Casual fling- Is it ever worth pursuing?

[babybrowns]

Hello everyone,

Thank you to you again for your replies, sorry I’ve not been on here for a few days. I went to visit this man again recently, which was my 3rd visit to him.

In the days preceding my visit to him, I was suffering from a lot of internal conflict. As to why I was travelling 150 miles for the 3rd time to go and see a guy who said that he just wanted something casual, putting my time and effort into something which was probably just a quick fix for the one receiving it.

I voiced my thoughts and feelings to him a few days before the trip, which unfortunately led to lots of arguing before the trip. In the midst of all this arguing he said that this was not the “drama-free fun” that he was looking for. He got quite mad and even a bit verbally abusive towards me, even saying I was talking a bit like how his ex used to. But he said that he still wanted me to come over and just “forget everything else over a bottle of red wine”, that we could be platonic if I wanted, he likes my company so was still looking forward to it.

My decision was to keep the trip and see what happens. So I went up to see him, and kept a distance, remaining completely platonic as to not get anymore attached than I ought to. I slept in the spare room. He was a little disappointed after the fun we had last time that I wouldn’t even “snuggle with him in bed for just a little bit”, but he respected my wishes.

We hung out as friends, and again he wouldn't spend a single dime on me, not even for a single beer or coffee during my trip. I didn’t complain about this, but naturally found it a bit inconsiderate when I’d come all the way to see him.

Everything together was making me feel quite sad and withdrawn during the trip, he did comment on my quietness once or twice but I didn’t really tell him what was wrong. I didn’t want to feel sad, I wanted to give him a good time like last time but I just couldn’t, knowing for sure this time that all this was nothing but something casual for him.

He also told me something which I found quite upsetting. He said that he was ‘always up for seeing where things would lead with us’, but that after all the arguing the last few days about where we stood and all, it made him feel pressured and that we are not right for each other anymore. I then asked him why he didn’t tell me this before I took the trip, he said he “wouldn’t have minded either way whether I’d cancelled the trip or not, he liked my company so why not”.

In a way I feel that part of this not working out is my fault for raising the ‘where’s this going’ thing with him too soon. I really did not want to do this but I just wanted to know that I wasn’t recurrently travelling 150 miles for something that was a no-go from the outset. It was all going really well before I raised my concerns and then all the back and forth arguing for 3 days about where this was heading ruined it  I also wonder if choosing to go 100% platonic this time contributed to the awkwardness between us/ less fun for him.

He texted me after my trip though to say he really enjoyed my company and that I’m welcome to stay in his house whenever I’m in his neck of the woods again. 

Even though part of me wants to cut him off, part of me does want to try again in a few weeks/months time to see if anything can happen. If it was the premature arguing about the ‘what are we’ that was the major dealbreaker for him, surely all can’t be lost?  

Edited August 22, 2020 by babybrowns

[ExpatInItaly]

You are wasting your time with this guy. 

He’s been clear that this is casual and his behaviour supports that. You’re getting too attached and you’re trying to turn it into something he doesn’t want. You wanted platonic, and that’s exactly what you got on your last trip there. You are seeing it doesn’t work for you. 

Stop stringing yourself along. Stop blaming yourself for this having gone south just because you asked what he wanted. You say you  didn’t want to travel there repeatedly if he wasn’t looking for the same things. Well, he told you what he wanted (casual) and you still chose to travel to him. Why? Were you hoping he’d change his mind? 

Just let this one go. It’s too complicated already and you’ve only  been there 3 times. Arguing for three days? He’s right, that is way too much drama for two people who barely know each other. The conflict is arising because you are ignoring your logic and you’re trying to steer this in a direction he doesn’t want to go. Believe him when he says he doesn’t want more. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[elaine567]

You can't bulldoze or blackmail this guy into having a relationship with you.
He wants some nice casual fun, he doesn't want a gf or by the sounds of things any hassle at all in his life.
You went there thinking you could persuade him to change his mind but why would he?
You tried to blackmail him by acting platonic. You thought he wouldn't be able to resist you, but you were wrong.
You want him but he doesn't want you in the way you want him to want you.
Stop chasing lost causes.

 

[kismetkismet]

Some people are good at casual 'relationships' and some people aren't. Since you can already feel yourself getting attached, you're just setting yourself up for heartbreak when this guy inevitably reminds you, "I said I wanted to keep things casual, remember?" This guy has made it very clear he wants something casual. It's especially telling that after you responded positively to his invitation he made sure to temper it with "just make sure I'm free!" Obviously you're going to make sure he's free... he's just making a point to set up boundaries. 

It's fine if you do decide to keep seeing him, but remember that if a guy tells you he doesn't want a relationship - believe him. Don't go into this thinking you can change his mind. 

Also, his line about how he was considering a relationship until you told him that you weren't sure about being casual - is nonsense. He's just saying that so that you won't try to express your needs later on down the line. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by kismetkismet

[Wiseman2]

It's simply too messy and conflicted. Why drive this distance to stay in a spare room? You're not looking for friends. Date locally and date guys who are on the same page relationship-wise.

[babybrowns]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

You can't bulldoze or blackmail this guy into having a relationship with you.
He wants some nice casual fun, he doesn't want a gf or by the sounds of things any hassle at all in his life.
You went there thinking you could persuade him to change his mind but why would he?
You tried to blackmail him by acting platonic. You thought he wouldn't be able to resist you, but you were wrong.
You want him but he doesn't want you in the way you want him to want you.
Stop chasing lost causes.

 

That might be how some people in your experience work, but not me. I was playing no games by keeping it platonic, but was rather preserving my dignity and self respect, while seeing if we could have fun outside the bedroom which would bond us even better. Last time we had fun inside and outside the bedroom. This time he wasn’t interested in doing much with me at all. I was hoping we could make some more music together, he wasn’t interested. I was hoping we would play some more video games like what he introduced me to last time, he wasn’t interested. If I’d known things would be like this, I would have opted to stay in a hotel. 

Interestingly, I was in a very similar situation to my (much farther) long distance ex who started off saying he does not want a relationship. We kept meeting up but rather than platonically, we were meeting up and being intimate. This in combination with the friendship and fun activities we would do together, is what brought him round and led to a lovely 3-year relationship.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have kept it all platonic with this guy this weekend, it might have helped restore some of the positive feelings he lost before my trip with all the drama. But at the same time, I couldn’t risk getting too attached to this guy so I had to keep it at arm’s length, and rather than stay the whole weekend I came back a day early- it would be just too emotionally taxing when I want more and he doesn’t. It’s a Catch-22  

Edited August 22, 2020 by babybrowns

[babybrowns]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You say you  didn’t want to travel there repeatedly if he wasn’t looking for the same things. Well, he told you what he wanted (casual) and you still chose to travel to him. Why? Were you hoping he’d change his mind? 

Thank you for this post, it’s very helpful like your others on here. The thing is that, at the beginning he had never said ‘definitely casual’, but rather ‘most probably casual’ since he’s got lots of things on right now.

Nevertheless I did want some more clarity before I went up again this time which is why I did want to check with him again exactly what this is. I regret it, I never tend to ask guys the big question  this early. It pushed him far away, and led to me going on the trip with a hurt mind before it even began. I don’t know how to undo it and I really wish I could. It has made me really upset, especially when he blamed me for diminishing his interest in pursuing anything further.

But at the same time, I am glad I did have this talk with him because I got the feeling he is sleeping with other women too; he didn’t challenge my notions when I said I couldn’t sleep with a man who was sleeping with others, he just replied “I don’t really do exclusivity so early”. I would definitely not feel comfortable sleeping with a man who was sleeping with others at the same time and I’m glad I didn’t give my body to him this time. But I am hoping we can somehow try again soon when the dust has settled a bit on all the drama of late.

Edited August 22, 2020 by babybrowns

[Mystery4u]

You are wasting your time with him.

His words, his actions, all show one thing - he has no interest whatsoever in anything serious or long term with you.

[ExpatInItaly]

19 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

But at the same time, I am glad I did have this talk with him because I got the feeling he is sleeping with other women too; he didn’t challenge my notions when I said I couldn’t sleep with a man who was sleeping with others, he just replied “I don’t really do exclusivity so early”. I would definitely not feel comfortable sleeping with a man who was sleeping with others at the same time and I’m glad I didn’t give my body to him this time. But I am hoping we can somehow try again soon when the dust has settled a bit on all the drama of late.

Your assumption is correct. He's either having sex with other women, or at the very least, he's open to it. He's not planning on being sexually exclusive with you. 

The problem here is that you went there this time with a mind toward bonding, but you're trying to bond with the wrong guy. He's not really interested in bonding. He's up for fun, but both outside and inside the bedroom. I think the arguing beforehand definitely put him off, but I don't believe the outcome would have been much different had you two not argued. You might have had a better time in the moment, yes, but he told even before the arguing he's not looking for a relationship. He probably hoped you'd give in and have sex anyway when you came, but when he realized you weren't going to, he wasn't really interested. 

Is there a particular reason you want this specific man to come around and date you? What is it about him you find so enticing that you'd keep trying? You're likely going to wind up even more hurt if you keep trying to change his mind. He's fine to just let this fizzle out. The interest level just isn't there, babybrowns. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[babybrowns]

10 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Your assumption is correct. He's either having sex with other women, or at the very least, he's open to it. He's not planning on being sexually exclusive with you. 

The problem here is that you went there this time with a mind toward bonding, but you're trying to bond with the wrong guy. He's not really interested in bonding. He's up for fun, but both outside and inside the bedroom. I think the arguing beforehand definitely put him off, but I don't believe the outcome would have been much different had you two not argued. You might have had a better time in the moment, yes, but he told even before the arguing he's not looking for a relationship. He probably hoped you'd give in and have sex anyway when you came, but when he realized you weren't going to, he wasn't really interested. 

Is there a particular reason you want this specific man to come around and date you? What is it about him you find so enticing that you'd keep trying? You're likely going to wind up even more hurt if you keep trying to change his mind. He's fine to just let this fizzle out. The interest level just isn't there, babybrowns. 

Thank you this does make sense, but what I can’t get around is how different things were last time. He was very interested in doing fun activities with me outside the bedroom last time since we have a lot of similar interests, this suggested to me that he wasn’t in it just for the sex. He was interested in bonding and introducing me to so many of his personal interests, kept asking me to stay longer the morning after to enjoy more of them.

But since we hung out just twice before all this arguing, as he phrased it “heavy sincere conversation”, combined with my pronounced distance and quietness/withdrawal during my trip this time, something I couldn’t help since I was hurt and had my guard right up. This had an impact on this 3rd time that we met in person.

Yes he seemed to expect that I wouldn’t be distanced and platonic. He wasn’t interested in doing anything at all with me, it is sad since this is why I accepted the invitation to stay in his house rather than a hotel. Yes the lack of sex did seem to have a significant impact on his interest levels and he was extremely dismissive the morning after, seeming not fussed about my early departure at all whereas he expressed some hurt about it the night before.

It really was a shame since we had so much fun the last time- the difference was like day and night. Perhaps I just should have crossed that platonic line after all?? 
I am thinking to give it a gap of a few weeks/months and then if we are both still single, ask him if he’d like to hang out again, do a mountain trek like we did the last time which is a big activity we both like.

I’d like to have it proven that if we were to hang out again, having not argued all week this time, some of that spark which drew him to me in the first place which he often spoke of- how he can connect with me in a way he’s not able to do often on dates with other girls, can show itself again. This time the connection was obscured and wasn’t there since I shut down completely in his company and was very quiet.

In all honesty, most of our conversation in all the 3 times we have hung out so far has been 95% me listening to him talk about himself, and him only asking one or two things about me. Whenever I offer information about myself, his eyes gloss over and he asks no follow up questions, this was particularly the case  this last time. It all made it rather dull for me. It seems that he just wants a girl there with him for his own entertainment and own needs, he wouldn’t even pay for a coffee for me, which is nothing new.

But as I said, given the good memory of the last time I am up for trying another meet-up, it is good that he still said he “genuinely enjoyed my company” this time too and is up for me coming again. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by babybrowns

[ExpatInItaly]

14 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

In all honesty, most of our conversation in all the 3 times we have met so far has been 95% me listening to him talk about himself, and him only asking one or two things about me. Whenever I offer information about myself, his eyes gloss over and he asks no follow up questions, this was particularly the case  this last time. It seems that he just wants a girl there with him for his own entertainment and own needs.

Now you’re getting it. 

He is up for good times if you’re offering it (as it seems to be you making most of the effort here), but he’s not that interested in you as a person. That’s why it’s not a positive sign that he told he he’s up for you visiting again - of course he is, because it requires essentially no work on his part. Notice how he’s not offering to come to you or meet you halfway somewhere? 

You need to learn to recognize a dead-end when you see it, and it sounds like you’re starting to see it. 

[elaine567]

10 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Interestingly, I was in a very similar situation to my (much farther) long distance ex who started off saying he does not want a relationship. We kept meeting up but rather than platonically, we were meeting up and being intimate. This in combination with the friendship and fun activities we would do together, is what brought him round and led to a lovely 3-year relationship.

Your experience tells you that if you hang in there then this guy will change his mind and want a relationship, but this guy is not your ex.

7 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

 He wasn’t interested in doing anything at all with me, yes the lack of sex did seem to have a significant impact on his interest levels and he was extremely dismissive the morning after, seeming not fussed about my early departure at all whereas he expressed some hurt about it the night before.

He is all about sex and with no hope of sex he shut it all off, he didn't need to be nice to you any more. Those fun times were when he was getting sex, no sex no fun.
He has made it very clear he does not want a proper relationship with you, he is likely seeing other women and his actions say he is not really interested in you.
Yes he has extended another invite but I guess he doesn't really want to spend any more time arguing or sleeping separately with you when he can have better fun with someone else.
If you want to be one of the girls in his harem then continue on and give him the sex he wants but it still may not guarantee a good fun time for you.
Too much water may have already flowed under that bridge.

[Wiseman2]

Date local men who have the same concept of a relationship. Why are you traveling to him for nonsense like this? 

[babybrowns]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

He is all about sex and with no hope of sex he shut it all off, he didn't need to be nice to you any more. Those fun times were when he was getting sex, no sex no fun.

This seems to be spot on. There was a very pronounced change in his attitude towards me the morning after we slept separately. 

The evening that I came and we met, he was nice but not that nice- when he took me to his favourite bar and we each got a beer, he didn’t even pay  for mine. (We went out to eat before that and split 50:50 as usual). It all added to my wanting to keep some distance. He made no attempt to make me feel more comfortable, having chosen to still come all that way despite the things he’d said to me before the trip where he had been very abusive, calling me names and never giving me a genuine apology for any of it. He did however keep saying to me that evening after I came, how he had been keeping the whole of the next day free for me, and what a shame it was that I would be leaving early the next morning.

After sleeping on it, I did feel bad that I would be leaving so early when he had been keeping the day free. So the morning after I told him I could stay longer and suggested fun things for us to do, like making music or doing another nice little hike with it being a nice day, he just wasn’t  interested and said if I had to leave early he “really didn’t have a problem with it”. His attitude had done a complete 180 and he even spent some of that morning berating me, saying he was hoping I would at least come in to his room for just a snuggle at some point last night. That we are “not right for each other”. That people “should spend 2 months sleeping together first before thinking about exclusivity and all that”.

Why he did say he wants me to stay again, having seen I don’t do sex without a commitment, I really have no clue.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by babybrowns

[Wiseman2]

Why won't he visit you? You know it's NSA sex he wants so why hop in the car driving to him and then play games to pretend you can turn it into more. You already know he's a dick if he gets nasty about having sex on demand. Stop acting like an outcall escort and you won't get treated like one.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Wiseman2

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

Why he did say he wants me to stay again, having seen I don’t do sex without a commitment, I really have no clue.

He thinks he can persuade you, or he thinks next time you will be more open to sex, because you care and you want to please him

[ExpatInItaly]

26 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

The evening that I came and we met, he was nice but not that nice- when he took me to his favourite bar and we each got a beer, he didn’t even pay  for mine. (We went out to eat before that and split 50:50 as usual). It all added to my wanting to keep some distance. He made no attempt to make me feel more comfortable, having chosen to still come all that way despite the things he’d said to me before the trip where he had been very abusive, calling me names and never giving me a genuine apology for any of it. 

What the heck were you thinking even going to see him again after all of this? 

Being abusive and calling you names? You should never have spoken to this guy again, much less made another trip trying to change his mind about not wanting to date you. He went on to berate you the next morning, and you're still here taking it as "positive" sign that he said he'd be up for you visiting again and hoping you can try again with this tw*t in a couple months. 

I'm sorry Baby, but this is arse-backwards. Where is your self-esteem, girl? 

Edited August 23, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[assertives]

21 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

He thinks he can persuade you, or he thinks next time you will be more open to sex, because you care and you want to please him

This ^^^. He thinks he can change your mind about NSA sex just like you think you can change his mind about wanting something serious with you.

[Velvet teddy]

49 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

This seems to be spot on. There was a very pronounced change in his attitude towards me the morning after we slept separately. 

The evening that I came and we met, he was nice but not that nice- when he took me to his favourite bar and we each got a beer, he didn’t even pay  for mine. (We went out to eat before that and split 50:50 as usual). It all added to my wanting to keep some distance. He made no attempt to make me feel more comfortable, having chosen to still come all that way despite the things he’d said to me before the trip where he had been very abusive, calling me names and never giving me a genuine apology for any of it. He did however keep saying to me that evening after I came, how he had been keeping the whole of the next day free for me, and what a shame it was that I would be leaving early the next morning.

After sleeping on it, I did feel bad that I would be leaving so early when he had been keeping the day free. So the morning after I told him I could stay longer and suggested fun things for us to do, like making music or doing another nice little hike with it being a nice day, he just wasn’t  interested and said if I had to leave early he “really didn’t have a problem with it”. His attitude had done a complete 180 and he even spent some of that morning berating me, saying he was hoping I would at least come in to his room for just a snuggle at some point last night. That we are “not right for each other”. That people “should spend 2 months sleeping together first before thinking about exclusivity and all that”.

Why he did say he wants me to stay again, having seen I don’t do sex without a commitment, I really have no clue.

 

 

You travelled 150 miles for a guy who clearly stated he doesn't want anything serious with you. When you finally got there, he doesn't even offer to pay for your drinks or make you feel at ease.

Yet you want to make that same trip all over again?

Im sorry but thats crazy. 

Can't you find anyone else? Why are you clinging on to this guy. 

Because from where im standing he sounds like  a very average man or under average. Depends what way you look at it.

He asked you to stay again, because you're basically handing yourself on a plate to him without him having to lift a finger. And even after all that painstaking effort, he still doesn't want you. 

Move on. Dont pursue this a moment longer. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Velvet teddy

[Mystery4u]

6 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Thank you this does make sense, but what I can’t get around is how different things were last time. He was very interested in doing fun activities with me outside the bedroom last time since we have a lot of similar interests, this suggested to me that he wasn’t in it just for the sex. He was interested in bonding and introducing me to so many of his personal interests, kept asking me to stay longer the morning after to enjoy more of them.

Life lesson: Us men will say/do whatever we think will get a woman closer to us, with the aim of having sex with her.

[introverted1]

 

17 hours ago, babybrowns said:

The thing is that, at the beginning he had never said ‘definitely casual’, but rather ‘most probably casual’ since he’s got lots of things on right now.

It doesn't matter for this particular case, since you've figured it out, but for the future, be aware that the two quotes above are essentially the same.  The latter is just a softer version of the former.

[babybrowns]

3 hours ago, Mystery4u said:

Life lesson: Us men will say/do whatever we think will get a woman closer to us, with the aim of having sex with her.

Sure. But then why would a man express such keenness at a woman staying over the morning after/ day after once this was done, to do fun stuff ‘outside’ the bedroom together? 

2 hours ago, introverted1 said:

 

It doesn't matter for this particular case, since you've figured it out, but for the future, be aware that the two quotes above are essentially the same.  The latter is just a softer version of the former.

His exact words beforehand were, ‘not sure what he’s looking for but most probably casual given how busy he’ll be the next 4 months, however open to the possibility of something nice’. It did feel like we were getting closer before all this arguing started. And he placed the blame squarely on me for starting all the drama and said “after that it would definitely be casual only”. It is this part that is still the confusing thing- was that all that put him off? Those 3 days of arguing/ me stressing about where we stand and whether I should come up after all? And if so, can it not go back to the fun and positivity we had before once the dust has settled on what has ensued these last few days. I really did enjoy all that last time, we have so many interests in common.

Edited August 23, 2020 by babybrowns

[Velvet teddy]

7 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

Sure. But then why would a man express such keenness at a woman staying over the morning after/ day after once this was done, to do fun stuff ‘outside’ the bedroom together? 

His exact words beforehand were, ‘not sure what he’s looking for but most probably casual given how busy he’ll be the next 4 months, however open to the possibility of something nice’. It did feel like we were getting closer before all this arguing started. And he placed the blame squarely on me for starting all the drama and said “after that it would definitely be casual only”. It is this part that is still the confusing thing- was that all that put him off? Those 3 days of arguing/ me stressing about where we stand and whether I should come up after all? And if so, can it not go back to the fun and positivity we had before. I really did enjoy all that last time, we have so many interests in common.

He's making up excuses every time and always brings it back to "casual only".

Do his reasons really matter. 

Even if he was thinking it could go somewhere ( which i highly doubt given his actions). Hes not treating you as anyone significant in his life. And seems narcissistic, putting all the blame onto you. 

You're the one doing all the work! You're paying when you both go out, youre travelling to see him. 

Trust me it's not worth the trouble.

But it looks to me like no matter what anyone says, you will still go there

Edited August 23, 2020 by Velvet teddy

[introverted1]

1 minute ago, babybrowns said:

Sure. But then why would a man express such keenness at a woman staying over the morning after/ day after once this was done, to do fun stuff ‘outside’ the bedroom together? 

His exact words beforehand were, ‘not sure what he’s looking for but most probably casual given how busy he’ll be the next 4 months, however open to the possibility of something nice’. It did feel like we were getting closer before all this arguing started. And he placed the blame squarely on me for starting all the drama and said “after that it would definitely be casual only”. It is this part that is still the confusing thing- was that all that put him off? Those 3 days of arguing/ me stressing about where we stand and whether I should come up after all? And if so, can it not go back to the fun and positivity we had before once the dust has settled on what has ensued these last few days. I really did enjoy all that last time, we have so many interests in common.

He wanted something casual, with NSA sex. He said as much and only mentioned the "possibility" of "something nice" to buffer his position.  Yes, it's possible your 3-day argument turned him off but, more likely, he saw this as an opportunity to further entrench his position of only wanting something casual, but this time, he could shift the responsibility onto you. With luck, you'd have been eager to redeem yourself by sleeping with him.

What I don't understand is why you would spend the weekend with a man whose goals don't synch up with yours, who is sleeping with other women, and with whom you spent 3 days arguing about your lack of compatibility. 

[smackie9]

He wants this, you want that....go find that with someone else.