BENEFITS of COVID-19

[mark clemson]

Part of the below is probably thinking like a sociopath, but I was wondering what some of the benefits of COVID might be. Below is a partial list that perhaps folks might want to add to or discuss.

 

- WFH, for those who like it, will probably become more accepted for many types of jobs.

- There may be new medical advances that come out of it.

- Some gov'ts may take their disaster preparation activities more seriously.

- From a "5,000 ft overview perspective", many (certainly not all) of the people dying from COVID-19 are older. Again, thinking somewhat sociopathically, while their deaths are certainly tragic from their perspectives (and of course that of loved ones) one could argue that the ultimately finite resources that go into maintaining their lives for another 10-15 years are actually better "saved" and used by the next generation. That thought could apply to their savings as well - rather than spending their savings (or draining gov't coffers) on nursing or medical care or similar, their children will inherit their wealth (and more of it) bit early, as well as a government that's a bit less strapped for cash. So while very few people actually want to lose a parent, it does benefit the kids/grandkids.*

So those are some thoughts - any others?

 

*Note: I am by no means suggesting that these older folks don't deserve to live or anything like that. I generally don't consider myself the judge of things like that, particularly for people who've done nothing wrong. So please spare me and others inappropriate vitriol on that particular point. This point is intended from a "here's what happened" perspective, not a "here's what's right" or "what should happen" perspective.

[elaine567]

8 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

while their deaths are certainly tragic from their perspectives (and of course that of loved ones) one could argue that the ultimately finite resources that go into maintaining their lives for another 10-15 years are actually better "saved" and used by the next generation.

I am sure that fact as not been missed by politicians.

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

 

- There may be new medical advances that come out of it.

I do think governments and scientists will focus much more heavily on medical research after all this, simply because I think after all it will be concluded another pandemic that causes so much loss of life and disruption must be avoided at all costs. Therefore assuming it is possible, perhaps by the middle of century there will be a universal flu vaccine and very effective anti viral drugs similar to the antibiotics that we already have. Perhaps they will also come up with solutions to antibiotic resistance too.

Given the advances in computing technology over the past 50 years, I think similar advances in medicine can be achieved over the next 50 years. 

[Ellener]

53 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Given the advances in computing technology over the past 50 years, I think similar advances in medicine can be achieved over the next 50 years. 

I'm hoping that birth, sickness and death become more than simple means to people-control and profit.

 

 

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

So while very few people actually want to lose a parent, it does benefit the kids/grandkids.*

Except they lose the human warmth and wisdom of their predecessors. 

Money doesn't teach or love us much. 

[Angelle]

I have no kids, and I don't want to lose my remaining parent. 

[alphamale]

45 minutes ago, Angelle said:

I have no kids, and I don't want to lose my remaining parent. 

same here Angelle

[Kitty Tantrum]

I hope they keep the "distancing squares" in checkout lanes.

[La.Primavera]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

From a "5,000 ft overview perspective", many (certainly not all) of the people dying from COVID-19 are older. Again, thinking somewhat sociopathically, while their deaths are certainly tragic from their perspectives (and of course that of loved ones) one could argue that the ultimately finite resources that go into maintaining their lives for another 10-15 years are actually better "saved" and used by the next generation. That thought could apply to their savings as well - rather than spending their savings (or draining gov't coffers) on nursing or medical care or similar, their children will inherit their wealth (and more of it) bit early, as well as a government that's a bit less strapped for cash. So while very few people actually want to lose a parent, it does benefit the kids/grandkids.*

So those are some thoughts - any others?

*Note: I am by no means suggesting that these older folks don't deserve to live or anything like that. I generally don't consider myself the judge of things like that, particularly for people who've done nothing wrong. So please spare me and others inappropriate vitriol on that particular point. This point is intended from a "here's what happened" perspective, not a "here's what's right" or "what should happen" perspective.

If you are going to voice this type of a radical opinion on a public forum, I believe people have the right to respond to it with the same candor.  As long as there are no personal attacks, we should be free to voice our differing perspectives. 

As it stands, there are 500,000+ families, friends, and communities who have firsthand experience being separated from their loved ones as they die alone on a ventilator, struggling for air.  It's heartbreaking.  Therefore, I can't in good conscience support this particular suggestion as a benefit for a bit of money and extra resources.  In my opinion, if someone earned their money and paid their taxes throughout their lifetime, they have every right to use it.

One area I do think has benefited from Covid-19 is better awareness and practices of hygiene.  In a pre-Covid world I think the majority of people didn't take it seriously enough.  It's still not perfect, but it has improved.  My hope is that people will continue these new behaviors, and perhaps help to curve the mass spread of other viruses, like the common cold.  If we are talking about financial benefits, surely a reduction is sick leave for businesses would be preferable financial benefit of Covid-19?

[basil67]

- Definitely more working from home for those who's job is suitable.   A few days working from home would be of particular use for those who commute in terms of work/life balance

- Better inclusion in classrooms for kids who can't come to class because of distance, illness or suspension

- Hopefully people will stay home when they've got a virus instead of infecting their whole office

With older people, I think the answer depends on their general state of health and personal wishes.  This would be covered under a DNR if they so wish.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by basil67

[central]

Mortgage forebearance is a plus.

 

[thefooloftheyear]

People eat more and move less, even less than they already did before this, so if the virus doesn't get them diabetes, obesity,, heart disease etc will.....and the mental anguish, depression and solitude will take out some more as well...And with less sex, less kids....

Maybe the world population will start to fall off...That's what a lot of scientists think would have done the planet in, so maybe that's a plus...

TFY

Edited July 12, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[basil67]

Found this discussion about city planning in the news today:

"Post-COVID, the role of cities will need to be re-imagined as individuals and companies embrace remote and virtual working in a very significant way," she said.

The City of Sydney estimates there had been a 90 per cent drop in the number of people on central Sydney streets since the start of the pandemic. Precincts such as Barangaroo face an uncertain future as office workers slowly return to their places of work.

Ms James spoke to The Sun-Herald ahead of a Committee for Sydney event on Monday where she will discuss the future of cities following the coronavirus pandemic. She said companies were now realising that working from home did not lead to less productivity, while employees had more time for health and fitness or their family.

"People will work more from where they live, and spend more time in their local communities," Ms James said. "No-one wants to commute for an hour if it means being potentially exposed to a life-threatening illness so working from home has become the only choice in some locations."

She said the COVID-19 crisis was likely to reduce the use of and need for office space and public transport, and alter demand for amenities in suburbs"

Source: https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-one-wants-to-commute-why-sydney-must-change-after-pandemic-20200710-p55atv.html

Retail in the suburbs seems to be picking up, but the CBD (downtown) is much like a ghost town without office workers.   My husband works in a tower and they simply can't get all the workers in and out each day in the lifts while using social distancing.   He's going to be working from home for what I'm guessing is the medium term.     Likewise, the limitations on how many people can get on public transport are limiting the number of people going to the CBD.  

Is anyone writing here living in high rise apartment buildings in areas which are strict on social distancing?  How are you managing entry and exit?   I've got visions of you queuing for a turn in the lift.

[introverted1]

Personal benefits:

• WFH is great.  I've been doing it since 2012 but my current employer (a throw-back to the stone ages) is opposed.  Covid has forced them to accept it, at least temporarily.
• More time to read
• My house has never been cleaner
• My garden is getting lots of love
• More savings given that the only thing to spend money on is groceries

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by introverted1

[Philosopher]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Found this discussion about city planning in the news today:

"Post-COVID, the role of cities will need to be re-imagined as individuals and companies embrace remote and virtual working in a very significant way," she said.

Retail in the suburbs seems to be picking up, but the CBD (downtown) is much like a ghost town without office workers.   My husband works in a tower and they simply can't get all the workers in and out each day in the lifts while using social distancing.   He's going to be working from home for what I'm guessing is the medium term.     Likewise, the limitations on how many people can get on public transport are limiting the number of people going to the CBD.  

Is anyone writing here living in high rise apartment buildings in areas which are strict on social distancing?  How are you managing entry and exit?   I've got visions of you queuing for a turn in the lift.

The working from home one is a tricky one I think. If workers have a genuine choice of working from home or in an office and governments / city planners can find new sustainable uses for the offices that are no longer required that draws people into downtown areas then it has the potential to be a big benefit. Workers will be happier and more productive while cities will continue to fairly vibrant and prosperous.

However if it is not managed well then you could get a situation where a lot of workers are forced to work at home, which may not suit their circumstances and downtowns and inner city areas become increasingly run down due to less activity in these areas. Run down urban areas tend to have problems such as crime, homelessness, unsightly and unwelcoming neighbourhoods, middle classes moving to the suburbs resulting in increasingly poor neighbourhoods and in the worst case, rioting. 

[snowboy91]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

Is anyone writing here living in high rise apartment buildings in areas which are strict on social distancing?  How are you managing entry and exit?   I've got visions of you queuing for a turn in the lift.

That would be me.

When high level restrictions are enforced (like right now), we are restricted to 2 people per lift. Which becomes a nightmare quickly when one lift is out for maintenance or for moving in/out. Communal areas like the pool and gym (which we pay for through our rent) are unable to be used. I would happily use the stairs but they are locked for anyone going upward for "security" reasons. (it is possible to go down but it's essentially a fire escape - you get very funny looks once you exit the ground floor).

The apartment is way too small and poorly ventilated to be living in for days at a time without leaving, or for having 2 people working from home for months since there's barely room for 1 desk, let alone 2. But that's just how they've been designed for 50+ years, so we have no choice.

[Ellener]

I think from a love partnership relationship perspective- pandemic isolation where someone copes with it well is a good pre-requisite for a new relationship search ie. willing and able to be alone and wait for a good fit to come along ( that looks rude written down somehow! but that too I suppose...) 

I'm working on that now, day at a time. 

 

[QuietRiot]

On 7/11/2020 at 7:47 PM, La.Primavera said:

 

One area I do think has benefited from Covid-19 is better awareness and practices of hygiene.  

Exactly...why? Because people in general are gross. I would remember using the public restroom and seeing poop smears and boogers on the stall walls...among other things id see like a floating, poop filled diaper in a water park.

Me and my family tried a water park ONE time, and after we left, my dad called it "Urine-ville" because he could smell the urine of people peeing in the water.

[mark clemson]

On 7/11/2020 at 4:47 PM, La.Primavera said:

If you are going to voice this type of a radical opinion on a public forum, I believe people have the right to respond to it with the same candor.  As long as there are no personal attacks, we should be free to voice our differing perspectives. 

As it stands, there are 500,000+ families, friends, and communities who have firsthand experience being separated from their loved ones as they die alone on a ventilator, struggling for air.  It's heartbreaking.  Therefore, I can't in good conscience support this particular suggestion as a benefit for a bit of money and extra resources.  In my opinion, if someone earned their money and paid their taxes throughout their lifetime, they have every right to use it.

I have no problem with that - it's exactly personal attacks from people making assumptions about how I think that I was trying to circumvent.

I definitely agree that from the subjective perspective of (the vast majority of) those involved it certainly won't feel like the benefits are worth the "price".

 

[Ollie180]

On 7/11/2020 at 10:33 PM, Ellener said:

Except they lose the human warmth and wisdom of their predecessors. 

Money doesn't teach or love us much. 

I’d like this 10x if I could!! So true!

 

 

Personally, and not to be negative, I can’t find many ‘benefits’ of all this... people talk about less pollution and cleaner sky’s - they forget about the HUGE devastating surge in poaching throughout the pandemic, and the halt on many great conservation projects and charitable donations!

I think.. the benefit that I can find, is that right now (and hopefully going forward) people seem to be more appreciative of each other!! Maybe now We’re waking up to see how much we took human contact and socialisation for granted and how, when all’s said and done, those things are maybe the most important things in our lives!!

[regine_phalange]

I'm hoping to see:

More people moving to the countryside for remote work, therefore shopping in small businesses and supporting the local economy.

Focus on self-sufficiency instead of exporting, where possible... One tragic example is lack of PPE for healthcare staff in the UK.

Moving away from consumerism and the industry of image. All these celebrities tweeting pictures from their mansions, while all the low wage key workers have been carrying the weight of the workd on their shoulders. . Just infuriates me.

Investment on healthcare and proactively promoting a healthy lifestyle for everyone. While this is not a guarantee, it could help lower risks for many people.

This pandemic has shown how little value the senior members of society seem to have for public authorities. These people spent their lives contributing, supporting the economy and raising us, and we just let them die. It's very very wrong and it makes me sad. They deserve better and I hope we give it to them.

 

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, regine_phalange said:

I'm hoping to see:

More people moving to the countryside for remote work, therefore shopping in small businesses and supporting the local economy.

I live in the country.
Please stay away.
The last thing I want are congested roads and people everywhere...

[Philosopher]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I live in the country.
Please stay away.
The last thing I want are congested roads and people everywhere...

If loads of city dwellers move to the country, then you will end up with much of the countryside be replaced by miles of miles of suburban housing estates. In a crowded country like the UK this will just result in less countryside for all to enjoy. 

[regine_phalange]

Well, there are places that could use more support. For example, many greek islands are deserted in winter because they only survive on tourism. But if they have more permanent inhabitants, then the local economy could do better all year round. There are also areas in the south of Italy that try to attract inhabitants. And I'm sure in many more countries.

[Prudence V]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I live in the country.
Please stay away.
The last thing I want are congested roads and people everywhere...

I also live in the country. It’s been plenty congested since lockdown, as few people are commuting to work and the quiet, narrow lanes have been heaving with people jogging, cycling, walking their dogs, etc - not to mention all the delivery vehicles. It’s haymaking season, so there are loads of tractors and hay bailers and the usual sheep trailers and it’s been like Piccadilly Circus.