RW M Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 I've mostly used Bumble, where of course the woman has to send the first message. On other sites it does tend to be the man who initiates I've found, except occasionally if she is really interested she'll message first. I wish women would do more often tbh, as I'm fairly shy, but the trafitional roles are still relevant I guess.
basil67 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 @CaliforniaGirl I love the unicef quote. Sums up my view perfectly 1
basil67 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 2:30 AM, Hopeful30 said: I hear you girl. Men in the West appear to have lost a connection with their masculine energy, which is all about action, doing, chasing, taking the lead. You should travel. Anywhere I step off a plane that's not north America, I have plenty of suitors anywhere I go, and I am never sexless for this long (3 years now, and that's when I moved back to Toronto, 3 years ago). Don't take it personally. You've got plenty of suitors outside America because a lot of men around the world have a reputation of hitting on anything that moves. In other nations, the men save their efforts for women who really attract them. The idea that being discerning is connected to lost masculine energy is laughable. Case in point: daughter has an indie style but her best friend wears pretty dresses, make up and heels. Best friend gets hit on All The Time. Multiple times a day. The only time daughter gets hit on is when she's in an indie area or activity...which isn't often. It's not the men - it's how you present. 1
mortensorchid Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 I am rather curious about this myself. I have had guys I have met on dating websites tell me that I was the first woman to ever send a wink or a like. Quite honestly, there had been times when I was bored or wanted something to happen so I initiated the conversations to start. And other times guys have messaged or liked me first. Results? The same honestly 90% of the time like all OLDs - you meet someone in a bar, restaurant or coffee shop, have an evening and then... you never hear a word from that person ever again. I think what matters is if you hear from that person and have a 2nd date. But remember the 48 hour rule (ladies): if you haven't heard from him within 48 hours of the first get together, you will never hear from him again. He might call or text a few days later, you might have a 2nd get together with him, but he doesn't really care if you say yes or no to the 2nd get together. Old fashioned of me? Or anyone else? Well, a guy who likes you can't wait to call you ASAP. A guy who says something like "I want to find something else to do other than play cards with my 4 friends on Saturday night", lets the woman choose all the things they are doing for fun, lets something like this go on for 6 WEEKS without even asking the woman's last name, is a complete and utter wimp. Is that what you want? The answer is no, but, it's rough.
Ami1uwant Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 Dating needs to look at this like the racedebate...except women can fix it by taking the initiative and asking guys on dates...only them will they finally get it.
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 3 hours ago, RW M said: I've mostly used Bumble, where of course the woman has to send the first message. On other sites it does tend to be the man who initiates I've found, except occasionally if she is really interested she'll message first. I wish women would do more often tbh, as I'm fairly shy, but the trafitional roles are still relevant I guess. Men who want to be approached and not the other way around should probably go this route.
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said: Dating needs to look at this like the racedebate...except women can fix it by taking the initiative and asking guys on dates...only them will they finally get it. 1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said: Dating needs to look at this like the racedebate...except women can fix it by taking the initiative and asking guys on dates...only them will they finally get it. When guys stop spamming as many chicks as possible on dating sites as a numbers game, they probably will. Or, will more often. Women do make the first move. Less often for sure but this thread is basically saying NO woman approaches. Huh?
Ami1uwant Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: When guys stop spamming as many chicks as possible on dating sites as a numbers game, they probably will. Or, will more often. Women do make the first move. Less often for sure but this thread is basically saying NO woman approaches. Huh? Over my 20+ yrs of dating through some form or other OLD... yes some women initiate. It’s rare. Not all guys are spamming chicks I fo think many women don’t get what initiating a relationship is likely they are too quick to judge.
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said: Over my 20+ yrs of dating through some form or other OLD... yes some women initiate. It’s rare. Not all guys are spamming chicks I fo think many women don’t get what initiating a relationship is likely they are too quick to judge. Definitely not all guys are spamming chicks. But enough are that it gets ridiculous, some women are fielding "'sup"s left, right and center. For a woman who isn't comfortable approaching in the first place, and that's a percentage of women, where is the incentive to start approaching? Even so women may approach, including those who get lots of approaches. But overall this seems to be OLD. A bajillion men, and women getting approaches even if the guy really isn't keen. I've seen it said in here many times. "This girl answered me but I'm not really that interested, I just swiped because what the heck." I think someone here said this within the past couple of days, actually. Can't remember who. OLD is weird in any number of ways and this is one of them. Edited July 11, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
basil67 Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Ami1uwant said: Dating needs to look at this like the racedebate...except women can fix it by taking the initiative and asking guys on dates...only them will they finally get it. Women can fix it by taking the initiative? What exactly is "it"? And why would women change what they are doing anyway? 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 And with all that said I stand by what I stated way back at the beginning of this thread. Every person is different. Every single man. Every single woman. Hard-and-fast rules are archaic; some people follow some of them; some, all of them; some, none of them. And I still feel that it's tough to play coy if you're on OLD. You're already showing prospective dates that's what you want. So what's a little wink of hello going to hurt? You're on OLD seeking a match instead of waiting for someone to find you. Technically, you've already approached. JMO. 2
Hopeful30 Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 14 hours ago, basil67 said: In other nations, the men save their efforts for women who really attract them. Exactly! That's why travel is the best way to meet these men. They come to you.
SumGuy Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 11:05 PM, Colorful said: I am not someone who throw myself at anyone. It's fine those men just get the women who throw themselves at them. I don't want to be with hard to deal with and difficult men. Life is short. No point for me to be with anyone who doesn't value and cherish me. Your preferences are your own, and we each have what does it for us...and if it works for you then who is to say. However...messaging someone first in and of itself is not "throwing" yourself at them, again you are on a dating site that is what it is all about. As a woman all you really need to do is say "hi" in my opinion. The bar is much lower for women in this regard, again IMO. Also not sure how you define difficult, but not sending you a message first has no bearing on how easy he is to get along with (frankly those men who would be put off by a woman messaging them typically have more rigid views about how a woman is "supposed" to behave...which leads to difficulty) Last but not least, sending a message (or not) has no bearing oh if he will value and cherish you. PUAs send out messages to everyone and they don't value or cherish any of these women as human beings. Sending a message simply means he has interest in you, what kind is completely up for grabs. There are a lot of reasons that a guy may not message you first and what that may mean about him, but the ones you focus on are really not likely. To be fair I believe you just like a guy who takes initiative and you may greatly fear rejection (which is normal a lot of guys fear rejection to). 1 1
SumGuy Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Ami1uwant said: Over my 20+ yrs of dating through some form or other OLD... yes some women initiate. It’s rare. 20 years, that is a long time...how in the world do you know it is rare? That would take knowing those who are interested in you but decide not to reach out. Can say for myself in 6 years of OLD on and off, mostly off meet great women and date them for a long time, I got tons of women reaching out to me. From a simple wink or hi, to a more fulsome message. Half a dozen a day easily. Sure only about 1 in 10 I find interesting, which is lower than my success ratio when initiating, but at least half of them would meet my physical attraction test...so it is just not spam. 1
Ami1uwant Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 3 hours ago, SumGuy said: 20 years, that is a long time...how in the world do you know it is rare? That would take knowing those who are interested in you but decide not to reach out. Can say for myself in 6 years of OLD on and off, mostly off meet great women and date them for a long time, I got tons of women reaching out to me. From a simple wink or hi, to a more fulsome message. Half a dozen a day easily. Sure only about 1 in 10 I find interesting, which is lower than my success ratio when initiating, but at least half of them would meet my physical attraction test...so it is just not spam. Started when online came in existence in mid 99s first we’re chat rooms on AOL , yahoo, and other sites. then individually chatting then talking on phone AOL set up a dating site called ove @ AOL that match bought then youhadvarioys dating sites like match, ehatmony, and others. I have used used many different dating sites where I had to initiate either through a message or take the first step in sites like ehstmony. It was rare under 10% where she initiated communication. From chat rooms women might initiate first. today with 20 something’s it can be different. I also met people online through other means...for e amp,e Micofy had an advice board like this in the late 90s before shutting it down and ehstmony had a chat advice site as well before shutting it down. Idget into PM chats with some that became something more. over this 25 years I had relationships. 2 of them being long including one marriage and divorce. Marriage was 2000-2007, relationship 2010-2014. pre 2010....you generally only the seriously looking did it. Thus there was a higher success rate with starting communication to communicating off line to first date to a few dates to LTR. Now you have more peop,e trying it out but lack the seriousness in it.
salparadise Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: And I still feel that it's tough to play coy if you're on OLD. You're already showing prospective dates that's what you want. So what's a little wink of hello going to hurt? You're on OLD seeking a match instead of waiting for someone to find you. Yup. Exactly. Another thing you said at the beginning: "Because we like to choose," which is also true. So why the expectation that the man has to initiate? It would be so much more efficient if she'd approach whomever she's interested in... instead of sitting in silence with a mailbox full of first messages that she will not respond to, while the guy she really wants to talk to doesn't even realize it. This is the thing that Bumble gets right. But even when women match on Bumble it's often a silly game. Sometimes they let the clock expire, other times they send the message and only say, "Hey," expecting the man to go into pursuit mode while they play coy. My experience is that it doesn't work with those that won't try to hold up their end of the conversation. Of course I don't have much patience for it either, so that may be part of it. But they still expect you to keep coming up with interesting topics and ask lots of questions, while they give minimal responses. I honestly don't know what they expect. Every good thing that has happened for me on OLD has been with a woman who participated and held up her end of things. Thank goodness there are some out there. Lately I've had a rash of contacts who start in with the "friends" BS after a few messages... which usually ends with me saying, "Nah, no thanks." Edited July 12, 2020 by salparadise
thefooloftheyear Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 I dunno....most guys really don't just cold approach women at the same level than I think is reported....Most men know that it's actually creepy as hell to just approach random women without any sort of "invitation"... So really, even in real life, women are doing most of the "initiating"...They may make the guy do the heavy lifting from there, but usually there are some signs she gives, even if subtle.... TFY 1
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