What's with these guys and casual last minute meet-ups?

[Blind-Sided]

12 hours ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I DO NOT need to have a babysitter in order to please guys who cannot plan things in advance. What the fu**!? 

WOW... you went way off the deep end. Maybe this is the real issue.  I never said you had to go date every guy at the drop of a hat.  I'm just saying that a coffee date on short notice is kind of normal for OLD.

Now... on the point of the babysitter... I'm a single dad who has his kids 86% of the time.  I feel your pain with this.  Since you said you didn't have one set up... I just suggested it would be a good idea to have one available. 

[Hopeful30]

On 7/11/2020 at 3:26 PM, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I've had this happening twice with two different guys the past 2 weeks, so I'm wondering if this is normal?

I met both online, one of them he invited me for a coffee and asked when can I go during the week, and I said any day of the week in the morning is fine to me. He didn't proceed with telling me a specific day that he can meet, but then on Monday he sends me a message at 12pm saying he is close to where I live, and if I want to meet up that afternoon... I asked him what was the part of "I can meet in the morning" that he didn't understand!? And he was surprised by my response to him. It was like he completely ignored what I said.

The second guy was yesterday. We messaged each other for a few days and yesterday he sends me a message at 4pm saying he's done for the day, he's free and if I want to meet up, and that I can go and meet him at a coffee shop where he lives... I told him that I don't do casual "let's meet up now" with guys I've never seen before, I like to arrange to meet in advance and with respect. He was also very surprised by my reaction.

I just feel that these guys is all about them. It's when it's convenient to them to meet, either because they're near where I live, or have nothing to do, whatever. 

They don't know how to properly treat a woman and respect her time, arranging something in advance. It's like they're meeting up with their guy friends! I feel this is the sort of thing you do with close friends when you already have a relationship built with them, not with dating someone new!

I don't like this at all! What do you think about this?

I've noticed this is the majority of men I've met online, and I presume that's why they go online (too lazy to make the effort in real life). 

[Ruby Slippers]

You can still meet men online who have a serious approach and the basic ability to plan a nice date. 

You definitely have to sift through many pieces of hay to find those needles in the haystack. And you need to be very clear with yourself on what you're looking for, be prepared to tune out a lot of noise till you get a good signal, and not get frustrated or hung up on the many no-gos.

[girlnextdoor2020]

7 hours ago, enigma32 said:

@CaliforniaGirlone person can't change the rules. To quote Omar from HBO's The Wire, "The game's out there and it play or get played."  Most of the guys I know on Tinder swipe right on almost every girl they see. They don't even bother looking. You have to think about it from our perspective. Why should a guy take the time to look at all your pics or read whatever profile you have written, if you even bothered? Most likely, if we do that and we try to match with you, you won't match back. If you do match back, most likely you won't message us, or reply to our messages. And then, if a woman actually will chat with us...she will probably just flake or has no intentions of ever meeting anyway. So for most guys, the less time and energy we invest in any one profile online, the better. 

What I always did was take a brief glance over a profile (I read very fast) then send a simple yet hopefully witty sounding message to everyone even remotely attractive/interesting unless they had very obvious dealbreakers. If she replies, then my level of investment will match hers but I am going to push for a meetup ASAP to weed out the pen pals and time wasters. 

Those guys that want to meet up ASAP I never but never bother to meet them.

I need to text or talk on the phone a little just to "feel them". I want to know we have things in common, there's a conversation that flows, etc. So yes at least do that for a few days then meet. A guy who wants to meet up right away without doing that sounds desperate. He either wants to get la** or just doesn't value his time or himself much that he goes and meets anyone who says yes. And that's why nothing is special to these people.

Actually I've had a guy saying I shouldn't be on those dating apps if I am looking for something serious, or at the very least go instead on a paid app that is higher profile, since guys there are making a bigger effort anyway. Maybe he's right.

Anyway I would love to meet someone in real life and not through OLD.

Edited July 13, 2020 by girlnextdoor2020

[dangerous]

As a guy, who is open to a serious relationship, I personally think a coffee date is a useful tool. 

Once I get a match and have exchanged a few messages and establish that we have something in common (and are local) then I would suggest a drink or a coffee. This is purely to meet and see if we like eachother/ get on. You can never tell if you are a genuine match by text/online, you need to meet and see how you both are. Then you can decide whether you will progress to a second (longer) date or simply move on.

As to the question of short notice? I will try to arrange a time, similar to the way the OP did, eg one morning. But I don't see a major problem if either of you deviate from this, if, for example, you find yourself unexpectedly free or especially local. Of course i don't know the background or tone of the OP's conversations up to that point, but I would make a soft suggestion to meet, and if the lady was ok with it great, if not convenient then that's fine too: I certainly don't see a problem asking.

And if the lady, gave me a hostile response, like that she told me already, then I would take that as a red flag, and move on.

But that's me, and my instincts are generally pretty accurate these days.

[girlnextdoor2020]

1 hour ago, dangerous said:

As a guy, who is open to a serious relationship, I personally think a coffee date is a useful tool. 

Once I get a match and have exchanged a few messages and establish that we have something in common (and are local) then I would suggest a drink or a coffee. This is purely to meet and see if we like eachother/ get on. You can never tell if you are a genuine match by text/online, you need to meet and see how you both are. Then you can decide whether you will progress to a second (longer) date or simply move on.

As to the question of short notice? I will try to arrange a time, similar to the way the OP did, eg one morning. But I don't see a major problem if either of you deviate from this, if, for example, you find yourself unexpectedly free or especially local. Of course i don't know the background or tone of the OP's conversations up to that point, but I would make a soft suggestion to meet, and if the lady was ok with it great, if not convenient then that's fine too: I certainly don't see a problem asking.

And if the lady, gave me a hostile response, like that she told me already, then I would take that as a red flag, and move on.

But that's me, and my instincts are generally pretty accurate these days.

I think that if the guy said something like "I know you said you wanted to meet in the morning, but I happen to be free this afternoon and near you, so would you be free to meet"?

That would have been a different story. Because he ACKNOWLEDGED that I said morning previously, he listens and respects that. But he is around and free, so if I am too, why not meet. 

THAT is very different from not acknowledging anything, completely ignore it and ask if I want to meet in the afternoon like I didn't mention morning before when HE asked me when can I meet. This is entitlement and not giving a s***.

So if guys don't want a rude response, maybe they should make the effort of listening and not being rude either.

Also, if he completely ignores I said morning and I say that I told him already, I don't see that as hostile. I see that within the same respect he is giving me. Some people only look at how people react to them, but don't look at how they treat others.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by girlnextdoor2020

[Velvet teddy]

9 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I think that if the guy said something like "I know you said you wanted to meet in the morning, but I happen to be free this afternoon and near you, so would you be free to meet"?

That would have been a different story. Because he ACKNOWLEDGED that I said morning previously, he listens and respects that. But he is around and free, so if I am too, why not meet. 

THAT is very different from not acknowledging anything, completely ignore it and ask if I want to meet in the afternoon like I didn't mention morning before when HE asked me when can I meet. This is entitlement and not giving a s***.

So if guys don't want a rude response, maybe they should make the effort of listening and not being rude either.

Also, if he completely ignores I said morning and I say that I told him already, I don't see that as hostile. I see that within the same respect he is giving me. Some people only look at how people react to them, but don't look at how they treat others.

 

I get where you're coming from. But trust me if you read in to things like this while OLD, im sure about 99.9% of people will disappoint  you. 

From what I've heard about OLD, he was probably one of the polite ones.

[girlnextdoor2020]

9 minutes ago, Velvet teddy said:

I get where you're coming from. But trust me if you read in to things like this while OLD, im sure about 99.9% of people will disappoint  you. 

From what I've heard about OLD, he was probably one of the polite ones.

Agree, that's why yesterday I deleted all my OLD profiles. I'm done wasting my energy into this.

[girlnextdoor2020]

1 hour ago, Velvet teddy said:

From what I've heard about OLD, he was probably one of the polite ones.

Actually, I don't think so.

The guys that are openly rude are more easy to see how they are and move on. But I've noticed that in OLD there's a huge "community" of covert narcissists, the guys that are "nice" but then show subtle signs of being self-absorbed and selfish and don't care about the other.

One of those signs is like these two guys, who completely ignored when I said I can meet, and wanted me to meet them at their convenience. THIS is way more dangerous than the openly rude guys or idiots. Because if a woman is not really awaken, it can fall for it easily thinking they are "nice guys eager to meet me", when they are complete narcissists and online predators. 

I'm not saying these two guys are, but the red flags are not good.

Edited July 13, 2020 by girlnextdoor2020

[Velvet teddy]

53 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Actually, I don't think so.

The guys that are openly rude are more easy to see how they are and move on. But I've noticed that in OLD there's a huge "community" of covert narcissists, the guys that are "nice" but then show subtle signs of being self-absorbed and selfish and don't care about the other.

One of those signs is like these two guys, who completely ignored when I said I can meet, and wanted me to meet them at their convenience. THIS is way more dangerous than the openly rude guys or idiots. Because if a woman is not really awaken, it can fall for it easily thinking they are "nice guys eager to meet me", when they are complete narcissists and online predators. 

I'm not saying these two guys are, but the red flags are not good.

True. I've come across covert narcissists myself. 

But what is the solution then?

You have to live and learn or ultimately give up on meeting anyone  altogether. 

Out of curiosity what did the man respond to you? After you reminded him about being unable to meet later than  the AM. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Velvet teddy

[girlnextdoor2020]

26 minutes ago, Velvet teddy said:

True. I've come across covert narcissists myself. 

But what is the solution then?

You have to live and learn or ultimately give up on meeting anyone  altogether. 

Out of curiosity what did the man respond to you? After you reminded him about being unable to meet later than  the AM. 

Well I have been living and learned that these OLD interactions are just draining my energy and making me exhausted and bitter. So yes I am giving up on these apps. I'm not giving up on meeting someone thought, that can happen anytime anywhere.

I've already said what the guys responded to me on page 5 on this thread, but here it is:

"Well the first guy said he didn't understand I wanted to meet in the mornings and blamed it on communication through text message that leads to misunderstandings... I asked him if you think that why didn't you call then for us to arrange to meet? He didn't reply to that, and then I showed him the print screen of my reply to him saying "I can do any day during the week in the morning", to show it is pretty understandable to anyone. I felt he was gaslighting me, so we stopped conversation and then blocked  and deleted him.

The second guy said sorry but was veryyyyy condescending, left me a voice message talking like I'm 10 years old or something. Blocked and deleted."

Edited July 13, 2020 by girlnextdoor2020

[Velvet teddy]

9 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Well I ave been living and learned that these OLD interactions are just draining my energy and making mew exhausted and bitter. So yes I am giving up on these apps. I'm not giving up on meeting someone thought, that can happen anytime anywhere.

I've already said what the guys responded to me on page 5 on this thread, but here it is:

"Well the first guy said he didn't understand I wanted to meet in the mornings and blamed it on communication through text message that leads to misunderstandings... I asked him if you think that why didn't you call then for us to arrange to meet? He didn't reply to that, and then I showed him the print screen of my reply to him saying "I can do any day during the week in the morning", to show it is pretty understandable to anyone. I felt he was gaslighting me, so we stopped conversation and then blocked  and deleted him.

The second guy said sorry but was veryyyyy condescending, left me a voice message talking like I'm 10 years old or something. Blocked and deleted."

Ok fair enough. 

I mean looking at the exchanges one could assume anything  really. You could be right in what you concluded, but also wrong.

Anyway, if you don't want to date via old and would rather meet someone more organically..then go for it. 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Velvet teddy

[Versacehottie]

19 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Sorry (not negating everything else you said) but what's with the continuing "if she's going to be nit-picky about the timing" and similar comments? That's starting to stick out with me because it's been said so many times. The intimation seems to be that she's stuck in a time frame just to be picky or controlling or something. She needs that time because that's when she doesn't have her daughter. Not as some sort of control freak or inflexibility issue.

But all the PA little comments about how she's a picky little princess or even, as one poster said, "a B" simply for needing a particular time frame to date are pretty off-base, IMO.

whew, this thread is getting exhausting.  Ok, to explain why i've continued to comment so far is that I'm not one for supporting behavior and telling an OP she is right when I believe she is wrong and is in need of perhaps another perspective-- a common perspective-- and that would help her get what she wants in the future, ie to date a guy she can be in a serious relationship with.  She will have to get that off the ground with a first date and i think her ways are going to prevent her from doing so. She can only change herself & assuming she is here for some growth or advice.  If this is just a rant on guys who dare take a chance on a spontaneous date invite and how annoying it is to her, those are senseless to me (and honestly more evidence that her reaction is out of line with what was asked or that she is not in a good headspace).

I'm definitely not being passive aggressive lol so I here it is directly if there is any confusion to be cleared up. She is absolutely currently being nitpicky and unreasonable (about some of the ways she is approaching these dates) IMO.  Even both guys were confused enough in that they did the same thing.  I think that's because in part they left that they will go out in the future open ended when it was first brought up that it wasn't nailed down to an exact date/time, in spite of her specifying that mornings are best for her. Coincidence or related?  

Definitely don't want this to be about me or other people on this thread who are offering up valid opinions & perspective. (not mention there's misinterpretation if you think my position is that she can't need a certain time frame to date cause it isn't that and as you said i've stated it enough times above), nor should it be.  She'd be wise to at least consider other perspectives & reasons for why this happens if she doesn't want to keep facing similar outcomes in the future if she ACTUALLY wants to come up with solutions.  I predict she will get similar results if she doesn't get more flexible in certain things (morning dates are still great, writing a guy off just cause he asked, not so much).  In the subsequent posts made, I've seen more instances of problematic inflexibility and ironic duplicities but I'm out.  OP is going to stop dating and wait until she is in a better place which is a good idea; she has a date with a promising guy, hopefully that will work out.  Good luck 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Versacehottie

[poppyfields]

V, it's not even about a spontaneous date, that is what I originally thought too.

Spontaneous dates are fine, even fun!

It's actually about a man, in this case two men, who couldn't be bothered even reading her text messages saying she is available in the mornings.

Not acknowledging, totally disregarding it.  She wrote this in her original post, and confirmed in subsequent posts later in the thread.

To me that's just rude and indicative of a man playing the numbers versus trying to connect with one particular women, listening to what she tells him, acknowledging it and respecting it.  Which is what she is looking for and wants, not a man playing the numbers. 

Given how they both responded after she was forced to remind them about her morning availability and why, she dodged two bullets imo.

Edited July 13, 2020 by poppyfields

[girlnextdoor2020]

2 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

whew, this thread is getting exhausting.  Ok, to explain why i've continued to comment so far is that I'm not one for supporting behavior and telling an OP she is right when I believe she is wrong and is in need of perhaps another perspective-- a common perspective-- and that would help her get what she wants in the future, ie to date a guy she can be in a serious relationship with.  She will have to get that off the ground with a first date and i think her ways are going to prevent her from doing so. She can only change herself & assuming she is here for some growth or advice.  If this is just a rant on guys who dare take a chance on a spontaneous date invite and how annoying it is to her, those are senseless to me (and honestly more evidence that her reaction is out of line with what was asked or that she is not in a good headspace).

I'm definitely not being passive aggressive lol so I here it is directly if there is any confusion to be cleared up. She is absolutely currently being nitpicky and unreasonable (about some of the ways she is approaching these dates) IMO.  Even both guys were confused enough in that they did the same thing.  I think that's because in part they left that they will go out in the future open ended when it was first brought up that it wasn't nailed down to an exact date/time, in spite of her specifying that mornings are best for her. Coincidence or related?  

Definitely don't want this to be about me or other people on this thread who are offering up valid opinions & perspective. (not mention there's misinterpretation if you think my position is that she can't need a certain time frame to date cause it isn't that and as you said i've stated it enough times above), nor should it be.  She'd be wise to at least consider other perspectives & reasons for why this happens if she doesn't want to keep facing similar outcomes in the future if she ACTUALLY wants to come up with solutions.  I predict she will get similar results if she doesn't get more flexible in certain things (morning dates are still great, writing a guy off just cause he asked, not so much).  In the subsequent posts made, I've seen more instances of problematic inflexibility and ironic duplicities but I'm out.  OP is going to stop dating and wait until she is in a better place which is a good idea; she has a date with a promising guy, hopefully that will work out.  Good luck 

Thank you, but I don't agree with you and I'll tell you why.

In the past I used to think I need to be flexible and not nitpicky and unreasonable. The result of that? I ended up going on horrible dates and even dated guys that were not a match to me. Even narcissists.

I have worked on my self-esteem and self-love and I know what I want now. So, that was the change I needed. To know what I want and trust my intuition and my gut feeling, which I do now and am avoiding getting into bad situations like in the past.

Do not underestimate a woman's intuition. When we feel something is off, it's because something is off and nowadays I don't want to lose a second of my time and energy confirming it, I just do next. I truly believe that with the right guy, things will fit and feel good.

Edited July 13, 2020 by girlnextdoor2020

[girlnextdoor2020]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

V, it's not even about a spontaneous date, that is what I originally thought too.

Spontaneous dates are fine, even fun!

It's actually about a man, in this case two men, who couldn't be bothered even reading her text messages saying she is available in the mornings.

Not acknowledging, totally disregarding it.  She wrote this in her original post, and confirmed in subsequent posts later in the thread.

To me that's just rude and indicative of a man playing the numbers versus trying to connect with one particular women, listening to what she tells him, acknowledging it and respecting it.  Which is what she is looking for and wants, not a man playing the numbers. 

Given how they both responded after she was forced to remind them about her morning availability and why, she dodged two bullets imo.

Exactly.

[pinkpaw]

26 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Thank you, but I don't agree with you and I'll tell you why.

In the past I used to think I need to be flexible and not nitpicky and unreasonable. The result of that? I ended up going on horrible dates and even dated guys that were not a match to me. Even narcissists.

I have worked on my self-esteem and self-love and I know what I want now. So, that was the change I needed. To know what I want and trust my intuition and my gut feeling, which I do now and am avoiding getting into bad situations like in the past.

Do not underestimate a woman's intuition. When we feel something is off, it's because something is off and nowadays I don't want to lose a second of my time and energy confirming it, I just do next. I truly believe that with the right guy, things will fit and feel good.

I can understand this. I do think when we are younger, a lot of females worry about being seen as 'too demanding' or not easygoing and think that by being relaxed about things that actually bother them, it shows us as that fun-loving, care-free dreamgirl type. Which, actually, is nonsense. You need to know what you want/need, and have the self-esteem and self-awareness to follow up on that. I feel like the dating world doesn't necessarily magically adapt when we make those transitions however, so it gets very frustrating trying to implement authenticity and boundaries in the stagnant dating scene. Lots of frogs, as someone has said. Regular breaks advisable.. 

[Ruby Slippers]

3 minutes ago, pinkpaw said:

I do think when we are younger, a lot of females worry about being seen as 'too demanding' or not easygoing and think that by being relaxed about things that actually bother them, it shows us as that fun-loving, care-free dreamgirl type. Which, actually, is nonsense. You need to know what you want/need, and have the self-esteem and self-awareness to follow up on that. 

I wonder if women are biologically wired to be more compliant and agreeable in the beginning, so they have a better chance of securing the investment of the man. Probably if a man was aware up front of everything a woman really wanted from him, he'd be a lot less likely to get involved in the first place. If her many wants become clearer only after he's invested, he's less likely to leave because he's already invested a lot - the "sunk cost" principle at work.

I can say from my own experience that it's naturally much easier to overlook potentially problematic issues early on. Then over time they become more aggravating and hard to live with. 

[pinkpaw]

26 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I wonder if women are biologically wired to be more compliant and agreeable in the beginning, so they have a better chance of securing the investment of the man. Probably if a man was aware up front of everything a woman really wanted from him, he'd be a lot less likely to get involved in the first place. If her many wants become clearer only after he's invested, he's less likely to leave because he's already invested a lot - the "sunk cost" principle at work.

I can say from my own experience that it's naturally much easier to overlook potentially problematic issues early on. Then over time they become more aggravating and hard to live with. 

Same here. I prefer to not waste my time and effort anymore because if it ultimately leads in disappointment for reasons I already saw and chose to overlook then that's even more frustrating/ 

I'm not sure if its biological wiring or environmental....all that advice to be carefree, seem fun, don't come across too needy etc....and in movies, showing completely unrealistic ides too. Maybe it worked better in a patriarchal setting initially for women to be compliant and agreeable and then over time we as women adapted to that by going along with it until we secure their investment lol...who knows?

[dangerous]

Now I am going to be controversial..

To the OP, and some who have agreed about saying that the men didn't have the courtesy to read and take on board her morning availability statement: I do feel, in isolation, this is not a big deal at all, and that seeing problems here is over-reacting: as an online dater, until I meet and start a relationship, I have no investment or responsibility to you, and you have no right to make demands on me. OLD is fundamentally a numbers game and should be taken light-heartedly. It is when you meet that real life takes over. 

If you are upset, angry, feel entitled to anything other than common decency, then you are not in the right mindset for OLD, at least not at the current time, in your current mindset.

 

[elaine567]

Ok , but when a man does not seem to be able to read or does not listen or is incapable of understanding or is a "chancer" or  a liar or a condescending jerk, then that is not usually the type of man a woman is impressed with.
First impressions are important and they are usually very important to women looking for something serious.

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, dangerous said:

Now I am going to be controversial..

To the OP, and some who have agreed about saying that the men didn't have the courtesy to read and take on board her morning availability statement: I do feel, in isolation, this is not a big deal at all, and that seeing problems here is over-reacting: as an online dater, until I meet and start a relationship, I have no investment or responsibility to you, and you have no right to make demands on me. OLD is fundamentally a numbers game and should be taken light-heartedly. It is when you meet that real life takes over. 

If you are upset, angry, feel entitled to anything other than common decency, then you are not in the right mindset for OLD, at least not at the current time, in your current mindset.

 

Okay that's you, fair enough. But that is not the mindset of everyone and by telling her she is "over-reacting," you are invalidating and dismissing her reality, and gaslighting her.

She has the right to reject men with your mindset without being told she is "over-reacting."

It's demeaning and debasing; date however you want, and allow others to date how they want without gaslighting them or arrogantly dismissing what works for them, just because you happen to see it as "no big deal." 

Edited July 14, 2020 by poppyfields

[Blind-Sided]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Okay that's you, fair enough. But that is not the mindset of everone and by telling her she is "over-reacting," you are invalidating and dismissing her reality, and gaslighting her.

She has the right to reject men with your mindset without being told she is "oner-reacting."

It's demeaning and debasing; date however you want, and allow others to date how they want without gaslighting them or arrogantly dismissing what works for them.

Sure... you are right.  She can feel any way she wants to.  But we are not "Dismissing" her, or "Gaslighting" her at all.  She came here  ASKING US for input.  And, several people's input was she has the wrong mindset for OLD.  She can have the stance that she can expect more from a potential partner... but she also has to look at the reality of that's just how a lot of people treat OLD... and she has to accept it when using OLD as a dating method. (just like ghosting, and the random dick pic) 

[dangerous]

12 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Okay that's you, fair enough. But that is not the mindset of everyone and by telling her she is "over-reacting," you are invalidating and dismissing her reality, and gaslighting her.

She has the right to reject men with your mindset without being told she is "over-reacting."

It's demeaning and debasing; date however you want, and allow others to date how they want without gaslighting them or arrogantly dismissing what works for them, just because you happen to see it as "no big deal." 

Wow! I was just giving an alternative view... this is a forum after all. 

Gaslighting, arrogantly dismissing? Not me.

[d0nnivain]

9 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

She has the right to reject men with your mindset without being told she is "oner-reacting."

Rejecting people is fine.  Losing your sh. .   over some stranger on the internet who you haven't even met yet is over reacting.  Sure you get to be miffed & think "what a jerk", maybe slam the phone down (which is so not satisfying on a cell) but it's something that needs to be shaken off in 5 minutes.  Holding on to resentment over some slight by an anonymous person on the internet is over-reacting.

The OP did admit that she's not in the right frame of mind to date right now so that is contributing to the intensity of her responses to nonsense that would have otherwise rolled off her back.