808Traveler Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 I'm hoping someone can help me figure out why I'm attracted to and keep getting into relationships with toxic women. I've decided to take a break from dating to focus on getting my life stable, learn how to develop a better sense to spot toxic people early on, and develop a stronger boundary to guard against toxic people. I know step one is to stop dating and I'm needing help on figuring out ways to reach the above mentioned but also how to be ok with the lonliness. Thanks 1
ShyViolet Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 If a person is toxic, they would probably show some red flags very early on. In the past have you ignored these red flags? Not recognized them? 1
d0nnivain Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Combat loneliness through friends, family & hobbies. Taking a break is a good idea. Think about who you are & who you want to be. You being your best self will help attract like minded healthy people to you Now think about all of your past toxic relationships. Do you see any patterns? Do you see any similarities between or among the women? Are you attracted to wounded birds who you want to help / fix? If so, break that pattern. If you want to fix something buy a old car or house. Don't try to improve people. Once you recognize the similarities, work to avoid those traits in your next relationship. 1
Calmandfocused Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Yep I had this issue but gender reversal. Op are you an Empath and/ or a co dependant? - Google this in depth. If you are toxic people are majorly attracted to this. Do not change who you are but do not offer your everything early on. Look for the red flags. A biggy is “needing” you very very early on and smothering you in excessive “love bombing” If all their ex’s are crazy and are made out to be awful human beings, that’s another major red flag (shows lack of responsibility and blame shifting). A good therapist can also help you explore the whys and wherfores so you stop engaging in your own toxic patterns (often unknowingly). 2
CAPSLOCK BANDIT Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Women in our culture are entitled to focus on themselves; this breeds a type of person that has a level of disregard for the opposite sex that you definitely need to take into account when dating... Its not an issue of character either, we live in a gynocentric society, it is what it is. Coming to grips with the nature of women, as a man, its a difficult thing at first, because you realize how big of a disconnect there is between Social Media Portrayal Vs. Real Life. Words Vs. Actions... There is a constant disconnect in their dealings with men, because the illusion of monogamy needs to be maintained in order to be seen as a realistic life partner. Your job, as a man, is to dispel the bulls*** and see what is really going on; you cannot simply accept the portrayal of herself through a dating app, for example, you really need to ask some hard questions and sometimes you will be unpopular as a result, being unpopular is fine, having my time wasted because some woman cannot come to grips with her own value is not fine for me, its definitely fine for her, she does not give a s***, so as a man, in these situations, I need to be my own advocate and not let my time and resources be swallowed up by the sea of single, married and otherwise open mouths that are willing to get what they can by any means, as long as the Social Media looks good at the end of the day, that is all that matters it seems. 4
rjc149 Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 OP-- can you define what you deem to be "toxic?" It may be helpful to put forth a more tangible illustration of what a toxic woman is, like the ones you encounter, and let us critique it. Some women are toxic, yes, but some women may just be reacting to what they see as unattractive behavior. 4 2
regine_phalange Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Well, what did you like about these women? Something must have attracted you, some positive quality (that was later offset by the toxicity)
Ruby Slippers Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Can you give us some examples of how they're toxic?
Author 808Traveler Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 15 hours ago, ShyViolet said: If a person is toxic, they would probably show some red flags very early on. In the past have you ignored these red flags? Not recognized them? Yes there are red flags in the beginning and I do choose to ignore them. I’m always hopeful and think that everything can be fixed and worked out. 2
Author 808Traveler Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 13 hours ago, rjc149 said: OP-- can you define what you deem to be "toxic?" It may be helpful to put forth a more tangible illustration of what a toxic woman is, like the ones you encounter, and let us critique it. Some women are toxic, yes, but some women may just be reacting to what they see as unattractive behavior. Toxic includes actual physical abuse when she’s angry, or telling me I won’t ever amount to much because I’m week and small. Girls who have tried to tell me what to wear, how to act, tell me to shoot my barber, my teeth are to crooked, and who criticize me for being me. Every week it’s something new and it seems like no matter how much effort I make it’s never enough.
Author 808Traveler Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 13 hours ago, regine_phalange said: Well, what did you like about these women? Something must have attracted you, some positive quality (that was later offset by the toxicity) I’m attracted to there level of adventure and personal interests because they align with mine
Author 808Traveler Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 14 hours ago, Calmandfocused said: Yep I had this issue but gender reversal. Op are you an Empath and/ or a co dependant? - Google this in depth. If you are toxic people are majorly attracted to this. Do not change who you are but do not offer your everything early on. Look for the red flags. A biggy is “needing” you very very early on and smothering you in excessive “love bombing” If all their ex’s are crazy and are made out to be awful human beings, that’s another major red flag (shows lack of responsibility and blame shifting). A good therapist can also help you explore the whys and wherfores so you stop engaging in your own toxic patterns (often unknowingly). With me being BiPolar II it makes me an empath. A buddy of mine said this means I’ll be a great long term partner but horrible during the courtship phase because I’ll pick up on the girls searching through their feelings as they decide if I’m a good match for them.
basil67 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, 808Traveler said: Toxic includes actual physical abuse when she’s angry, or telling me I won’t ever amount to much because I’m week and small. Girls who have tried to tell me what to wear, how to act, tell me to shoot my barber, my teeth are to crooked, and who criticize me for being me. Every week it’s something new and it seems like no matter how much effort I make it’s never enough. Physical abuse is always unacceptable. But for the rest, there is very much another side to the story. Given that this is a recurring issue, you are likely the constant. If someone tells "you won't amount to much because you are week and small", chances are that you've exasperated them to the point of saying what they are thinking. The girls who have told you what to wear, your hair, your teeth - they are trying to give you constructive advice to help you become more attractive. Criticising 'you for being you' also has a whole lot of back story which is yet to be told. This story is more complex than 'toxic' people Edited July 18, 2020 by basil67 1
d0nnivain Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, 808Traveler said: Yes there are red flags in the beginning and I do choose to ignore them. I’m always hopeful and think that everything can be fixed and worked out. Learn to adhere to the red flags. They are there for a reason. Some of the way women treated you -- telling you that you won't amount to much -- is toxic but suggestions like this outfit would look better or you could benefit from seeing a dentist to have your teeth straightened are more like constructive criticisms delivered out of kindness / concern not some intent to demean. 1
SumGuy Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, 808Traveler said: Toxic includes actual physical abuse when she’s angry, or telling me I won’t ever amount to much because I’m week and small. Girls who have tried to tell me what to wear, how to act, tell me to shoot my barber, my teeth are to crooked, and who criticize me for being me. Every week it’s something new and it seems like no matter how much effort I make it’s never enough. That is indeed toxic and if the genders were reversed would call it negging. The last bolded part is a major red flag, it is a form of goal post moving The behaviors you describe are complete and utter BS. If you are young it may be acceptable for a short time for sex, but then again people like that are not to be trusted and could potentially go even more crazy on you. Good news is not all women are like that, not even close. 1
SumGuy Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, 808Traveler said: I’m attracted to there level of adventure and personal interests because they align with mine This is often what people say who are attracted to narcissist and other toxic people. These are good things to be attracted to but you also need to find a way to filter for toxicity and work with a professional to see why you discount women who may be better for you. There can be a pattern based on what kind of relationships were modeled for you when you, where drama and abuse are confused for passion and excitement. It can be near impossible to detect a lot of toxic people from their profile, but perhaps you can develop the ability to leave (with little delay) once the behavior rears it's head, or at least not give it more than one or two passes and learning to respond to it in a constructive manner when it arises. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 Have you or are you now talking to a counselor about your mental health issue and how it impacts dating? This seems pretty essential, given the degree of abuse and criticism you seem to be attracting. Other than that, have you tried self-help books about your condition that include tools for navigating relationships?
Hopeful30 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) On 7/17/2020 at 12:16 PM, 808Traveler said: I'm hoping someone can help me figure out why I'm attracted to and keep getting into relationships with toxic women. I've decided to take a break from dating to focus on getting my life stable, learn how to develop a better sense to spot toxic people early on, and develop a stronger boundary to guard against toxic people. I know step one is to stop dating and I'm needing help on figuring out ways to reach the above mentioned but also how to be ok with the lonliness. Thanks Look at your upbringing. Did you have a toxic parent? What is the earliest toxic relationship you had? This information holds the clues as to why you keep attracting this type of person. You likely had early experiences that reinforced behaviours acceptable to toxics (usually a parent as they serve as our relationship blueprints early in life), therefore keep 'matching' with these personalities unknowingly. Until we heal past negative experiences, they keep showing up in our lives. Edited July 19, 2020 by Hopeful30 1
Lotsgoingon Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 You cannot ignore red flags. Issue solved and identified right there. You can NOT ignore red flags. I’m always hopeful and think that everything can be fixed and worked out. Get to therapy on this one. This idea is so wildly childish and unreasonable. "Everything can be fixed?" And what's striking is that you can identify this immature attitude. Most people trapped in this thinking can't identify the crazy thinking. You can. So ... that's a sign that something deeper is at work here. Go to therapy, brother. Most likely you learned to ignore red flags in your family, with mom and dad and other people in your family. Actually you want to take the opposite perspective, WHAT YOU SEE NOW in the person = what you will get in relationship with the person. No better and often a lot worse. You need to screen out people who don't have their life together in a way you really respect RIGHT NOW! No allowing for "potential." Look I have trauma in my family history, but I've learned when it comes to dating, you want to date only people who can live well even with having had trauma. You want people who can function highly right now. If not, just be friends. A person who hasn't healed can't be a good partner. You might be putting yourself in the hero-rescuer role: imagining that you are going to be such a good man that this person will come to trust you and open up and heal and transcend previous wounds and pain. NOT! There is no rescuing in a good relationship. You want to date an equal--some who if you mistreat them, will confidently kick you to the curb. Someone who you know you can lean on in an emergency because they have reserves of resilience and creativity and determination and strength. Sure, for a period one person might have an illness, but you invest love with them because you know that when they are past the illness, they will be wonderful ... and because spending time with that person just renews your spirit. Finally, if you're getting involved with toxic women a typically corollary to that ... is you are ignoring your own life. Get a life outside of dating. Reading, hobbies, activities, friendships, religion, whatever. So that your life doesn't hinge on this toxic person ... and having a life outside of relationships is one way we place a boundary on nutty relationships. 1
Hopeful30 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said: You cannot ignore red flags. Issue solved and identified right there. You can NOT ignore red flags. I’m always hopeful and think that everything can be fixed and worked out. Get to therapy on this one. This idea is so wildly childish and unreasonable. "Everything can be fixed?" And what's striking is that you can identify this immature attitude. Most people trapped in this thinking can't identify the crazy thinking. You can. So ... that's a sign that something deeper is at work here. Go to therapy, brother. Most likely you learned to ignore red flags in your family, with mom and dad and other people in your family. Actually you want to take the opposite perspective, WHAT YOU SEE NOW in the person = what you will get in relationship with the person. No better and often a lot worse. You need to screen out people who don't have their life together in a way you really respect RIGHT NOW! No allowing for "potential." Look I have trauma in my family history, but I've learned when it comes to dating, you want to date only people who can live well even with having had trauma. You want people who can function highly right now. If not, just be friends. A person who hasn't healed can't be a good partner. You might be putting yourself in the hero-rescuer role: imagining that you are going to be such a good man that this person will come to trust you and open up and heal and transcend previous wounds and pain. NOT! There is no rescuing in a good relationship. You want to date an equal--some who if you mistreat them, will confidently kick you to the curb. Someone who you know you can lean on in an emergency because they have reserves of resilience and creativity and determination and strength. Sure, for a period one person might have an illness, but you invest love with them because you know that when they are past the illness, they will be wonderful ... and because spending time with that person just renews your spirit. Finally, if you're getting involved with toxic women a typically corollary to that ... is you are ignoring your own life. Get a life outside of dating. Reading, hobbies, activities, friendships, religion, whatever. So that your life doesn't hinge on this toxic person ... and having a life outside of relationships is one way we place a boundary on nutty relationships. While a little harsh, I agree with the above. My experiences (with people in general) improved significantly when I took everything for face value. By this I mean, I stopped giving the benefit of the doubt, and took people for how they presented themselves. While this rendered me alone and basically friendless, the quality of my life and personal emotional/mental health improved drastically. I stopped stressing over potential futures or relationships, and started filtering through people much faster. It's a blessing and a curse, really. On the one hand, your path is cleared from unnecessary people. On the other hand, your social life drops significantly. Unfortunately, genuine and authentic people who make self growth and betterment a priority are the minority. That's why we often don't connect with these people until we have 'raised' ourselves enough to mingle in those circles. First, we must let go of wishful thinking and work with what's in front of us. Even the first step in any substance abuse program is 'admit you have a problem'. As in, recognize where the change needs to happen. 1 1
CLS63AMG Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 If you need to "take a break" you're over doing it or as you've admitted been dating terrible women. Have some standards for yourself and only meet the ones that meet your standards. 5-6 years ago I'd go on 2-3 dates a week and all were failures because I was meeting every girl I thought was attractive. Nowadays I have a long list of requirements (nothing crazy) and I date sparingly, but when I do, and it goes right, its fireworks.
balletomane Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 20 hours ago, basil67 said: Given that this is a recurring issue, you are likely the constant. If someone tells "you won't amount to much because you are week and small", chances are that you've exasperated them to the point of saying what they are thinking. The girls who have told you what to wear, your hair, your teeth - they are trying to give you constructive advice to help you become more attractive. Criticising 'you for being you' also has a whole lot of back story which is yet to be told. I disagree on this one. There's a difference between making helpful suggestions to someone, and putting someone down in an unpleasant way. If the OP is talking about women in his recent dating history, then his threads suggest he hasn't even been in relationships with them, and in that context any critical comments about his looks feel doubly inappropriate. If someone doesn't like how you look by the second or third date, they should move on, not start telling you how how bad your barber is. I'd accept feedback on my appearance from my boyfriend (providing it was kind and constructive, and not, "You'll never amount to much if...") but I wouldn't change it to suit the tastes of someone I barely knew. That said, I do think there are some constructive changes OP needs to make, not in terms of appearance, but in how he approaches dates. OP, in a recent thread you talked about organising a sky-diving trip as a second date. One reason why lavish expensive dates like that are a bad idea is that the kind of person who is willing to accept you shelling out so much money on a second meeting is also the kind of person who is likely to use and take advantage of you. Not guaranteed, but likely. Most people just wouldn't be comfortable with a relative stranger spending so much money on them. By acting like that, you attract the people who have no qualms about it and who will take whatever they can get. Another issue I've noticed is that you seem fixated on how to attract these women and make them interested in you. You see dating as them deciding whether you're right for them. But what about if she's right for you? Looking for someone who is adventurous and shares your hobbies isn't enough, because these aren't character traits - a woman could be an awful person and still enjoy outdoorsy things. You need a tighter filter. I agree that therapy might help you to develop these skills. I was in an abusive relationship for two years. My therapist helped me to identify why I'd remained in it, and to cultivate the assertiveness skills I needed. I'd give this a try.
basil67 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 @balletomane my rule of thumb would always be to avoid dating anybody who says that their past relationships/interactions with the opposite sex were all toxic. Many of us have one or two toxic people in our pasts, but if they are ALL toxic, then either we are contributing to it in some way or are exaggerating the faults of others to make ourselves feel better. And before anyone suggests it, switch the genders and my answer would be the same. 2
alphamale Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 3 hours ago, basil67 said: @balletomane my rule of thumb would always be to avoid dating anybody who says that their past relationships/interactions with the opposite sex were all toxic. Many of us have one or two toxic people in our pasts, but if they are ALL toxic, then either we are contributing to it in some way or are exaggerating the faults of others to make ourselves feel better. And before anyone suggests it, switch the genders and my answer would be the same. ^^this
d0nnivain Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 3:55 AM, 808Traveler said: it seems like no matter how much effort I make it’s never enough. No. It's the opposite. You get too intense, give too much & expect too much too soon. The last girl you posted about after blowing the 1st date you made too many self depreciating cringeworthy apologies. Then you scheduled an expensive sky diving 2nd date on your birthday. We warned you that was too much too soon but you insisted. As predicted she thanked you for the expensive thrill & walked away. Now you explain that you are bi-polar. Having lived with a guy with that condition, let me tell you when he was off his meds that roller coaster was no fun for me. Taking a break from dating to get yourself on a more even keel is a great idea. It's not all your EXs who are toxic. Your role in the demise of these relationships has to be examined
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