Organic Relationship?

[MeganM2020]

Just now, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

You have to understand, when you come across more masculine than the dude you are trying to court, its very, very, very, very, very, very, very unattractive, like I can't emphasize this enough.

Organic means natural feminine and natural masculine energies. You are more masculine than the guy you are trying to date... Let me guess, he doesn't like sports, is not that competitive, does not chase after girls... If i describe your friend correctly, this is what it is.

actually, that is true, I love football, he doesnt.. lol

[Fox Sake]

9 minutes ago, MeganM2020 said:

Ok, I am super aware I am being totally obnoxious at this point, but I want to take your advice seriously... to you, he has feelings, but not enough, but still values me and doesnt want to lose me as a friend, and thinks things need to be more "organic" and is willing to move forward, if they will, on their own, without me spilling my heart to him all the time? Am I interpreting your advice correctly? lol In the end, they may or may not blossom, just not right now? 

You’re not being obnoxious at all ! Don’t be so hard on yourself! 
It’s clear you hold this guy dearly and you want him romantically in your life. 
You’re starting to get the idea tho, but you need to get to that point of indifference. 
I can’t help but feel with your current mindset you need to take some time apart from seeing each other outside of work to help you start to realise that. Not be holding on to the idea that somewhere down the line you’ll have him for sure , because no one knows the future. He is trying very hard to keep you as friend right now and see what happens on the future. It’s not organic because you’re pushing for it and he isn’t. He can’t for e romantic feeling for you and that’s where the whole organic thing comes in 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Fox Sake
Add some

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, MeganM2020 said:

I basically told him, you need to talk to me more, because thats what I want, or we need to just move on.. sounds selfish, but there was more to it

Is that how you worded it?   I hope not cause it's quite hard-nosed, imo. 

Comes off controlling and demanding and entitled.  

I think maybe that is what CAPS was talking about when he discussed  masculine and feminine energies complementing each other.

I'm all for expressing what you need but a softer approach might have served you better in this situation, the way you worded it sounded harsh and pressuring. 

Ultimatums like that rarely work either. 

May I ask why he needs to talk to you more?  To alleviate your anxiety or to feel more secure?  Not accusing just asking.

Edited July 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[d0nnivain]

3 minutes ago, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

Organic means natural feminine and natural masculine energies. You are more masculine than the guy you are trying to date... Let me guess, he doesn't like sports, is not that competitive, does not chase after girls... If i describe your friend correctly, this is what it is.

My husband doesn't like sports.  I am a rabid college football fan.  He doesn't chase girls.  He comes across as mild mannered & quiet.  From the outside people think I run roughshod over DH because I am the extrovert in a male dominated field & my communication style is basically in somebody's face.  Yet because he is so laid back he's happy to have me take the laboring oar.  However, he's one of the most secure strong men I have ever met.  When I went looking for him I had said to the universe, send me a man who is strong enough to let me be weak, which is tall order.  DH is a Marine veteran; his ambivalence about sports in no way impacts his masculinity.  

When traditional gender roles get reversed in a heterosexual relationship where both people identify as binary, if the man feels emasculated that will spell doom for the romance.  MeganM2020 this is where your directness did not serve you well in this situation.  There's an old saying:  the best way to catch a man is to let him chase you.   The fact that you are in the same industry certainly doesn't add to him being some sort of provider.  You can do what he can do.  That mindset cost me my grad school relationship because my BF at the time finally broke up with me  because he knew I would never be satisfied being a SAHM.  

[Lotsgoingon]

Let's cut through the clouds: this guy isn't into you. All that he likes you so much and can't define the feeling = the way a young guy tries to tell a woman he doesn't want to date her. And that's not going to change. 

And the brutal part is ... it's not good for a person in your position to continue being "friends" with this person. Trust me: I've tried it, millions of people around the world have tried it--doesn't work. You need to end the friendship because you're now in a trap.

The trap = you hang with him and feel good ... and you reignite your feelings of wanting more. And you'll run into the wall--the wall of his disinterest in romnce.

You hang with him and feel bad ... well that's the other side of the trap. It's no-win. Get out. The only possibly exception is if you're ready to date other people. If you can't talk to him about dating other people, then you and he are NOT friends. 

 

[Versacehottie]

Lots of great advice!  I do think you should distance yourself from him (just the professional stuff at work nothing else).  The reason why is right now he's the getting the benefits of feeling desired, pseudo relationship without the obligations of being in one, ego boost, all that ,while you get nothing  & not what you want.  Added that you are a girl being put in a friend zone makes it even more so IMO.  

I don't say never ever because I literally have a couple of very good friends who went through this with their now live in boyfriends.  Actually several more if I think of more distant friends. BUT and it's a big one, all of them when "rejected" the first go around, moved on at least that was the visual representation of it to the guy they were into.  You don't let them have it both ways, that's key for possible success and your sanity  

The two girls that I am the closest with also worked with the guys that are now their boyfriends.  Same as your situation.  They were their closest friends there and like best friends where everyone asked if they were dating constantly.  One girl was superior to the guy she liked and the other was more of a lateral position to the guy she liked.   

As far as no contact, these two handled it differently.  The one who was superior of the guy she liked acted easy breezy and no big deal; she backed off a little and stayed friendly with him but not the same level, dated other guys a little which he heard about,  Knowing them both so well a) it's her personality to be easy breezy and accept it & live her life which helped  b) i'm sure the "space" gave him the chance to figure out what he wanted.  He is pretty easy going as well.  I honestly think that happened because effectively she was his superior and he wanted to up his career a bit before he felt comfortable dating her.

The other friend, literally cut the guy off cold turkey.  As close to NC as you can be with still working together.  Lol, she is not easy breezy so I'm going to guess it was pretty chilly in their office!!  He came around in like days! I honestly think with both girls it went with their personalities how it played out and how they chose to handle it.  The one that is more hard-nosed cut it off--her guy probably knew if he didn't do something quick that would be it forever.  The one that is easygoing and same with her guy, that took a few months.  I think he knew because of her nature that she would at least listen to him when he figured his sh*t out, which was the best for their situation and he has literally told me that.

I do have a handful more of these success stories -- and to be honest, some ones that never worked out so I don't want to give you false hope.  The point is both girls in their own way let the guy "feel the pain" of not having his cake and eating it too (which none of them were hooking up in the off time and the harder girl never even had at all when she cut him off from dangling a relationship in front of her).  Your guy needs to "feel the pain" of not having you.  If only for the fact that by not continuing to invest in him you provide yourself with the best chance to come out of this in a good way.  Getting him because of equalizing things or using the time to move on.  If your guy said the things he said to you, I'd say he is already on the line and a harder nosed version would be best IMO lol.  You can't do this as a tactic to win him; that is just a happy byproduct if it does happen.  Put yourself first; allow some space so the guy can see what he actually wants without being on the spot or in an instarelationship.  You've kind of done all your can do with regards to communicating with him.

Good luck

Edited July 20, 2020 by Versacehottie

[Blind-Sided]

16 hours ago, MeganM2020 said:

I dont really feel that way..

.......Ive offered several times to just say, lets forget it, move on, and he never wants to do that...

Of course YOU don't feel that way... but @d0nnivain is absolutely right.  You put him on the spot, and he wasn't ready.  Some people will feel love in a very short time... some people take a long time to know or not.  Not to mention... by you simply talking about if he wants out... that puts doubt in his mind.  AND... combine the pressure of "Do you love me" with "Do you want out"... you have turned it into a black and white situation.  Pure "Yes or No" with no middle ground.  TO be honest... it's kind of a s***ty situation to be in. (From a guy's perspective)  You have basically said... "Love me, or leave."   

OK... to be blunt, and 100% honest... you need to look into yourself and figure out why you need it to be that way. 

So... is he a nice guy?  does he treat you well?  Do you want him to be part of your life?   If yes... then take a step back, and see where it goes.  A year is a short time in a life. 

[Wiseman2]

He's pumping the brakes because he is not as invested as you are.

[MeganM2020]

15 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Is that how you worded it?   I hope not cause it's quite hard-nosed, imo. 

Comes off controlling and demanding and entitled.  

I think maybe that is what CAPS was talking about when he discussed  masculine and feminine energies complementing each other.

I'm all for expressing what you need but a softer approach might have served you better in this situation, the way you worded it sounded harsh and pressuring. 

Ultimatums like that rarely work either. 

May I ask why he needs to talk to you more?  To alleviate your anxiety or to feel more secure?  Not accusing just asking.

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

[MeganM2020]

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

[MeganM2020]

14 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Lots of great advice!  I do think you should distance yourself from him (just the professional stuff at work nothing else).  The reason why is right now he's the getting the benefits of feeling desired, pseudo relationship without the obligations of being in one, ego boost, all that ,while you get nothing  & not what you want.  Added that you are a girl being put in a friend zone makes it even more so IMO.  

I don't say never ever because I literally have a couple of very good friends who went through this with their now live in boyfriends.  Actually several more if I think of more distant friends. BUT and it's a big one, all of them when "rejected" the first go around, moved on at least that was the visual representation of it to the guy they were into.  You don't let them have it both ways, that's key for possible success and your sanity  

The two girls that I am the closest with also worked with the guys that are now their boyfriends.  Same as your situation.  They were their closest friends there and like best friends where everyone asked if they were dating constantly.  One girl was superior to the guy she liked and the other was more of a lateral position to the guy she liked.   

As far as no contact, these two handled it differently.  The one who was superior of the guy she liked acted easy breezy and no big deal; she backed off a little and stayed friendly with him but not the same level, dated other guys a little which he heard about,  Knowing them both so well a) it's her personality to be easy breezy and accept it & live her life which helped  b) i'm sure the "space" gave him the chance to figure out what he wanted.  He is pretty easy going as well.  I honestly think that happened because effectively she was his superior and he wanted to up his career a bit before he felt comfortable dating her.

The other friend, literally cut the guy off cold turkey.  As close to NC as you can be with still working together.  Lol, she is not easy breezy so I'm going to guess it was pretty chilly in their office!!  He came around in like days! I honestly think with both girls it went with their personalities how it played out and how they chose to handle it.  The one that is more hard-nosed cut it off--her guy probably knew if he didn't do something quick that would be it forever.  The one that is easygoing and same with her guy, that took a few months.  I think he knew because of her nature that she would at least listen to him when he figured his sh*t out, which was the best for their situation and he has literally told me that.

I do have a handful more of these success stories -- and to be honest, some ones that never worked out so I don't want to give you false hope.  The point is both girls in their own way let the guy "feel the pain" of not having his cake and eating it too (which none of them were hooking up in the off time and the harder girl never even had at all when she cut him off from dangling a relationship in front of her).  Your guy needs to "feel the pain" of not having you.  If only for the fact that by not continuing to invest in him you provide yourself with the best chance to come out of this in a good way.  Getting him because of equalizing things or using the time to move on.  If your guy said the things he said to you, I'd say he is already on the line and a harder nosed version would be best IMO lol.  You can't do this as a tactic to win him; that is just a happy byproduct if it does happen.  Put yourself first; allow some space so the guy can see what he actually wants without being on the spot or in an instarelationship.  You've kind of done all your can do with regards to communicating with him.

Good luck

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

[MeganM2020]

37 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said:

Of course YOU don't feel that way... but @d0nnivain is absolutely right.  You put him on the spot, and he wasn't ready.  Some people will feel love in a very short time... some people take a long time to know or not.  Not to mention... by you simply talking about if he wants out... that puts doubt in his mind.  AND... combine the pressure of "Do you love me" with "Do you want out"... you have turned it into a black and white situation.  Pure "Yes or No" with no middle ground.  TO be honest... it's kind of a s***ty situation to be in. (From a guy's perspective)  You have basically said... "Love me, or leave."   

OK... to be blunt, and 100% honest... you need to look into yourself and figure out why you need it to be that way. 

So... is he a nice guy?  does he treat you well?  Do you want him to be part of your life?   If yes... then take a step back, and see where it goes.  A year is a short time in a life. 

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

[MeganM2020]

14 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Let's cut through the clouds: this guy isn't into you. All that he likes you so much and can't define the feeling = the way a young guy tries to tell a woman he doesn't want to date her. And that's not going to change. 

And the brutal part is ... it's not good for a person in your position to continue being "friends" with this person. Trust me: I've tried it, millions of people around the world have tried it--doesn't work. You need to end the friendship because you're now in a trap.

The trap = you hang with him and feel good ... and you reignite your feelings of wanting more. And you'll run into the wall--the wall of his disinterest in romnce.

You hang with him and feel bad ... well that's the other side of the trap. It's no-win. Get out. The only possibly exception is if you're ready to date other people. If you can't talk to him about dating other people, then you and he are NOT friends. 

 

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

[MeganM2020]

15 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

My husband doesn't like sports.  I am a rabid college football fan.  He doesn't chase girls.  He comes across as mild mannered & quiet.  From the outside people think I run roughshod over DH because I am the extrovert in a male dominated field & my communication style is basically in somebody's face.  Yet because he is so laid back he's happy to have me take the laboring oar.  However, he's one of the most secure strong men I have ever met.  When I went looking for him I had said to the universe, send me a man who is strong enough to let me be weak, which is tall order.  DH is a Marine veteran; his ambivalence about sports in no way impacts his masculinity.  

When traditional gender roles get reversed in a heterosexual relationship where both people identify as binary, if the man feels emasculated that will spell doom for the romance.  MeganM2020 this is where your directness did not serve you well in this situation.  There's an old saying:  the best way to catch a man is to let him chase you.   The fact that you are in the same industry certainly doesn't add to him being some sort of provider.  You can do what he can do.  That mindset cost me my grad school relationship because my BF at the time finally broke up with me  because he knew I would never be satisfied being a SAHM.  

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

[MeganM2020]

By the way, I am not sure if I am doing this right, I have been "quoting" all of you, I assume that lets you know I responded... Sorry, if this is wrong, or annoying lol

[Velvet teddy]

17 hours ago, MeganM2020 said:

Thanks, that was helpful. I really go back and forth with this guy. I care about him alot, I honestly feel like I ask more of him to treat me as if I was his gf, when Im not.. so Ive apologized for having such high expectations, but we go back and forth with this for over a year. I feel if we were in the situation where we could be together, we would and it'd be fine, I wouldnt have to be here, but since we cant I feel as if I pull everything apart and overthink. I just get stuck on where he says the things that makes me feel like he wants to be where we are.. because he doesnt want to take the "out" and he wants to "try harder", so to me, I get confused because it's like, why say that, if you dont want to.. and he definately would just tell me hes over it.. I know him.. lol he doesnt hold back, so I just dont know what to do anymore. 

Actions over words every time. 

Its been over a year? Thats a long time. 

If he wanted to be with you ( sorry to say this ) but he would be by now.

My advice is to let go of the situation and him. 

Its a waste of your time to keep going back and forth and to over analyse everything. I just read your previous post, all the insignificant things hes coming out with. Sounds like he enjoys confusing you and keeping you there.

Seriously let him go!

Edited July 21, 2020 by Velvet teddy

[d0nnivain]

You don't have to quote every post you respond to.  You can also edit the quotes to only the parts you are addressing.  

Once somebody posts in a thread, the system tells that person that there are new posts. 

You have put your cards on the table.  He sputtered & backed off.  Since you are OK with friends, do nothing.  Be friendly at work.  Respond if he calls you but leave the ball firmly in his court

[MeganM2020]

OK, thanks for all the great advice. I can keep hoping to hear what I want to hear all day, but truth is, I think it comes down to what you said @d0nnivain, the ball is in his court. If he wants to call me and keep a relationship, he will, but I cant force it. Do you think I can recover from what everyone seems to think I did wrong by just backing off?

[d0nnivain]

I do.  I have.  

It's a version of "fake it 'til you make it'.  Just act like you never said anything 

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, MeganM2020 said:

Its really not, I mean, I was just giving the the shortest amount of information possible. We have a long history, hes told me so many times, without my prompting he cares alot about me, it scares him, he wanted to back off, then continues talking to me and essentially says im like a drug, so I look back at history and think, is it the same now? I want to talk to him more because Im not sure to be honest. I think because I feel like he only thinks about me when he sees me or if I call him (which  he calls me occasionally right at 8am when hes heading into work. We work together, different buildings. He says, I just want you to see I am calling you first.. type of thing, so I guess when I have had suggestions here so far that state hes not into me, I get it I really do, and I am not crazy or delusional.. just I see it a bit different. I think if he wasnt interested, hed shut me down, BUT I am on the fence of the ego boost, which is where I get confused, because thats what questions how I should handle that situation, if no initiating contact would tell me if thats all I am to him, or if it wouldnt. I just dont know what I need to do anymore. I am good with being great friends, and seeing what the future holds, but at this point, im not sure if thats what he meant. He literally said, no I dont want to move on, I want to try harder to be a better friend to you, you are better to me than I deserve, and I want it to be organic. 

Ummm, but he's not actually changing the status quo, is he?  That means the status quo works for him.  And it doesn't for you.  So IMO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW.

You won't get anything different from him doing things the same.  

and of course it's an ego boost.  I would speculate that you get the call on the way to work cause you are his "work wife" in a way.  That's where he is headed therefore that is where he puts his focus at 8am on the way toward his day and flirting that may come with it.  He tells you that he cares for you and all that but he doesn't do anything to change it to make you his girlfriend. I agree with the others that you went about it wrong telling him you wanted to be with him and all that but that cat is out of the bag so you can only ADJUST PERCEPTION by acting AS IF he lost his chance or you got caught up in the moment....and are over it now

Listen, you are jumping to the end but failing to look at what you are getting now.  Do I agree with you that there must be something "there" for him to say and do the things he does? Yes.  Is doing what you've been doing going to be the catalyst to take things with you to the next level? Not at all.  He is getting everything he wants and you aren't.  Law of supply and demand.  Make yourself scarce.  I think you are right that he only thinks about you when it's part of his morning routine or when it serves him; he goes with it when you chase him down cause he likes you on some level and it's flattering to him.  You are thinking if you try harder or do the right things you will get what you want from him.  That's not usually how this works.  It's like a human behavior pattern--that if you stop trying or pull way back you correct the dynamic and test his real feelings.  You didn't give him space to come after you when you told him you'd like to be together so now he's devaluing you and he still doesn't have the space to figure that out.  If you take his word, he wants it to be organic sooooo you forcing it is the opposite of that.  If you believe like most on the thread do that he is just paying you lip service while stringing you along, then ALSO the answer for what you should do is take space.

There is a theory in psychology of working on communication vs doing what you need to do to get what you want.  I think in this case dealing with the "communication" part is over.  You know enough and you are NOT in a romantic relationship even if there a few elements of that here and there so no more trying to bridge things with communication IMO.  You need to switch to the "doing what you need to do to get what you want"--the goal-outcome avenue of YOUR romantic life.  In that case, that means you stop trying to work on the things for the "good" of it for the two of you in the shorter term, which is what I believe you think you are doing and you become more self-focused on your outcome, which should be (and I think it ultimately is) to have a happy healthy reciprocal romantic relationship with a great guy.  It serves a dual purpose to change to this goal (vs the communication one) because putting yourself first usually causes people around you or who've been taking you for granted to wake up!  You also will project better energy to other potential guys for you.  I don't know how they know but when other guys are trying interested in you (even if your crush doesn't know at all) somehow they sniff it out.  I suspect in part it's because you would have the aura of POSSIBILITIES which is evident in your body language, non-verbal communication and word choice.  You have the added benefit that you work with him so he will see this.  Nothing is a guarantee and the hope is that you will switch to caring about being with him to just wanting a great guy.  If it's him because he sees the error of his ways and steps up, great.  But you are not hanging out there just waiting.  The waiting btw is exactly why you are in this scenario.  Pull the rug out from underneath him.  Stop looking for his reasons and reading into his excuses.  They are just excuses btw.  He is not changing what you two are to each other.  they are excuses and stalling tactics.  

If you've asked to be with him and he basically shut you down, aren't you embarrassed or pissed or humiliated even a little?  I'm not saying he didn't lead you here but then he's acting on one hand like you pulled it out of thin air--all the while keeps giving you little breadcrumbs and you are eating them up!  I think you need a come to Jesus about what this will do to your value in his eyes.  If you've been rejected, hanging in there trying to make it happen and hanging onto to his coattails, devalues you---it will have the opposite effect that you want.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Versacehottie

[MeganM2020]

12 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

 

Listen, you are jumping to the end but failing to look at what you are getting now.  Do I agree with you that there must be something "there" for him to say and do the things he does? Yes.  Is doing what you've been doing going to be the catalyst to take things with you to the next level? Not at all.  He is getting everything he wants and you aren't.  Law of supply and demand.  Make yourself scarce.  I think you are right that he only thinks about you when it's part of his morning routine or when it serves him; he goes with it when you chase him down cause he likes you on some level and it's flattering to him.  You are thinking if you try harder or do the right things you will get what you want from him.  That's not usually how this works.  It's like a human behavior pattern--that if you stop trying or pull way back you correct the dynamic and test his real feelings.  You didn't give him space to come after you when you told him you'd like to be together so now he's devaluing you and he still doesn't have the space to figure that out.  If you take his word, he wants it to be organic sooooo you forcing it is the opposite of that.  If you believe like most on the thread do that he is just paying you lip service while stringing you along, then ALSO the answer for what you should do is take space.

Thank you so much for this very paragraph. I think you are right, In hindsight, I do try harder and I do invest more of my time and thoughts than he does to me, so youre right. I should just stop calling him, try to learn to live without his friendship and see what happens. Ive actually wanted this very thing, but Ive invested so much for over a year, it feels hard to let go. And when I do stop calling him, within a few days, I get a call to talk, or a call to just ask a pretty dumb work related legal question, even though he's law enforcement, so Im not dumb, but those are the times I give in, because then it leads me to believe he is trying.. and if I just dont answer his calls, i feel like a b****. I guess at this point, I dont know how to be "organic" unless its just letting him do the chasing now. Once, during one of our conversations of why I always have to do the damn initiating calls, and making me feel like hes being obligated.. he said, I know if I want to talk and I wait, you will call me.  stupid huh?

Edited July 21, 2020 by MeganM2020
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[Velvet teddy]

4 minutes ago, MeganM2020 said:

Thank you so much for this very paragraph. I think you are right, In hindsight, I do try harder and I do invest more of my time and thoughts than he does to me, so youre right. I should just stop calling him, try to learn to live without his friendship and see what happens. Ive actually wanted this very thing, but Ive invested so much for over a year, it feels hard to let go. And when I do stop calling him, within a few days, I get a call to talk, or a call to just ask a pretty dumb work related legal question, even though he's law enforcement, so Im not dumb, but those are the times I give in, because then it leads me to believe he is trying.. and if I just dont answer his calls, i feel like a b****. I guess at this point, I dont know how to be "organic" unless its just letting him do the chasing now. Once, during one of our conversations of why I always have to do the damn initiating calls, and making me feel like hes being obligated.. he said, I know if I want to talk and I wait, you will call me.  stupid huh?

He doesn't make the effort because  you do everything. 

Fall back. Then see. And if he doesn't  step up, leave it alone.

How long can you go on like this?

Surely you want to have something long term at some point. This thing with him is simply stalling that.

[MeganM2020]

1 minute ago, Velvet teddy said:

He doesn't make the effort because  you do everything. 

Fall back. Then see. And if he doesn't  step up, leave it alone.

How long can you go on like this?

Surely you want to have something long term at some point. This thing with him is simply stalling that.

I do, and if it isnt him, it isnt him, but again, my roadblock is how to deal with letting go of someone you put time into.. make sense?

[Mystery4u]

Are you both sleeping with each other?

[MeganM2020]

7 minutes ago, Mystery4u said:

Are you both sleeping with each other?

No, we have been sexual on a couple of occasions, and we've had multiple opportunities, but he has said as much as he wants to, he's afraid his feelings would get too strong again.. which is the reason for the flakyness at the beginning of our friendship. It's pretty much settled now, the main thing I complain about is why I always have to call him. AND AGAIN, this is why I get confused, because I dont feel he is "using" me, or we'd be sleeping together now, lol but he is afraid of his feelings.. or so he says.. who know.

Edited July 21, 2020 by MeganM2020
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