I would never invite a guy I had a date or two with to my social media. You two barely know each other. Three week isn't that long. It's obvious she's keeping you at arms length. She's here for a good time but not a long time. 2
Author Physx Posted August 26, 2020 Author Posted August 26, 2020 10 hours ago, Versacehottie said: Why would you keep doing this if you know yourself & are aware though? You really have to attempt to control your irrational thoughts or sift through which ones might be irrational. This is kind of where I hoping you will see things when you are thinking about what you do & can control that possibly sabotages things when really the person might just be different than you or have another approach. In all honesty, she could still be half-in, half-out with someone (not necessarily together but maybe still heartbroken & not moving on or just complicated by the whole situation). There's some part where you have to control your irrational thinking because it screws you up which I noticed in some of what you said even before you spelled it out here. Just because you are uncomfortable, overthink, get anxious & question everything doesn't mean you are right or that "where it will end up is decided or a forgone conclusion". Your own inputs will determine that in part. I absolutely know women (and of course guys) who are slow to begin and don't give a lot away as far as where they stand at the beginning. It might be because they haven't decided!!! Also I do know people who were still getting over someone but because the YOU in their situation handled it well and showed the best of themselves, they set themselves up for the best chance & it did go their way. I can't guarantee a positive outcome by playing things the way I suggest. But you are always going to have to put yourself out there in the first months and deal with the uncertainty so you should try to get better at managing it. I can guarantee that a negative outcome is likely when you let your anxiety and all that stuff take over you presenting the best sides of yourself (like the guy who probably is a great boyfriend!). You know, so you can make it to that stage with the right person. I legit am not even sure she is the right person based on some of the rational conclusions you can take from this. Lack of getting back to you. that's simple, basic and legitimately telling. The rest of the stuff I would recommend to stop drawing conclusions or making assumptions. That's just your mind on overdrive trying to make sense of things and protect you from danger (a psychology thing which is the reason this happens to some people). So many girls have to wait and traditionally guys make many of these deciding initial things without giving much at all away about where they stand etc. You know a good amount of women don't deal with it well--they kind of have an excuse though because of traditional dating norms and the pretty typical part of guys being less expressive etc. So many threads and girlfriends in real life, I just have to say to people "calm down". Take it day by day etc. Don't try to jump to the end. I mean really in your case, what is the worst that will happen if it doesn't work out? Nothing really. You can sabotage it and it ends 2-3 dates in--still not a big deal--you reset & meet someone else eventually. She can be unfinished with her whatever or not into you and it ends 2-3 dates in or maybe longer--not a big deal--you will have had a chance to find out what her deal is--not by asking but by spending time with her. You can reset if that's what happens. The worst that will happen IMO is you saying the things above and carrying that to each and every relationship going forward making it a perpetual, vicious cycle that's tough to get out of because of your own beliefs about yourself and kind of an unwillingness to change your approach. Try to think at 2 dates in that you are just "gathering intel". No need to know where it's going. In fact, why not clarify the real job, real city (which is a weird one if you've dropped her off presumably you would know that; i guess it just bothers you that the FB is different?). I personally think you might also leave the ball in her court since you asked and all she needs to do is respond--maybe by vetting her that way, you can feel comfortable with what happens. That's a level of self-respect that you give yourself & a great starting place. Good luck It's not that I keep doing it to myself so much as it's how my brain works. I have worked on it over the years. I try to keep myself distracted from the person I'm dating. I do try. To give you a bit more insight into my problem, think Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, but with modest social skills. I have given speeches in front of thousands, but as far as relationships and reading emotions/intent, I'm horrible at it. Also not the greatest of understanding social boundaries, as I don't tend to have any. I'm very open with pretty much anything, so it's sometimes hard for me to understand what is and isn't socially acceptable to others. With that said, my challenge here is to know what is ok to ask her about and what would push her away. Based on what I know now, I feel she is keeping distance because she is lying about the things she is ashamed of, and is keeping me at arms reach to keep me from finding out. Just not sure how to handle that? The big things seem to be: 1) Despite her telling me she lives with her dad, I'm pretty sure she lives with her ex (they both have that same current address and are the only two that do). Seems like they are indeed separated or else she wouldn't have had me pick her up and drop her off, but not sure exactly what is going on there. 2) I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a job right now. Her dating profile originally said she lost her job due to covid and now "watches Netflix and stares at the sky." When I asked, she said she got hired back. Shortly after our date, she updated the profile to say the job was current. Meanwhile, based on her distance in the dating app, she is home pretty much all day long, and it's not a work from home job according to her. Also, it's one thing if she just isn't sure yet, but I don't want to waste my time with someone that just wants something casual if that's all it's going to be. So, the two big things I'm struggling with now are... - How do I handle the things I think she isn't being honest about without making her uncomfortable about it? - How/when do I try to figure out if she only wants something casual?
smackie9 Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) How? he behavior says it's casual. I think the booty call/meet up says it all. Edited August 26, 2020 by smackie9
Calmandfocused Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 You sound like a really nice guy from how you write. Can I ask: why are you so preoccupied with wanting to know what she wants and how she thinks about you? Why aren’t you paying attention to what you think about her and paying heed to this? I agree with you. She sounds secretive and I think she’s being misleading with the truth. Her living circumstances are very suspect. So my question to you is: why do you want someone like this? The information being presented to you is giving you the clear indication that this is not going to work. However just bare in mind that you need to chill out in the first stages of dating. It doesn’t matter if you have early sex. You don’t need to define anything after 2 dates. keep it in perspective and ensure that you don’t give off “needy“ vibes. I sense you may have done in this case. Don’t chase her anymore. Listen to your instinct and find someone more trustworthy to date.
Versacehottie Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Physx said: It's not that I keep doing it to myself so much as it's how my brain works. I have worked on it over the years. I try to keep myself distracted from the person I'm dating. I do try. To give you a bit more insight into my problem, think Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, but with modest social skills. I have given speeches in front of thousands, but as far as relationships and reading emotions/intent, I'm horrible at it. Also not the greatest of understanding social boundaries, as I don't tend to have any. I'm very open with pretty much anything, so it's sometimes hard for me to understand what is and isn't socially acceptable to others. With that said, my challenge here is to know what is ok to ask her about and what would push her away. Based on what I know now, I feel she is keeping distance because she is lying about the things she is ashamed of, and is keeping me at arms reach to keep me from finding out. Just not sure how to handle that? The big things seem to be: 1) Despite her telling me she lives with her dad, I'm pretty sure she lives with her ex (they both have that same current address and are the only two that do). Seems like they are indeed separated or else she wouldn't have had me pick her up and drop her off, but not sure exactly what is going on there. 2) I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a job right now. Her dating profile originally said she lost her job due to covid and now "watches Netflix and stares at the sky." When I asked, she said she got hired back. Shortly after our date, she updated the profile to say the job was current. Meanwhile, based on her distance in the dating app, she is home pretty much all day long, and it's not a work from home job according to her. Also, it's one thing if she just isn't sure yet, but I don't want to waste my time with someone that just wants something casual if that's all it's going to be. So, the two big things I'm struggling with now are... - How do I handle the things I think she isn't being honest about without making her uncomfortable about it? - How/when do I try to figure out if she only wants something casual? Yeah I get that it's how your brain works, but now that you know that you can do things about it. The first thing I think you need to do is separate what is rational thinking vs irrational. Currently, you are spending too much time & effort as well as it's derailing your own efforts & success rate to try to figure out what is "behind" her every move and the suspicious nature of your thinking. That's irrational and not helpful, in this case. You can't both "distance yourself from the person you are dating" and then let your overactive mind make up a whole bunch of stuff to fill in the blanks about what things mean & what is going to happen. You spend too much time in the worry zone. I just read today that this shortens your telomeres!! i.e. will affect the length and quality of your life. Same with cortisol etc from worrying. If this is how you are going to play it, I would almost prefer that you ask her what is up!! Though if I were to guess, I'll bet sometimes it's also never enough for you & you STILL don't believe what you are told by the person you are dating. Also if you feel like she is a liar to this extent, why would you even be INTERESTED in dating her? I'll bet that on some level your rational side, knows you are being irrational that's why you can never fully trust yourself. That would be another thing I would tell you to do: learn to trust yourself. Like I said above, what is the worst that happens if you "lose" her? You lose the effort of 2-3 dates over 3 weeks. It's covid so you probably aren't dating like crazy anyway so it's not a big loss. 3 weeks of time is relatively nothing---especially if you learn & improve yourself in the process which you can do even with a "fail"--which I would say it truly isn't a fail--every supposed fail that teaches you is a step closer to what you want. If it doesn't teach you, well yeah then it's a real fail. Still you didn't know her 3 weeks ago, so whether she is in or out of it has little bearing on your life & future at this point. Again it's a little irrational to kind of say you don't know the norms but are going to follow the whims of your brain which works on overdrive, when there are people here who are willing to tell you some norms. You sound smart so even with a variety of opinions, you can probably take the gist of it as far of parameters of what choices you have. Even if you don't like/take my advice, I still would recommend, seeing it through rather than do some of the advice that further perpetuates "she means this or she means that". Meaning even though I don't agree with it, I would rather see you ask her what's up & try to define the relationship on the very next try rather than assume what she is about. Part of the reason people have anxiety and overthinking brains is because they take a PASSIVE role in their own lives, as well as jump to the outcome they want rather than to TAKE ACTION, HAVE STANDARDS and see where things go. Whenever you find yourself "assuming" something about someone (in interpersonal stuff), it's better to clarify or ask what they mean by something they said or did. Doing all the snooping (FB & however you found info about current address) is not good for someone with an overactive (and fallible) mind. You are just providing fuel for overthinking.. If you aren't willing to act on it like it's 100% the truth, ie "she's lying about her living situation & i don't want to date a liar/someone who would lie about that" than it does no good to really snoop to find out. She might most definitely be keeping you at arms length because her life picture is not all rosy & perfect right now. Living with her dad alone (assuming it's the truth) can be embarrassing potentially. Stop saying you're horrible at dating and start changing how you do things within dating. You need neutral (or eventually positive) belief systems about yourself so that you can build on confidence about you in a dating situation. Just like you told me you are a great boyfriend. lol I definitely know the sheldon reference & yeah we would need to work on the fact that you could pick up on social clues. Also a sheldon trait is that he's all about himself---he knows he's quirky and has phobias etc but refuses to change. Funny on a tv show, not so much in real life, especially real life dating. Ok, If i were in your situation, a) I probably 99% would not date a just separated person--it fuels overthinking in people who don't have a tendency to do that. Plus it's confusing as far as what they will end up doing & their judgement as far as how soon they've decided to get back into dating. It may be totally fine but puts you in a position where it's difficult to ask because it's too soon for the both of you. It's messy in other words. But that's just for the future. Right now, you are into it/this one so let's see it through. I think you should ask her more about her living situation. Presume what she told you is true (ie lives with dad) and ask about it. It will help if you guys are on a real date then it's normal to talk about this kind of stuff. I can think of a plausible situation of why her ex is listed at the dad's address--lots of times people use parents addresses if they are moving, traveling, in limbo, job things, etc. If they had been married, they might both have been listed at the dad's address at one point. I don't know if her answers willl came your irrational mind but if they are decent, honest answers that meet what you are looking for, they should calm your rational mind. IME, people with irrational thoughts will often take the additional information & now have 20 new tangents they are worried about. it's your brain, look into it. Worrying, protection mechanism that is not helpful in this context. Part of it is your biology and makeup but it doesn't mean that you should continue like this unchecked. b) hmmm, well I don't see why she would lie about the job. You already thought she DIDN'T have one and were interested in dating her. Most jobs are trying to make COVID accommodations regardless of where it would be ideal to work from or shift people into other work at same company. This is also something to ask her more about--totally normal. See you can ask her the things that are worrying you--so you say--and get clarification without asking where things are going. I would imagine her answers to these questions will have you deciding if you are actually interested in continuing with her or not--as it should be--which is a whole other reason to not worrying about anything beyond those crucial answers. It doesn't matter if she will eventually be your girlfriend until YOU know the answers to those two areas of her life. With the Honesty question, I think you need more information. You know woefully little about her in two dates. Basic life facts. Find out more. Hopefully you can tell more---personally I'm not sure that you are in the right headspace about this that more information will calm yours mind. I think it will provide more suspicions. I have no idea if they are founded or unfounded but I do know the way you interact is providing some of the suspicion (ie unfounded). For the casual question. What do you want? Or do you not know yet? If you don't know yet, great--wait until you know more about her. If you want casual, kind of great---it looks like she's definitely up for that--though IMO, always risky if you can't trust the other person. If you want serious, it's too soon to ask (not the norm) and you guys aren't in that place yet. You also would be obligating yourself to someone who you already need to build trust with because you don't have a base level of trust--get to that place first. I also think if you leave the ball in her court, you will know part of the answer as well. Right now for the next date it's not looking good if she hasn't respond. The lack of response alone, to me, shows she is in a place for casual at best. She does seem interested casually. Casual relationships turn into real ones often enough. I don't know if that would be good for you or the right person to do it with--too many elements that worry you & IF they are true, it's kind of messy (all not great for you). Anxious people are looking for the next thing to do. I think you should be patient as an ACTIVE choice. You can mentally write her off if you like because you've done the best to try to arrange the next date & you can be open if you'd like if she pops back up or not. To me, there is very little "work" to do as it pertains to you & her. Lots to work on for a mind shift for you & that's where you should put your effort. Ask the direct questions about her life if you see her again. NOT about you and her but about her. You are qualifying her to be in your life, not the other way around. 1
Author Physx Posted August 26, 2020 Author Posted August 26, 2020 Versacehottie, thanks so much for the thorough response. Lots of food for thought on my end. When I don't know things, it can tend to drive me crazy. It's why I drive myself crazy wondering about the unknowns and try to do research to figure them out. But, you are absolutely right - I need to stop looking deeper into things than I really should at this point. As far as another date, I never actually tried to make one yet. I simply stated that next time, we should do something more than just drinks, like sushi (at a place I had recommended previously) or Dave & Busters (she loves games). That was the text I never got a response to, maybe because I never actually suggested a day or time, but just left it as "next time." It was on Monday, so I might try to call her later this evening to make plans. If we do go on another date though, I'm going to try to throw something casually out there about opening up the communication more, because I can't keep always being the one to reach out first like this all the time. I guess only time will tell if this does end up going anywhere, and just have to enjoy whatever happens in the meantime.
Author Physx Posted August 26, 2020 Author Posted August 26, 2020 Question... When I call her, would it be alright to try to get an idea of where her head is at? Like get her opinion on whether she likes the idea of a dinner date planned out, or if she prefers just casual get togethers like we have done so far? If she just wants casual, I don’t want to push for too much and have her walk away because she feels I want more than she does. Not sure the best way to handle it, as casual with her is better than nothing, but I’ll try for a little more if possible. Just not sure the best way to test those boundaries safely? And our last date ended Sunday morning and the text I sent the next day (mainly because I was pretty sore from all the sex and wanted to make sure she wasn’t too bad). Is tonight too soon to reach out to her?
Versacehottie Posted August 26, 2020 Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Physx said: Versacehottie, thanks so much for the thorough response. Lots of food for thought on my end. When I don't know things, it can tend to drive me crazy. It's why I drive myself crazy wondering about the unknowns and try to do research to figure them out. But, you are absolutely right - I need to stop looking deeper into things than I really should at this point. As far as another date, I never actually tried to make one yet. I simply stated that next time, we should do something more than just drinks, like sushi (at a place I had recommended previously) or Dave & Busters (she loves games). That was the text I never got a response to, maybe because I never actually suggested a day or time, but just left it as "next time." It was on Monday, so I might try to call her later this evening to make plans. If we do go on another date though, I'm going to try to throw something casually out there about opening up the communication more, because I can't keep always being the one to reach out first like this all the time. I guess only time will tell if this does end up going anywhere, and just have to enjoy whatever happens in the meantime. Sure, hope it's helping Ok, hmmm she probably should have responded if she wanted to go. I think people tend to make things "easy' when they want to see you. But let's not make you crazy with that tidbit--take it at face value: it was just a comment you made on your end not a specific invite---so definitely reach out and make it clear. I think reaching out this evening is a good idea. I'm basically advising that you take the best case steps (IMO) without being over the top or presuming what is going on on her end. You put your confident foot forward--ie you reach out to now "set" this date or arrange date/time of it. *to me, you should worry less about the initiating part right now--you are the guy and maybe she is traditional in that respect. Almost EVERY girl i know is at 3 dates in. It's not an indicator of their interest for various guys--we just are conditioned to let guys set the pace & initiate at the beginning. I know it's hard because it potentially is the same as if she is not interested. But most, if not every guy, has to go through this too (not with every girl but many of them). Also to me, if you ask if she would just rather do the casual thing, aka hookup, she will probably presume that is what YOU want. Stop trying to guess or manipulate what you do based on what you think she may or may not want. Try to just ask for what you want. You need to know her better right? And you want to. The hookup dates kind of blur being able to get that information and your intentions. If you've talked about sushi and/or dave & busters, try to make those plans with her. If it's not what she wants, she will try to just have a casual get together at your place. Assuming she says yes to sushi or dave & busters, then there you could ask her what she is looking for. Like if you met her on tinder, let's say, that's kind of a normal question to ask because it could be that she is just looking for casual. if you met her on eharmony (lol) then you should just roll with it like she wants a serious relationship or even on bumble or hinge, i think you should treat it like that & just gather info about her & what it's like to be on a date with her. Another way you can gauge where her head is at without going into YOU AND HER is ask her a LITTLE (not a lot) about her breakup/separation. Those are the answers you need anyway & the more she talks about it the more you will get a sense of what is going on with the rest of her life. IMO if a person is a decent human being, this is when they would drop it in conversation that they are not ready or just looking for casual. The line of questioning begets a look back at where they've come back recently (from a romantic perspective) and their present and where they see the future going. Hopefully you will get a sense that she is OPEN. *a real reason to be wary of a separated or just broken up person is that you should be slightly concerned that they are just looked for an ego boost, revenge or are confused in general. Better to get it from how the act & get good at reading between the lines & read people's actions--those will always tell you much more than the words someone says. People say things to keep up their own facade with themselves, with you & to push off saying the truth or something they don't know the answer to yet--to basically delay answering the real truth so they can have the power of choice. That's just life & almost everyone does it. I think if she is at such crossroads in her life, probably even more so. Lots of upheaval realistically so you can't expect that she will have a good sense of where she is going with life--let alone with you (yet)--which truthfully would be another good reason not to date separated people (sorry!!). Tonight is not too soon at all IMO to reach out. Personally I don't think you want casual & I don't think you should set your sights that low if that's not how you are calibrated. You will find out what she wants by asking for what you want. And then you can take it from there. I don't think you should dial it down to just FWB but cross that bridge if and when you come to it. Good luck 1
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