What the hell am I doing wrong?

[cac1990]

I know this is a hard question to solve over the internet, but here it goes...

So I've (M 27) basically had zero luck with dating ever, and the small luck I do have has gone on to blow up every time. I've been in just three serious relationships in my life, all within the last nine years. All three of those, I've been cheated on, and two of those times it was with really close friends of mine. Was sort of in a fourth relationship recently - we were only "official" for about two weeks before she cut me off out of the blue and (again) got together with a close friend, who has also since cut me off. Most of my endeavors to try and find a significant other always fall short - I usually either end up in a friend zone or they just drop and/or ghost me, typically the latter.

After all three times I was cheated on, I've done what most of these types of forums seem to suggest: Focus on yourself. I'm down more than 100 lbs on the scale from where I was nine years ago, I've worked hard in my professional life and shot up the ranks of my career field. I've been seeing a therapist for the last five years pretty consistently. I've really put myself out there, organizing various social gatherings, inviting people out, etc. I feel like I'm thought of fairly well by my peers (at least that's what they tell me), but even with all of this, I keep striking out and striking out hard in relationships.

Naturally, I'm pretty introverted. Making friends has been a challenge for me as long as I can remember, usually it takes months to a year or more for me to make a friend, and as you can infer from above, they're clearly not in it for the long haul lol. I think that might be part of what's making this worse for me - I don't really have anyone right now besides my therapist I can confide in. Most people I know only include me if I'm the one doing the planning - i.e. I get praised all the time for how good my work is, etc. but if everyone is going out for drinks Friday and I wasn't the one who planned it, then no one reaches out to me about anything, and I just see all their photos go by on social media later when I'm at home by myself.

Long story short, I've been fighting this battle for almost a decade and seem to be doing all the "right things," but people react to the overweight, not-very-confident, minimum-wage job me the same way they react to the healthy, confident, good career me: with mostly complete indifference or in the case of relationships, cheating on me with the few people who aren't indifferent to me, who then become indifferent to me. After this most recent relationship collapse, I feel extremely, extremely depressed and lonely, and I feel like I'm running out of options.

Feel free to ask any questions for clarity and I'll do my best to respond.

Thanks.

[Ami1uwant]

How did you meet these women?

 

cheating is the result of other problems in a relationship.

[Maldives]

Mate they r not or never were friends if they cheat with your woman and those woman r not worth your sweat n tears. I've had that happen a friend do the same.. I'd never ever have anything to do wth him. 

You need to value yourself and love yourself more and not accept that kind of friendship and woman into ur life. Your low self esteem is causing you to seek out the wrong people and accept any type of connection regardless. I don't think any amount of working on yourself is gona do that it's a shift in your mental state when you finally reach a point where you had enough things will shift because you will have boundaries in place that are good for u and u won't tolerate or accept such crap from people. I feel for u nobody deserves that kind of treatment and am truly sorry to hear your experiences and treatment. It'll come when youve had enough...goodluck

[schlumpy]

We have a forum member who goes by the handle of Enigma32. You should read his posts about his efforts to secure a relationship from a women that lives in the Philippines. That could be one option you could pursue. 

What are you expecting out of a girlfriend? Is it all about looks or is it about that surprising connection when you first interact?

There are hundreds of posts on this forum if not thousands written by women who wish they had guy just like you instead of the cheating scumbag they married or are going with. They pretty much have the same complaint the you do. The SO they are with has no interest in them.

The question is how do you find them? Do you frequent bars or shopping malls or lonely hearts clubs? Is it sensible to rely on honesty and integrity of people you meet on "dating" sites? Should you use the church as dating club? 

Since nothing you are doing now is working how about trying out the old but true model of courtship. You meet someone or are introduced through friends or family. You focus on her. You visibly demonstrate that you want a future together. After a year or year and half you ask her to marry you.

The success is just as high as with any other method.

 

[Wiseman2]

Ask your therapist to address residual self esteem issues. See a doctor to evaluate your physical health and moods.

[snowboy91]

Getting cheated on that many times is some really rotten luck. Sorry to hear.

3 serious relationships over 9 years isn't too bad a strike rate. Personality wise, is there anything in common between the women you've ended up in serious relationships with?

[Velvet teddy]

11 hours ago, cac1990 said:

I know this is a hard question to solve over the internet, but here it goes...

So I've (M 27) basically had zero luck with dating ever, and the small luck I do have has gone on to blow up every time. I've been in just three serious relationships in my life, all within the last nine years. All three of those, I've been cheated on, and two of those times it was with really close friends of mine. Was sort of in a fourth relationship recently - we were only "official" for about two weeks before she cut me off out of the blue and (again) got together with a close friend, who has also since cut me off. Most of my endeavors to try and find a significant other always fall short - I usually either end up in a friend zone or they just drop and/or ghost me, typically the latter.

After all three times I was cheated on, I've done what most of these types of forums seem to suggest: Focus on yourself. I'm down more than 100 lbs on the scale from where I was nine years ago, I've worked hard in my professional life and shot up the ranks of my career field. I've been seeing a therapist for the last five years pretty consistently. I've really put myself out there, organizing various social gatherings, inviting people out, etc. I feel like I'm thought of fairly well by my peers (at least that's what they tell me), but even with all of this, I keep striking out and striking out hard in relationships.

Naturally, I'm pretty introverted. Making friends has been a challenge for me as long as I can remember, usually it takes months to a year or more for me to make a friend, and as you can infer from above, they're clearly not in it for the long haul lol. I think that might be part of what's making this worse for me - I don't really have anyone right now besides my therapist I can confide in. Most people I know only include me if I'm the one doing the planning - i.e. I get praised all the time for how good my work is, etc. but if everyone is going out for drinks Friday and I wasn't the one who planned it, then no one reaches out to me about anything, and I just see all their photos go by on social media later when I'm at home by myself.

Long story short, I've been fighting this battle for almost a decade and seem to be doing all the "right things," but people react to the overweight, not-very-confident, minimum-wage job me the same way they react to the healthy, confident, good career me: with mostly complete indifference or in the case of relationships, cheating on me with the few people who aren't indifferent to me, who then become indifferent to me. After this most recent relationship collapse, I feel extremely, extremely depressed and lonely, and I feel like I'm running out of options.

Feel free to ask any questions for clarity and I'll do my best to respond.

Thanks.

I think you're choosing the wrong people.

There are women who won't cheat and have morals, there are men who won't  treat their friends this way. 

There are good people out there, its just a case of finding  them.

If you're introverted, so what? Embrace who you are, it doesnt matter if you aren't invited to social gatherings after work. Im sure you're  not missing out much anyway.

At 27 you've still got time, its not the end of the world. 

[chillii]

Well for a start , l dunno what you call serious relationships but a serious relationship is a serious relationship and 3 in 9yrs at your age is more than enough. What would you rather 20 , 3 is enough to do anyone's head in.

Edited August 10, 2020 by chillii

[smackie9]

Just curious, were any of these women fresh out of a relationship, had talked about being in bad relationships?

[lurker74]

Hard to answer this on the interwebs, but I would guess you have serious confidence issues, and this doesn't make it better. Bottom line is that the number one thing that women are attracted to at your age (and many other ages as well) is confidence. Ironically, when someone has a nice job, is healthy, has parties, and whatnot, he tends to also be confident. In your case, the actions are preceding the feeling of confidence so even when you get the girl, she quickly learns that you are still (using your words, paraphrased) the overweight shy guy with a dead end job, at least on the inside.

There are two ways to address this, and the good news is that they are not mutually exclusive. First, you can wait for your confidence to fill in by continuing on your path and recognizing that you do not NEED a woman (wanting is fine, but needing is desperate). In the meantime, work heavily on the notion that love is not someone feeding you happiness but instead is someone with which to share happiness. And in some period of time, you will be more confident, thereby able to get more girlfriends and command more loyalty.

The second way is to fake it till you make it. Ignore the PUA sites but understand that being too solicitous, too "beta" will cause women (and guy friends) to not want to be around you. Those that do will have a natural tendency to want to use you. So pretend you are not. Do things like, pursue but don't chase. Laugh off women who say no (politely). When a woman says yes, choose the TIME and PLACE rather than ask what she wants. Drink bourbon (mostly a joke). In other words, act LIKE someone that doesn't need a woman until one day you don't. And then when you don't, you'll be surprised when suddenly you have the pick of the litter.

None of this is your "fault." You've done nothing wrong and most things right. Just hang in there and work on yourself a bit more until you magically turn the corner.

[curlygirl40]

I feel like maybe instead of focusing on women right now you should focus on finding a friend circle.       That will increase your circle of women you could potentially meet by going out with them and makes you more attractive to women, that you have good friends.    

That was always a plus for me when I met men, that they had a lot of guy friends.       So maybe start there and boost your confidence around people in general.  

Why do you think your co-workers don't invite you to go with them to their outings?   I find this a bit odd.  Do they know you want to go?   

I'm not sure how to start meeting people, as far as a friend group.    Covid makes it tougher.   Sports?   Pick up golfing or tennis or something else that requires a team atmosphere.  Dart league, pool league at a local bar?   Cooking classes?   Is meetup.com still a thing?    Find like minded people to do things with and try to find some friends. 

I think this will get you out more and increase your confidence and your likeability factor.    

As far as the women, I have to think you were just meeting the wrong type of woman, to have 3 of them cheat on you?  Man that's tough.  But I'm betting that's not 'what's wrong with me?' it's more 'what's wrong with them?' and maybe you just didn't see it.  And the fact that they cheated with 'friends' makes me think your friend picker is off as well.     As my dad would say 'With friends like that, who needs enemies?'.   

I have 2 grown boys who are very introverted, I see the struggle.   Best of luck 

Edited August 11, 2020 by curlygirl40
typo

[Versacehottie]

On 8/9/2020 at 5:25 PM, cac1990 said:

I know this is a hard question to solve over the internet, but here it goes...

So I've (M 27) basically had zero luck with dating ever, and the small luck I do have has gone on to blow up every time. I've been in just three serious relationships in my life, all within the last nine years. All three of those, I've been cheated on, and two of those times it was with really close friends of mine. Was sort of in a fourth relationship recently - we were only "official" for about two weeks before she cut me off out of the blue and (again) got together with a close friend, who has also since cut me off. Most of my endeavors to try and find a significant other always fall short - I usually either end up in a friend zone or they just drop and/or ghost me, typically the latter.

After all three times I was cheated on, I've done what most of these types of forums seem to suggest: Focus on yourself. I'm down more than 100 lbs on the scale from where I was nine years ago, I've worked hard in my professional life and shot up the ranks of my career field. I've been seeing a therapist for the last five years pretty consistently. I've really put myself out there, organizing various social gatherings, inviting people out, etc. I feel like I'm thought of fairly well by my peers (at least that's what they tell me), but even with all of this, I keep striking out and striking out hard in relationships.

Naturally, I'm pretty introverted. Making friends has been a challenge for me as long as I can remember, usually it takes months to a year or more for me to make a friend, and as you can infer from above, they're clearly not in it for the long haul lol. I think that might be part of what's making this worse for me - I don't really have anyone right now besides my therapist I can confide in. Most people I know only include me if I'm the one doing the planning - i.e. I get praised all the time for how good my work is, etc. but if everyone is going out for drinks Friday and I wasn't the one who planned it, then no one reaches out to me about anything, and I just see all their photos go by on social media later when I'm at home by myself.

Long story short, I've been fighting this battle for almost a decade and seem to be doing all the "right things," but people react to the overweight, not-very-confident, minimum-wage job me the same way they react to the healthy, confident, good career me: with mostly complete indifference or in the case of relationships, cheating on me with the few people who aren't indifferent to me, who then become indifferent to me. After this most recent relationship collapse, I feel extremely, extremely depressed and lonely, and I feel like I'm running out of options.

Feel free to ask any questions for clarity and I'll do my best to respond.

Thanks.

Well first there are so many GOOD things here, that in a way, I think you are just being too hard on yourself.  To use a very overused term from the last 6 months, think "lagging indicator".  Your success with obtaining a girlfriend, having a successful relationship, good friendships etc will be a lagging indicator of all the work you've put in.  I think you've done quite a lot and sounds like (from this brief summary) a good job of it too! Congratulations. I think it will come most likely, it just hasn't arrived yet.

Secondly, I think it's always smart to keep honing in to get closer to the goal.  You can do mirroring techniques of someone who has success similar to the type you want.  And you can also keep fine tuning what work you've done.  

I'm going to take a guess based on what you wrote above that might still be going on & that you should work on if it resonates that it could be true.  I bolded areas that stood out to me.

First, i would say that while you have focused on yourself, is it possible that you changed external things (looks, how you interact with others, ie planning events, putting yourself out there, etc) and that's what was focused on.  I think the theme I kept seeing in your post is that internally you aren't putting yourself first genuinely.  You do the external things that should get you more of the success you want but it looks like you are being taken for granted.  I think that often/mostly happens when people don't put themselves first INTERNALLY, which is truly something that is conveyed when you believe it.  I often think the "focus on yourself" advice, which is often great advice, means that---put yourself first, think of yourself.  Which also means have boundaries.  It's good to have those in place BEFORE you are with someone.  It's less about setting down boundaries with a new girlfriend but more about just "BEING" someone who has them.   You know if you think of who you are attracted to in life (and won't f*ck with) it's usually those people.  Not all of that is in a threatening or scary way, but with relationships and friendships, it's usually a magnetic/attractive thing that brings people to you, without you having to OFFER something for it.  

Right now people are around (but don't stick around) because they take what you give.  they will go to your excursions, get close enough to you at work or in dating because there is something in it for them---I would guess that is probably because in some way you are conveying it's there for the taking, like a trade.  So you are kind of setting yourself up to be used.  If you have set boundaries, and give away less freely, but it's just who you are then people generally want to be close to you because it brings up their status to be a part of your circle or date you--that IS the trade, full stop.  So be careful not to offer up incentives other than just hanging out with you--that should be good enough.

Be careful that you aren't looking for external validation--you have to give it to yourself first --- ironically that will make you more attractive with all the external things, ie people you want to come around and stick around you.

A friend of mine told me a book she read on boundaries, I legit think it's called "Boundaries" was life changing for her.  lol, to be honest, I really don't think she has any problems with boundaries  lol, but still--she was telling me about it and I think something like that would help.  I think people with reoccurring issues like you have had think it's all about hard-nosed drawing a line about what would and would not be ok and if someone doesn't follow it then you cut 'em off.  I haven't read the book so I hope it would say what I know it truly is.  It's more like just having those standards inside you.  It actually gives you more flexibility & basically you are seen as the right YOU from the beginning.  I think when it's not living inside you the little rules one makes up as boundaries read as a little false or retaliation and basically that's a lose-lose rather than a win-win. I know I'm barely making sense so I hope you can bare with me.  There's a bit of you can fake it til you make it but personally I don't think a lot.  You want the right pattern to set in from the beginning.  Like for example, your work colleagues, do you think it would be possible to change their perception of you or would it be easier to just phase them out a bit and get new friends?  I kind of think the latter.  Once a pattern or dynamic is too set in a relationship, it's hard to change.  Like trying to put boundaries in place now with people you already know doesn't go over well.  There's a term for it but I will spare you.

I think it's likely the same thing was happening with your ex-girlfriends.  If you were too nice, too giving, weak boundaries, "trading" (ie probably doing too much for a position in the relationship), I'm guessing that's why you were cheated on.  You devalued yourself & therefore were taken for granted.  For sake of what you can control & work on, I'm not going to talk about what their issues might have been--doesn't matter since we can only work on ourselves.  In the future, I think you have to absolutely feel & be like an equal.  Even treat yourself better.  If you aren't going to advocate for yourself, who will?  You see how being too nice almost sets you up for being taking for granted?  Try NOT to win anyone over.  MATCH what they give you.

Next you also need to work on your belief system.  Believing that you always have difficulty making friends or they aren't in it for the long haul or only will include you if you are planning, in effect becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Your mind will LOOK for evidence that supports this belief.  My advice is to give a more positive belief in your head that your mind can look for supporting evidence.  "I make friends easily" which to be honest, you've obviously done because I legit wouldn't go to a work event at all if I didn't like you at least some. On the beliefs that you have right now that do have a ring of truth to them, such as you are only included if you are planning the thing, try to get it to NEUTRAL.  Try not to have ANY belief, not negative and obviously positive is hard if you know there was an event and you simply were not invited.  But let's be honest, it's further supporting negative thoughts you have about yourself and your place in this world with the way you fill in the blank.  Maybe you don't ask "why" just presume the answer.  let's even say there is a hint of the truth if you did ask why.  I think harmless asking why wasn't i invited (tone nice) or saying that looked fun last night, I would have loved to go negates bad feelings you take on for yourself about it.  Take the high road but not feeling ashamed that you weren't invited.  You know who does that? A confident person, who doesn't hold those belief about himself & suddenly by that action, your pushing yourself in that direction, in your self-perception & their perception.  Anyway, it's a thought to do it that way--I certainly would.  Also maybe these people are not worthy of YOU.  Instead of trying to gain access to their world, try to make it like they need to impress you.  Not in an arrogant way or even said aloud--but the shift in your mind will be perceptible.  That is part of the "boundaries" that I really mean.

Lastly, if your therapist is the only one you can confide in and you are introverted by nature, I'm wondering if you keep things so close to the vest & so inside that you never really let people in--which does have a tendency to drive people away.  I don't know if now is the right time to assess this because if you don't have the semblance of being close to someone right now, you can't really work on opening up but you could try it in little ways with your work colleagues (as long as it's not going to mess you up at work, like still keep in mind it's a workplace, ie certain info is not ok at work). But I think you could work on opening up.  I think the best people to do that with would be a guy friend (not from work), or a girl who is just a friend or a similar age family member.  Also if you've been going to the same therapist for 9 years maybe consider shaking things up with a new one (either partly or fully change to another one) for another perspective.  You don't want to get stagnant on your progress & sometimes it just takes another set of eyes and ideas on that.

Ok hope this helped & look forward to your continued story. I think you will get there.  You just need to also look as the work you've done as a great gift and testament to yourself & your strength rather than something hopeless.  The act of it alone and the discipline should put you ahead of others in a lot of ways.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Versacehottie

[d0nnivain]

On 8/9/2020 at 8:25 PM, cac1990 said:

Naturally, I'm pretty introverted. Making friends has been a challenge for me as long as I can remember, usually it takes months to a year or more for me to make a friend, and as you can infer from above, they're clearly not in it for the long haul 

* * * 

I've been fighting this battle for almost a decade and seem to be doing all the "right things," but people react to the overweight, not-very-confident, minimum-wage job me the same way they react to the healthy, confident, good career me: with mostly complete indifference or in the case of relationships, cheating on me with the few people who aren't indifferent to me, who then become indifferent to me.

First of all you are misusing the word introvert.  An introvert is somebody who recharges their own mental & emotional batteries through solitude.  An extrovert needs people & activity to recharge.  It has nothing to do with the learned social skill of making friends. 

Because you were overweight & a bit shy, you never honed your ability to network, to put yourself out there.  You also haven't truly embraced the new you.  When you look in the mirror you still see the fat underachiever.  You have to do a better job accepting your successes & defining yourself as you are now, not who you were then.  Your therapist can help with that.  

You would probably do well with some kind of class on interpersonal relationships or working with a quality life coach.  I'm thinking something like a Dale Carnegie class but those are expensive & I don't know how the class would work with distance learning.   Read books like How to Win Friends & Influence People by Napoleon Hill & business books that focus on networking & personal marketing, only you are marketing yourself as a friend / BF. 

Get involved in organizations.  Not just meet ups.     Join something that meets regularly to do something like a sports team, a book club, or a civic organization like the Elks, the Moose, the Kiwainis.  They are not just for old men anymore.  They will help you find a sense of community or belonging.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by d0nnivain