I don't think he's ok

July 6, 2020

I've posted about my inattentive-ADD diagnosed friend in previous threads. He and I have a dating history, however we are good friends now. He disclosed his diagnosis after going to see a therapist. What had initially prompted me to check in with him was his sudden removal of social media (he's only been on Instagram). Although I commend not using social media, the last few times he's abruptly taken himself off the digital world is when he's been not doing so great psychologically. He's taken himself off the socials again, and so due to past experiences I now associate it with his psychological state flaring up. We've spoken recently, he messaged me on Friday and we had an affable chat. Although he kept the conversation going, I could tell he wasn't entirely happy. A day later, he's off socials.

I have a clinical psych background (I don't currently practice) but I know plenty of incredible people in the field who could help him. People who have published 20+ books in Psychiatry. Harvard lecturers. Perhaps his flareups are symptomatic of his current treatment not particularly suiting him. I don't want to undermine his therapist, however it isn't uncommon for people to try different psychs before completing meshing with one.

I'm frustrating myself because I genuinely care about him as much as I've ever cared for anyone, and would go to the end of the world to be by his side as he navigates though this. I can link him to some of the best doctors in the country. I just have inhibitions about reaching out. I know I must, because I won't be able to deal with knowing I didn't - but despite informing me of the diagnosis he's a private person and doesn't like showing vulnerability. How do I get over the fear of feeling like I'm annoying him if I send a text? At this point I want to insist on him telling me everything because it's important that he dumps it onto someone - I'm willing to carry that load for him.

I will message if his social media absence is lengthy, but I have stupid fears of being annoying or him viewing it as me forcing a talk about his feelings. I know once he breaks a barrier, he'll feel amazing if he just unloaded it all onto me and I genuinely pray it happens soon. I just don't know how to get over these stupid fears, which is highly ironic for someone with a psych background

July 6, 2020

what exactly is the issue? you or him?

July 6, 2020

6 minutes ago, alphamale said:

what exactly is the issue? you or him?

I think I've been succinct enough.

July 6, 2020

You're human too, you know? Maybe you'd benefit from leaning on someone too, getting some counselling?

July 6, 2020

Is it possible to see him in person? I don't think this is a topic that should be discussed over text.

As far as feeling you're annoying him, you have to decide which feeling is stronger - the fear of annoying him or the feeling that he truly needs help that maybe you can facilitate. Sometimes we have to have uncomfortable conversations in relationships.

This is obviously a very personal and sensitive topic, but after giving it plenty of thought if you feel this is a conversation you need to have with him then reach out and try to see him face to face for the discussion.

July 6, 2020

38 minutes ago, girlinNYC said:

I've posted about my inattentive-ADD diagnosed friend in previous threads. He and I have a dating history, however we are good friends now. He disclosed his diagnosis after going to see a therapist. What had initially prompted me to check in with him was his sudden removal of social media (he's only been on Instagram). Although I commend not using social media, the last few times he's abruptly taken himself off the digital world is when he's been not doing so great psychologically. He's taken himself off the socials again, and so due to past experiences I now associate it with his psychological state flaring up. We've spoken recently, he messaged me on Friday and we had an affable chat. Although he kept the conversation going, I could tell he wasn't entirely happy. A day later, he's off socials.

I have a clinical psych background (I don't currently practice) but I know plenty of incredible people in the field who could help him. People who have published 20+ books in Psychiatry. Harvard lecturers. Perhaps his flareups are symptomatic of his current treatment not particularly suiting him. I don't want to undermine his therapist, however it isn't uncommon for people to try different psychs before completing meshing with one.

I'm frustrating myself because I genuinely care about him as much as I've ever cared for anyone, and would go to the end of the world to be by his side as he navigates though this. I can link him to some of the best doctors in the country. I just have inhibitions about reaching out. I know I must, because I won't be able to deal with knowing I didn't - but despite informing me of the diagnosis he's a private person and doesn't like showing vulnerability. How do I get over the fear of feeling like I'm annoying him if I send a text? At this point I want to insist on him telling me everything because it's important that he dumps it onto someone - I'm willing to carry that load for him.

I will message if his social media absence is lengthy, but I have stupid fears of being annoying or him viewing it as me forcing a talk about his feelings. I know once he breaks a barrier, he'll feel amazing if he just unloaded it all onto me and I genuinely pray it happens soon. I just don't know how to get over these stupid fears, which is highly ironic for someone with a psych background

People can only get help if they want it. There are also people who don’t respond to any type of medical treatment. Maybe this is his situation. He probably understands his disability well enough to know what works or doesn’t.

I’m sure he has his reasons for his withdrawal. It may not mesh with what you were taught but this is how many people cope. Helps to clear the mind. Some people with depression even cut off social media access, especially if they’re seeing negative posts all the time. It only worsens their condition. All you can do is give him space and let him sort it himself.

July 6, 2020

A social media break could be his way of coping when things are tough. It isn't always a helpful influence and sometimes a break can do people good.

I would send him a friendly message asking how he is, so he knows he can contact you if he wants to. However, I wouldn't bring up his difficulties unless he does. I certainly wouldn't start recommending clinicians to him unless he asks. I'm a doctor and I think it's very important that we don't mix our personal and professional lives, firstly for our own wellbeing, and secondly because it's an easy way to start overstepping boundaries and really annoying our friends. You're his friend. Be supportive but stay away from his treatment.

July 6, 2020

1 hour ago, girlinNYC said:

How do I get over the fear of feeling like I'm annoying him if I send a text? At this point I want to insist on him telling me everything because it's important that he dumps it onto someone - I'm willing to carry that load for him.

The incongruity of those two sentences astounds me. You think it would be invasive to send the man a text but you think it's OK to demand that he spill his guts to you?

Instead send him a text inviting him to take a socially distant walk with you or some other Covid appropriate activity. If he wants to talk, listen. Do not pry. Be upbeat. Give him a reason to be out of the house getting sun on his face & moving around. Pushing for details he doesn't want to share would be wrong. Sending 1-2 texts would be fine.

July 6, 2020

8 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

You're human too, you know? Maybe you'd benefit from leaning on someone too, getting some counselling?

I think it would be beneficial. His situation impacts me (it shouldn’t but it is what it is), I think counselling would help to clarify my thoughts.

July 6, 2020

6 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

The incongruity of those two sentences astounds me. You think it would be invasive to send the man a text but you think it's OK to demand that he spill his guts to you?

Instead send him a text inviting him to take a socially distant walk with you or some other Covid appropriate activity. If he wants to talk, listen. Do not pry. Be upbeat. Give him a reason to be out of the house getting sun on his face & moving around. Pushing for details he doesn't want to share would be wrong. Sending 1-2 texts would be fine.

Didn’t mean to sound contradictory. Meaning is that I want to be someone he can spill everything to (as it would be super healthy for him to do so), but I don’t want to come off as annoying by sending a text since his default is to internalise and shut the world out. I’m actually quite amazed he even told me about his diagnosis.
With my psych background I know how to chat without prying or being forceful, it’s just breaking that internal barrier I have out of feeling as though I’m being a nag if I send a check in text.

July 6, 2020

This is the guy you've said you're absolutely and utterly in love with, the one that you'll spend the rest of your life missing and longing for---the guy who has repeatedly told you his feelings for you are just platonic, correct?

This isn't your place at all. There is no way any of your advice, however well-intended, will have a positive outcome for either of you.

July 6, 2020

Then reach out, through text or voice. Set something up where you can spend time with him & talk. Make sure he knows you are a safe non-judgmental outlet but let him set the pace.

If you reach out more then 2-3 times without a response, take the hint that he doesn't want you involved.

July 6, 2020

16 minutes ago, girlinNYC said:

Didn’t mean to sound contradictory. Meaning is that I want to be someone he can spill everything to (as it would be super healthy for him to do so), but I don’t want to come off as annoying by sending a text since his default is to internalise and shut the world out. I’m actually quite amazed he even told me about his diagnosis.
With my psych background I know how to chat without prying or being forceful, it’s just breaking that internal barrier I have out of feeling as though I’m being a nag if I send a check in text.

You aren't his psychologist and it would be a breach of professional boundaries to try and act as if you were.

It isn't automatically healthy to spill everything to a friend. Not everyone wants their friends deeply involved in their mental health care, no matter how close they might be. It may be that he talks to his therapist about his difficulties and wants to focus on lighter topics with you. That's his choice and there is no need to pathologise or over-interpret it.

I'm getting the feeling that your desire to be his confidante is more about you than about him. You want to be the special individual who understands him, to whom he tells everything, and who even chooses his psychiatrist for him, the psychiatrist who is going to be pivotal to his recovery. Ask yourself honestly: is this really all about his health, or is it about your desire to be closer to him than he's letting you?

Edited July 6, 2020 by balletomane

July 6, 2020

Same guy you said you would rather be alone if you can't love him the way you want? And has told you he does not want to be with you in the way?

Seriously I think you are the one who needs professional help to let him go from your life for good.

It's not your job in life to make him better. He needs to want to make himself better.

He is holding you back in so many ways and you can't even see it.

July 6, 2020

30 minutes ago, girlinNYC said:

Didn’t mean to sound contradictory. Meaning is that I want to be someone he can spill everything to (as it would be super healthy for him to do so), but I don’t want to come off as annoying by sending a text since his default is to internalise and shut the world out. I’m actually quite amazed he even told me about his diagnosis.
With my psych background I know how to chat without prying or being forceful, it’s just breaking that internal barrier I have out of feeling as though I’m being a nag if I send a check in text.

Okay...you can't make someone accept you as their confidante, and he may also be picking up on how you wish there were more between you.

It's his choice who he speaks to. It's intrusive to keep after someone who seems to want to be alone. He may also dislike the implied power imbalance...he's messed up but you're here to save him.

As someone with a clinical background I'm sure you I ow Rule Number One. You can not make someone else get help. If he wants it he needs to go get it. He already knows you're around and he knows your background so if he wanted you to be his confidante, he'd be calling you.

July 7, 2020

8 hours ago, FMW said:

Is it possible to see him in person? I don't think this is a topic that should be discussed over text.

As far as feeling you're annoying him, you have to decide which feeling is stronger - the fear of annoying him or the feeling that he truly needs help that maybe you can facilitate. Sometimes we have to have uncomfortable conversations in relationships.

This is obviously a very personal and sensitive topic, but after giving it plenty of thought if you feel this is a conversation you need to have with him then reach out and try to see him face to face for the discussion.

It is possible, we live in the same city. An in person ‘how are you’ as opposed to a lengthy text conversation would be most beneficial, though I would obviously facilitate what he’s comfortable with.
The thing is is it’s not the conversations I’m uncomfortable having, I think they’re important for him to have. I’m just uncomfortable with potentially being seen as a nag. As you said I need to weigh up which feeling is stronger - and it’s definitely the want to help him. It’s just getting over that fear of being annoying boundary.

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, lana-banana said:

This is the guy you've said you're absolutely and utterly in love with, the one that you'll spend the rest of your life missing and longing for---the guy who has repeatedly told you his feelings for you are just platonic, correct?

This isn't your place at all. There is no way any of your advice, however well-intended, will have a positive outcome for either of you.

I literally told him how I felt once. We haven’t spoken about feelings since. ‘Repeatedly’ is a bit of a stretch...

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, balletomane said:

You aren't his psychologist and it would be a breach of professional boundaries to try and act as if you were.

It isn't automatically healthy to spill everything to a friend. Not everyone wants their friends deeply involved in their mental health care, no matter how close they might be. It may be that he talks to his therapist about his difficulties and wants to focus on lighter topics with you. That's his choice and there is no need to pathologise or over-interpret it.

I'm getting the feeling that your desire to be his confidante is more about you than about him. You want to be the special individual who understands him, to whom he tells everything, and who even chooses his psychiatrist for him, the psychiatrist who is going to be pivotal to his recovery. Ask yourself honestly: is this really all about his health, or is it about your desire to be closer to him than he's letting you?

Not once did I say I want to take the place of his psychiatrist. I quite literally said in my original piece that I’m not here to undermine any therapists. The entire premise of my point is the fear of overstepping, yet wanting to be there as a help. I wouldn’t use someone’s mental health for my own gain.

July 7, 2020

He knows you have feelings for him and knows you're desperate to be close to him. You talk about wanting to help him but this comes off as very transparently manipulative, and I'm sure he can see it too. Please be respectful and just leave it alone unless he chooses to involve you.

July 7, 2020

14 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

He knows you have feelings for him and knows you're desperate to be close to him. You talk about wanting to help him but this comes off as very transparently manipulative, and I'm sure he can see it too. Please be respectful and just leave it alone unless he chooses to involve you.

We have not discussed feelings since the one times. For all he knows, I could be completely over him. We mutually agreed to be friends, so in his mind, we are friends. Not sure how anything manipulative else can be deduced from that, lel.

July 7, 2020

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Okay...you can't make someone accept you as their confidante, and he may also be picking up on how you wish there were more between you.

It's his choice who he speaks to. It's intrusive to keep after someone who seems to want to be alone. He may also dislike the implied power imbalance...he's messed up but you're here to save him.

As someone with a clinical background I'm sure you I ow Rule Number One. You can not make someone else get help. If he wants it he needs to go get it. He already knows you're around and he knows your background so if he wanted you to be his confidante, he'd be calling you.

Yeah, I’m aware of clinical rules, thanks.

Unsure where the overly common misconception of him suddenly thinking this all means I want something more from him is coming from. We spoke about feelings once and that’s it. Since then, the topic has never come up. Nor have I ever brought it up.
Sure, he would be calling if he wanted to unload. But on that point it’s rather confusing as to why he would open up a can of worms by telling me about the diagnosis in the first place and then never mention it again, all the while making sudden disappearances.
To say I’m going after him is an exaggeration - the entire point of my post was that I’m fearful of overstepping.
I genuinely don’t understand how so many are misconstruing this, making me out as though my head is in the clouds. I have the psych background, I have a complete handle on my thought processes.

July 7, 2020

Are you a licensed, accredited practitioner psychologist, or do you mean you have a psychology BSc or a graduate degree that doesn't qualify you to practise clinically?

I ask partly because you keep saying "I have a psych background" rather than "I am a psychologist", which seems like vague phrasing, and partly because you are making claims that sound very strange coming from a clinician. Firstly, I can't imagine any of my colleagues in psychiatry saying, "I have a complete handle on my thought processes." I'm a neurologist, so I liaise with psychiatry and clinical neuropsych a lot. They don't act as if their specialties grant them perfect self-insight and I guarantee they'd raise eyebrows at such a claim. Secondly, you're making an extremely big deal out of his ADD diagnosis. Him mentioning it to you once and not bringing it up again isn't "opening up a can of worms". More likely and logical explanations are that a.) he doesn't see it as a subject for regular discussion (it is a relatively common dx and many adults lead perfectly well-adjusted lives with it) or b.) he simply doesn't want to go into specifics with you. Someone sharing one relatively innocuous thing about themselves doesn't mean they should be prepared to share details, and I'd be surprised if a psychologist couldn't see that. By interpreting his behaviour the way you are, it does come across as if you're trying to crowbar your way into an emotional intimacy with him.

You did say you don't want to undermine his therapist...but in the same post you said you know of published Harvard psychiatrists he could work with and you interpret his "flare ups" as possible signs of his current treatment "not suiting him". Firstly, people's psychological states do vary, especially when they're in stressful circumstances like a pandemic. That's completely normal. Secondly, the only signs of distress that you've described are him taking a social media break and not spilling his guts to you, both of which are perfectly rational choices. You're trying to read things into his behaviour that are not necessarily there, and yes, this does come across as obsessing about him (especially in light of your other posts).

Edited July 7, 2020 by balletomane

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, girlinNYC said:

Yeah, I’m aware of clinical rules, thanks.

Unsure where the overly common misconception of him suddenly thinking this all means I want something more from him is coming from. We spoke about feelings once and that’s it. Since then, the topic has never come up. Nor have I ever brought it up.
Sure, he would be calling if he wanted to unload. But on that point it’s rather confusing as to why he would open up a can of worms by telling me about the diagnosis in the first place and then never mention it again, all the while making sudden disappearances.
To say I’m going after him is an exaggeration - the entire point of my post was that I’m fearful of overstepping.
I genuinely don’t understand how so many are misconstruing this, making me out as though my head is in the clouds. I have the psych background, I have a complete handle on my thought processes.

Not suddenly. When you want someone like this it comes through. Trust me, he knows. And he's distancing himself.

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, girlinNYC said:

I have the psych background, I have a complete handle on my thought processes.

Anyone I've known in the mental health field says it's a myth that they have it together more than the next person. "Knowing" and being able are two different things. It's like overeating. A person with Binge Eating Disorder probably knows more about nutrition, food science, triggers (both physical and emotional) and even the human brain (as regards her own issue) than most people, and probably even a good few PCPs, know. But in practice...well, she needs help.

What is your clinical background? If you don't mind me asking.

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, girlinNYC said:

I have a complete handle on my thought processes.

Maybe you believe that but you can't fool us. Your topics and posts show otherwise.

You are 'friends'. All you can do is offer your help and support. If he doesn't accept it then you do nothing. Nada.

You really need to sort yourself out and let this guy go once and for all.

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