do I Say Something or Let it Go?

[amerikajin]

14 hours ago, rjc149 said:

At this point, the guy simply asked a closure question. Yes it's not socially graceful and yes, it put the OP in an uncomfortable situation. Yes, he's clearly insecure, needy and desperate. It's what got him dumped in the first place. But he's not harassing her or threatening her. So just like, answer his question. Give him a quick, final epilogue and goodbye. Don't treat him like he's been prowling outside her apartment.

The best compassion is to do things that are going to enable him to be better at interacting with women. Replying to drunk texts with a bunch of feel-good crap that she really doesn't mean just to let him off easily and cushion the blow to his ego isn't going to help him - at all.

What will help him is the same thing that helped me and other formerly clueless guys like me who were in the same position: do some reflection and self-analysis. Get curious and read up on what turns girls on and what turns them off, and then take notes and start copying those behaviors. The great thing about the Internet is that it's still pretty much free and open for everyone if you can just pay the rent, keep the lights on, and pay Verizon or Comcast each month. There's a ton of information out there on how to attract women, and how not to.

I started with Doc Love, and while I now think his advice is someone outdated and simplistic, I still think it helped me understand how things work on some level. I learned about attraction meters or attraction levels. As corny as some of his content might seem, it was actually a very important first step for this clueless guy. And one very important lesson I learned and began to accept is that there are some women out there that are just never going to be into you no matter how good you look, no matter how much money you have, no matter how smooth or funny you are because we're not all equally attractive. It seems obvious, but a lot of guys - especially intellectual and 'smart' guys who are used to manipulating variables in a lab and used to working on projects and coming up with solutions - come to find out the hard way that attraction is something they can't control. It doesn't improve just by spending more time in the office or more time in the library (or on JStor, I guess).

Like the OP's "ex," I used to get rejected a lot and wonder "Why? What am I doing wrong? Women tell me I'm nice, that I'm funny, and even occasionally that I'm 'cute' or 'good looking.' And yet I can't get anything past a second date. What the hell?!" There are even old posts here in which I admittedly lost my proverbial s*** over an apparent rejection, and I look back and realize how utterly ridiculous I was. And frankly, I find that old me kinda creepy now. And yet as bad as I was, I knew that venting here or to a friend was better than giving it back and making a female uncomfortable. That's not cool.

No, the OP has no obligation to say anything. Cut him off like a drunk ordering another beer. It's for his own good, and the OP's.

[rjc149]

7 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I agree rjc.  There is far too much ignoring, ghosting, and dismissing of people in today's dating environment for my liking. 

But I dunno, in this case, months after, a late night, probably drunk text, like I said in previous post, he may regret having sent it, and wants the whole thing to go away. 

Receiving a response may actually make him feel more embarrassed and worse. 

Apologies for the flip flop, I just had a chance to think more about it.

Lol there’s no apology necessary. 

I look at it pretty simply— when someone asks me a question, I answer it. When I ask someone a question, I’d prefer the courtesy of a response. 

In my mind, I equate knee-jerk ignoring and blocking as something akin to the silent treatment. It’s immature avoidance of confrontation. 

[poppyfields]

@amerikajin, I totally get what you're saying, but in rjc's defense I would hardly consider what he suggested saying -- you were too needy and clingy and it turned me off - to be a bunch of  "feel good cr*p."  

I suspect reading something like that would make him feel worse.

What I suggested saying was feel good cr*p but I've changed my mind.

Doc Love?  I've heard of him, not familiar with his stuff.  Does/did he preach similar to Corey Wayne?

Edited August 26, 2020 by poppyfields

[rjc149]

8 minutes ago, amerikajin said:

The best compassion is to do things that are going to enable him to be better at interacting with women. Replying to drunk texts with a bunch of feel-good crap that she really doesn't mean just to let him off easily and cushion the blow to his ego isn't going to help him - at all.

What will help him is the same thing that helped me and other formerly clueless guys like me who were in the same position: do some reflection and self-analysis. Get curious and read up on what turns girls on and what turns them off, and then take notes and start copying those behaviors. The great thing about the Internet is that it's still pretty much free and open for everyone if you can just pay the rent, keep the lights on, and pay Verizon or Comcast each month. There's a ton of information out there on how to attract women, and how not to.

I started with Doc Love, and while I now think his advice is someone outdated and simplistic, I still think it helped me understand how things work on some level. I learned about attraction meters or attraction levels. As corny as some of his content might seem, it was actually a very important first step for this clueless guy. And one very important lesson I learned and began to accept is that there are some women out there that are just never going to be into you no matter how good you look, no matter how much money you have, no matter how smooth or funny you are because we're not all equally attractive. It seems obvious, but a lot of guys - especially intellectual and 'smart' guys who are used to manipulating variables in a lab and used to working on projects and coming up with solutions - come to find out the hard way that attraction is something they can't control. It doesn't improve just by spending more time in the office or more time in the library (or on JStor, I guess).

Like the OP's "ex," I used to get rejected a lot and wonder "Why? What am I doing wrong? Women tell me I'm nice, that I'm funny, and even occasionally that I'm 'cute' or 'good looking.' And yet I can't get anything past a second date. What the hell?!" There are even old posts here in which I admittedly lost my proverbial s*** over an apparent rejection, and I look back and realize how utterly ridiculous I was. And frankly, I find that old me kinda creepy now. And yet as bad as I was, I knew that venting here or to a friend was better than giving it back and making a female uncomfortable. That's not cool.

No, the OP has no obligation to say anything. Cut him off like a drunk ordering another beer. It's for his own good, and the OP's.

The misinterpretation of my advice is now clearly willful. 

Nowhere in any of my posts did the words “owe” “obligation” “need” appear. 

If you’re going to respond to my posts with the intention to be taken seriously, read them more carefully.
 

[amerikajin]

22 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

The misinterpretation of my advice is now clearly willful. 

Nowhere in any of my posts did the words “owe” “obligation” “need” appear. 

If you’re going to respond to my posts with the intention to be taken seriously, read them more carefully.
 

Nah, I think we get what you're saying about showing some empathy, but that's not really pertinent. The facts are that the OP tried to show empathy initially, tried to let him down easy. He wouldn't take the hint. That's the alpha and omega of the discussion.

[rjc149]

36 minutes ago, amerikajin said:

Get curious and read up on what turns girls on and what turns them off, and then take notes and start copying those behaviors.

This is dangerous advice to give around here. "PUA advice! GET HIM!" 

As someone who was once myself in this guy's shoes, I very much appreciated, straight from the horse's mouth, that my weak, subservient, approval-seeking behavior was the direct cause of my ex losing attraction for me and dumping me for a loud, dickhead frat boy who already banged all of her friends. 

It hurt to hear at the time, because I was conditioned that being a sweet, hopeless romantic is what girls really wanted. When in reality, acting like an emotional servant and doormat turns women off. And it's not that women like loud, inconsiderate a**h***s, it's that they like men who are confident, fearless, and sought by other women. 

Took me a while to figure this all out and put everything in place. So from one bro to another, I would like to see this guy be set straight on why he got dumped. Loud and clear. He put her on a pedestal. He was too emotional. He was needy. And he relied on alcohol. He was weak. It got him dumped. 

I'm generally not about giving hints. If something needs to be said, say it. Although my empathy for this guy is a factor, it's more so just not being a passive-aggressive coward "ooh, he didn't take my hint, so I'm just going to pretend he doesn't exist and hope he goes away." That's not my style. 

 

 

[rjc149]

39 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Doc Love?  I've heard of him, not familiar with his stuff.  Does/did he preach similar to Corey Wayne?

Corey Wayne ripped off of Doc Love, to my understanding. It's all the same basic stuff, more focused on teaching men how needy, insecure behavior turns women off and how to behave attractively in order to have, and maintain, long-term relationships. Not so much how to pick college girls up from the bar. 

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Doc Love

I'm sure your guru would not recommend sending pathetic creepy AF messages to someone who broke up with you months ago.

[Allupinnit]

You guys had a few dates, and months later he reaches out with that?

Yeah, he was probably drunk.  I wouldn't reply, it's not like you ghosted him.  Everyone knows that the best thing to do upon being dumped is delete yourself from their social media (WHY torture yourself like that?) take your licks and keep moving.  Rejection is part of the game and wallowing, stalking their IG and reaching out for answers are all counter-productive and just further reinforces their decision to get away from you.

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, amerikajin said:

The facts are that the OP tried to show empathy initially, tried to let him down easy. He wouldn't take the hint. That's the alpha and omega of the discussion.

This 100%. He wouldn't take the hint. And, since emma didn't bother setting limits with him by deleting/blocking him from her Insta, he was able to continue to contact her and then send that message asking her AGAIN to tell him why she rejected him. 

If emma had deleted him from her Insta after she rejected him, she wouldn't have had to deal with him ever again. 

 

[rjc149]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

I'm sure your guru would not recommend sending pathetic creepy AF messages to someone who broke up with you months ago.

He’s not my guru lol. 

But if I’m playing guru, it wouldn’t be my MO to call people pathetic and creepy for having knowledge gaps in how attraction works. I’m just not that desperate to feel superior to others.

[poppyfields]

Well, the OP is long gone, I wonder what she ended up doing?  I vote for she ignored, which was probably for the best.  

I hope she also deleted him from SM, etc.

In any event, what an interesting discussion!  Lots of passionate responses.  

Edited August 26, 2020 by poppyfields

[salparadise]

15 hours ago, poppyfields said:

In any event, what an interesting discussion!  Lots of passionate responses. 

Interesting? Nah. I couldn't disagree more. The only interesting aspect was the true colors of several more soulless, compassionless, hard-asses being revealed, seeing them out themselves, and adding them to my do-not-engage list.

I honestly do not think I'm the outlier as as far as how people are overall, but I obviously was in this thread. I guess have an issue with people who discard other people in general, but in this situation it was a guy she supposedly cared about enough to date... but when a struggling guy who still cares simply needs to be acknowledged in a compassionate way, it became all about her irritation that he didn't cooperate fully with the discard. At least the OP was asking the question, and had apparently tried to be gentle before. Those who quickly jumped in with the ignore and block crowd, well, it says a lot more about them than it does about the former boyfriend. 

I believe that people have intrinsic value and are worthy of compassion whether they're useful to you or not. Apparently that is a minority view on these forums. This is similar to a thread from a year ago about panhandlers, or people who approach and ask for spare change or a couple of bucks. I had never heard so many excuses and presumptions –– don't really need money, on drugs or alcohol, might not spend it on approved items, annoyance, irritation, report to management or police.

Only this time all the guy needed was a kind word, and the majority advised her to twist the knife because he was an irritant and she didn't owe him anything... and because they view a man who has been discarded as not worthy of even one word of kindness. These are not my kind of people. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by salparadise

[Allupinnit]

Well first of all they weren't bf/gf - they only went out a few times.  

And what if she was to be honest and tell him "why" he wasn't right for her?  He had an annoying laugh?  He smelled badly?  His jokes were off-color?   IME that only invited an argument from the rejected party.  It could be simply a feeling you have that you can't put your finger on.  

This isn't about anyone needing a word of kindness nor anything else of that nature (and LOL at the comparison to a beggar on the STREET)- it's not like she cut him off in traffic, she just determined he wasn't right for her as a partner and told him so.  Rejection sucks, we've all been there, but I can't remember a time where my moving on was as a result of reaching out months later to ask the dude WHY.  It doesn't matter why.  How embarrassing.

 

[Wiseman2]

Agree, pages of derailed nonsense because of pot stirring. Of course contacting someone mos after a breakup with drivel like that is creepy. 

[amerikajin]

20 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

You guys had a few dates, and months later he reaches out with that?

Yeah, he was probably drunk.  I wouldn't reply, it's not like you ghosted him.  Everyone knows that the best thing to do upon being dumped is delete yourself from their social media (WHY torture yourself like that?) take your licks and keep moving.  Rejection is part of the game and wallowing, stalking their IG and reaching out for answers are all counter-productive and just further reinforces their decision to get away from you.

Exactly. Rejection *is* part of the process.

"He was just looking for a kind word."

Uh, no, he was looking for attention. He was posting things late at night and probably under the influence of booze that he didn't have the balls to communicate when sober. Anyone with an ounce of common sense in that situation would understand that a woman, in this day and age of stalking and the threat of physical harm to women from jilted lovers or just jilted wannabe lovers, would know that this DM is going to do nothing but make the woman feel uncomfortable.

The OP's friend or ex or whatever is just being selfish and whiny. The best thing that can happen to him is that he starts trying to find ways to make himself more attractive.

Edited August 27, 2020 by amerikajin

[Watercolors]

3 dates with a very casual acquaintance does not a r/s make, salparadise. There was no r/s. And emma had already told him she wasn't interested. The fact that he can't handle that after only 3 dates, says more about him (being an insecure guy that's not emma or any woman's job to renovate or fix up) than it does about emma. 

Insecure, whiney guys are not a woman's job to fix. Period. This guy clearly couldn't get over the rejection. Had emma used common sense and blocked/deleted him after rejecting him, she wouldn't have had to deal with him confronting her on her Insta months after their 3rd date, demanding from emma a better answer than "I'm not interested." Since when does emma -- or anyone -- owe a lengthy explanation to someone they rejected? To cater to the insecure? I think not. If you can't take rejection as part of the dating game, then don't date. Plain and simple. 

[poppyfields]

Watercolors, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, you make good points about them only having three dates, and she had already told him she wasn't interested. 

I also agree that she doesn't "owe" him another explanation or anything else for that matter. 

rjc149 and salparadise also posted she doesnt owe him anything.  

So I'm not quite sure why you continue to bring that into your argument.  Unless you're not reading posts all the way.  

People don't choose to be kind and compassionate because of some obligation to do so or because they "owe" it to the person.  

It's a personal choice that comes from within their hearts.  

As for me, if you've read my recent posts, I've changed my mindset about this.

I believe the guy was probably drunk, and having a weak moment when he texted what he did -- "why wasn't I good enough"?

My guess, and it's just a guess, he woke up totally embarrassed he texted that and wished it never happened. 

And as such, any response from the OP will make him feel more embarrassed and worse.

For that reason, best to ignore imo.

But again, if she or anyone chose to respond, it's not out of a sense of obligation or "owing" the person, it's coming from their hearts, plain and simple.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by poppyfields

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 8/24/2020 at 7:19 AM, emmab219 said:

No, as soon as I realized I wasn't feeling it I let him know. 

My initial response was to be angry he was trying to almost deflect blame on to me, but I think he just has some internal issues going on. 

I don't think this is it at all. In fact it was the opposite, he was asking what *he* did wrong. I see people on here ask if they should ask that, to find out for next time. Usually the advice is...please don't, but personally I wouldn't have been mad at it. Haven't you ever just liked someone so much, and been so hurt when you broke up? Unless you were very young you probably didn't circle back to ask about it but it can hurt and you can think: okay, was it me?

Would you want someone who rejected you to be gentle with your heart? Then be gentle with his. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

36 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Watercolors, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, you make good points about them only having three dates, and she had already told him she wasn't interested. 

I also agree that she doesn't "owe" him another explanation or anything else for that matter. 

rjc149 and salparadise also posted she doesnt owe him anything.  

So I'm not quite sure why you continue to bring that into your argument.  Unless you're not reading posts all the way.  

People don't choose to be kind and compassionate because of some obligation to do so or because they "owe" it to the person.  

It's a personal choice that comes from within their hearts.  

As for me, if you've read my recent posts, I've changed my mindset about this.

I believe the guy was probably drunk, and having a weak moment when he texted what he did -- "why wasn't I good enough"?

My guess, and it's just a guess, he woke up totally embarrassed he texted that and wished it never happened. 

And as such, any response from the OP will make him feel more embarrassed and worse.

For that reason, best to ignore imo.

But again, if she or anyone chose to respond, it's not out of a sense of obligation or "owing" the person, it's coming from their hearts, plain and simple.

 

 

Right? Drunk texts, or just it's late and I'm lonely texts definitely happen.

[salparadise]

11 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Would you want someone who rejected you to be gentle with your heart? Then be gentle with his. 

Thank you @CaliforniaGirl  Common humanity and decency 101. 
 

*sometimes it seems like this place is a wholly owned subsidiary of Fox News.

[Allupinnit]

Oh come on who really wants to hear "you're a nice guy, but..." - that's exactly the response you're going to get back because nobody likes feeling like the a-hole.  Nobody is saying she has to be an a-hole, she already explained herself the first time.  It's overkill and awkward.

[Wiseman2]

It's over when the breakup happens, not months later because of random texts.

[ExpatInItaly]

I have a feeling this was just drunk and having a moment. 

I'm not sure it's as serious as some are making it out to be. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

13 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

Oh come on who really wants to hear "you're a nice guy, but..." - that's exactly the response you're going to get back because nobody likes feeling like the a-hole.  Nobody is saying she has to be an a-hole, she already explained herself the first time.  It's overkill and awkward.

It's awkward. But IMO not over the top. It was a single drunk dial, if he had been sitting in her bushes with binoculars that would be another thing. He's probably just embarrassed about it this morning. If he remembers it.

I personally wouldn't be making this big a deal of it...and if I felt compelled to I'd wonder what my own issue could be. Most people would just say to themselves "drunk dial" and move along. Everybody has been really into someone but been rejected at least once, probably more than that, we all know it doesn't feel great. Now if he shows up in the parking lot at work or something that's another thing. But one drink dial...it's not like that's never happened in the world before.

I'd let it go, and personally I wouldn't even think to be angry about somebody really missing me, unless he was an A-hole or dumped me unceremoniously or something and then called three months later. THAT would be irritating.

Edited August 27, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl