Happy Lemming Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, introverted1 said: I suggested a drink at a rooftop bar, not a crappy appetizer at Applebees! You better include food, cause after a drink or two, she is going to want to eat something. It won't be long you'll be hitting $75 after you tip the bartender.
introverted1 Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: You better include food, cause after a drink or two, she is going to want to eat something. It won't be long you'll be hitting $75 after you tip the bartender. I guess I'm a cheap date. I rarely have more than 1 drink and a meet for drinks is just that - drinks. If it goes well, we can have a dinner date later. First meetings should be low investment, but that doesn't mean they have to be bland. 2
Happy Lemming Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, introverted1 said: I suggested a drink at a rooftop bar... And she'll call her BFF the next day and the BFF will ask about the date and say "What do you mean he didn't buy you dinner? OMG, he is a CHEAP loser, I would never go out with a guy that did that" And the BFF has planted the seed, that her boyfriend would never do such a thing. At this point, you'll never get a second date.
introverted1 Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: And she'll call her BFF the next day and the BFF will ask about the date and say "What do you mean he didn't buy you dinner? OMG, he is a CHEAP loser, I would never go out with a guy that did that" And the BFF has planted the seed, that her boyfriend would never do such a thing. At this point, you'll never get a second date. I believe you, but speaking only for myself, the last thing I want to do on a first meeting is commit to dinner. I see a big difference between a first meeting and a first date (the latter happens only after the former has been deemed a success). But this is why we date, right? -- to find people with whom we're compatible. 1
poppyfields Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, introverted1 said: I suggested a drink at a rooftop bar, not a crappy appetizer at Applebees! That sounds lovely! Mixed in with a yummy app you can nibble on together (helps to create emotional intimacy), it's the perfect scenario for an attraction to develop assuming the energy is right. In fact, it is exactly how it played out with my bf, exactly! Rooftop bar included! Scratch coffee, scratch Applebees (seriously?) Put some thought into it, be creative, makes a world of difference. Edited August 4, 2020 by poppyfields 1
Ruby Slippers Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) Yeah, I think coffee date types go together, and proper lunch/dinner types go together. Men I've talked to about the coffee date agree with me that it's cheesy and lame - from our point of view. But I guess coffee date women are happy when a man asks them on a coffee date, while lunch/dinner women are happy when a man asks them on a lunch/dinner date. Like attracts like. Edited August 4, 2020 by Ruby Slippers 3
Fresh_Start Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 11 hours ago, OatsAndHall said: I learned the hard way that a meal is not a good venue for a first date and not just because of the price tag. You're stuck with someone for at least and hour and a half at a restaurant and that can be an absolute disaster. You are obligated to wait for your food, eat it and then get the check. That is excruciating if the date is going badly. I had dinner dates that were on life-support by the time the check rolled in as we had nothing in common and conversation was difficult to keep flowing. That's because you're doing it wrong. Almost all of my first dates have been dinner dates that lead to tons of hookups, multiple short and long term relationships, and even a marriage (a meal was part of that wedding date) so therefore your statement that a meal is not a good venue for a first date is not true. If you'd had a conversation with the woman prior to asking her out to dinner you would have built some initial chemistry and attraction that would have lead to a more successful first date -or- established at that point that you didn't have any chemistry so that you wouldn't have wasted your time or hers by asking her out in the first place. Even then, there are limitless things to talk about even when you have nothing in common if you're a good conversationalist. Get her talking about herself and her own interests, ask related questions, and interject with your own flirty, fun, and playfully cocky comments. When you're confident and a good conversationalist you can find a common ground with anyone and never run out of things to talk about. The common denominator in every single one of these scenarios is not the venue, but the person. What you did learn is that going out to dinner on a first date is not a good venue for the version of you that exists right now or the one that showed up that night. These are things that you can work on and they all start with building more self-confidence and changing your attitude or mindset. If you confidently go into each date looking forward to the opportunity to meet a new person and get to know her better, you won't be using words like "stuck with someone", "absolute disaster", "obligated", "excruciating", and "life support". You won't always have a spark with the other person when you do meet up, but you can still enjoy one another's company with good food, good conversation, and a little bit of liquid courage to get the conversation flowing if that's what it takes. I have been confidently going into dinner dates with this positive mindset for decades and that's why going on them guarantees that I at least have an enjoyable evening and can make it enjoyable for my date too even if we decide afterwards that the romantic chemistry wasn't sufficient enough for a second date. It happens. Those dates end with a hug or a platonic kiss on the cheek without any hard feelings and without me feeling like I wasted time or money. 1
Fresh_Start Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said: Yeah, I think coffee date types go together, and proper lunch/dinner types go together. Men I've talked to about the coffee date agree with me that it's cheesy and lame - from our point of view. But I guess coffee date women are happy when a man asks them on a coffee date, while lunch/dinner women are happy when a man asks them on a lunch/dinner date. Like attracts like. Not surprisingly, there are plenty of coffee date women who actually hate coffee dates. They go along with them for the reasons we've all discussed, but they would rather go out and do something fun or be treated special. I can think of at least a half dozen times on an OLD where, after exchanging a couple of messages, the woman suggested that "maybe we could meet up for coffee" and when I suggested dinner instead they were relieved and talked about how much they hated coffee dates, didn't think people went on real dates anymore, or didn't think that men asked them on real dates anymore. So keep that in mind, gentlemen, as some additional food for thought. The coffee dates that you're going on might just be more of a forced habit than anything the woman really wants to do. Edited August 4, 2020 by Fresh_Start 1
OatsAndHall Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 Yes, if I would ask a woman out to dinner if I had met them in RL and actually had a clue what they were like. But, it's a whole different story via OLD; that coffee date is your first meeting and chance to get to feel them out. Bottom line; I've been with my gf for 9 months, we're going strong and our first date was at a coffee shop. So, you guys date your way and I'll do it mine. 2
Ruby Slippers Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said: I can think of at least a half dozen times on an OLD where, after exchanging a couple of messages, the woman suggested that "maybe we could meet up for coffee" and when I suggested dinner instead they were relieved and talked about how much they hated coffee dates, didn't think people went on real dates anymore, or didn't think that men asked them on real dates anymore. So keep that in mind, gentlemen, as some additional food for thought. The coffee dates that you're going on might just be more of a forced habit than anything the woman really wants to do. Good point. However, women should have the confidence and strength not to lower the bar because "everybody's doing it." I think a lot of the problems in the dating world today, the reason so many men are so lazy and halfhearted, is that so many women have lowered the bar right down to the ground. Men adapt to clear whatever bar women set. If every woman declined any invite that wasn't for lunch/dinner, then men would adapt to that. And men would likely screen women a lot better for that date - which would be smart as well. I totally agree with you, though. I doubt that many women are happy to tell the story of how her man took her for a freakin cup of coffee for the first date. 1
Fresh_Start Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, OatsAndHall said: But, it's a whole different story via OLD It really isn't, as I said on the previous page: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/596611-mid-morning-old/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-7856861 Whether you meet a woman in real life or online, you should always get her phone number and have a conversation with her before you go out with her. That's where you get the opportunity to get to know her a little better and build some of that initial chemistry and attraction that makes transitioning to a real date a natural and exciting next step that both parties to the date are looking forward to. I don't want to rehash everything I've said in the thread, but I did want to reiterate and reemphasize that point for everyone's benefit. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said: Whether you meet a woman in real life or online, you should always get her phone number and have a conversation with her before you go out with her. That's where you get the opportunity to get to know her a little better and build some of that initial chemistry and attraction that makes transitioning to a real date a natural and exciting next step that both parties to the date are looking forward to. Yes. I can't fathom meeting some stranger from online without having a good phone conversation first. That's where you find out if you really have anything in common, whether he/she's intelligent and can carry on a good conversation, whether there's any conversational chemistry. And simply that they're a real person and not some fake profile. It's been rare, but I have talked to a few guys who were terrible at conversation or said off-putting things during that phone call. Then I knew it wasn't even worth meeting. One guy asked at the end of the phone call if he could come over. I told him I never have and never will do something so stupid. I think so many people here rant about bad online dates because they don't bother to take these basic screening steps, which would save so much time and energy, avoid a lot of expense and frustration. 1
dangerous Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 1:34 AM, Fresh_Start said: This is only true for speed daters and coffee daters (which is essentially a form of speed dating), both of whom invest very little into actually making a meaningful connection and therefore, ironically, don't make them nearly as easily. With one sentence you've just summed up exactly why coffee dates exist and why they're such a terrible way to date. I've never treated online dating any differently. That's just another mental obstacle that you all create for yourselves as you set yourselves up to fail over and over again, not realizing that you would have succeeded with most of the people you churned and burned on a coffee date if you'd actually been focused on the right things in the first place. In fact, OLD is superior in many ways because it gives someone access to tons of people they would have otherwise never met or even knew existed. I could hop on an OLD right now, browse through some profiles of very attractive women I will likely never cross paths with in real life, send them a message, and be well on my way towards a first date. I don't need to turn over a thousand shells to find a pearl; I swim to where all the shells with the pearls are and pick the one I like the best. Sometimes what you're trying the hardest to find is hiding in plain sight. Think about a time where you "lost your keys", you were in a hurry, and because you were more focused on the time and your destination you failed to see what was right in front of you only to foolishly realize after you wasted all that time looking for them that they were right there all along. You need to totally change your attitude if you're to have success with dating and finding that "elusive" match. If you half-ass any process, you'll get half-assed results. Man, what you are saying here is so detached from reality in the modern OLD world. You sound like a dating coach who is desperate to wax lyrical about what a panacea OLD is. Its not. There are many many more dates via OLD that are non-starters than successes, and no matter how much positive attitude one has will not change the odds of this market-place. 3
dangerous Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 6:52 PM, OatsAndHall said: Yes, if I would ask a woman out to dinner if I had met them in RL and actually had a clue what they were like. But, it's a whole different story via OLD; that coffee date is your first meeting and chance to get to feel them out. Bottom line; I've been with my gf for 9 months, we're going strong and our first date was at a coffee shop. So, you guys date your way and I'll do it mine. Exactly this.
dangerous Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 6:27 PM, Fresh_Start said: That's because you're doing it wrong. Almost all of my first dates have been dinner dates that lead to tons of hookups, multiple short and long term relationships, and even a marriage (a meal was part of that wedding date) so therefore your statement that a meal is not a good venue for a first date is not true. If you'd had a conversation with the woman prior to asking her out to dinner you would have built some initial chemistry and attraction that would have lead to a more successful first date -or- established at that point that you didn't have any chemistry so that you wouldn't have wasted your time or hers by asking her out in the first place. Even then, there are limitless things to talk about even when you have nothing in common if you're a good conversationalist. Get her talking about herself and her own interests, ask related questions, and interject with your own flirty, fun, and playfully cocky comments. When you're confident and a good conversationalist you can find a common ground with anyone and never run out of things to talk about. The common denominator in every single one of these scenarios is not the venue, but the person. What you did learn is that going out to dinner on a first date is not a good venue for the version of you that exists right now or the one that showed up that night. These are things that you can work on and they all start with building more self-confidence and changing your attitude or mindset. If you confidently go into each date looking forward to the opportunity to meet a new person and get to know her better, you won't be using words like "stuck with someone", "absolute disaster", "obligated", "excruciating", and "life support". You won't always have a spark with the other person when you do meet up, but you can still enjoy one another's company with good food, good conversation, and a little bit of liquid courage to get the conversation flowing if that's what it takes. I have been confidently going into dinner dates with this positive mindset for decades and that's why going on them guarantees that I at least have an enjoyable evening and can make it enjoyable for my date too even if we decide afterwards that the romantic chemistry wasn't sufficient enough for a second date. It happens. Those dates end with a hug or a platonic kiss on the cheek without any hard feelings and without me feeling like I wasted time or money. Again, this is way too simplistic. Talking to someone before meeting is no guarantee whatsoever in establishing how genuine or attractive they are. This forum and the dating world in general, is FULL of stories and experiences of liars, nut-jobs, people using out of date photos, and so on. There is NO way of qualifying what a person is like until you meet them. And that is up to you as the individual to agree where (and how much time and money) you are (both) prepared to invest. so it really is a pointless argument as to whether a quick drink or dinner is best: if both agree to a certain type of date then that is what works for those two people. For me, based on MY experiences, I prefer coffee or drinks to meet first. 1
Fresh_Start Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, dangerous said: Man, what you are saying here is so detached from reality in the modern OLD world. You sound like a dating coach who is desperate to wax lyrical about what a panacea OLD is. Its not. There are many many more dates via OLD that are non-starters than successes, and no matter how much positive attitude one has will not change the odds of this market-place. When my own experiences are drastically different than yours, with the constant being OLD, that means you and I are the variables. My way and my positive attitude leads to success, yours leads to something else. You can do the math. 3 hours ago, dangerous said: Again, this is way too simplistic. Exactly. It is that simple. You just lack the confidence, experience, and mindset to pull it off effectively so you dismiss it as not being applicable. 3 hours ago, dangerous said: Talking to someone before meeting is no guarantee whatsoever in establishing how genuine or attractive they are. It may not be a guarantee, but it's damn close if you know what you're doing and ask the right questions. As far as the statistical outliers and anomalies who lie and use out of date photos from when they were 20-30 pounds lighter, they are the exception not the rule depending upon the type of person you are and who you are attracting. I have encountered a few people like that and it was disappointing, but that's not enough for me to completely change what has worked for me, my personality, my confidence level, and my looks for decades and includes a marriage. The fact that you talk about how many people you need to meet before finding a match while I have had dozens of great first dates as well as multiple short term and even more long term relationships while using the same service tells me all I need to know. 3 hours ago, dangerous said: There is NO way of qualifying what a person is like until you meet them. This is a very ignorant statement that is objectively false. I spent 10 years running a business, in fact, where qualifying my prospective clients over the phone prior to meeting them in person was a process I engaged in probably in the neighborhood of 10,000 times. I've given you advice that you don't have to take. It's no skin off my ass if you don't, but it is your loss. Enjoy your endless carousel of coffee dates. Edited August 5, 2020 by Fresh_Start 1 1
Fox Sake Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) There are many different types of people who have things work very different ways. What works for some does not work for others. There’s no set rule to follow, just our own experiences and our own styles. While I agree that a coffee date can be fun, in my experience 7/10 times It doesn’t hold the same romantic value for usually one of the two people involved, unless you’re already smitten with one another (let’s say you meet online and video chat for a month first, clearly into one another and know lots about the other person) then it doesn’t matter where you meet. Edited August 5, 2020 by Fox Sake Autocorrect mistakes
Logo Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/2/2020 at 1:37 PM, kendahke said: I've read posts on this site in past years where the guy walked out on the woman at a dinner date and women being left at the table where the guy excused himself to the bathroom and never returned. Coffee dates are usually suggested because of having to fork out +$75 for someone who you regretted agreeing to meeting when they walked through the door. Dinner dates for the first meeting aren't any more successful than coffee dates. Through experience I’ve learned that if a woman expects a dinner date on the first date, she’s not interested in getting to know me, she’s more interested in being entertained and a sugar baby. Coffee dates are perfectly good! 3
Acacia98 Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) On 8/4/2020 at 8:52 PM, OatsAndHall said: So, you guys date your way and I'll do it mine. This is my principle too. My eyebrows are raised at all the comments in which folks are insisting that the only way to date is their way, as if it's some religion that one must approach with an orthodox mindset. As for me, personally, if I were single, I would prefer a first date with someone I met online to be at a coffee shop. It allows you to sit down for a reasonable amount of time together and talk, and it allows you to eat and drink something without breaking the bank. We don't all have a ton of money to spend at nice restaurants. And broke and poor people do have a right to enjoy other humans' company too. Incidentally, I've never been comfortable dating guys who would spend a ton on me at a restaurant for a first date. Call it a compatibility issue or whatever you will, but it just doesn't work for me. I would prefer to date a guy who was in the same social class as me and who had similar attitudes about money. Mind you, we've not even talked about what dating involves in different communities and countries. Many of the assumptions I'm reading about what is right and proper are very specific to certain social groupings within a few countries (as far as I can tell). Edited August 10, 2020 by Acacia98 Adding a paragraph. 4
Happy Lemming Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 5 hours ago, enigma32 said: It also shouldn't cost a guy $400 a month to date a woman he DOES know. If you are dating someone and see them 2-3 times a week, you are going to spend about $100/week or more. Occasionally, you can get away with a dinner at home and a DVD, but you can't do that too often. Let's say you go to the movies, the going rate is $13.00-$16.50. So for two people you are up to $26.00-$33.00, throw in some inexpensive Chinese take out after the movie (Maybe $20) and you are at $46.00 - $53.00 for this very basic inexpensive date. Some weeks I could spend less and some weeks more. It all averaged out to about $400/month. It's about date planning. You have to entertain the woman you are dating. There used to be a section in the "local rag" called "Things to do this weekend" and it was chock full of ideas, festivals, art shows, etc. Some were inexpensive and you could save a few bucks, but throw in one concert and you're average cost is back up to about $400/month or more. 1
Phallacy Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Uh, no. I sure as f*** do not have to entertain a woman. Folks like you perpetuate this expectation that men are entertainment directors. You go ahead and roll out your expectations. If a woman doesn’t know how to flirt? No 2nd date. 2
Happy Lemming Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 47 minutes ago, Phallacy said: Folks like you perpetuate this expectation that men are entertainment directors. This is what worked for me... I've been dating for 39 years and dated many women. I'll be honest in telling you that I HATED "Date Planning" doing the research, calling the venue, asking about parking, obtaining tickets in advance, printing out a map (prior to GPS) having a "backup plan" if something went wrong, etc. etc. In the end, if I showed her a good time, she'd show me a good time later; so I followed the same formula woman after woman after woman. I'm just telling you what worked for me. If you are able to find a woman that plans weekend activities/travel... Great. I was never that lucky. I did date one woman that would assist in the weekend "Date Planning" by throwing out ideas of things she wanted to do that weekend, (and that helped), but she was not the norm.
Phallacy Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Women typically don’t plan the dates since the planner pays
Happy Lemming Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Phallacy said: Women typically don’t plan the dates since the planner pays And I always paid... I never had a woman reach for the check at a restaurant or open her wallet and say "hey, let me get the tickets for this movie". I not saying this is true for 100% of the women out there, it just never happened to me.
Phallacy Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 I’ve had a few that conveniently got up to use the restroom after the server said they’d bring the check. I also NEVER let her choose the venue. Sometimes they’d pick a place where you paid before you were seated. A few knew the staff and would get your name off your debit card so could run a background check. ALWAYS PAY CASH ALWAYS CHOOSE A VENUE WITH A FEW EXIT POINTS The only awkward issue is when the staff know you and greet you at the door with your date. ”Welcome back Paul. Want the usual? Double Long Island?”
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