aklost101 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 so the MM i'm in a relationship with is a cakeman. he's a charmer. just one look at him and he's got you wrapped around his finger (man or woman; relationship or business) he's got his wife, and he's got me and i'm sure he's got other women or have had them or is seeking them. i don't know whether he'll get tired of me or try to play a juggling act. i think he wants to be caught b/c it's fun to talk his way out of it or whatever but i'm not biting... yet anyway... but what i want to know is; he tells me things that make me feel so special and so loved by him, he seems to put me on a pedistal... but i know it's just talk. how come i logically know he's full of bull but emotionally still fall for the same old story.... if i know it, why can't i leave? if i believe it, why don't i love him?
OldEurope Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 You are craving love and affection; a relationship. DO NOT START what you know you are going to have to stop. You are reading this one clearly, and his messages are loud and clear. If you are turning the head of a charmer, I am sure you can find some wonderful SINGLE chap to bewitch as well. DON'T GO THERE.
joodee Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 That's what I do too, I know he's full of you-know-what but I can't seem to shake him off when he invites me to dinner, etc. Listen to your head and not your heart on this one. I know, I should have a long time ago.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 1. but what i want to know is; he tells me things that make me feel so special and so loved by him, he seems to put me on a pedistal... 2. but i know it's just talk. 3. how come i logically know he's full of bull but emotionally still fall for the same old story... 1. That's what cakemen/women do. They have a fantasy in their OW/OM and they live it as fully as possible. The more attention they give you, the more you worship and adore them (and the more likely you are to stick around if they decide to check out for a while for whatever reason and then come back later.) 2. See, that's the most infuriating thing about a cakeman/woman. In the case of a true cakeman/woman (and not just a regular old 'caught in the middle' MM/MW) - they mean what they say. They really do mean those things, but... ... here's the most important part... only in the context of you being their OW/OM That's why cakeman/woman will never leave their W or H. Because they love their W and H, and they absolutely need them in their lives - but only in the context of their role as H and W. Cakeman/woman loves and needs the OW/OM just as much, but in different ways. The only option you have to keep a cakeman/woman and be happy with them is to accept that your love only occupies the "OW/OM" part of their emotional mapping. OW/OM will never fit in the W/H spot. The cakeman/woman simply cannot and will not ever love OW and W the same way. That's not to say one is greater than the other... just different. Now, when d-day comes and cakeman/woman are forced to make a choice usually they will choose the W/H. Why? Because they generally stand to lose a whole lot more by leaving, and because their infidelity had little or nothing to do with how much they love and need their W/H. If they are forced to give up OW/OM, in time they will have to fill that gap again. The OW/OM leaves, but the OW/OM space is still vacant. Nothing W/H can do will fill that. It is reserved for OW/OM activity. Now, in the case where a cakeman/woman ends up with the OW/OM - it gets tricky. Cakeman/woman doesn't magically seal up any vacancies when OW/OM take on W/H roles. That OW/OM space is left vacant when W/H leave and OW/OM take that spot, and in time cakeman/woman will need to fill it up again with a fresh OM/OW. Infuriating, plain and simple. Cakeman/woman aren't people who 'sit the fence' or who are 'torn between two lovers'. They are people who simply have separate needs, and fill them separately and the less one interferes with the other so much the better. 3. Why do you fall for it? Because you want to think that you are enough to fill all the vacancies. Because you like the attention. Because when he is with you, he treats you really well. That is perfectly normal for people to want in a relationship. Unfortunately, the cakeman/woman's 'normal' is that they need to have functioning OW/OM and functioning W/H roles. Its not that you are falling for a story, its that the story you are getting in terms of MM is not the one that you want to accept. It isn't easy being with a cakeman/woman, that's for sure. The OW of a cakeman has but one choice: she can choose to be a HOW, or she can choose to be an UOW, but as long as she is with the cakeman and he is married, she will always be just OW (and he will continue to love OW, but ONLY as the OW). You are probably better off if you don't end up taking that W spot, because it would be a lot harder to have "won" this guy, only to end up a BS in the process. I guess you have to decide which pain you will end up with is worse - that of the permanent OW, or that of his BW.
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 LB, do you have any tips on how to tell a cakeman from a dissatisfied mm? I hope this isnt considered hi-jacking, i just thought it might be helpful.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Cakeman = happy and content with marriage - infidelity stems from having a separate set of needs for W and OW. He is happy with both, and doesn't intend to do without either. Cakeman has separate compartments, each of which he can happily fill. At d-day the cakeman/woman makes a "choice" and lays low until he is ready to fill those compartments again. Cakeman/women don't see it as a choice between OW/OM and H/W. Its two separate things for them. Cakeman/woman sees nothing to 'fix' after d-day, just the need to shift things around to make the peace until the chaos dies down. There is some guilt at knowing the W and/or OW are hurt, but not to the extent that it causes the CM/CW to feel a need to change themselves. The separate needs don't come from being unhappy with one or the other. They are just there. Cakeman/woman will always have two containers, and therefore always have need for an outside relationship. Regardless of who CM/CW ends up with, they will cheat again in order to fill the newly vacant container. Unhappy MM - unhappy and discontent, infidelity stems from feeling that something is 'missing' in his set of needs and he plugs OW into those needs as a band-aid. UMM has only one compartment, and if he feels W is not filling that compartment up he will pour in OW over that and try to fill up any gaps. He becomes confused as the love he has for W gets mixed up and is forced to accomodate for the love he is building for OW. Not separate - he tries to put them both in the same container and fails miserably because he can no longer separate the love he feels for them both. One of them has to be sacrificed for the other. He doesn't want, and nor will he allow himself both, and he literally can't make the choice until he is forced to - guilt eats him alive. After d-day, the UMM will make a choice and identify 'fixes' and will make attempts to fix whatever it is that caused those gaps. Once those gaps are identified and fixed, the MM can move on and not have any outside needs. He can fill his container from within one relationship. If his container stays filled regardless of whether he ends up with W or OW, then he will not cheat. He will have no reason to want to.
newbby Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 ah sorry, this is a great explanation, but, i meant what are the signs for the ow to look for in his dealings with her? is the cakeman generally more loving than the confused and dissatisfied mm or is it just to difficult to tell?
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Its one of those things that its hard to see except in hindsight. When the affair starts, you are really only going to see those things that will guarantee the success of consumation of said affair. MM/MW and CM/CW both act pretty much the same at the beginning. As it goes on MM/MW might make promises of a future, but CM/CW are careful to make sure that OW/OM knows they aren't leaving their M, period.
Author aklost101 Posted October 12, 2005 Author Posted October 12, 2005 lb, thank you for being so insightful... -- i have no intention of ever being the W to this guy. like most other OW on here i came into this mess by accident and too many feelings, etc were already jumbled up by the time i found the truth. i hate myself daily. i attempt to not interfere w/ his "home life"-- i don't call him on his wife/childrens birthdays i don't expect or wish for him on holidays and if he calls or wants to see me on those days i don't answer the phone and always say that i have something else planned. for all your logic on this post and all the others (you should change your name to Ms. Levelheaded) rational and logic just dont' seem to work; otherwise i'd have fled the scene forever ago. what you say is so so sooo true though; he does mean it, just only in that context. thank you
mopar crazy Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Cakeman = happy and content with marriage - infidelity stems from having a separate set of needs for W and OW. He is happy with both, and doesn't intend to do without either. Cakeman has separate compartments, each of which he can happily fill. At d-day the cakeman/woman makes a "choice" and lays low until he is ready to fill those compartments again. Cakeman/women don't see it as a choice between OW/OM and H/W. Its two separate things for them. Cakeman/woman sees nothing to 'fix' after d-day, just the need to shift things around to make the peace until the chaos dies down. There is some guilt at knowing the W and/or OW are hurt, but not to the extent that it causes the CM/CW to feel a need to change themselves. The separate needs don't come from being unhappy with one or the other. They are just there. Cakeman/woman will always have two containers, and therefore always have need for an outside relationship. Regardless of who CM/CW ends up with, they will cheat again in order to fill the newly vacant container. Unhappy MM - unhappy and discontent, infidelity stems from feeling that something is 'missing' in his set of needs and he plugs OW into those needs as a band-aid. UMM has only one compartment, and if he feels W is not filling that compartment up he will pour in OW over that and try to fill up any gaps. He becomes confused as the love he has for W gets mixed up and is forced to accomodate for the love he is building for OW. Not separate - he tries to put them both in the same container and fails miserably because he can no longer separate the love he feels for them both. One of them has to be sacrificed for the other. He doesn't want, and nor will he allow himself both, and he literally can't make the choice until he is forced to - guilt eats him alive. After d-day, the UMM will make a choice and identify 'fixes' and will make attempts to fix whatever it is that caused those gaps. Once those gaps are identified and fixed, the MM can move on and not have any outside needs. He can fill his container from within one relationship. If his container stays filled regardless of whether he ends up with W or OW, then he will not cheat. He will have no reason to want to. aklost, you have gotten some great advice. I hope you can find the strength to let go of this MM and start your life over w/ some wonderful SG who treats you the way you should be treated. GL LB, what great post! I am confused w/ the two though, cakeman and UMM. I thought my H was the cakeman but now that I read what you posted I am confused. My H and I were M 11 years b4 his EA turned into a PA. I am not sure how long the EA began b4 the PA, probably a few months. Anyhow, H and I were not happy in our M. Tried counseling years prior but we were still not really happy. So H filed for a D, I kicked him out, and then after a few days he called and said he made a mistake, moved too fast, we should of tried seperating first, ect. I was hearing rumors of his A w/ the OW but I was in denial. Didn't think H could ever do this to me, I trusted him 100% over the years. H and I were still sleeping 2gether during our seperation. I was in denial of the A, thought sex would win him back, blah, blah, blah. Our sex life was always good, besides him wanting it more, I was satisified w/ once a week, he wasn't. Anyhow, so does this mean my H was not a cakeman even though he was still spending time w/ me, having sex, but yet having an A?
newbby Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 mopar crazy, what did your h say, was he unhappy with the marriage? sounds as though he must have been if you tried counselling etc... i agree though, its very hard to tell a cakeman from a umm. thanks lb!
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Anyhow, H and I were not happy in our M. Tried counseling years prior but we were still not really happy. That is the difference right there. Only you know your H - would he have cheated on you if the problems you were having didn't exist? If he would not, then his A could have simply been a result of him feeling he needed an escape and took the most unfortunate way of doing so. A cakeman/woman will cheat regardless of whether or not there are problems. There can be no problems, and the cakeman/woman will still need that outside need filled.
mopar crazy Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 mopar crazy, what did your h say, was he unhappy with the marriage? sounds as though he must have been if you tried counselling etc... i agree though, its very hard to tell a cakeman from a umm. thanks lb! He said he was unhappy, he said we were both unhappy so he was letting me go to find someone else who would treat me the way I want to be treated but then again he didn't really want out of the M. A few days after I kicked him out of our home (when he said he wanted a D) he called me back and said he made a mistake, he didn't know if filing was the right thing to do. I told him he needed to do what he wanted to do, but if he wanted the D he needed to file soon so we could both start our new lives over. He filed the next Monday.
mopar crazy Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 That is the difference right there. Only you know your H - would he have cheated on you if the problems you were having didn't exist? If he would not, then his A could have simply been a result of him feeling he needed an escape and took the most unfortunate way of doing so. A cakeman/woman will cheat regardless of whether or not there are problems. There can be no problems, and the cakeman/woman will still need that outside need filled. Honestly, LB I don't know. We were M for 11 years and in those 11 years we had some trying times. We really didn't have a good, or happy M (he was always gone out drinking w/ his friends, doesn't do that anymore). He had many women hit on him and flirt w/ him but he never had the A. And then when him and the exow started working closer 2gether at work then started to become attracted to one another so he decided to leave the M. He said, at the time, she was not the reason for the D (he didn't want me to know anything was going on between them, they were just friends) but when we got back 2gether he did admit she was part of the reason for the D. I was so stupid for allowing H to come over to the house and sleeping him. I was wrong for using sex to win him back. I felt so used the next day. Ya know that feeling when ya sleep w/ a guy and you wake up the next day thinking "WTH did I do?" That feeling of being used and hating yourself for not saying no when when you should have. I finally stopped having sex w/ him a couple of weeks b4 I moved away.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Ya know that feeling when ya sleep w/ a guy and you wake up the next day thinking "WTH did I do?" That feeling of being used and hating yourself for not saying no when when you should have. I know that feeling all too well.
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