I saw a homeless guy shoplifting today

[K.K.]

I wouldn’t have said or done anything. I would’ve minded my own business which usually works out best in almost any scenario. Minding someone else’s business- good way to get yourself shanked. 

Storybookland feel good scenario 

See someone shoplifting. Whispers to shoplifter *hey buddy I see you’re stealing, let me buy this for you instead* Shoplifter breaks down in tears of joy thanks you profusely. Someone else not minding their business videos it all, puts it on Facebook, gets many likes, go fund me is created. Shoplifter now has loads of money for ‘food’. Aww beautiful humanity. Crime pays! 
 

Real life more likely outcome

See someone shoplifting. Whispers to shoplifter *hey buddy I see you’re steal..*

“Bitch, what the fk you just say to me ?!?!!“ 

STAB STAB STAB. 

 

 

[Happy Lemming]

12 minutes ago, K.K. said:

Real life more likely outcome

See someone shoplifting. Whispers to shoplifter *hey buddy I see you’re steal..*

“Bitch, what the fk you just say to me ?!?!!“ 

STAB STAB STAB.

Most of the homeless are mentally unstable and its best to give them a wide berth.  The above scenario is actually more truth than most people realize.  Panhandlers have gotten quite aggressive and their ability to get what they need is getting harder due to the decrease in foot traffic.

[introverted1]

In my area, and in most of the US, the homeless are comprised of either the mentally ill, most of whom are self-medicating with drugs or alcohol, or drug/alcohol addicts. What money they get from well-meaning citizens is spent on drugs/alcohol.  In fact, a few who regularly hold signs asking for money at the highway exits have decided that humorous honesty is the best policy and now hold signs saying "Need a beer.  Any $ will help."  There are plenty of support organizations willing to help with housing, food, and job placement but getting clean is a requirement and most reject this.  As such, the homeless people you see in the supermarket are typically those who have access to assistance but have refused it. I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think it's as simple as buying food.

[Ellener]

I have a mental illness and I could very well have ended up homeless a few weeks ago when the pandemic started. It's an easier thing to happen than I'd imagined. 

I think it's unlikely that the homeless population uses drugs or alcohol any differently than the rest of the population, just it's perceived differently, as is their mental illness.

I also imagine a homeless person is more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a perpetrator, they are fairly vulnerable.

I did some reading, National Coalition for the Homeless:

There is an ongoing myth that homelessness has always existed. But the current era of homelessness came to be after severe cuts to federal affordable housing programs in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Around the same time, the Reagan Administration deinstitutionalized residential mental health facilities, without providing for the housing and health care needs of those needing assistance to reenter their communities.

and

Examples of municipal codes that criminalise life sustaining behavior include:

• Laws that prohibit sleeping in public citywide • Laws that prohibit sleeping in a particular public place • Laws that prohibit camping in public citywide • Laws that prohibit camping in a particular public space • Laws that prohibit sitting/lying in a particular public space • Laws that prohibit lodging, living, or sleeping in vehicles or parking a vehicle used as a lodging/living accommodation • Laws that prohibit loitering/loafing/ vagrancy city-wide • Laws that prohibit loitering/loafing in particular public places • Laws that prohibit begging in public places • Laws that prohibit food sharing city-wide or in particular public places i.e. ban.

I expect we will be seeing more homelessness in the US following the pandemic. 

 

 

[introverted1]

Just now, Ellener said:

I think it's unlikely that the homeless population uses drugs or alcohol any differently than the rest of the population, just it's perceived differently, as is their mental illness.

"The National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent, and 26% are dependent on other harmful chemicals."

'The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates that over 50 percent of the individuals living in supportive housing programs had either a substance use disorder, a psychiatric disorder, or both."

 

[alphamale]

1 hour ago, K.K. said:

Real life more likely outcome

See someone shoplifting. Whispers to shoplifter *hey buddy I see you’re steal..*

“Bitch, what the fk you just say to me ?!?!!“ 

STAB STAB STAB. 

 

 

its more like SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT

[Ellener]

7 hours ago, Haydn said:

Homeless man looks thoughtful....

`You better take my coat, you are worse of than me!`

Funny! 

I feel the same as you, I've never been 'ripped off' or felt threatened. 

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

"The National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent, and 26% are dependent on other harmful chemicals."

'The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates that over 50 percent of the individuals living in supportive housing programs had either a substance use disorder, a psychiatric disorder, or both."

And how is that any different to the general population? We had to keep liquor stores open as essential during the lockdown.

If the supportive housing projects are designed for people with problems I imagine the people there will have- problems.

 

[introverted1]

32 minutes ago, Ellener said:

And how is that any different to the general population? We had to keep liquor stores open as essential during the lockdown.

 

Do you really think that 64% of the general population is dependent on drugs or alcohol? 

ETA:  liquor stores had to stay open because DTs can be fatal, so it was "essential" that alcoholics had access to liquor.

Edited June 29, 2020 by introverted1

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

Do you really think that 64% of the general population is dependent on drugs or alcohol? 

I can't say the figures but a lot of people seem to use alcohol/pot/prescription drugs. 

[introverted1]

1 minute ago, Ellener said:

I can't say the figures but a lot of people seem to use alcohol/pot/prescription drugs. 

You are conflating usage with dependency. 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

You are conflating usage with dependency. 

I don't see a difference! except to the individual. 

 

[introverted1]

48 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I don't see a difference! except to the individual. 

 

Really?  No difference between social drinking and alcoholism, for example?

In that case, I don't think we have a common basis for further discussion, so I will bow out.

[preraph]

In big cities, I understand it can be a logistics problem getting to the food banks.  There was one on my way to work some years ago and they homeless tended to congregate nearby, but it wasn't a good panhandling location, and most of the good ones of those aren't close to a food bank, so don't know what the answer is.  

 

I do know if you're genuinely disabled, you are collecting enough disability to live somewhere without being out panhandling and that panhandling is harder work than a lot of jobs you could be applying for.  (In the U.S.)

Mental illness is a huge problem.  And I don't like to see veterans on the street.  Likewise, if they're disabled, they should be able to live somewhere, but sometimes it's mental issues drives them out or substance issues.  There is no easy answer.  
 

It's mostly people who want to spend that money on substances, from what it looks like around here, at least.  Skinny methheads mostly whose faces look unhealthy and old.  

Edited June 29, 2020 by preraph

[preraph]

4 hours ago, introverted1 said:

"The National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent, and 26% are dependent on other harmful chemicals."

'The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates that over 50 percent of the individuals living in supportive housing programs had either a substance use disorder, a psychiatric disorder, or both."

 

Thanks for the stats!  Interesting.

[lana-banana]

So much weird and sad stuff in this thread. So someone can just go somewhere else in town and get a meal? Do people not realize that these facilities often have wait lists and very onerous requirements (like submitting to a drug test or proof of having filled out job applications) before they even give you a sandwich and a juice box? If the shelter is on the other side of town, how are you supposed to get there---use your nonexistent bus fare? Walk 3 miles in the rain? What if the facility is closed? What if they're full? What are you supposed to do?

I am not sure why we are surprised that people experiencing homelessness often have substance abuse issues. You have no money, no home, no job, no certainty of your next meal, no safe place to sleep or even relieve yourself; how exactly are you supposed to live? Anyone who can endure that without resorting to some kind of substance is frankly superhuman.

Let people who aren't harming you or anyone else be and buy people's food if you can. Whatever happened to "There but for the grace of God go I"?

 

 

 

[Cornholio12]

I’d done nothing. Hell, I’d probably bought his meal for him. But it’s not my place and snitching get you nowhere but a free trip to the hospital or the morgue. How does the saying go? Snitches get stitches. That’s right. But that’s just my take. 

[Ellener]

@lana-banana I find a lot of things people say about homelessness or mental illness or addiction or poverty to be critical, judgmental and uncaring. After the pandemic lots of people will find themselves in the same situations, through no fault of their own, but better-off people will look down on them as though it is no doubt. 

 

 

[nittygritty]

The injustice happened to the business owner being stolen from. Not the thief who did it and got away with it.

Edited June 29, 2020 by nittygritty

[alphamale]

1 hour ago, nittygritty said:

The injustice happened to the business owner being stolen from. Not the thief who did it and got away with it.

the injustice happens to the society as a whole

[LuckyM]

How do you know he is homeless? He may have food to eat. Was he taking junk or snacks? Or nourishment? He might have the money.

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

This is not your responsibility; as a customer, you are actually potentially putting the business in a legally compromising position if the confrontation goes bad... These stores have to stop theft themselves, any store that relies on its patrons to stop theft will be a hot spot for law suits, mainly because regardless if its in his pocket or whatever, you haven't saw him try to leave yet so the intent of actual theft isnt established, I know public opinion says otherwise but in court public opinion will not save you.

If these stores are going to survive, they have to find a way to deal with theft internally or they will simply be overcome.

[Happy Lemming]

22 hours ago, nittygritty said:

The injustice happened to the business owner being stolen from.

The business owner will pass the loss onto the other customers in the form of higher prices.

Many businesses have a certain amount of theft built into their business model/budget and thus raise prices to allow for it.  It is similar to other business having an "Allowance for Doubtful Accounts" or "Bad Debt Expense" and thus part of the pricing for goods and services.

[BC1980]

I would have just ignored it.