Angel29 Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 I have been friends with a man for 9 months from my course. Recently he got in touch and we met up twice on our own for walks since the course had finished. He initiated the contact for both of these walks. The second time we met we felt like we had known each other all our lives, we spent about 12 hours together. He kept dropping hints as though he could see us in a relationship and said we had some deep conversations. I feel disheartened as since we met he has looked daily on the dating website he is a member of. A friend said I shouldn't have spent that long with him as he has nothing else to look forward to which is why he is back online. Now, I know he is single and can do what he likes but I don't want to play second best to a man who I feel he emotionally unavailable. He even mentioned his ex a few times who hurt him so I think he isn't ready. Should I just stay friends with him but carry on dating others? I know we could have a good relationship but I'm not waiting for someone who doesn't know what he wants and use me as a back up plan.
Versacehottie Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) this is a new guy, right? not the same one that you've been into for such a long time? It's hard to tell because your activity with them is always walking but it does sound like a new one. Good for you if it is. Bad, if it isn't--then the same advice you've been getting for a long while applies. Hmmm assuming he is a NEW guy, don't get so freaked out. If he isn't ready, that is probably EXACTLY why he is looking to test the waters, get his ego back in shape etc. Definitely YOU keep dating others. You aren't second best; he just can't give you what you want right now. He is process of figuring it out what he wants in general. Probably has little to do with you. Here's one thing though that I don't like. I don't know if you were being overly hopeful or if he said it explicitly--but I don't think it's good if he said or indicated that it's been like you two have known each other all of your lives. To me, that is disingenuous--especially if he is not ready & did not follow up with you like he is, ie on a dating site and not making the move to be dating you exclusively. But still don't freak out. It sounds like he is going through the stuff people can do when they are just out of a relationship in that they try to replace those feelings by cozying up to someone new (overly so they can substitute). I don't necessarily think that it was wrong that you spent so much time with him that day---however, now that you know the deal, don't let him have that much availability to you until he is trying to date you. Sure, you can remain friends--do not allow him to talk to you about his ex--you are not a crutch or his therapist. Hold yourself in higher esteem by not wanting to be hearing his problems or drama. You want happiness, fun in your life & a guy--whether it's as a friend or more--who is WHOLE and not a puddle of a mess. He doesn't know what he wants. It's not the end of the world. If there is truth and meaning to what he indicated on that day, he'll be back. You just have to go on living your life. You don't want a guy who ISN'T ready. It's kind of not true that timing is always perfect. Sometimes it isn't but becomes so later. Just knowing you're history: Don't get hung up on him or fantasize about some potential relationship. It's not that yet. It may never be. You just have to meet people where they are at. Don't make him out to be more WHOLE than he is--he sounds kind of broken. lol, put yourself on the same dating website and let him see you there as well Edited August 17, 2020 by Versacehottie
Author Angel29 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Posted August 17, 2020 He is a NEW guy, not the one I have been harping on about for years. 1
d0nnivain Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) You went on 2 walks with the guy. You can't expect him to be off OLD when you were hot & cold about him & posting that wanted "answers" about some alleged ghosting he did to you last spring that he probably gave zero thought to because it was such a non-event. You say he dropped hints. Did you pick them up? Did you express to him that you were open to a date? The hikes aren't dates. Until he actually asks you on a date you should date other people expect that he will remain active on the dating site not get emotionally invested After a few dates & before intimacy then you can broach the subject of where / what are we. Now just chill. Edited August 18, 2020 by d0nnivain 4
ShyViolet Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 After going on two walks with the guy, you can't expect him to quit all dating apps and be exclusive to you. That's not how it works. You two are not in a relationship. If you're interested in him, keep spending time with him, and see where it goes. If you two start an actual relationship, then it would be wrong of him to keep using dating apps. But for now, he is single and can do whatever he wants, and it's not necessarily a bad sign. 3
Versacehottie Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 Use this time as a chance to spread your wings. I think you want to be really careful that you don't fall into the same patterns and traps as before. Part of which were directly attributable to you (ie other walking guy could be an a** or strung you along but you also attached yourself to him for years although he put you squarely in the friend zone). So the key for you is to make sure that you don't fall into this pattern again. I know perhaps you think it's a black and white answer--and it may EVENTUALLY be--but if the dates and the connection were as you said they were, & I'm taking you at your word that they were--then he will probably be back to date you more seriously when he IS ready & frankly you don't want him if he doesn't do that---that is YOUR pattern to break. To not attach to someone who is not giving you only friendship vibes and only friendship & if you want more & potential is there, then ALSO don't hang on wishing to be a girlfriend. This is as much valuable time for him to heal & for YOU to figure out how to be that is a more strong way & more a way to get what you want....and leave a person behind if he can't give it to you. Right now the most important thing for you to do is get that settled in your head, keep dating others, flirt with him when he is around. Don't go out of your way though as you need to treat yourself like you are worth it! You do that by moving on with you life; if a person is not quite ready, you don't waste your own time with him. You are careful with your time and effort because it's worth something. You please yourself. I think if you work on this shift mentally, you should have better luck with guys overall & this one specifically. I think in a way it would be nice if it was a simple, black&white, on-off answer or equation but it's more of a process IMO that will involve grey areas and figuring out how to manage them. This is valuable time for you too. If you do happen into a relationship with this guy (and I totally think that is possible), YOU will need the skills and to be able to not LOSE yourself in their other person or put him on a pedestal. So if you look at it that way, not rushing in is to YOUR advantage as well.
Wiseman2 Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 Seems like a misunderstanding. You thought it was a date and he thought it was just friends hanging out. You are using dating terminology such as "initiating", etc. It's great to have friends but continue dating others.
Versacehottie Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Seems like a misunderstanding. You thought it was a date and he thought it was just friends hanging out. You are using dating terminology such as "initiating", etc. It's great to have friends but continue dating others. Agreed. It's totally possible that this is what is occurring so OP needs to be careful that she is realistic with herself & the situation. As well as be flirty so she is not friend zoned and put her DATING needs first. If she is not dating him, she needs to keep it moving to people she can date. Goodluck 2
smackie9 Posted August 18, 2020 Posted August 18, 2020 IMO follow your gut. He isn't really looking for anything serious... he's just fishing, casual, getting his feet wet. Stay friends? Not a good idea if you are developing feelings for him...so no, don't hang out with him anymore, keep your distance and focus on more available men.
Author Angel29 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Posted August 19, 2020 Thank you for all of your replies. They have been very helpful. I know I have dodged a bullet here as he hasn't replied to my last message but he has been on the dating site. If he is so desperate to rush into a relationship I feel he either has anxious attachment style and doesn't want to 'miss out' or is controlling and narcissistic and because I did not give in straight away he has disappeared. I'm not prepared to let a man pressure me, what is the rush? He has shown his true colours and the mentioning of his dodgy ex was really off putting. After my previous dating experiences with other men I need to be very careful.
Versacehottie Posted August 20, 2020 Posted August 20, 2020 Hmmm, I think he's just not serious about dating right now due to his situation (having recently come out of another serious relationship). Hard to tell if he's a good guy or a bad guy. Guys in this state of mind/situation are flakey often because what they want is the freedom for a while; they feel good when they are going over the top with compliments, momentary closeness etc but they are still getting their footing back. I agree there is no rush for you to do what he wants and fall for his whims. IMO, it could be situational or true character traits. I think it would be better for you to figure out in general how to manage this "middle ground" with guys rather than default to all in/or completely off, like black or white thinking which is reminiscent of putting other guy on a pedestal. People are rarely 100% anything. It would serve you the best in the long run IMO to figure out how manage those uncertain beginning weeks--because those happen with lots of guys or purely because of the situation of getting to know someone and fit into each other's lives which is a PROCESS. Hopefully I'm making sense. You know this particular guy better than we do so if you've determined he's a bad guy then that's ok. BUT tbh, it was a little worrying that you swung from liking him SO much to describing him with all these negative CHARACTER traits just because he can't give you what you want, ie to date you exclusively. To be fair, you haven't spoken to him about it, right? And realistically it's too early to do so because you've only had two dates. I think you need to be cautious from swinging ALL the way over the other way in your position for UNREALISTIC reasons. Let's say you met and had been on ANY date/two dates with another guy from online, if he'd been just out of a long term relationship much like this guy or even realistically if not, he'd be talking to several women and not into committing to one right away. Still probably hoping to get physical with whoever he was on a date with. That's just normal. So you see, you will have to get better at managing these moments as they will come up again likely--hopefully not but let's be realistic. It's just dating. *obviously it's fine if you don't want to see this guy again/don't want to date him. It's good that you are exerting boundaries. I think you just need to do that for the RIGHT reasons in your head so you don't continue to live in some fantasy land.
poppyfields Posted August 20, 2020 Posted August 20, 2020 22 hours ago, Angel29 said: I feel he either has anxious attachment style and doesn't want to 'miss out' or is controlling and narcissistic and because I did not give in straight away he has disappeared. What did you not "give in" straight away? Did he try to have sex with you and you said no? Something's missing. 1
Author Angel29 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Posted August 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Versacehottie said: Hmmm, I think he's just not serious about dating right now due to his situation (having recently come out of another serious relationship). Hard to tell if he's a good guy or a bad guy. Guys in this state of mind/situation are flakey often because what they want is the freedom for a while; they feel good when they are going over the top with compliments, momentary closeness etc but they are still getting their footing back. I agree there is no rush for you to do what he wants and fall for his whims. IMO, it could be situational or true character traits. I think it would be better for you to figure out in general how to manage this "middle ground" with guys rather than default to all in/or completely off, like black or white thinking which is reminiscent of putting other guy on a pedestal. People are rarely 100% anything. It would serve you the best in the long run IMO to figure out how manage those uncertain beginning weeks--because those happen with lots of guys or purely because of the situation of getting to know someone and fit into each other's lives which is a PROCESS. Hopefully I'm making sense. You know this particular guy better than we do so if you've determined he's a bad guy then that's ok. BUT tbh, it was a little worrying that you swung from liking him SO much to describing him with all these negative CHARACTER traits just because he can't give you what you want, ie to date you exclusively. To be fair, you haven't spoken to him about it, right? And realistically it's too early to do so because you've only had two dates. I think you need to be cautious from swinging ALL the way over the other way in your position for UNREALISTIC reasons. Let's say you met and had been on ANY date/two dates with another guy from online, if he'd been just out of a long term relationship much like this guy or even realistically if not, he'd be talking to several women and not into committing to one right away. Still probably hoping to get physical with whoever he was on a date with. That's just normal. So you see, you will have to get better at managing these moments as they will come up again likely--hopefully not but let's be realistic. It's just dating. *obviously it's fine if you don't want to see this guy again/don't want to date him. It's good that you are exerting boundaries. I think you just need to do that for the RIGHT reasons in your head so you don't continue to live in some fantasy land. Deep down I know he is a good guy but he is unreliable. We met on a course and he said he was going to drop out as he couldn't cope with the workload and other commitments and it was only when I spoke to him he realised and was able to finish the course due to the pandemic and having more time at home. At the beginning of the pandemic he was texting me, I text him something very personal and he decided not to reply so I fell out with him. When we made up we spoke about it and he apologised saying he didn't know how to reply to my message. Then during the pandemic we were all part of a homework support group as part of the course, he kept sending joke memes and videos about corona which were quite inappropriate at the height of the pandemic as people were anxious and uncertain. He said people were not responding to him so he left the group. It just seems as though if something is not to his liking he is out of there. Relationships are all about compromise. I don't know him well enough to know if he is a stubborn person but it seems like more evidence is pointing that way. Like blaming his ex for what happened, why did he not admit how naive he was for letting her do the things she did, walking all over him and putting up with it. I totally agree its a process. I know we all have busy lives but he was texting me everyday for weeks and then has stopped. It is like he is bored now after we spent 12 hours together. It was not an agreed date and sometimes friends do hang out for that long. I think I kept overlooking these negative traits of his. I know if I met a guy online after 2 dates I certainly wouldn't stop looking but with this guy I have known him for 8 months. I know he has been anxious with covid, we wore masks in the car with the windows open and kept saying keep distance etc but as he was drunk at the end of the night I think he wanted a goodnight kiss. I really didn't know what to do about the possible kiss situation as I would have kissed him but imagine if he came down with something and then blamed me if he passed it on and his parents and grandmother got ill. I think I will leave him as a friend and keep looking and if he comes back it is a bonus. 1
Author Angel29 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Posted August 20, 2020 2 hours ago, poppyfields said: What did you not "give in" straight away? Did he try to have sex with you and you said no? Something's missing. He kept saying we should keep our distance and wear masks in the car due to covid. Later on he had a few drinks and I think he wanted a goodnight kiss but it never happened. I thought I am not going to push the boundaries with covid going on as he is extremely anxious about catching anything and there was no way I was going to let him blame me if he caught anything and passed it on to his elderly relatives. I don't know how people are dating right now.
Wiseman2 Posted August 20, 2020 Posted August 20, 2020 Honestly? He seems too flaky and like too much work either as a friend and certainly as someone to date. Just tiptoe away and make better friends and date better guys.
Author Angel29 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Posted August 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Honestly? He seems too flaky and like too much work either as a friend and certainly as someone to date. Just tiptoe away and make better friends and date better guys. I completely agree with you. It explains why he has little friends since moving back to the area. Time for me to move on.
Versacehottie Posted August 20, 2020 Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Angel29 said: Deep down I know he is a good guy but he is unreliable. We met on a course and he said he was going to drop out as he couldn't cope with the workload and other commitments and it was only when I spoke to him he realised and was able to finish the course due to the pandemic and having more time at home. At the beginning of the pandemic he was texting me, I text him something very personal and he decided not to reply so I fell out with him. When we made up we spoke about it and he apologised saying he didn't know how to reply to my message. Then during the pandemic we were all part of a homework support group as part of the course, he kept sending joke memes and videos about corona which were quite inappropriate at the height of the pandemic as people were anxious and uncertain. He said people were not responding to him so he left the group. It just seems as though if something is not to his liking he is out of there. Relationships are all about compromise. I don't know him well enough to know if he is a stubborn person but it seems like more evidence is pointing that way. Like blaming his ex for what happened, why did he not admit how naive he was for letting her do the things she did, walking all over him and putting up with it. I totally agree its a process. I know we all have busy lives but he was texting me everyday for weeks and then has stopped. It is like he is bored now after we spent 12 hours together. It was not an agreed date and sometimes friends do hang out for that long. I think I kept overlooking these negative traits of his. I know if I met a guy online after 2 dates I certainly wouldn't stop looking but with this guy I have known him for 8 months. I know he has been anxious with covid, we wore masks in the car with the windows open and kept saying keep distance etc but as he was drunk at the end of the night I think he wanted a goodnight kiss. I really didn't know what to do about the possible kiss situation as I would have kissed him but imagine if he came down with something and then blamed me if he passed it on and his parents and grandmother got ill. I think I will leave him as a friend and keep looking and if he comes back it is a bonus. Ok great! What you wrote here makes me feel much better about your reasoning!! Not saying that in a bossy or condescending way--I genuinely want good things for you since back in the day! I mean, I think it's been a little while, no? He sounds lost and adrift. Those guys can be good in general but not at the current time. Steer clear, as you have decided to do. Hmmm I think girls have to be careful though in how the calculate the time they've known someone vs the number of dates. Why? Because a lot of guys are thinking of it in the most simple terms--"i've only taken her on two dates"! Which as you said, were more like friend hangouts not a real date where he had to ask etc. He might have asked for the friend hangout but to put himself on the line for possible rejection and to also have wrapped his head around formally dating, so granted I would bet he "calculates" the weight of what is between you differently. It doesn't necessarily mean he's less fond of you or that it would go nowhere, just that he is not looking at the time span through the same filter you are & with the same gravity. And yeah I would just say the bored thing and him being online when he has someone who he likes right in front of him speak a lot to his "non-readiness", flighty, unreliable at this point in his life. And backs up how you are deciding to deal with it. Good luck:) 1
Author Angel29 Posted August 22, 2020 Author Posted August 22, 2020 Yesterday he asked if I wanted to go on a group walk with him. He has messaged today saying he is cancelling. I know tomorrow's forecast is possible rain but i just feel he is flakey. He wants to meet the following week but I am just going to keep him as a friend and date others. 2
poppyfields Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Angel29 said: Yesterday he asked if I wanted to go on a group walk with him. He has messaged today saying he is cancelling. I know tomorrow's forecast is possible rain but i just feel he is flakey. Good god, this must be like the fifth story I've heard within the past week about a man flaking on a date, that HE initiated! I'm wondering if people are developing some sort of social anxiety in the outside world due to too much internet. I'm serious, people spending so much time chatting, interacting on the internet, in some cases I've heard about, 24/7. One guy didn't sleep for three days! It's like an addiction and they've become so accustomed to interacting that way, never even bothering to shower and get out of their pj's; they've become lazy and/or completely forgotten how to interact in the outside world. The idea of meeting (dating and relationships) is appealing but then right before the meet or date, they begin feeling anxious, or just get lazy and get back to the internet where it's easy and safe. I'm sorry Angel, yeah keep him as a friend at most, assuming you think he would be a good friend. I wouldn't, but your call on that. Edited August 22, 2020 by poppyfields
ExpatInItaly Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 41 minutes ago, Angel29 said: Yesterday he asked if I wanted to go on a group walk with him. He has messaged today saying he is cancelling. I know tomorrow's forecast is possible rain but i just feel he is flakey. He wants to meet the following week but I am just going to keep him as a friend and date others. This is the Friend Zone. He isn't asking for a date here, just to hang out. I think you would be best to strike him off your list of potential dating candidates. I don't think that's what he's really looking for here.
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