Ami1uwant Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 Across the USA generally most parents prefer they date and marry the same. Many don’t care how there kids do end up marrying...but some do. there are pressure on black females to marry black men but women otnumber men due to black men being killed or in prison. its common in immigrant families where there is pressure to preserve the nationality and traditions. This usually take 1-2 generations to end. my dad was the first to marry a non italian.
Fresh_Start Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 5:57 PM, Ruby Slippers said: I think what holds a lot of women back from dating black men or other ethnicities is not their own interest or attraction, but how they're judged negatively for it by people including the public in general. I live in the South. A few years ago when I was still self-employed as a consultant, I (white woman) met an older black man for a business lunch in his fairly small town. It totally blew my mind and kinda broke my heart how so many people were giving us dirty looks for having lunch together. I can only imagine how they'd have reacted if we'd been behaving in a romantic, affectionate way. Afterward we were chatting outside in the parking lot, and this redneck guy in a big truck drove by and stared menacingly at us. It was pretty scary. I got the feeling he might take some violent action. Not a romantic feeling. A woman would have to have a pretty strong constitution and really like the guy to endure this kind of thing. People in the Northeastern U.S. are a lot more tolerant and open-minded. Interracial marriages are pretty commonplace here. One of my close female friends is married to a black man and has multiple children with him. Nobody gives them a hard time or dirty looks when they're out in public. I've met some gorgeous black women in my life, including one I dated for a bit who was a model from England. I never felt self-conscious about it and can't recall a single time anybody gave us dirty looks. I typically don't even refer to these women as "black" women, but did so for the sake of the contextual reply. To me they're just women. 2 1
basil67 Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Colorful said: NO. It's preference, according to one poster. preference or preferential treatment based on color of one's skin, is called racism, isn't it? I quoted what that one poster said about his family. It's family who are racist for prejudging someone on their colour and who would have a fit if he dated a black woman. For Fred, it's preference depending on who he's attracted to and how well different cultures may mesh. Edited July 9, 2020 by basil67
basil67 Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, fred123 said: is it fair to say im incompatible dating black people as im of indian culture? thats a preference right? is it fair to say im incompatible being friends with black people as im more compatible with indian people (my lot)? Depends on who is saying it. If you're saying it about yourself and you believe it to be true, then it's fair. If someone else pushes their views on you, then it's not fair. Mostly because who you choose to date is not about your friends or family or strangers and their beliefs.
mortensorchid Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 Racism is everywhere in ways you do and do not expect to see it. People react in ways you weren't expecting. So your old gf hid you because you are/were black and she's Jewish? Well, not that this makes you feel better but Jews are a race as well as a religion. Know how many people I have known who dated others outside of their race and even married them? How many of them are still together? Barely 10%. Why? Cultural differences, and how others treat them individually and as a couple. Am I racist for saying that? I suppose so, as all the snowflakes/SJWs may say, but how many times has this been proven to me and others? I'm sorry you feel rejected/hurt because of what she did/said in your relationship. Just realize that it's all a learning experience. 1
Lorenza Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) I never swipe right on black guys on Tinder - not attracted to them. Is that racist? First time I saw a black person alive was when I was 16, so maybe that affected my attractions? Although I have seen some really cute black guys and could see myself dating them, but that's rare. I usually find viking type blond guys attractive. Someone I knew claimed that's super racist, but I somehow don't feel like it is, because I don't think black guys are not good enough for me or anything, if I happened to fall in love with one so be it. What do you guys think? Edited July 9, 2020 by Lorenza 1
Emilie Jolie Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 7 hours ago, fred123 said: is it fair to say im incompatible dating black people as im of indian culture? thats a preference right? is it fair to say im incompatible being friends with black people as im more compatible with indian people (my lot)? You can have a preference for dating certain people because you're familiar with the culture, religion, expectations or you are particularly attracted to them for some reason. However, I really don't know how saying ' I can't be your friend because you're Black' is a preference, as a number of posters seem to agree with that statement. I genuinely can't wrap my head around anyone saying they can't be friends with Black people because of the colour of their skin with it not sounding massively wrong. Where is the incompatibility? Attraction is one thing, friendship is another.
Giovane Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 The term "racism" is applicable to behavior that people can - and should make an effort to - control. Being physically and emotionally attracted to somebody is deeply personal and can not be controlled. It's not caused by making a conscious decision, you cannot stop or start it at will. Hence, I don't think "racism" applies to personal dating preferences. If somebody is just not attracted to you, you can't blame "racism", and if you do, you will make yourself look silly. OTOH: No person on the planet should ever be in a position to tell another person who they should or should not be attracted to or who they should or should not want to spend their life and start a family with. Of course you can't turn a blind eye to the fact that this does happen. People are pressured into/out of relationships by other people around them, and part of these other people's motives may have to do with racist stereotypes. It's not like that never happened. 1 2
elaine567 Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 The incompatibility is not hinged on the colour of skin it is hinged on nationality (if applicable), culture, religion, outlook on life, life experiences, upbringing, values, family etc. All these things do actually matter as they affect the individuals involved. Living in constant conflict with loved ones over choice of dates or friends is not good... Fine to fly in the face of tradition and culture and the opinions of loved ones, but if you then end up miserable as you are in effect ostracised from your family or community, then that is not a fun place to be... Some people and communities will NOT accept the "other" and I guess Fred's ex was just not willing to show off Fred as her bf. Was that due to his colour? Maybe, but it may be due to the fact he was not a Jew or just that she never considered him as serious bf material for reasons possibly that had nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of his skin or his non Jewish status. 1
Foxhall Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 16 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: but it's not anti-Irish good that its not anti-irish 1
Emilie Jolie Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 Well, I guess I live in a parallel universe where not wanting black friends on account of their skin colour, is racist af. I borderline don't even get the preference thing either in dating, and believe it to be hugely motivated by social conditioning, but I agree it's not racist. That you don't have black friends is a different thing, mainly because western societies are fairly segregated. But you don't want black friends? Yep. Racist.
Author fred123 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said: Well, I guess I live in a parallel universe where not wanting black friends on account of their skin colour, is racist af. I borderline don't even get the preference thing either in dating, and believe it to be hugely motivated by social conditioning, but I agree it's not racist. That you don't have black friends is a different thing, mainly because western societies are fairly segregated. But you don't want black friends? Yep. Racist. some people will sleep with black people but never date them. its their preference for not wanting to be seen with them over dinner right?
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lorenza said: I never swipe right on black guys on Tinder - not attracted to them. Is that racist? First time I saw a black person alive was when I was 16, so maybe that affected my attractions? Although I have seen some really cute black guys and could see myself dating them, but that's rare. I usually find viking type blond guys attractive. Someone I knew claimed that's super racist, but I somehow don't feel like it is, because I don't think black guys are not good enough for me or anything, if I happened to fall in love with one so be it. What do you guys think? Maybe... I live in a very "white" neighborhood (not by my choosing...it's a lovely neighborhood but we had no idea of this demographic when we moved in). There was literally one black child in my sons' elementary school. One. Coming from the northeast this was really bizarre to me and it stuck out for myself and my husband right away. We talked about it once in a while...would our children understand diversity...etc. But it seemed just as racist to "show" them people from other cultures (except Spanish descent and Asian, of which we have many families in my town)...and say, "here's (for example) a black person...you know they're JUST like you, right?" That just seemed so odd and off somehow...kind of condescending. So we actually didn't think about it all that much...just every once in a while on the school campus or out and about somewhere it would strike me. My older son has special needs. He's autistic and intellectually delayed. He has a gigantic heart. He's a lovely person. Everybody at school loves him...not just the kids in his class...the whole school. Each school he's been at since he was able to talk (when he was pre-verbal he had a lot more difficulty and could only communicate in sounds) he became a good friend to everyone, teachers included. My son is a giant strapping white-blonde, blue/grey-eyed young man, currently almost 18. He is literally gorgeous and I say that with no bias at all. He doesn't look like me, LOL. Like...at all. Just facially. He is a blonde giant with perfect features...I don't know how TF that happened but it did. So anyway...when he started 9th grade he started coming home and talking about Cara. Cara Cara Cara. It was cute and kind of amazing because - while I realize this was narrow of us or however you'd put that - we had literally still thought of him as just a little boy. He acted like one (and still does). He was getting physically bigger but we were surprised by his interest in a girl out of the blue. He started talking about how much he "loved and cared about" Cara. This went on for a year. He told us she wanted to write him a love letter but her mother wouldn't let her, LOL. He also told me that another boy in class "loved" Cara but eventually he told her Cara said she "would choose one of them" (OMG!!) and then one day she "chose" my son and he was over the moon! Finally at Open House night we met Cara and Cara's parents. Cara is black. She's beautiful and she's JUST like my son. Seriously, they are peas in a pod. If I had a daughter instead of a son I'm pretty sure she would have been Cara. They were cut out for one another. All my son can ever talk about is how beautiful Cara is or how pretty Cara is or how he "loves and cares for" Cara. They've been together for four years now...four! I can't believe it. They're about to graduate their class (there's then an adult continuing special ed schedule for them). My son who had literally seen one black person in his life before Cara, talked about Cara for a year and never mentioned she was black. Literally not once. He did not see it and he doesn't see it, he sees a beautiful girl who doesn't look like him, he loves her hair, he loves her face, he loves that she is "a nice person and a kind person"...and that's it. He has asked her to marry him, LOL. Oh boy...that's a different story. Edited July 9, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl Clarifications. 3
Emilie Jolie Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 Just now, fred123 said: some people will sleep with black people but never date them. its their preference for not wanting to be seen with them over dinner right? I have no idea whether the 'not wanting to see you over dinner' part is directly linked to the other person's skin colour but assuming that it is - it's rogue, preference or not. Even if it's nothing to do with skin colour, it's not cool. Don't do this, and don't let anyone do this to you unless this is mutually agreed.
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, fred123 said: some people will sleep with black people but never date them. its their preference for not wanting to be seen with them over dinner right? You've been given so many reasons for this. They include possibilities such as: 1. Sure, she might be racist. If so WHY are you still hung up on her? Why did you ever sleep with her, actually, since you say you knew this all along? You knew she would't be seen with you. So what's the deal? 2. She might not have wanted to get too attached to you, meeting friends, family, etc. because she already knew she wouldn't wind up with you permanently. She knew she wanted to marry a Jewish man. So she may have kept you separate from her full life to keep herself from falling. 3. She might not be racist but her family might be. She could be afraid of rocking the boat, and she doesn't know how to handle that aspect...because it IS incredibly difficult...I mean some peole might for example threaten to cut off their children for seeing someone outside their race or their culture. A Christian family might "forbid" a Muslim boyfriend around...or whatever. It happes. 4. She might have just seen you as a FB...and I can't imagine how that in particular could lead you to think she's willing to "sleep with black people but not date them" since you outright talked about her "white FBs" in another thread. An FB is an FB. You don't take him to mee the parents. And I want to add: you keep talking about black people this, black people that. But you're Indian descent. Do you REALLY know how black people feel about various things? Black people have had a uniquely hard time of things - it's been a stand-apart issue from the get-go. I realize you're in England and that's why I'm asking, not telling...because this is in the U.S. where there was slavery, then Jim Crow laws...but I think I've heard that in England there had also been a real stacking of the cards against black individuals. Anyway, why do you keep bringing up "blacks"? Is it because systemic racism is coming to light again, something that's a trigger for everyone, and bound to get people to stand up and be outraged on your behalf about this girl (who may not be racist at all)? This may have no bearing on anything but I'll say it, it's making me really uncomfortable. It seems inappropriate. How do you know what it's like to live as a black man? You're Indian...are you sure it's "color", if anything? Is it cultural instead? Both can have bigotry, obviously. And racism. But have you considered that culture can also have something to do with "not meeting the parents" or whatever? As a possible parallel, I know Muslim culture here is a trigger - unfairly - for a lot of people....and people might get flack for dating in that way from BOTH sides, actually...this is just one more thing to consider. Your culture is different. She is Jewish...which can mean a hundred countries of origin, Israel is obviously not the only one, there are German (descent) Jews, Croatian...Peruvian. Her culture is likely drastically different from yours...no matter what her skin color is. And that might have bothered her because she knew she wanted to marry a Jewish man...and she may not have wanted to cement the "boyfriend/girlfriend" stuff because she knew she didn't want to get attached...she knew she didn't want to marry you. I get that racism is racism (and never okay...full stop), but you seem to be slanting things in this thread by saying black black black black black over again as a (rightful) trigger...but you're not black. I just wonder whether you're using that to produce more outrage and make us see your side to it. I am starting to get super-uncomfortable with your appropriation of a culture you've never had to live in and deal with. We do see your side...we DON'T see hers. We CAN'T say that yes...it's racism here. She had white FBs and I'm sure she never showed them to the folks either...just things to consider. Edited July 9, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
Bantosm Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 How about people of one race who only date members of a another but specific race. Is that a form of racism?
basil67 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Bantosm said: How about people of one race who only date members of a another but specific race. Is that a form of racism? Is it because they have 'views' about the other races which prevent them dating or is it about attraction?
Acacia98 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 13 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: You've been given so many reasons for this. They include possibilities such as: 1. Sure, she might be racist. If so WHY are you still hung up on her? Why did you ever sleep with her, actually, since you say you knew this all along? You knew she would't be seen with you. So what's the deal? 2. She might not have wanted to get too attached to you, meeting friends, family, etc. because she already knew she wouldn't wind up with you permanently. She knew she wanted to marry a Jewish man. So she may have kept you separate from her full life to keep herself from falling. 3. She might not be racist but her family might be. She could be afraid of rocking the boat, and she doesn't know how to handle that aspect...because it IS incredibly difficult...I mean some peole might for example threaten to cut off their children for seeing someone outside their race or their culture. A Christian family might "forbid" a Muslim boyfriend around...or whatever. It happes. 4. She might have just seen you as a FB...and I can't imagine how that in particular could lead you to think she's willing to "sleep with black people but not date them" since you outright talked about her "white FBs" in another thread. An FB is an FB. You don't take him to mee the parents. And I want to add: you keep talking about black people this, black people that. But you're Indian descent. Do you REALLY know how black people feel about various things? Black people have had a uniquely hard time of things - it's been a stand-apart issue from the get-go. I realize you're in England and that's why I'm asking, not telling...because this is in the U.S. where there was slavery, then Jim Crow laws...but I think I've heard that in England there had also been a real stacking of the cards against black individuals. Anyway, why do you keep bringing up "blacks"? Is it because systemic racism is coming to light again, something that's a trigger for everyone, and bound to get people to stand up and be outraged on your behalf about this girl (who may not be racist at all)? This may have no bearing on anything but I'll say it, it's making me really uncomfortable. It seems inappropriate. How do you know what it's like to live as a black man? You're Indian...are you sure it's "color", if anything? Is it cultural instead? Both can have bigotry, obviously. And racism. But have you considered that culture can also have something to do with "not meeting the parents" or whatever? As a possible parallel, I know Muslim culture here is a trigger - unfairly - for a lot of people....and people might get flack for dating in that way from BOTH sides, actually...this is just one more thing to consider. Your culture is different. She is Jewish...which can mean a hundred countries of origin, Israel is obviously not the only one, there are German (descent) Jews, Croatian...Peruvian. Her culture is likely drastically different from yours...no matter what her skin color is. And that might have bothered her because she knew she wanted to marry a Jewish man...and she may not have wanted to cement the "boyfriend/girlfriend" stuff because she knew she didn't want to get attached...she knew she didn't want to marry you. I get that racism is racism (and never okay...full stop), but you seem to be slanting things in this thread by saying black black black black black over again as a (rightful) trigger...but you're not black. I just wonder whether you're using that to produce more outrage and make us see your side to it. I am starting to get super-uncomfortable with your appropriation of a culture you've never had to live in and deal with. We do see your side...we DON'T see hers. We CAN'T say that yes...it's racism here. She had white FBs and I'm sure she never showed them to the folks either...just things to consider. To my knowledge, parallels have been drawn between the experiences of people of South Asian descent in the UK and blacks in the US. I have also heard the term "black" being used in the UK to describe people of African descent as well as people of South Asian descent. I don't know how widespread that usage is, but it exists. So maybe he's doing that. It's possible something is getting lost in translation because most people here are American (I think) and the tendency is to assume that American experiences and use of language are the standard. 1
Ami1uwant Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Acacia98 said: To my knowledge, parallels have been drawn between the experiences of people of South Asian descent in the UK and blacks in the US. I have also heard the term "black" being used in the UK to describe people of African descent as well as people of South Asian descent. I don't know how widespread that usage is, but it exists. So maybe he's doing that. It's possible something is getting lost in translation because most people here are American (I think) and the tendency is to assume that American experiences and use of language are the standard. To vcarify...there are different shades of Indian in skin tone as well as African immigrants have come to India over the years. India is racist/ anti immigrant towards thrm.
Acacia98 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said: To vcarify...there are different shades of Indian in skin tone as well as African immigrants have come to India over the years. India is racist/ anti immigrant towards thrm That's true. And it makes things complicated. But I wasn't focusing on life in India just then. I was focusing on historical xenophobia and race dynamics in the UK.
CaliforniaGirl Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Acacia98 said: That's true. And it makes things complicated. But I wasn't focusing on life in India just then. I was focusing on historical xenophobia and race dynamics in the UK. OTOH Jewish people are an often very marginalized group and have had their share of suffering, that is for sure. And bigotry to a literally unbelievable level, especially in Europe. Some Jews became pretty insular because of that or started out insular due to directives in the Bible as well as societal pressures, but I digress, I can't talk too much on this because it's not my place, this is just my understanding from knowing many Jewish people. Anyway... Maybe the OP can clarify, though. Or someone else who lives in England. The rest of us are just guessing. It would also be interesting to hear the OP's views on whether Indian people in general in the UK are open to marrying Jewish women and whether any Indian people want to marry other Indian people, and whether that means they're racist. I am really wondering about all of this. But even if this woman IS racist... 1. Why is racism a shock by the OP? It's real, we all know it's real, some of us fight continuously against it. So can it happen in dating? Sure it can...I think what people are saying here is, the OP is asking not really what he states in his subject line, but whether THIS girl in particular is "racist" because she didn't want to have him meet her friends and family. And how on earth can we do that? There are so many other possibilities. 2. I do not think people are trying to prove nobody excludes other people due to racism (or culture or religion issues). They're trying to show that based on what the OP says we don't really have supporting evidence that this particular girl is racist. The OP pointed out previously that this girl had white FBs. If an Indian man and several white men were all just for sex then I can't see how the woman is showing she's racist by relegating the OP to the same status as those white guys. An FB, more or less, but not someone to have a future with. 3. I have asked the OP this question three times and have not gotten an answer. If you believe this about the girl then why would you have been sleeping with her? Obviously you knew at the time that you were having sex with her but not meeting her parents. You are angry...she broke up with you years ago, and now she's getting married. And she refused your request to Friend her. Why the obsession? This was all four years ago and now she's marrying someone with her faith. Which you knew was her goal. Do you have an answer to why this particular girl and her motivations are still so important to you, years after your breakup? Do you need to demonize her in order to get over her? I'm not being mean, I'm being logical. If it's hurting you this badly, this many years later, you need to face that, or it will never, ever end. You'll just always be obsessing on her. Edited July 10, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
Fresh_Start Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: OTOH Every time I see you use that acronym, I read it as "Otoh" like some kind of Eskimo name. This is the part where I'd ordinarily tell an Eskimo joke, but I'm just not that Inuit today. 1
Bantosm Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 13 hours ago, basil67 said: Is it because they have 'views' about the other races which prevent them dating or is it about attraction? I don't see how it could be views about other races unless they have an issue against their own race. I've known several people since high school and I have never known any of them to date a person who was the same race as they are, only people of a particular race.
basil67 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Bantosm said: I don't see how it could be views about other races unless they have an issue against their own race. I've known several people since high school and I have never known any of them to date a person who was the same race as they are, only people of a particular race. Sorry, I misread it. Do the they avoid their own race because they hold prejudicial views or is it just about attraction?
MissBee Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 Racism is seen in every facet of life. The best analogy is "people think racism is the shark, but it's the water."
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