He doesn't follow up with me after intimacy. do I communicate or drop him?

[Fresh_Start]

13 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

And girl don't you dare go around sending nudes in this day and age!  I suspect you did that in a bid to try and up his attraction/gain his attention, but unfortunately men see right through our little ploys.  Guys text/share those with each other, I see it happen alllll the time.  They think it's funny and makes him look like a stud to his friends.

There are a lot of posts on this site that have me convinced I'm from another planet.

I have never in my life shared any of the nude pics I've received with anyone.  Sharing them is neither funny nor studly.  It's pathetic, disgraceful, immature, and disrespectful.  Those pictures are for my eyes only, not for some creeper who received them several iterations of forwards down the line to jerk off to.   

14 hours ago, caputo77 said:

I'll admit, I've had this problem in most of my recent relationships and I recognize that I can be really confusing to guys, and they usually get frustrated and drop me because of that. Which is 100% fair.

I guess I'm kind of reaching a point where I'm trying to figure out what my boundaries SHOULD be. Due to a variety of factors, I'm  24 and still a virgin, which is why I'm not ready to have casual sex with just anybody. I am 100% ready to have sex on every other level, I just feel like it needs to be with someone who understands that I'm a virgin and isn't going to just get up and ghost me right after. That's my main fear, because obviously based on this post, I'm not going to take it well if that happens.

So there is a trust threshold I need to reach before I get there. But I feel like if I don't do ANYTHING sexual with the average guy in his mid-20's after a certain amount of time, there's no way he stays around long enough for us to even have a chance to get to that level of trust. "Taking it slow" just doesn't even seem possible with guys my age these days. So I feel stuck, and then I end up doing weird stuff like telling him I'm not ready to have sex but then lying half naked in his bed with him and sending him dirty photos which, yes, I know, makes me seem psycho and really confusing.

Then stop overthinking and overcomplicating all of this with half-assed antiquated virtues.  Ditch your V-card and embrace your sexuality because it will become increasingly more difficult for any guy to understand and tolerate these mixed messages with every tick of the clock.

So that we're clear, this is not a green light for you to sleep with the next guy you meet or every guy you meet; it's empowering you to ditch the yoke of self-imposed abstinence and the superficial, desultory virtues you've attached to it, which is evident from your contradictory actions.  

Being an experienced lover will actually make you more desirable when the right guy does come along.  Your first time will probably be awkward and a bit uncomfortable just like everybody else's so you might as well get that out of the way, learn a thing or two, and enjoy what is a natural part of life and relationships. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BaileyB]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin and waiting to have sex with someone you love and trust.

For every guy who says “I would have dropped you by 24” there is another who has either never had sex or doesn’t mind at all that you don’t have a lot of experience. Twenty four is young, there is no rush and you should certainly never do something that you are not comfortable doing. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by BaileyB

[Fresh_Start]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin and waiting to have sex with someone you love and trust. 

Of course there isn't, but you aren't paying close enough attention to what I quoted or what I'm saying.  She engages in confusing and contradictory actions.  She wants to continue to be a virgin while sending naked pictures, lying naked in bed with guys, and saying she's 100% ready to have sex on every other level.  To me that says she's confused and only arbitrarily following what she perceives to be a set of a societal standards and virtues that are frankly antiquated anyways.  All too often women are shamed away from having sex or being the least bit promiscuous when they shouldn't be.  It's a silly, obsolete double standard of a bygone generation with sexist views and values.

 If she wants to remain a virgin, which she clearly doesn't anyways, then don't be a tease like that.  It's like a vegan who eats fish.  

[BaileyB]

I hear what you are saying and I agree that she is sending very mixed messages. I just wanted to make it absolutely clear that there is no harm in waiting until she’s ready. There is no shame in being a 24 year old virgin. For the right guy, it won’t be a problem. 

[caputo77]

Thanks very much everyone for reading my post and taking the time to respond kindly, thoughtfully, and without judgement with your different perspectives.

I think I'm definitely going to chalk this one up as a learning experience and just let it go, since we're clearly not on the same page about what we want.  Sleepovers and sexting aside, I want a relationship. However,  it's become pretty clear he wants something more casual. Both are totally fair and fine but obviously we're not compatible. 

Main takeaway seems to be that in the future, I need to be more careful about inviting guys up to my place/going back home to theirs before I feel ready to have sex with them.  I obviously don't want to be a tease and I understand how frustrating that must be when I treat guys like that. I guess I thought that would keep them interested by at least giving them "something" until they got actual sex, but now upon viewing it from their perspective, it's just incredibly confusing.

Even though I'm frustrated and I know it might not come easy, I do still want to wait to have sex until I find someone I am fully comfortable with and feel I can trust. I don't have a problem with casual sex in theory, I don't find it shameful, and I want to have sex very much (obviously based on my odd behaviors lol). But I know myself and I am a sensitive person who easily gets attached and invested. I'm just made that way. Although I'd rather just have fun, I think I need to tread carefully when it comes to sex.

I'm guessing I'll probably have more luck in finding that "right" guy if I work on being a bit more consistent in my messaging, determining exactly what it is that I want, and communicating that in my words AND actions. I'm going to work on creating concrete, yet reasonable boundaries for myself in the early dating stages and see what happens from there.

 

This has definitely provided me with lots of food for thought. Which is important as I keep moving forward and try to learn how to navigate all that dating entails at this age. Thanks guys! I'm sure I'll be back with a new post before long 

 

 

 

[BaileyB]

The best advice I got from a friend was to wait and be really sure about a guy before having sex. Because, once you have sex and the hormones kick in... well, that bonds you to the man and it can seriously impact your judgment.   Rightfully so, the intimacy brings you closer and It helps to progress the relationship... It’s just something else to consider. 

Good luck in your search! 

Edited July 29, 2020 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

Date for more than 2 weeks before you jump into anything. If you do not want sex for cultural reasons that's fine. It doesn't seem like the case however. Are you afraid of what your first encounter will be like? If you want to be in an exclusive relationship before you get physical you need to act that way and be clear. Most of all figure out what you want.

[Ruby Slippers]

Definitely don't give your virginity to some random schmo. You've retained it for a reason. Don't listen to the pornified, debased men here and elsewhere. The right man for you will value it for the rare gift it is. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[stillafool]

10 hours ago, caputo77 said:

I do still want to wait to have sex until I find someone I am fully comfortable with and feel I can trust.

I think you need to give your virginity to a man who is in love with you.  At 24 giving your virginity to just a guy you just feel comfortable with and trust will still make you feel empty after sex.  It will not feel special to you at all.  Most guys who care know the responsibility that comes with taking the virginity of a 24 year old.  A man who is in love with you will stick around where a guy who is out for casual will take it, stick around a while and then want a more experienced sex partner and eventually bounce.

[Fresh_Start]

8 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Don't listen to the pornified, debased men here and elsewhere.

This does not even remotely describe me.  It's ironic that my post started by addressing yet another of the many generalizations about men that get thrown around here only to wake up to what I was already irritated with directed at me this time in an offensively inaccurate and presumptive characterization. 

My suggestion to the OP was based on her own statements and contradictory actions.  She sends dirty pictures, lies naked in bed with men, and says she's 100% ready to have sex outside of her concerns about them potentially ghosting her if she does, which clearly indicates that she's only hanging onto her virginity on the basis of some kind of misguided virtue that she's only superficially committed to.  The mixed messages she is sending with this behavior while trying to maintain her virginity until an ambiguous and unspecified level of "trust" is reached is causing men to get frustrated with her and dump her.  I don't blame them and would have done the same thing.  By her own words she said her conflicting words and actions "make [me] seem like a psycho and really confusing" while agreeing that it was "100% fair [for men to dump her]".  On the previous page, d0nnivain referred to it as being a "c*ck tease" and so did I (although I asked a mod to edit my post to remove that as well as clarify one of my sentences since BaileyB misinterpreted what it was I was saying and addressing) so a woman can refer to it as such, but when I do I'm suddenly the second coming of Larry Flynt?  Get real.

There was nothing wrong with the advice I gave nor the suggestion I made with all of these facts considered.  Sex is a natural and beautiful part of what we do as human beings in life, love, and relationships.  The OP has no problem sending naked pictures and having naked sleepovers with a man so why not just go with the flow, not worry so much about the potential of getting ghosted (which is inevitably going to happen at some point anyways), and embrace her sexuality?  It's better than being half-assed and sending mixed messages that are unfair to the men she's dating and that undermine her own attempts at finding a boyfriend. 

[ExpatInItaly]

12 hours ago, Fresh_Start said:

I have never in my life shared any of the nude pics I've received with anyone.  Sharing them is neither funny nor studly.  It's pathetic, disgraceful, immature, and disrespectful.  Those pictures are for my eyes only, not for some creeper who received them several iterations of forwards down the line to jerk off to.   

It is. But it does indeed happen sometimes, unfortunately. I am speaking from experience - not my own photos, but my dear friend. She found out later her pic had  been viewed by more than its intended audience. On a different occasion, a male acquaintance of mine actually showed me a saucy pic he'd received from a girl he was dating.(I'm a woman too, and he was a coworker with too many beers in him. It was not the photo I expected to see when I asked how things were going with his new lady friennd) I don't necessarily think it's a frequent occurrence but it absolutely does happen. 

'Anyway, OP, it seems you've taken a lot of the advice here into consideration. Did he ever get back you, by the way?

[caputo77]

10 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Anyway, OP, it seems you've taken a lot of the advice here into consideration. Did he ever get back you, by the way?

Yeah, he did....really late last night. He did immediately apologize for not getting back to me all day and then said we should "hang out" on Thursday.

I didn't really engage much, just told him if he'd like to text me today at a reasonable time and ask me out on an actual date, then I'd consider it. He apologized for coming off the wrong way with his text and said he'd do that. We'll see and I guess I'll decide from there. 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, caputo77 said:

Yeah, he did....really late last night. He did immediately apologize for not getting back to me all day and then said we should "hang out" on Thursday

It's not your job to teach him dating etiquette. If he acts like all he wants is hookups it's your job to observe that and move on.

[curlygirl40]

30 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not your job to teach him dating etiquette. If he acts like all he wants is hookups it's your job to observe that and move on.

Wiseman is wise.     It's that simple.      By telling him to text you at a reasonable time and ask you for a real date, instead of him doing these things because he values you and he wants to, he may do them because you've now told him to.    And then where do you sit?   Wondering if he asked you on a proper date because you nudged him or because he wanted to.    You won't know.     I would drop this guy, let him learn that you are not wired for casual whatever and just move on.     You don't need to tell him, show him 

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not your job to teach him dating etiquette. If he acts like all he wants is hookups it's your job to observe that and move on.

A. Men. He's treating you like a booty call already. This guy is bad news.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, Fresh_Start said:

This does not even remotely describe me. 

I wasn't directing that comment at you or anybody in particular. I like you. Your posts often make me say to myself: THANK YOU!  I do totally disagree with you on this topic, though.

For most women, sex outside a loving relationship isn't memorable, most likely not all that pleasurable, and certainly not worth the STD and emotional risks that come with it.

As she said:

13 hours ago, caputo77 said:

But I know myself and I am a sensitive person who easily gets attached and invested. I'm just made that way. 

This is 100% natural, normal, and healthy. Most women are this way, but many have trained themselves out of it to go along with the influences on the day - usually to their own detriment. She'll lose absolutely nothing by waiting to have sex until a meaningful, loving bond is established. And she stands to gain a whole lot - at the very least, good memories about her first sexual experiences, which she'll remember for the rest of her life.

[Fresh_Start]

4 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I wasn't directing that comment at you or anybody in particular.

If you say so, Dorothy. (Just a playful allusion to ruby slippers)

When you specify "here" and tell her "don't listen" when I'm the only one offering contrary advice, I trust you can understand how the inference was made.

4 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I like you.

Well at least you have good taste.

24 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I do totally disagree with you on this topic, though.

Disagreement between people can be healthy, particularly when it gives us the opportunity to clarify our points so that others can consider them from a different perspective.  To be in total disagreement, though, means that you disagree with everything I said so do you therefore condone the mixed messages she's sending with her sexually suggestive behavior?  Do you think it is fair to the men she is dating that she sends them naked pictures of herself and invites them over for naked sleepovers, which demonstrate and communicate trust in addition to being sexually suggestive, only to be afraid of taking the next step in being physically intimate because of the very trust that she's already shown them? 

Even she recognizes that it is confusing and unfair while not faulting the men who dump her because of it so I'm curious as to why we're in opposition on this point.  

Let's not overlook the other things she is saying in conjunction with her actions either:

13 hours ago, caputo77 said:

 I want to have sex very much (obviously based on my odd behaviors lol).

This is also 100% natural, normal, and healthy. 

Many of my colleagues are Sexuality Consultants.  I am a Behavior Consultant myself and there is some overlap with the sexuality side.  I'm simply reading between the lines in everything that the OP is saying as well as in all of her actions and seeing a young woman who really wants to have sex, but is afraid to take that next step because she's worried about getting hurt if she does.  This has lead to her engaging in behavior that signals she is ready and willing to have sex and that she trusts the man enough to do so by sending him naked pictures and lying naked with him in bed only to unwittingly sabotage these relationships when she slams on the brakes.  It's a jarring disconnect; it's confusing, sexually suggestive mixed messages that no self-respecting man is going to tolerate for very long as she is learning.  

I still believe that she is overthinking and overcomplicating all of this and that it's fueled by anxiety as well as some additional things she's not telling us, which is why she said, "Due to a variety of factors, I'm 24 and still a virgin" and also why she said "I almost just feel like I should just sleep with the next guy that tries so I can just cross that bridge and be done with it."  Those aren't the words of someone who wants to make sure they're in the perfect, loving, trusting, virtuous relationship that some of you think she needs before she's willing to take the next step.    

What I'm not doing: promoting profligate promiscuity.  Couldn't resist the alliteration. 

What I am doing: providing reasonable justification and reassurance that there's nothing wrong with embracing her sexuality and acting upon her urges.  If she's feeling comfortable (and trusting) enough to send nude pictures and have naked sleepovers, stating that it's what she wanted and that they both played an equal part in it, then she is being implicitly trusting enough to be physically intimate.  Physical intimacy is a natural part of our existence as human beings and is an important component to developing chemistry and compatibility as well as a deeper emotional connection.  

There are tons of articles -- written by women -- that detail why there is nothing wrong with casual sex, sex on a first date, etc.  It's just that faulty social conventions have programmed outdated and very sexist double standards into a significant portion of our society when it comes to having sex, ie, "if a man has sex on a first date (or has many sexual partners) he's a stud; if a woman does she's a slut".  Most women in this day and age want gender equality and this is part of it -- recognizing that men and women have the same sexual needs and desires and that there shouldn't be any shame in acting upon them.  

So it could be that I'm way off the mark here, or it could be that I'm a lot closer to it than anyone is willing to admit.  

[Ruby Slippers]

5 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said:

When you specify "here" and tell her "don't listen" when I'm the only one offering contrary advice, I trust you can understand how the inference was made.

Honestly, most of the time I skim posts and don't read every word. I didn't realize you were the only guy to advise her to go ahead and have sex. In my mind, more guys will probably soon chime in and echo your message. That's what usually happens in threads about female virginity. Most women say you've held out for something special, so hold to it until something special arises. Men tend to say go on and have sex. Hmmm, I wonder why.

I don't see where she said she got naked with the guy, just that she slept in the same bed, I'm assuming wearing something. As I see it, sending sexy photos is a far cry from having sex. A sexy photo doesn't put a woman's body or emotions at risk.

I don't think men who have sex are studs, or women who have sex are sluts. But it's common knowledge that women tend to get more attached after sex, and the OP said she's sensitive and worries about this. Women also face much more severe health consequences from STDs than men do. So no matter what, it's smart for her to have a good relationship in place before she goes there.

Obviously, she can and will do what she wants. But none of her waffling is going to put off a man who really cares about HER as a person, not just as a means to sexual gratification. I've learned that when a man really likes you, as long as you're being honest and sincere, he'll be extremely patient and forgiving, especially around sensitive subjects. Assuming you're behaving in a caring, fair way, it's almost impossible to scare off or drive away a man who really cares about you. And why bother with anything less?

[spiderowl]

I agree that sleeping over does not necessarily mean sex. A female friend might sleep over and the two talk at night. It is caring and innocent. If a guy assumes she means more by it when she has specifically confirmed not, then he is fooling himself. Also, she did not mention getting naked with him. No reason to assume that.

OP, you already know sending a pic was not a good idea. We’ve all made mistakes. You were smart to make sure your face was not in the pic.

Did he ask for a pic? If so, then be on your guard. It’s early days to be asking for pics. I’m not sure a decent guy would ever ask, to be honest. He might want a pic of you, but a naked one is more invasive.

He is very uncaring in not following up. Trust your instincts on that.  I would leave him to prove his worth and work harder than this. He sounds like he’s sitting back and expecting you to ‘perform’ in some way, maybe that’s what you were responding to, a feeling that you were expected to give more?

Take time to get to know this guy. The early signs make him seem a bit passive/thoughtless.

[Fresh_Start]

1 hour ago, spiderowl said:

Also, she did not mention getting naked with him. No reason to assume that.

 

2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I don't see where she said she got naked with the guy, just that she slept in the same bed,

 

On 7/28/2020 at 4:58 PM, caputo77 said:

I end up doing weird stuff like telling him I'm not ready to have sex but then lying half naked in his bed with him and sending him dirty photos which, yes, I know, makes me seem psycho and really confusing.

No assumptions here @spiderowl.  To be fair, she did say half naked.  It was late last night when I first read all of this and it's now 24 hours later with a workday in between so that's on me.  It wasn't an entirely inaccurate statement either though and depending on which half is naked can certainly lead to expectations of more than just a platonic sleepover, especially with the additional actions of sending dirty photos.  I would not advise anyone who claims she has no intentions of having sex with a guy until she's in a relationship with him to sleep naked or even half naked in each other's beds or send dirty photos.  When women have sent me dirty photos it's because a) they trust me and b) we've already had sex (or are about to in the one instance where I was in a LDR).  Prior to even getting that far, there was a lot of sexually charged flirting, which it sounds like the OP engaged in prior to willingly sending him naked pictures. 

I'm genuinely not understanding why you gals are so opposed to everything I'm saying.  Perhaps you can explain to me how it is that she's not sending sexually suggestive mixed messages by telling a guy that she doesn't want to have sex until she's in a relationship with him only to go on and send him naked pictures and sleep "half" naked in his bed?  Remember: she admitted herself that it is confusing and that guys have dumped her because of it.  Also, where is the harm in encouraging someone who states that she "wants to have sex very much" to embrace her sexuality and act upon her urges, especially when I made it very clear in that post last night that I was not promoting reckless promiscuity nor advocating that she sleeps with the very next man she meets?

Edited July 30, 2020 by Fresh_Start

[Wiseman2]

Do not sext or sleep over until you have established what you want. Doing this after dating a few days is foolish.

Skip the moralistic speeches. It's your responsibility to act in a manner that makes sense. It's not his responsibility to figure out your coquettish games.

[caputo77]

Again, thanks everyone for all of your different perspectives and thoughts. I appreciate getting so much help! 

He did text me yesterday (late again) with a super lame excuse for why he needed to reschedule for Friday (even though he was the one that originally suggested Thursday), still with no suggestion of what he had in mind or anything. We normally try to do something outside, and it's supposed to storm all day Friday...I'm sure the goal was either to cancel on me again, or just for us to end up back at his place. 

I texted him back and told him I didn't think things were going to work for us as we are looking for different things. He seemed a bit shocked/confused and asked a few questions, but we ultimately ended on good terms and wished each other luck. 

Even though I'm sad because I did like him and I think if he was in a more relationship-minded state at the moment it would've been great to keep seeing each other, I can't deny I felt a weight lift off my chest as soon as I knew I didn't have to worry about it anymore. If I chose to see him again, I think I would've just fed into my own anxiety even further by feeling like I was accepting less than I want/deserve and not being true to myself.

Fortunately, I'm not coming out empty-handed, because I definitely learned a lot and have some things to think about in terms of what I want when it comes to sex/boundaries/trust/etc.

[spiderowl]

I think she is young and uncertain, Fresh_start. She doesn’t know how to interact with a guy she wants to get to know and with whom she might want a proper relationship. Bringing sex into that mix too soon is just likely to lead to her being exploited by someone who could take her or leave her. Guys just have a more gung-ho attitude to sex. The consequences are less serious for them.

While no-one should blame a woman for wanting sex as much as a guy, she will probably not be able to detach herself from the act in the way that guys can. 

Telling her to go for it just misses out on all the emotions and context. 

The modern attitudes which teach girls to go for it, remain detached, and have lots of casual sex, just don’t take into account that women (and men) need more from a relationship. Young woman are subjected to so many misleading messages themselves that they do not know their own personal boundaries. They are told they don’t need them, which is just wrong, so they are having to figure this out for themselves. 
 

 

[kendahke]

On 7/28/2020 at 4:58 PM, caputo77 said:

I just feel like it needs to be with someone who understands that I'm a virgin and isn't going to just get up and ghost me right after.

Virgin or not, there is no guarantee that this won't happen until the morning and days after your experience. If he changes his mind and decides he doesn't want to pursue more, he's not going to pursue more... and you'll have to be mentally and emotionally prepared for the disappointment.

If your virginity is important to you, don't play Russian roulette with it. You're going to have to be consistent because while some men will go along to get into your panties, not all of them have the intention on sticking around---and you'll have to invest way more time getting to know the guy without sleepovers and naughty pictures taking place muddying up things.

[Uptown182]

On 7/28/2020 at 3:18 PM, Ruby Slippers said:

Your intuition is telling you loud and clear this guy isn't as interested and emotionally invested as you need a man to be before you get into this kind of intimacy. 

Every single boyfriend I've ever had was in daily contact once we got to that point. And in cases where we really connected, they never missed a day of communication from the day we met. 

Woman's intuition is powerful, and yours is telling you this guy isn't cutting the mustard.

Yea on the one hand I agree with this, every guy I dated that turned into a relationship was in contact with me every day from the first day we met.  However I don’t think I’d write off a guy for not being in contact with me everyday in the beginning.  I think in this case it might be a matter of him not knowing what the OP expects of him.  Also, I think until you’re in an official relationship or at least have discussed exclusivity it might be too early to tell him you expect daily communication from him.

 

To me it just sounds like you guys may not be on the same page.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Uptown182