Are women supposed to take initiative nowadays?

[poppyfields]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

I don't think it's you, so much as the photos you choose.  When you are more comfortable showing yourself, you will get more responses.

I was just about to write this myself! 

Colorful, take off the sunglasses and let men see you.

From what I know, men are quite leery of women who hide themselves in pics, use filters, etc.

Men are visual, and with on line, it's the first thing they notice.

Make your pictures count! 

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, Roswell91 said:

Especially since people repeatedly say men are "visual".

To be fair, I never liked sunglasses pics on guys. It looked like they were hiding something. People want to see people's eyes. They want to see the whole face.

Edited July 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[smackie9]

Tip: the first thing men analyze closely is the eyes...so ditch the full body and sunglasses photo, it's not going to get you anywhere. Go get your makeup professionally done (not the smoke look, too muchy).... sexy eyes attract men.

[Colorful]

Holy....I said the sun-glass one as main pic. I didn't say I don't have a close up face pic in my profile. It's my 3rd pic in the gallery. you dont want everyone in town you know see you at first sigh, right? 

I didn't put on any makeup, but my phone camera can automatically brighten my complexion and put on lipstick on my face. I used to fall in love with my eyes ...I have got compliments for my facial features. That's what make me feel so sad. what happens?

Edited July 8, 2020 by Colorful

[Ruby Slippers]

34 minutes ago, Colorful said:

you dont want everyone in town you know see you at first sigh, right? 

If you want to get more interest and messages from men, you're going to have to get over this. I considered the same thing, but ultimately decided that if I'm gonna do it, might as well do it right. 

Most people aren't even going to look at your profile if they don't like your main photo. 

I tried something like your approach for a while, then got over myself and posted a closeup photo clearly showing my face as the main photo. I didn't wear a lot of makeup or do anything over the top, just my normal look in clear natural daylight.

With that photo, I got 10 times as many messages, could barely keep up with them, had planned a first date in less than a week.

[CaliforniaGirl]

OP: People in town are definitely going to know it's you, sunglasses or not. They already know you, they've seen you walking around, not just a still picture. Eyes make a big difference in a person's appearance, including the look in the eyes, but if you saw someone you already know walking around and she had sunglasses on, you would know it was that person, right?

You can do what you want but you're having trouble and people are offering suggestions, based on what you've told us. The first pic is indeed what people see on OLD. They don't see your personality first. If something isn't going right, you need to change things. And the one obvious thing is the first impression.

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, Colorful said:

Holy....I said the sun-glass one as main pic. I didn't say I don't have a close up face pic in my profile. It's my 3rd pic in the gallery. you dont want everyone in town you know see you at first sigh, right? 

I didn't put on any makeup, but my phone camera can automatically brighten my complexion and put on lipstick on my face. I used to fall in love with my eyes ...I have got compliments for my facial features. That's what make me feel so sad. what happens?

 

Do you live in a small town or large city? 

 

Hiw have you dated previously ? Did guys approach you?

[Emilie Jolie]

It sounds as though this is your first experience using OLD, Colorful? 

I don't use it so can't comment on that part, but yes, things have changed quite a bit in the dating world and OLD doesn't work like real life. 

IRL, it's more common for the guy to make the first move, I guess - though ime, 2 people who are attracted to each other kind of just both make moves towards each other, if that makes sense. That's how it's always gone down for me, at least.

OLD, there is no mystery - most people are on there to find dates, so the 'old school' aspect goes out of the window. Making a first move doesn't make you a harlot or whatever, it just makes you someone who is serious about finding a dating prospect.

If you get matches, you are getting interest - put your best photo 1rst, embrace the fact you are OLD (sure some people are nosey, but really most don't care what you do) and go for it.

Good luck!

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Mystery4u]

It's 100% your looks. When I tried OLD I would just swipe for every women to see whether they would match me. The ones that did then I would take a closer look at their profile. If I wasn't attracted - no message.

[salparadise]

7 hours ago, Erik30 said:

I would say it's because of the pictures that guys aren't sending you messages, especially if it looks like you've got something to hide. I like to see a clear shot of someone's face 

I agree. If I see a profile where the face is obscured, cropped, or rear view only––or a snap of their 30+ year old framed print with the 80s hairdo––I know already that they're scared to death to show who they are, and the chance of it going anywhere is zero. So next.

[salparadise]

16 hours ago, central said:

I had far better results if I let the women initiate contact - at least they had some interest.  Most women are inundated with contacts, but seldom the right contacts.  It's better to be proactive and seek what you actually want.

I do this too. There is little point in being one of dozens or even hundreds of messages in a woman's inbox. If you don't compose a great message you have zero chance of a reply, and if you do put a lot of thought and energy into a good message it makes little difference. They just see you as being thirsty. But if I sit back and let the ones who like my profile message me, the odds of a conversation are one-hundred percent, and the odds of converting it to a date (should I decide to ask) are maybe 70 percent or better.

The caveat is that you have to have an engaging profile, aimed at your particular type, along with a handful of decent photos. Then when messaging you have to keep it short and snappy, and don't act overly invested. As much as women claim that they want the man to be "into" them, if they get one whiff of you making too much effort, being too appeasing, they'll lose interest in a flash. Oh, I'm sure there are some who want to be love bombed, peacocked and all of that, but what they say they want is seldom what works. When they come to LS all anxious about why this good-looking guy they're super into isn't messaging them frequently enough... there's a guy with options, game, and and enough don't-give-a-phukk attitude to make'em crazy with lust. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 minutes ago, salparadise said:

I do this too. There is little point in being one of dozens or even hundreds of messages in a woman's inbox. If you don't compose a great message you have zero chance of a reply, and if you do put a lot of thought and energy into a good message it makes little difference. They just see you as being thirsty. But if I sit back and let the ones who like my profile message me, the odds of a conversation are one-hundred percent, and the odds of converting it to a date (should I decide to ask) are maybe 70 percent or better.

The caveat is that you have to have an engaging profile, aimed at your particular type, along with a handful of decent photos. Then when messaging you have to keep it short and snappy, and don't act overly invested. As much as women claim that they want the man to be "into" them, if they get one whiff of you making too much effort, being too appeasing, they'll lose interest in a flash. Oh, I'm sure there are some who want to be love bombed, peacocked and all of that, but what they say they want is seldom what works. When they come to LS all anxious about why this good-looking guy they're super into isn't messaging them frequently enough... there's a guy with options, game, and and enough don't-give-a-phukk attitude to make'em crazy with lust. 

That's because we like to choose.

[regine_phalange]

When I used the apps I got matched with a lot of men who never messaged me. I think there is an element of ego boost which is enough for many people. I am certainly guilty of that! Even though I will say something first if I feel like it, I didn't feel like talking to most of my matches, even though I thought they were attractive. I don't know how to explain it?

On the other hand, I had quite a few matches with cute guys who did message me and we had a nice back and forth. No crude  comments from most. But I'm not sure what they liked. I put less flattering pictures on purpose (no makeup, casual clothes) and let me tell you, I'm not the natural beauty type.  Maybe they liked my profile summary or thought I was approachable? Well in the end I went on one date, for some reason he was the only one who I really wanted to go out with, and that was it for me. Case closed.

 

[rjc149]

6 minutes ago, Roswell91 said:

That's what I've been saying. And im not wrong!

No, you are not wrong. My point, in my replies on this thread, has little to do with the OP's issue, and more to do with what I feel is a double standard on dating advice, and who is permitted to offer it. 

Men are attracted to beauty and fertility. Women are attracted to confidence and strength. Those are both fairly self-evident truths. 

The problem I run into is when I state that women are attracted to confidence and strength, there's a platoon of women coming to complain about that being an unfair blanket assumption about all women, and that I'm just promoting PUA tactics. 

Which is ridiculous. 

[Envy123]

From my experience, in OLD, I have to make the first move most times or I get nothing.

Offline, the girl shows signs of interest (in my eyes, it is taking initiative) and then I make the next move. Otherwise, I stay neutral and don't make a move. Because if I make the first move, I must have done it in a creepy way so I don't make the first move anymore.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Envy123

[poppyfields]

2 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Men are attracted to beauty and fertility. 

rjc, I'm ignorant re the fertility comment.

How would a man know upon meeting a woman how "fertile" she is?  Is there a certain look that gets attached to being fertile?  

Clearly I'm missing something, can you expound?  

[rjc149]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

rjc, I'm ignorant re the fertility comment.

How would a man know upon meeting a woman how "fertile" she is?  Is there a certain look that gets attached to being fertile?  

Clearly I'm missing something, can you expound?  

Fertility = youth, wide hips, large breasts, etc. 

Ie. young and shapely. 

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Fertility = youth, wide hips, large breasts, etc. 

Ie. young and shapely. 

Ah, ok got it, thanks.  

Although I do know men who prefer slimmer hips and smaller breasts, but I get you. 

[Ruby Slippers]

3 hours ago, salparadise said:

There is little point in being one of dozens or even hundreds of messages in a woman's inbox. If you don't compose a great message you have zero chance of a reply, and if you do put a lot of thought and energy into a good message it makes little difference.

Even when you get a lot of messages, most of them are clearly dead ends. It's maybe 10% of men who write anything at all passable in the first message. I'm talking: "Hi. How are you?" If a man writes anything halfway decent, I check out his profile and, unless there are glaring incompatibilities or issues, I reply.

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I agree with this (the underlined)...and what often happens is that the man will say he wants other qualities besides looks; sense of humor or intelligence or whatever is important to him; he wants quality (of course, that makes sense)...but that "the attraction has to be there first, then [he'll] pursue further." And *usually* that means at-a-glance looks. 

What seems to be noted is that *first* she has to be pretty. Then the rest has to fall into place. So...guys aren't necessarily shallow in these ways. Both men and women want more than just someone to stare at (usually!). But it does seem a common thing for men to say the looks thing has to come first, THEN the other traits have to be there.

Women need to be physically attracted too but I think we give a bit more of a pass on looks...in fact Oats said this just recently in a thread...and he's a dude.

 

Im still a guy..last checked 15 minutes ago....

 

many guys above mid 30s are not driven by looks but By profile and what’s listed.

 

in my life I have found attraction comes from interaction with her. It’s rare for me to look at a woman and say she is hot without any communication.

 

 

 

[rjc149]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Ah, ok got it, thanks.  

Although I do know men who prefer slimmer hips and smaller breasts, but I get you. 

Generally speaking. I know women who like shy, passive and even effeminate guys. My sister tends to go for those types. She's a little more dominant and 'alpha' so those men complement her better. 

However, most women, if given the choice between a shy, effeminate guy, and a confident, masculine guy, most would choose the latter. 

The fact that some would choose the former doesn't make "just be shy and effeminate" constructive dating advice in attracting women. 

And, if given the choice between a woman with a boyish body with small hips, wider shoulders and smaller breasts, and a woman with voluptuous curves and hips, most men would choose the latter. 

We're all individuals with unique preferences and life experiences which shape those preferences. But in advising men on how to attract women, it's best to give them advice on having appeal to the majority of women. 

Likewise, it's better to advice the OP on having appeal to the male majority, if she wants a lot of dating options and her pick of men. Which I think is the way to go. 

Looking good in photos, wearing good makeup, being in shape, wearing flattering clothes that accentuate her hips and breasts, having a flattering hair style, will all help her more than not doing these things. 

And you see, there's probably a female poster ready to bring the hammer down for me suggesting the above because it's 'sexist.' Lol. 

 

[poppyfields]

@rjc149I said nothing about "boyish" body or wide shoulders, where did that come from? 

Just saying not all men like wide hips, my bf does not. 

For example, I am 5'6" but have a petite frame, medium sized breasts (large B, small C) and get complimented a lot on my body.  I do yoga and pilates and keep in great shape, a dancer's body.  

Many men prefer this.  And many prefer what you've described.  Both can be very feminine or not, depending on how a woman carries herself. 

Gawd, I can't stand generalizations and wish people would stop making them, and if you're going to debate a point don't interject things such as boyish or wide shoulders that were never even mentioned. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by poppyfields

[CaliforniaGirl]

11 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Personally I prefer it too. Men like to manhandle their women and toss them around the bedroom. But it doesn't mean I dislike wide hips and big breasts. Kinda like how so many women protesting my advice claim "no, some women dislike strong confident behavior, you're just making assumptions about all women" etc. 

In terms of a woman's body type, the range of male preference is as wide and varied as a woman's individual appearance. 

But there are a few constants. Men like women who are slim and in shape. They like symmetrical faces and flattering hairstyles. So, the OP should do what she can to enhance those constants to appeal to the most men. 

I don't know that women say they dislike confidence. They're saying they hate fakeness, only to discover they're with someone who was really just following a bunch of rules but isn't actually confident, or whatever he pretended to be.

Women dislike lies and fakery.

But not actual confidence. 

All I see around here is encouragement for real growth, real changes. This advice isn't often listened to - hence the frustration - but nobody ever tells anybody not to BE confident.

[rjc149]

4 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I don't know that women say they dislike confidence. They're saying they hate fakeness, only to discover they're with someone who was really just following a bunch of rules but isn't actually confident, or whatever he pretended to be.

Women dislike lies and fakery.

But not actual confidence. 

All I see around here is encouragement for real growth, real changes. This advice isn't often listened to - hence the frustration - but nobody ever tells anybody not to BE confident.

You assume that confidence is something that is inherent. Either you have it or don’t. There are confident men and there aren’t. Be true to yourself, right?

For a lot of men who struggle with confidence, it’s not inherent. It’s learned, and practiced, and grown. Men want to become more confident.

You condemn the process of learning, practicing, and growing one’s confidence as fakery. You hijack threads where I give advice to men on how to improve and build their confidence, illustrating what confident behavior looks like to men who are genuinely clueless about it, and make it about misogyny and PUA manipulation. These guys ask for advice, I offer them what I know, it that’s your cue to hijack it. The advice part is tossed aside. Happens pretty reliably.

And there are plenty of instances, from plenty of female posters, attempting to directly challenge my advice by stating “no, you’re wrong, many women happen to like needy, insecure behavior” etc. to that effect.

Now I’m always game for some heated debate, but sometimes, it’s actually about giving good advice, not about putting someone in their place. And too often it seems, it’s about putting me in my place, not advising a male poster on how to behave more attractively around a women he’s interested in.

That has come to aggravate me.
 

 

[Giovane]

4 hours ago, Roswell91 said:

Men are into how a woman appears physically  first and foremost

Same as the other way around, of course.