Caught him on dating app

[JRabbit]

Is this really a healthy start to a relationship? Lies, uncertainty, secrets, the unkown?

Already all this drama and you weren't even exclusive yet. Thats a big red flag slapping you in the face. It is one thing to recognize red flags, you must be able to act on them.

[kendahke]

7 hours ago, lovesfool said:

To appreciate what he has when he's dating someone.

He's already shown you that he's got nothing for you in that arena. If he did, this whole thread wouldn't be here and you and he would have been living that relationship life 3 months ago with you being under no illusions or doubts as to how he feels about you. 

His behavior and actions towards you would have told you point blank and plainly if he had any appreciation for you.

Instead, what he told you was:
 

Quote

 he was having doubts if the relationship could work because of the distance.

He said his head is in a funny place right now and that he really likes me, but is just unsure if it'll work out.

yesterday I see him on it again and know he is actively talking to girls on it.

Quote

he tells me he is having doubts about the long distance and how it would work in the long-term.

he's not sure what to think ever since I raised the long-distance question.

He said he needs time to think

Quote

I know he's upset about the breakup and I hope that he sees he was in the wrong.

I'll bet he's not so upset that he's stopped posting pics of himself on social media and creating a new profile that you can't find in order to chase local girls.

Why would he see he's in the wrong?  He's not in a committed relationship with anyone. Certainly not with someone he's only seen one a month for the last 4 months. He's a free agent who can do as he pleases--no one's going to check him.  You're the one who thinks you're in a committed relationship, not him.  His behavior is showing you that.

Edited July 22, 2020 by kendahke

[lovesfool]

It's clear that everyone here is saying the same thing and you're all correct. I know I am clinging onto hope where there is none. If even one reply said "well it might work out" I would have clung onto that for dear life. I go through this every time I end things with someone. I think about things so much that I can't see the forest for the trees. Picking on small details that I think mean more than they actually do.

I knew I would be going through this, and sorry for sounding so stupid.

I went for a walk this evening and just started to think about it from an outside perspective (things you've all been telling me for a while). He wasn't as invested in dating as I was. He considered the long distance to be an issue when it wasn't even a thought in my mind. He was on dating apps and actively talking to (and who knows, even meeting) girls. He lied about being on the dating app.

What really stuck with me today that it's been two days and he never even acknowledged he lied, in the wrong or even apologised. In the very highly likely situation where he was telling the truth, surely he would have tried his hardest to convince me otherwise, but he has given up. I know if I did someone wrong and cared about them I would stop at nothing to let them know I wanted to make it work somehow.

It's anyone's guess why he behaved the way he did. He put in the time (4 months!) to talk to me, get to know me, travel long distance to see me, say how much he liked me, tell his friends and family about me. His behaviour goes completely against all of this. It's clear he has some issues and unfortunately I can't fix them.

I still have some feelings for him which I can't help, but I guess it will just take time for me to get over him. I've been through this hurt before, I know I can come out the other side.

[stillafool]

10 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

He put in the time (4 months!) to talk to me, get to know me, travel long distance to see me, say how much he liked me, tell his friends and family about me. His behaviour goes completely against all of this. It's clear he has some issues and unfortunately I can't fix them.

He may have only seen this as a fling which a lot of guys do with girls.  They hang around for a few months (if sex is included), get bored, distracted or start checking out other girls, and move on to someone else.  They still think you're nice but they know they don't want a relationship with you.

[balletomane]

1 hour ago, lovesfool said:

It's clear that everyone here is saying the same thing and you're all correct. I know I am clinging onto hope where there is none. If even one reply said "well it might work out" I would have clung onto that for dear life. I go through this every time I end things with someone. I think about things so much that I can't see the forest for the trees. Picking on small details that I think mean more than they actually do.

It's good that you're starting to think about how this situation fits into a broader pattern. Now that you've identified overanalyzing and obsessive thinking as a recurrent problem, you're in a position to start making positive changes for yourself.

Quote

 

I went for a walk this evening and just started to think about it from an outside perspective (things you've all been telling me for a while). He wasn't as invested in dating as I was. He considered the long distance to be an issue when it wasn't even a thought in my mind. He was on dating apps and actively talking to (and who knows, even meeting) girls. He lied about being on the dating app...

It's anyone's guess why he behaved the way he did. He put in the time (4 months!) to talk to me, get to know me, travel long distance to see me, say how much he liked me, tell his friends and family about me. His behaviour goes completely against all of this. It's clear he has some issues and unfortunately I can't fix them.

 

You're sliding away from the outside perspective here and trying to make his behaviour fit into your narrative. You view four months as a long time. Most people would see it as a short time. During that period, he only met you four times. You've probably spent more hours thinking about him and daydreaming about your imagined future together than you actually spent in his company, yet you're interpreting those four dates as a sign that he was keen to plan a future with you. They weren't. They were an indicator that he'd like to get to know you better. You took that to mean you were in an established relationship.

Two, these four dates took place during a pandemic, when everyone's social opportunities have been curtailed and many of us have been feeling cooped up and desperate for a change of scene. In these circumstances it's unsurprising that people would be happy to spend more time talking over long distance than they ordinarily would. This wasn't a special effort on his part. Nor was the travelling, because it was an occasional rather than a regular thing.

Three, him telling his family about you doesn't mean he was describing the ring he planned to buy. He could have said, "I went to X town to meet a woman I've had a few video dates with. She seems cool," or something equally matter-of-fact. My boyfriend is quite close to his family and he used to let them know if he'd been on any dates and how they'd gone in their weekly WhatsApp calls. It didn't mean he was planning to pop the question anytime soon.

The only "issue" here is that you and he were on different pages. You can't seem to grasp that him not seeing things the way you see them doesn't mean he has problems. The one thing he did that is objectively wrong is to lie about being on the dating app, but looking at it objectively, you lied too. You set up a fake persona to message him. If you came across to him as clingy and melodramatic, he may have decided that a lie would be the best way to diffuse the situation. I am not saying that's right, just that we all have ways of justifying our bad choices to ourselves, and it's not necessarily a sign of some deep-seated problem.

When you catch yourself analysing his behaviour and speculating on why he acted the way he did, remind yourself, "I can't control what other people do. I can control my own choices," and do something positive to distract yourself.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by balletomane

[lovesfool]

11 minutes ago, balletomane said:

You're sliding away from the outside perspective here and trying to make his behaviour fit into your narrative. You view four months as a long time. Most people would see it as a short time. During that period, he only met you four times. You've probably spent more hours thinking about him and daydreaming about your imagined future together than you actually spent in his company, yet you're interpreting those four dates as a sign that he was keen to plan a future with you. They weren't. They were an indicator that he'd like to get to know you better. You took that to mean you were in an established relationship.

It's true, I do see 4 months as a long time. Unfortunately it is the 2nd longest length of time I've been seeing someone in my life. I can't help it when I think things are going well that I get hopeful. I'm so pessimistic about dating at the best of times.

11 minutes ago, balletomane said:

Two, these four dates took place during a pandemic, when everyone's social opportunities have been curtailed and many of us have been feeling cooped up and desperate for a change of scene. In these circumstances it's unsurprising that people would be happy to spend more time talking over long distance than they ordinarily would. This wasn't a special effort on his part. Nor was the travelling, because it was an occasional rather than a regular thing.

 Maybe you're right, but I figured that it would have gotten stale after a couple of dates and it didn't for either of us. After the Covid restrictions were lifted he would have been free to date a local. Maybe that's his plan now that I've seen him on the app.

11 minutes ago, balletomane said:

Three, him telling his family about you doesn't mean he was describing the ring he planned to buy. He could have said, "I went to X town to meet a woman I've had a few video dates with. She seems cool," or something equally matter-of-fact. My boyfriend is quite close to his family and he used to let them know if he'd been on any dates and how they'd gone in their weekly WhatsApp calls. It didn't mean he was planning to pop the question anytime soon.

That may also be true. Maybe he has different views on it. For me telling friends and family is a big step. I remember a guy I was dating before introduced me to his friends after a couple of weeks and I thought it was a big step, but not for him.

11 minutes ago, balletomane said:

The only "issue" here is that you and he were on different pages. You can't seem to grasp that him not seeing things the way you see them doesn't mean he has problems. The one thing he did that is objectively wrong is to lie about being on the dating app, but looking at it objectively, you lied too. You set up a fake persona to message him. If you came across to him as clingy and melodramatic, he may have decided that a lie would be the best way to diffuse the situation. I am not saying that's right, just that we all have ways of justifying our bad choices to ourselves, and it's not necessarily a sign of some deep-seated problem.

I know going on the app was wrong, but I couldn't help it. It was so easy to just do a quick check to ease my mind, but it did the exact opposite. Messaging him was a step too far. I wish I hadn't because I could have kept that "ignorance is bliss" in my mind that he wasn't talking to anyone. But it was like a loose thread that I couldn't stop pulling at until it unravelled.

In the future, if I have my doubts, what should I do? If I took his word and he changed his attitude and was more proactive, he could have still been on dating apps and I would never know. I know relationships require trust, but I'm confident there are many trusting women with cheating boyfriends / husbands.

 

[kendahke]

54 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

In the future, if I have my doubts, what should I do?

1.  Never expect devotion out of anyone who has not declared to you plainly and clearly that they want to be in a committed, exclusive relationship with you.

2.  Never live out any interaction in your head.

3.  Never allow yourself to believe the lie that what you're thinking, they're thinking the exact same thing. It's nice when it happens, but never expect that that is always the case.

4. Never assume that what you want, surely they must want, also.

5. Never be afraid to walk away from someone whose behavior makes you feel uncomfortable.

6.  Always maintain your grace.  Unless you're in acting class, keep the dramatics to yourself. Don't cast your dignity in the street before any male trying to keep them... aka don't cast pearls before swine (the same goes for males with problematic girlfriends/love interests)

7.  You must have in person interaction on a consistent basis to ascertain if you are compatible with someone. You cannot live out a relationship on cell phones and apps  with someone you barely spend any consistent in-person time with.  That will not work--you have to have already established a long term, in person experience with them.

8.  Not everyone has strong self discipline. Many people feel they have a "right" to attention and if you're not close by enough to give it on a consistent basis, they're going to go find it elsewhere, despite you being in their life or how it makes you feel.  Those kinds of people give lip service to honoring your feelings.

9. You can't sex a man into a relationship he has no interest in being in. He'll take the sex and keep it moving.

10. Expectations are future resentments under construction. Keep a tight grip on the leash of your expectations.

Let me know if there's anything else to add to the list.

Edited July 22, 2020 by kendahke

[Versacehottie]

I think one thing that would help OP to add to the list is that she/a person cannot filter what they would do in a certain situation and assume that someone else would do the same thing...or that if they DO the same thing that it means the same thing to them as it does to you.

For example, some people introduce/tell their family about whoever they are dating like they are talking about the weather.  Others may even be in love and haven't mentioned a word to their family.  Another example is you think 4 months is a long time (really only because you haven't lasted that long with anyone else which is a poor measuring tool because it's not a measure of what is long in GENERAL but what is long for you and there is a difference)---so for him/another person 4 months time is barely beginning or perhaps more the average just a general "starting to date".  So you have to realize people have different filters of perception.  Also you are measuring this in calendar time and i can almost guarantee he is measuring it in terms of dates! Which 4 dates is as close to the beginning and very non-stable as it gets pretty much...like dating can go either way at this point and is very fragile.  YOu've chosen to filter it through calendar time of 4 months to prove it was more meaningful than perhaps it was.  And he may have chosen to filter it through the number of dates, ie 4 dates, to downplay the seriousness of this relationship.  Another way to look at this (another perspective) is that without total restriction, which it sounds like was not the problem, over a period of 4 months he ONLY chose to see you 4 times.  Again you focus on 4 months like it was a long time when in reality over a long calendar time frame, he chose to see you very LITTLE relative to the period of time that passed.

Lastly, you filter what you are thinking and believing through a lot of "shoulds".  Like it should be this way or it should be that way.  Generally that's not a great thing to do but it you DO do it, you need to factor in a variety of perspectives not just your own. That will get you to a clearer and more realistic "should" zone.  Right now I get the feeling you swing between unrealistic and unreasonable "should" world all the way to a very poor and porous boundary where you find everything acceptable even when it actually isn't because you are so desperate to keep this guy or a guy. 

I have to be honest.  I would feel a little differently for you plight if you spent more time saying that you really liked xyz about this guy and truly believed that he was sooo special and you had charming little stories about him.  The overriding theme I keep hearing you say when you are disappointed that it didn't work out and that it's not fair that it didn't, is that dating is too hard for you---lots of excuses.  It's all fear based: that you will never meet anyone, you don't like anyone in your area, this is the longest relationship at 4 months, it's been 7 years.  it's kind of pathetic. Those are not great reasons for someone to want to be with you,   It's not about this guy really--it's about your problem dating.  That's the least attractive reason for some worthy guy to want to date you.  I really hope you work on that.  I liked your post after your walk--2nd to last one.  That was the least anxious one and rooted in reality.  Try to work from there. Good luck

[lovesfool]

 

39 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

For example, some people introduce/tell their family about whoever they are dating like they are talking about the weather.  Others may even be in love and haven't mentioned a word to their family.  Another example is you think 4 months is a long time (really only because you haven't lasted that long with anyone else which is a poor measuring tool because it's not a measure of what is long in GENERAL but what is long for you and there is a difference)---so for him/another person 4 months time is barely beginning or perhaps more the average just a general "starting to date".  So you have to realize people have different filters of perception.  Also you are measuring this in calendar time and i can almost guarantee he is measuring it in terms of dates! Which 4 dates is as close to the beginning and very non-stable as it gets pretty much...like dating can go either way at this point and is very fragile.  YOu've chosen to filter it through calendar time of 4 months to prove it was more meaningful than perhaps it was.  And he may have chosen to filter it through the number of dates, ie 4 dates, to downplay the seriousness of this relationship.  Another way to look at this (another perspective) is that without total restriction, which it sounds like was not the problem, over a period of 4 months he ONLY chose to see you 4 times.  Again you focus on 4 months like it was a long time when in reality over a long calendar time frame, he chose to see you very LITTLE relative to the period of time that passed.

It seems like I'm being fooled by what guys tell me - that they care about me, that they want to spend time with me, that they find me attractive, that they want to take it to the next level etc. Maybe I've been silly in thinking that they're telling the truth as I saw no other reason for them to string me along and constantly give me attention. Maybe as you say, these things mean something different to me than someone else.

I guess I get invested too soon. Maybe if I had relaxed a little bit more and considered 4 dates as something casual I wouldn't have been so concerned about him possibly dating someone else. If it was a normal situation and it was 4 dates over a 2 week period I probably wouldn't have reacted in the same way. If it was 4 months and 20 dates it would be a different story I guess. It may also be partly due to little else going on in my life at the moment due to Covid and he was my focus and all I had to look forward to.

39 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

Lastly, you filter what you are thinking and believing through a lot of "shoulds".  Like it should be this way or it should be that way.  Generally that's not a great thing to do but it you DO do it, you need to factor in a variety of perspectives not just your own. That will get you to a clearer and more realistic "should" zone.  Right now I get the feeling you swing between unrealistic and unreasonable "should" world all the way to a very poor and porous boundary where you find everything acceptable even when it actually isn't because you are so desperate to keep this guy or a guy. 

  I'm not sure what you mean. Is that not what everyone is doing? "If a guy is really into you he should be doing BLANK" or "would never do BLANK". Maybe that's what you're saying, that I should listen to other people more? I have spoken to my friends and they have given me some advice different to this forum, but maybe they're just trying to be nice to me and not upset me more.

Maybe my standards for meeting a guy are so high that when I eventually do find one that ticks all the boxes that I overlook his faults because it was so hard to get here in the first place. You would not believe how picky I am when it comes to dating men. It largely comes down to initial attraction, and I'm not physically attracted to that many men. If I am luck in finding someone that is attractive, and they turn out to be smart and funny and can hold a conversation I'm usually sold, but that happens so very rarely for me.

39 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

I have to be honest.  I would feel a little differently for you plight if you spent more time saying that you really liked xyz about this guy and truly believed that he was sooo special and you had charming little stories about him.  The overriding theme I keep hearing you say when you are disappointed that it didn't work out and that it's not fair that it didn't, is that dating is too hard for you---lots of excuses.  It's all fear based: that you will never meet anyone, you don't like anyone in your area, this is the longest relationship at 4 months, it's been 7 years.  it's kind of pathetic. Those are not great reasons for someone to want to be with you,   It's not about this guy really--it's about your problem dating.  That's the least attractive reason for some worthy guy to want to date you.  I really hope you work on that.  I liked your post after your walk--2nd to last one.  That was the least anxious one and rooted in reality.  Try to work from there. Good luck

  I'm not good at expressing myself emotionally, so my feelings for him may not have come across very well here. I could tell you about the long walks in the parks we had, his funny laugh when I tell a bad joke, how he cuddled up to me when we were watching movies on the sofa, his pure happiness and positivity. I could go on, but even typing that out has gotten me a little bit upset.

Yes, I'm frustrated that my dating life has been unsuccessful, and it may have come across as the main reason why I want this to work. But the reality is that I cared for him. I looked forward to seeing him. I lit up every time I saw a message from him. He may have been the guy I've felt most strongly about. That's why I wanted it to work.

Thanks for calling me pathetic though. It's not like I told him I was desperate to find someone because of my less than successful dating life, but you seem to think that that's a reason guys wouldn't date me.

[Acacia98]

15 hours ago, balletomane said:

At first I did have regrets. I had been in an abusive relationship that left me with PTSD, and I couldn't date for four years after I left my abuser. I just wasn't well enough. Then I met this new man through a close friend, we became friends in our own right (or so I thought), and he asked me on a date. I told him I wasn't in a frame of mind to date, and explained the reasons. Nine months later he asked me again. I agreed, as I had begun to develop some feelings for him, and I thought it was touching that he'd waited nine months for me. Surely this was a sign that he was really interested?

He dumped me out of the blue after barely five weeks - but not before he'd invited me to accompany him on an overseas trip to meet his family and I'd bought the plane ticket. He'd been so eager for me to go with him. I'd just started to relax and feel as if I'd found someone safe, dependable, and trustworthy who really wanted me around, and the break-up blindsided me. As I said, I made all kinds of excuses and rationalisations for his behaviour, and at first I agreed to his request to stay friends even though people in my life were telling me to just go no contact. The rejection hurt a lot, as I'd taken a risk in trying a new relationship. But over time I realised that the experience had been a valuable one, and I don't regret it any more. With the support of my therapist, I discovered these things:

1.) My self-confidence was still too low. I'd been attracted to this man mostly because he had seemed patient and willing to wait while I worked through my PTSD. I thought that it was unlikely I would find a man who could tolerate my difficulties. But my question should never have been "Who will tolerate me?" but "Who do I want to be with?" I'm not a burden, but without realising it, I'd been seeing myself as one.

2.) My expectations were too low. I was relieved to find that this man wasn't physically violent and didn't lash out with unpredictable rages and cruel comments, and that relief blossomed into a sense that he was a wonderful person. But as a friend pointed out, having "Not an abuser" as my main selection criterion was setting a spectacularly low bar. I realised that this way of thinking showed I was still expecting abusive treatment as my norm, so I thought I was in paradise when a boyfriend treated me with basic decency and that he must be some kind of angel. Not true.

3.) I was still behaving passively and as though I had limited choices. I realised I didn't have to wait around for a man to come along and want to be with me. If I wanted to, I could go looking myself. I joined Bumble, as this seemed like an empowering app for a woman in PTSD recovery - I had control over who could and couldn't message me. I knew that it would be unwise to start thinking about the future from the start of dating; that had been my mistake with the recent ex. On my first Bumble date, my only goal was to have fun conversation and a nice dinner with someone who seemed interesting. I told myself that even if he didn't want a second date and I did, I would have been successful in confronting my anxieties, so whatever happened it was a win. Approaching the date with this attitude made a very positive difference.

If I hadn't had that unpleasant rejection, these discoveries would have been unlikely. I would probably never have joined a dating app, and I would almost certainly have never met my boyfriend - and even if I had, I wouldn't have been self-assured enough for a relationship. If you treat each painful situation as a learning opportunity, some good will come of it.

If you hadn't already been questioning his commitment to you, you wouldn't have checked the app. That's something people only do if they're already feeling mistrustful or having doubts.

This post really truck a chord.

@lovesfool, I've been sensing that most of us were getting it wrong in our advice to you by focusing on you and the guy and trying to show you why it wouldn't work. I think it would have been more useful to focus on the fact that you were in the wrong frame of mind to be dating anyone. You really should take a break from dating and the associated anxieties. Take time to focus on yourself and to address your insecurities and fears. I think this particular post by @balletomane would be especially helpful.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

55 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

I could tell you about the long walks in the parks we had, his funny laugh when I tell a bad joke, how he cuddled up to me when we were watching movies on the sofa, his pure happiness and positivity. I could go on, but even typing that out has gotten me a little bit upset.

I think one of the challenges here is not putting too much weight on that sort of thing when you have so little face-to-face time to base it on. Things are often flowery and lovely the first few dates, but it's not enough to assume you're seeing the entire picture. 4 months of consistent, in-person dating would have been a different story, but the time you spent in his presence was simply too little to really construct much of a future on. It was also too little to really get a true impression of who he actually is, as a person.

This is why such situations (I hesitate to call them relationships, because they really aren't) that are largely digital lead to so much disappointment for many, because they build up a sense of false intimacy and have a harder time accepting the truth when the other person isn't who they imagined. People tend to build up expectations that are out of proportion because they don't have enough real, tangible information about the other party to sustain them. 

I have already seen more than a few lockdown-based flings fizzle out, because I think people forgot that scarcity can make even "meh" options seem amazing. That fish in the sea seems much more tempting and wonderful when there aren't many other fish swimming around in that sea or when you're not allowed out to peruse other seas.  A couple friends went rather gaga for people they probably wouldn't have given much thought to, had we all been out living our normal lives, interacting regularly with others, and not feeling the isolation and loneliness of lockdown. But as soon as lockdown eased in my area, well, suddenly those people didn't seem so interesting anymore and it faded out. I wonder if the same might be true for you, in that quarantine had you feeling more tense and lonely than usual, so you latched on to a man who wasn't actually that great for you. 

[Versacehottie]

7 hours ago, lovesfool said:

 I'm not sure what you mean. Is that not what everyone is doing? "If a guy is really into you he should be doing BLANK" or "would never do BLANK". Maybe that's what you're saying, that I should listen to other people more? I have spoken to my friends and they have given me some advice different to this forum, but maybe they're just trying to be nice to me and not upset me more.

Maybe my standards for meeting a guy are so high that when I eventually do find one that ticks all the boxes that I overlook his faults because it was so hard to get here in the first place. You would not believe how picky I am when it comes to dating men. It largely comes down to initial attraction, and I'm not physically attracted to that many men. If I am luck in finding someone that is attractive, and they turn out to be smart and funny and can hold a conversation I'm usually sold, but that happens so very rarely for me.

  I'm not good at expressing myself emotionally, so my feelings for him may not have come across very well here. I could tell you about the long walks in the parks we had, his funny laugh when I tell a bad joke, how he cuddled up to me when we were watching movies on the sofa, his pure happiness and positivity. I could go on, but even typing that out has gotten me a little bit upset.

Yes, I'm frustrated that my dating life has been unsuccessful, and it may have come across as the main reason why I want this to work. But the reality is that I cared for him. I looked forward to seeing him. I lit up every time I saw a message from him. He may have been the guy I've felt most strongly about. That's why I wanted it to work.

Thanks for calling me pathetic though. It's not like I told him I was desperate to find someone because of my less than successful dating life, but you seem to think that that's a reason guys wouldn't date me.

1st bolded is about my comment about "SHOULDS".  Kind of a more simple explanation is that use of the word means that you are placing expectations of how you believe things should be in others (or yourself) or the world and it tends to cause frustration and disappointment with life.   Part of the problem with having it permeate your life is you will fail to be focused and work with the reality in front of you.  It's common in anxious & overthinker types.  Just a quick search showed that tinybudda ("why the word should can be harmful") has an article about it but it's a common thing/directive of how to make your life better when you have negative thinking patterns.  I was trying to say at least IF you do use the word or place expectations on others, you need to FILTER many perspectives in order to get closer to an accurate picture of what the should behavior would look like or more realistic expectations.  It's all about trying to bring you back to reality. If you ACCEPT the world and the people who come into your life, especially for an overthinker like you, just AS THEY ARE, it would benefit you more.  This does not mean I believe you should accept for example this guy as he is and STILL want him as a boyfriend.  You would see him without your own expectations layered on and observe what he is offering and how he treats you without expectations on him and MEASURE the reality of what you are receiving from him up to what you want and decide if it's a pass/fail. It would keep you more grounded without all the extra stuff you throw in there.  I'm not explaining it well but hopefully you will research it. Anyway it all touches on the fact that i do think you would benefit from some therapy due to overthinking and anxiety.  I'm not saying that to be condescending--i'm saying that because you sound intelligent enough and your mind is in overdriving & thought patterns become etched in your behavior and resulting life.  I think you are at a crossroads where you would significantly benefit from it  And can have the life you want if you if you did that.

BTW, I am not calling you pathetic.  The behavior you exhibited is though.  The excuses for wanting to hang onto someone who is not showing you care/concern or that he would make a good partner & the lengths you were willing to go to relative to the effort he'd shown you were.  

Bolded second: Of course, you didn't tell him that DIRECTLY--but indirectly you've been messaging it all along.  And if you think people can't tell that this is exactly what is going on, you are wrong. You probably didn't tell us that was the reason/excuse for hanging onto him for dear life & the fake account and mind manipulations you were doing to yourself until 1/2 way through the thread but i certainly guessed it as I'm sure many of the others on this thread did before you finally  mentioned it.  It's between the lines in the things you say, how you say them and what you do.  You can't really hide motivations that much.  So you are underestimating the ability that others have to "read" you/your mindset & motives.  It is the reason you will continue to have problems with guys and getting guys that are worthy people into your life---that is the major reason that I keep contributing to this thread is that if you don't change this part, you won't be with a great guy and will struggle as you did even with a subpar guy.  This is priority number one to change.  And you are spinning out all about him and hoping he realizes what he lost and overthinking when you should put your critical thinking and analytical skills toward fixing your own mindset to give you the best chance of future success.  You seem to be in danger of thinking that you can do the same things (which are highly justified in a flawed way at that!!) and get a different result--I'm saying you will get a very similar result unless you change what is going on in your brain.

[kendahke]

9 hours ago, lovesfool said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Is that not what everyone is doing?

No. People who are stubborn and overly invested in having their way do this. Their expectations do not match what is falling out in experience at their feet because they're choosing to view things in an unrealistic way--as Versacehottie said in "shoulds".

While there are codes of conduct, behavior and mores that society, in general, adheres to, with every individual, there are some they adhere to strictly and some they toss on the trash heap. Some feel that just talking to someone on the phone and barely seeing them in person means they're exclusive: to others, it just means it's something to do because they had some time.  The key is to not invest your heart and psyche into a basic stranger in whose presence you've barely spent any time and who hasn't demonstrated that they want what you want. Some people will say anything to get their way--you have to look at consistent behavior in order to understand where they're at.

Also understand that within the first 3 months of any relationship, it's a honeymoon phase. Both people are on their best behavior, trying to make a good impression.  After around the 3 month mark is when the "on their best behavior" representatives are dismissed and the real him/real her comes to the fore---and that is when all of the relationship incompatibility issues and conflicts begin rearing their ugly heads. 

People are only who they are: not the fantasy/artificial construct you've chosen to build of who you'd like for them to be.

 

[Velvet teddy]

On 7/21/2020 at 4:33 PM, lovesfool said:

Everyone lies, but I just happened to catch this one. I've told guys I've dated before that I was sick when they wanted to meet up because I wanted to meet my own friends. It wasn't out of malice as I cared for them, but I knew they would get upset if I chose my friends over them. Come to think of it, if they did find out it would look really bad, but in the moment it felt like I was making the right call.

It feels especially difficult for me because I'm from a small area and I think I've seen every single guy on the dating apps.

If you keep waiting for the "right guy" or the "perfect match", you could be very disappointed. There's no such thing as "the one" and have many friends who are in truly loving relationships, but it was happenstance (and in some cases fear of getting too old!) that brought them together. There's always going to be someone out there who is more beautiful, funnier, or more caring than your partner, but in the end you fall in love with imperfect partners who all have their flaws, some greater than others.

There are little white lies yes.

But in the context of dating, his lie was pretty big. 

[Allupinnit]

Unfortunately for every single woman I know who puts looks first, they are single after trying to get over the last hot a**h***.  It seems you're only picky when it comes to looks because this guy hasn't given you much to hang your hat on.

I know a girl who calls herself a "looks person" but what it actually means is she only dates hot men regardless of how they treat her.  You might want to reexamine your priorities.  

[lovesfool]

I've discovered a very good way of not thinking about him - have a really bad day at work. I'm so stressed at the moment, depressingly so. I've enough to be worried about without dealing with his antics. The only time he popped into my head today is when I felt I needed a hug from someone  .

[Allupinnit]

37 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

I've discovered a very good way of not thinking about him - have a really bad day at work. I'm so stressed at the moment, depressingly so. I've enough to be worried about without dealing with his antics. The only time he popped into my head today is when I felt I needed a hug from someone  .

You don't need to deal with his antics.  Focus on meeting someone who actually likes you.  Forget about this one, men don't heat up.

[Versacehottie]

55 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

I've discovered a very good way of not thinking about him - have a really bad day at work. I'm so stressed at the moment, depressingly so. I've enough to be worried about without dealing with his antics. The only time he popped into my head today is when I felt I needed a hug from someone  .

You can straighten this out and redirect your life.  It will take some work and won't be easy.  But you will put yourself in a better place where you could have a supportive partner in your corner for these days. 

 

[scooby-philly]

On 7/20/2020 at 4:00 AM, lovesfool said:

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I just wanted so hard for this to work out. I've had a terrible dating life and I did think to myself that this was my last chance at finding someone (I'm in a small town and options are very limited). He seemed to really like me and I really liked him, talking about doing things together, meeting friends and family, it all sounded positive.

I don't know where it went wrong. I have been playing the timeline through my head ever since.

This time last week he came to visit and was going to ask to become official, but he chickened out. He actually said it was because I said something that suggested I wasn't ready to be officially boyfriend and girlfriend. He goes quiet after this and I see him on a dating app 4 days later.

I asked him if he was committed to something serious or was he looking for something more casual because of some of his behaviour. I told him I wanted to see him more and was the long distance (1.5-2 hours) going to be an issue for him. He said he would make the effort to see me more. After that, he deletes his dating account. Everything seemed fine for the couple of days after, with him messaging me and being his usual self. Checking in when I hadn't messaged in a while etc.

Then yesterday I see him on it again and know he is actively talking to girls on it. I rang him to confront him (but didn't get to mention the apps), but then he tells me he is having doubts about the long distance and how it would work in the long-term. This was a surprise to me as I didn't think it was an issue at all. I said if it was going to be an issue for him, we should just end it. I talked about ending it a few times, but each time he hesitated and said that he really likes me, wants to spend time with me but he's not sure what to think ever since I raised the long-distance question. He said he needs time to think and is going to talk to me later today.

In my opinion I think that the 2 hour distance and only seeing each other every 2 weeks at best has him thinking that we are only in the early stages of dating and that he needs to keep his options open. I know that when I was dating someone I would still be on the apps for a while. The only problem here is that I thought we were on the same page and felt more committed to each other that we didn't need to keep our options open.

Two things can happen from chatting to him later. Either he says the distance is a problem and it won't work or else he says that he wants to continue and will make it work. If it's the former, that's that and I will say no more. If it's the latter, I honestly don't know what to do. If I decided to try work on it, I would have to mention being exclusive and how I saw him on the dating app actively looking for someone else, just to gauge his reaction. 

I know a lot of you will tell me he's not worth it, but he feels worth it to me. But it comes down to whether I think he's actually invested in me. Time and time again I've found fault with otherwise great men. Every relationship I've had, there has been something that I keep overthinking about and decide to end it. It's mostly due to these damn dating apps and seeing guys still active on it. I truly think ignorance is bliss because I know from now on I will be checking in on every guy I date to see if he's on the apps.

I get the feeling that all guys are like this and I'll end up breaking up with them all. I just can't win.

Let's stop the man bashing first off. I know plenty of women who've cheated and/or gone onto dating apps looking for an ego boost, a quick lay, etc. Yes, he needs to be more clear with his feelings and intentions but they've had 4 dates irl in 4 months. Sure, COVID sucks, but if SHE doesn't make her feelings clear and and known while eh's hemming and hawing, then he's not sleazy. 

 

OP - I bolded something you wrote. True, in a committed relationship neither party is on a dating app. Even for an ego boost. But checking will only make you cynical and angry and bitter. I would question you to see if there's a common trait in the men you select and/or something about your life/childhood that makes you pick the wrong guys for you or guys who can't commit. When a mature, healthy, emotionally balanced man loves a woman, we commit, we don't let things stay unclear, and we don't cheat.

 

[lovesfool]

My friend advised me say goodbye in person as ending it over the phone is never the way to go. How true that is, I don't know.

Either way, we spoke yesterday. We didn't say much, but basically said that we didn't like how it ended because it happened so quickly and over the phone and have arranged to meet tomorrow. He doesn't seem to have changed his stance, but that was never likely anyway.

I've come around to the fact that he was definitely lying to me. Before it was a high probability, but now I see it as a certainty. What changed my mind is that I was reading through the messages he sent to the "fake me" on the dating app. Almost everything lined up that it was him by the description of what he did for a living, did for the day, did the night before etc. But the thing that sold it to me was that he writes one thing in a distinctive way. He writes "Hey" and then goes to the next line of the same message to write something instead of putting a period or else sending a second message. Sounds silly, but that's what sold it to me. Far to many coincidences for him to be telling the truth and that small doubt I had was killing me, but it's gone now.

I need to see him for my own closure. I know you'll tell me I don't need to do it, or I shouldn't, but I'm committed to ending things in person so please don't say it. Please.

I'm not looking to change his mind, I'm just going to lay my cards on the table. I will tell him I know that he is lying and that he has really hurt me. I was willing to give it a chance, but you refused to own up to the lie and tried to trick me into believing you. I'm going to tell him we will never work and it's nobody's fault but your own.

If anything, it will clear my head and give some hope in the future for any girl that he dates, but he's a poisoned chalice to me now.

[elaine567]

OK, but you are meeting him merely to tell him off, to call him out and that IMO could be dangerous... You hardly know the man.

People in general do not want to be faced with their own "wrong doing", you are not his mother, you have no right to judge him.
He is an adult. 
He is allowed to seek out other women, that is what dating is about, trying to find the best option available. You only had 4 dates,  he then went MIA and you went into detective mode rather than just take the hint.
It was up to you to walk away, the minute you found he was not "all in" with you.   
I am sure you want him to say how sorry he is, you want him to admit to the lying, you want him to kowtow to you, but he may go on the defensive, get angry, start yelling and get aggressive...
This is a bad idea IMO.

[assertives]

I guess when you are older, you'll realise that in life, some things are better left unsaid. You and him obviously have different goals, motivations and values approaching this "situationship". You see this way more sacred and serious than he did. To him, it sounded like a causal, fun, distraction during this time. Coupled that with perhaps also his general outlook towards relationships at this stage of his life. He's obviously not going to feel "guilty" or "bad" or "remorseful" for whatever you are planning on accusing him of when you meet in person.

If anything, he'll probably just roll his eyes, think you're overreacting and move on. It's not going to "teach him a lesson" if that's what you are hoping. And if you truly truly just want to get it out of your chest and truly truly don't give a damn what his response/reaction would be, I suppose you could do it anyway. (Or write a letter but never send it.) But if you are doing it in the hopes that he'll "see the error of his ways" or "realise what he's missing" you are setting yourself up for more disappointment and pain.

[lovesfool]

31 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

OK, but you are meeting him merely to tell him off, to call him out and that IMO could be dangerous... You hardly know the man.

People in general do not want to be faced with their own "wrong doing", you are not his mother, you have no right to judge him.
He is an adult. 
He is allowed to seek out other women, that is what dating is about, trying to find the best option available. You only had 4 dates,  he then went MIA and you went into detective mode rather than just take the hint.
It was up to you to walk away, the minute you found he was not "all in" with you.   
I am sure you want him to say how sorry he is, you want him to admit to the lying, you want him to kowtow to you, but he may go on the defensive, get angry, start yelling and get aggressive...
This is a bad idea IMO.

Thanks for your concern. I am not fearing for my safety as we will be meeting in a busy public park.

Yes he is allowed to do what he wants and I never said that he couldn't. I've had bumps in dating periods before but I didn't assume it was over and give up at the first hurdle. They get better. I think it would have been foolish of me to end things just because he went MIA for a few days.

2 minutes ago, assertives said:

I guess when you are older, you'll realise that in life, some things are better left unsaid. You and him obviously have different goals, motivations and values approaching this "situationship". You see this way more sacred and serious than he did. To him, it sounded like a causal, fun, distraction during this time. Coupled that with perhaps also his general outlook towards relationships at this stage of his life. He's obviously not going to feel "guilty" or "bad" or "remorseful" for whatever you are planning on accusing him of when you meet in person.

If anything, he'll probably just roll his eyes, think you're overreacting and move on. It's not going to "teach him a lesson" if that's what you are hoping. And if you truly truly just want to get it out of your chest and truly truly don't give a damn what his response/reaction would be, I suppose you could do it anyway. (Or write a letter but never send it.) But if you are doing it in the hopes that he'll "see the error of his ways" or "realise what he's missing" you are setting yourself up for more disappointment and pain.

I don't believe he found it to be a casual & fun distraction. Why would he even bother to engage with me after this mess of me looking for him on dating apps. If I wasn't that interested in someone, I would say this is too much effort and walk away. He's going to drive 2 hours to see me tomorrow - that's too much work for something casual that you know is over. Like a lot of you said before, dating shouldn't be this difficult and he could easily walk away if he wasn't invested. My friends also think that he wanted something more than casual, and maybe I'm not explaining it well over text. 

I don't think you can say for sure that he's not going to feel guilty. You have never met him. And I don't know if he will either. But that's not the point, it's as you say - to get it off my chest. I had work issues earlier this week and the moment I aired my grievances with my boss I felt so much better. He didn't really help me with the problems, but just saying it out loud to him was like a weight off my chest.

[balletomane]

How can you "end it" when there was nothing to end?

You were in the early stages of dating. There was no break up because there was no relationship to break up from. Acting as if there was is only going to cause you more hurt, but you are still actively trying to convince yourself that this was more than it was.

There are people who end up obsessing over non-relationships for years. You are setting yourself up for that. By meeting him, you're giving yourself more fuel for the obsessive overanalyzing (e.g. "He wouldn't drive to meet me unless he..."). You might feel temporarily better after meeting him (especially as you'll be hoping he contacts you afterwards to ask for an exclusive relationship), but soon that hope will ebb, and you'll be left analysing every little detail of the conversation, trying to pull meaning from it, going over and over it in your head in the same way you think about your four dates. This is a refusal to let go.

He might well feel bad that you're so upset. But this doesn't mean he wants to date you or that he regrets multi-dating, and it doesn't mean he isn't also perceiving you as overreacting. It is possible to be sympathetic to someone just because they're upset, not because you think the distress is proportional/called for. You are filtering out everything that doesn't fit the narrative you've built around this situation, and this is going to keep you trapped and hurting for a long time.

[lovesfool]

17 minutes ago, balletomane said:

How can you "end it" when there was nothing to end?

You were in the early stages of dating. There was no break up because there was no relationship to break up from. Acting as if there was is only going to cause you more hurt, but you are still actively trying to convince yourself that this was more than it was.

There are people who end up obsessing over non-relationships for years. You are setting yourself up for that. By meeting him, you're giving yourself more fuel for the obsessive overanalyzing (e.g. "He wouldn't drive to meet me unless he..."). You might feel temporarily better after meeting him (especially as you'll be hoping he contacts you afterwards to ask for an exclusive relationship), but soon that hope will ebb, and you'll be left analysing every little detail of the conversation, trying to pull meaning from it, going over and over it in your head in the same way you think about your four dates. This is a refusal to let go.

He might well feel bad that you're so upset. But this doesn't mean he wants to date you or that he regrets multi-dating, and it doesn't mean he isn't also perceiving you as overreacting. It is possible to be sympathetic to someone just because they're upset, not because you think the distress is proportional/called for. You are filtering out everything that doesn't fit the narrative you've built around this situation, and this is going to keep you trapped and hurting for a long time.

Saying "end it" was not just from me. It was from him as well. He claimed to wanted to become official a couple of weeks ago and so for him what we had was something that could end.

It may not seem like it, but I do get over old flames. I've never obsessed over a breakup for a long time. It's always going to take SOME time to get back to normal. I've experienced this before and I am stronger than I come across.

One thing I don't want in life is having regrets  hanging over me and if I don't meet him I know I will regret it.