Author 808Traveler Posted June 19, 2020 Author Posted June 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, Erik30 said: I mean... not to be a jerk but you're basically describing your own behaviour here Thanks
Erik30 Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: Thanks Yeah sorry, but just look at your first post... she gave you a second shot after all of that, and now she's the one who's insecure? I'm not saying you should take her skydiving for that second date though , especially if you're having some doubts. Reschedule and do something else that won't cost you that much. (Or let her go) 4 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 6 hours ago, 808Traveler said: It's not on her bucket list. She enjoys skydiving like I do. This won't be our first time. Yes it's clear I'm way more into her then she is into me. There's a way to fix this, I'll just get interested into someone else. I'm not sure this makes sense. You'll get her more interested in you by taking her on this huge date, but dating someone else too? I think after all this back-and-forth and drama and stuff she'll run...sorry to say that. I'm not trying to get you more riled up, but...don't play games and don't apologize...just date. If she likes you she does. If not you can't "trick" her into it with rules. That can work for a minute or two with someone really insecure but you're the more insecure one here, and that's not me condemning you, that's what you actually said. And when it "works" for a minute and she seems more interested, what then? You pretend forever to be somebody you're not? The "rules" (ahem) that I think you're following never say what happens after you treat her more like dirt and she does a sudden turnaround on cue (not guaranteed except with a train wreck girlfriend but let's just move forward with this). What then? What about the next date and the next? If the only reason she's into you is that you've ignored her or been cold, you have to ignore her and be cold forever or she'll be gone. You think you can keep that up? You're a wreck over this as it is. Why not just act normal and reasonable, go on normal dates, chat informally and have it be fun, and then see if she really does like you? Is that not done anymore? Is it de reguer to not play a thousand games in order to escalate and close and increase your status and blah blah? Just go out for coffee...and be interested and fun and not begging or ignoring... This is way too much...she's going to bolt. Chill.
Author 808Traveler Posted June 19, 2020 Author Posted June 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: I'm not sure this makes sense. You'll get her more interested in you by taking her on this huge date, but dating someone else too? I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion by what I said. This is not at all what I meant. Going on other dates keeps me from getting attached and I’m able to look for the best match for me. Not to worry, when I’m on dates I’m a gentleman and I don’t play games like ignoring them. I make it a point to be attentive, charming, funny, and caring. 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion by what I said. This is not at all what I meant. Going on other dates keeps me from getting attached and I’m able to look for the best match for me. Not to worry, when I’m on dates I’m a gentleman and I don’t play games like ignoring them. I make it a point to be attentive, charming, funny, and caring. Okay. Well, stated this way you sound like that fun guy girls like. Relax and enjoy, and happy birthday.
preraph Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion by what I said. This is not at all what I meant. Going on other dates keeps me from getting attached and I’m able to look for the best match for me. Not to worry, when I’m on dates I’m a gentleman and I don’t play games like ignoring them. I make it a point to be attentive, charming, funny, and caring. You say you make it a point to be attentive charming funny and caring, but that is the total opposite of what you told us in your initial post. 3
basil67 Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 7 hours ago, 808Traveler said: For Sunday I am debating of pulling back and canceling because even though we have a lot in common I'm picking up on some serious insecurities. Insecurity that comes off as a false confidence almost arrogant. I'm not a big fan of this. You are describing your own behaviour here, especially in your most recent posts. Have you considered that she's being so forgiving because she recognises that the two of you are similar? 4
Juha Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) First, texting every day is way too much contact with someone you are just starting to date. Second, way overboard on the 2nd date. Too much, too early Third, it was your birthday and you have no family or friends for it? Taking a stranger out on an elaborate date for your birthday? Fourth, you are all over the place with this girl. Now you are saying she is the problem? Just so much more that is all over the place here, I feel sorry for this woman to be honest Update on what happened today, if anything??? Edited June 22, 2020 by Juha 3
Roswell91 Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) On 6/17/2020 at 9:52 AM, 808Traveler said: I met a girl on Bumble and we connected over personal interests and beliefs. When we met for our first date yesterday Tuesday, she was so attractive it threw me off the entire night. I wasn't cool, calm, and collected. After dinner we went for a walk and I asked if she noticed I was nervous and she said she could tell the moment we met because I couldn't make eye contact. I asked her if it would have made a difference if I would have shown up more confident and she said yeah. I told her that I find her so beautiful that my heart literally skipped a beat when I first saw her. She said oh now I'm blushing. On the walk I was nervous, and could not focus. We went to a tent pub and grabbed a drink and walked around. During the walk she had a song stuck in her head, I played it on my phone and I set the phone down and went to try and dance with her. She said oh no I don't feel like dancing in public. At one point I went inside a bar to use the restroom and when I came out she said she had to get home before dark because she didn't have her bike light. She said that it wasn't an excuse and she actually couldn't find her light because she just moved to the city. She volunteered this information. We hung out a little more and she wanted me to walk with her to get her bike, and she showed me she didn't have her light. She said we will talk some more later. After she left I immediately felt like I was going to throw up from being so nervous. (This has never happen to me before.) The following is the transcript of text messages that took place during my train ride home. Her: Let me know if you get home safe Me: I will Her: I had fun tonight! Was a nice dinner, walk and talk! Me: Glad you enjoyed! I had fun too. Her: Me: I’m a little embarrassed to be honest. I wasn’t as confident as usual and for some reason my insecurities completely through me off my game today. I’m sure you picked up on it from the start. It was still nice to finally meet you Her: Yes I noticed you were somewhat insecure and nervous, but it’s really okay. I understand. I’m also glad I got to meet you! Me: Thanks. As I’m sure you know those are two things that can lower attraction. My goal tonight was to continue building it. Anyway, I hope you have a good night. Her: I’m not sure what to say. I can only hope you don’t feel anything negative towards yourself or feel embarrassed, cos I did have a nice time. We can talk this through later on, if you wish. Me: You’re good, I was just being vulnerable. Thank you for listening. I don’t feel negatively towards you or myself and I’m happy you had a nice time I’m in Delft, I hope you have a good night Her: You too! Sleep well. Some female friends said it's not as bad as it seems and that she'll probably want to meet again. My mentor said to say something like this: "I found you so attractive that it threw me off and I acted stupid. I'm sure it's happened to you before. I want to hang out and get to know you as a person. Like having a friend covered in tattoos. After awhile you don't notice the tats. And only see the person. You'll still be beautiful but I see you for you and what's more than skin deep. Do guys generally act stupid around you?" I'm debating on texting her tomorrow, giving it two days between the interaction, to ask if she wants to hang out on Sunday. Or. Message her next Monday giving it 6 days between the interaction. I'm feeling very anxious because I like how this girl and I connected for the 3 days prior to meeting. What's your take and advice. Thank you! You're coming across as someone (to her) who has little experience with women and/or has self esteem and issues with self confidence. Even if this is the case, don't ever convey that in follow up messages, if you want success that is. However she wants to see you again, which is a good sign, so please go with the flow and play it cool if you can't be cool. On a sidenote the message your mentor wanted you to send was not the best either. Sorry. Edited June 22, 2020 by Roswell91
balletomane Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 OP, going by this and your other threads about different women, you lack confidence when dating. But rather than acknowledge this to yourself (and there's no reason why you shouldn't - nerves are nothing shameful!), you insist that you're not normally like this, that you're attracted to confident women and they tend to be attracted to you, and so on. When other forum users make suggestions, you assure them that you already do those things. To be honest, it reads as if you worry how other people might perceive you and you go out of your way to seek approval. All this is a product of nerves and insecurity, and your apparent belief that to be successful in dating you need to act in a very specific way as dictated by dubious mentoring advice. Trying to act the part just puts extra pressure on you and will pull down your confidence further. Lots of people are anxious in this area, and there's no harm in admitting it. There IS harm in trying to rationalise your insecure behaviour on dates and then acting as if your date was the one with the problem. 4
Author 808Traveler Posted June 22, 2020 Author Posted June 22, 2020 The date was good. I listened to her talk mostly and kept it fun and light hearted. After the jump I asked how she would feel if I wanted to kiss her and she said she just wanted to be friends. She said that after I called her trouble on Saturday over text that she was afraid that I would hurt her. I explained I was just playing, but she didn’t understand. I stayed calm, she took me out for lunch, and then instead of going home at 5 like she planned she took the long way and showed me some cool sites and we got back shortly after 6. During the drive at one point I said this will probably be the last time we see each other, and she said no it won’t. At the end I went to give her a kiss, and she gave me a hug, then I went in for the kiss again and we kissed twice. I was leaving the car and she said she was sad that she was never going to see me again. I told her the door works both ways and to give me a call sometime and we can see where it goes. She said take care. I haven’t messaged her since. I’m debating between waiting about 10 days to see if she wants to hang out on a weekend or just walking away. I understand it’s best to walk away. I don’t feel like it’s the right thing to do with her because of how much we have in common and how well we get along. It’s not every day you meet a girl who is down to jump out of a plane. Your advice is always welcome
Author 808Traveler Posted June 22, 2020 Author Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: So how did the date go? I think it went as well as could be expected given my past behavior
SumGuy Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: .... She said that after I called her trouble on Saturday over text that she was afraid that I would hurt her. I explained I was just playing, but she didn’t understand. You seem to ignore this part and how it might inform all her subsequent actions on the date. Quote I stayed calm,... Why wouldn't you? Why do you mention this? If you were upset but stayed calm, she may well have picked up on your being upset, which would reinforce her belief. Quote At the end I went to give her a kiss, and she gave me a hug, then I went in for the kiss again and we kissed twice. You went for a kiss, she gave you a hug, but you still went in again...and this time she kissed you "twice." I wasn't there but this seems to be pretty reluctant to me, and could well be not wanting to upset you. A couple kisses is not generally intense interest, intense interest there is no "counting" the kisses....usually pretty long and where one kiss ends and another begins is not clear. Quote I’m debating between waiting about 10 days to see if she wants to hang out on a weekend or just walking away. Even though I think you should walk away, is the 10 day thing significant in any way? Quote I understand it’s best to walk away. I don’t feel like it’s the right thing to do with her because of how much we have in common and how well we get along. It’s not every day you meet a girl who is down to jump out of a plane. It is best to walk away, this in common thing and how well we get along is how you view it. Anyone who is afraid you might hurt them and doesn't understand this is you "playing" is in my book not feeling the commonality, there is no connection there. My advice, walk away. Adventurous women who like to skydive are not that hard to find. Edited June 22, 2020 by SumGuy 1
Author 808Traveler Posted June 22, 2020 Author Posted June 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, SumGuy said: You seem to ignore this part and how it might inform all her subsequent actions on the date. Why wouldn't you? Why do you mention this? If you were upset but stayed calm, she may well have picked up on your being upset, which would reinforce her belief. You went for a kiss, she gave you a hug, but you still went in again...and this time she kissed you "twice." I wasn't there but this seems to be pretty reluctant to me, and could well be not wanting to upset you. A couple kisses is not generally intense interest, intense interest there is no "counting" the kisses....usually pretty long and where one kiss ends and another begins is not clear. Even though I think you should walk away, is the 10 day thing significant in any way? It is best to walk away, this in common thing and how well we get along is how you view it. Anyone who is afraid you might hurt them and doesn't understand this is you "playing" is in my book not feeling the commonality, there is no connection there. My advice, walk away. Adventurous women who like to skydive are not that hard to find. I mentioned the staying calm because that is what other recommended I do. I wasn't keeping count of the kisses at the time it just occurred to me after the fact. The 10 days is just something a Brazilian friend of mine recommended doing, because this girl is Brasilian.
SumGuy Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: I mentioned the staying calm because that is what other recommended I do. I'm not even certain how to respond to that...as don't see anything in your description that would requiring staying calm, as in, see nothing that would perturb ones calm. Quote I wasn't keeping count of the kisses at the time it just occurred to me after the fact. Fair enough, but still the description says it all. When I've had that "into you" kiss, it is more we kissed for 10 minutes, or more...had to pull ourselves apart. A kiss or two is more a parting kiss. Quote The 10 days is just something a Brazilian friend of mine recommended doing, because this girl is Brasilian. So it is game playing, is this the mentor I've seen mentioned? Edited June 22, 2020 by SumGuy
Author 808Traveler Posted June 23, 2020 Author Posted June 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, SumGuy said: I'm not even certain how to respond to that...as don't see anything in your description that would requiring staying calm, as in, see nothing that would perturb ones calm. Fair enough, but still the description says it all. When I've had that "into you" kiss, it is more we kissed for 10 minutes, or more...had to pull ourselves apart. A kiss or two is more a parting kiss. So it is game playing, is this the mentor I've seen mentioned? No my mentor recommends just walking away and to live a life of abundance. It's not a game, it was recommended to give her some time to breath and time to reflect and think. She really did not want us to quit communicating after yesterday and I could tell she was sad about it. I would love to keep talking to her, I just can't do it as friends.
Miss Spider Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) Wow did you pay for the date? She’s not interested and yes the first date was probably irredeemable. You will probably continue to have this problem with women you’re into as long as you continue put people on pedestals and have a fallacious scarcity mindset such as “women who go skydiving are hard to find” like literally every week I see a post on FB about one of my fb friends going skydiving lol. It’s very common Edited June 23, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1
Author 808Traveler Posted June 23, 2020 Author Posted June 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: Wow did you pay for the date? She’s not interested and yes the first date was probably irredeemable. You will probably continue to have this problem with women you’re into as long as you continue put people on pedestals and have a fallacious scarcity mindset such as “women who go skydiving are hard to find” like literally every week I see a post on FB about one of my fb friends going skydiving lol. It’s very common Yeah I paid for the skydiving. you’re right, even though I’m getting two matches a day on the dating apps I still have a scarcity mindset.
clia Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 12 hours ago, 808Traveler said: After the jump I asked how she would feel if I wanted to kiss her and she said she just wanted to be friends. She said that after I called her trouble on Saturday over text that she was afraid that I would hurt her. I explained I was just playing, but she didn’t understand. It seems like she knew going in to the date that she wasn't interested in you. The "trouble" thing might've been an excuse or it might've truly been the reason. My suspicion is that there was more to it than that. But this is why you don't pay for expensive things like skydiving on a second date. Quote I stayed calm, she took me out for lunch, and then instead of going home at 5 like she planned she took the long way and showed me some cool sites and we got back shortly after 6. This is her feeling guilty for letting you pay for skydiving and then dumping you. Nothing more. I'm also bothered by your "I stayed calm" comment. What was the other option, getting angry at her? That's a little scary. Quote During the drive at one point I said this will probably be the last time we see each other, and she said no it won’t. Yes, it was. She's either just being nice or is trying to make herself feel less guilty for dumping you after you paid for her skydiving. Quote At the end I went to give her a kiss, and she gave me a hug, then I went in for the kiss again and we kissed twice. Ugh. She went along with the kisses because she didn't know what else to do. Maybe she was a little afraid of you? ("I stayed calm....") She told you before she didn't want a kiss and just wanted to be friends, so you should not have gone for it again. This is just cringey. Quote I was leaving the car and she said she was sad that she was never going to see me again. Again, saying all of this is just her trying to make herself feel better. Quote I told her the door works both ways and to give me a call sometime and we can see where it goes. She said take care. Ouch, harsh. Take care means "I will never see you again, goodbye!" Quote I haven’t messaged her since. I’m debating between waiting about 10 days to see if she wants to hang out on a weekend or just walking away. There is no reason to ever message her again. She has no interest in dating you. Move on. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 Just walk away from this one, OP. She isn't interested. She sounds like a kind person who doesn't want to hurt you or make things awkward, but she's not feeling it romantically. 1
Miss Spider Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, 808Traveler said: Yeah I paid for the skydiving. you’re right, even though I’m getting two matches a day on the dating apps I still have a scarcity mindset. I'm a chick so I get literally endless matches on dating apps. Still feels people I like are scarce. I can keep frame when I find one though because people aren't that special at the end of the day.. Especially people that want to be friends but allow you to pay their way ...like a date... Edited June 23, 2020 by Cookiesandough
d0nnivain Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 This is why you should not pay for expensive outings as an early date. She used you for "free" skydiving. The price she paid was 2 kisses because you practically forced them on her. Learn to take no for an answer. I'm sorry that you are hurting but what, if anything, have you learned from this? Seriously. There are so many lessons here. I'm curious to know if your eyes have been opened.
Author 808Traveler Posted June 23, 2020 Author Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, d0nnivain said: This is why you should not pay for expensive outings as an early date. She used you for "free" skydiving. The price she paid was 2 kisses because you practically forced them on her. Learn to take no for an answer. I'm sorry that you are hurting but what, if anything, have you learned from this? Seriously. There are so many lessons here. I'm curious to know if your eyes have been opened. Thank you, I've learned that paying for expensive outings when the person is not your partner is a no go. I've learned that I need to take some time to work on myself to raise my insecurities and confidence. I need to learn how to set up proper boundaries and what my boundaries are. I need to learn how to read a person and their attraction level with me. I need to develop more self love so as not to be ok with being in the friend zone. Am I missing anything? 1
d0nnivain Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 You got the big ones & are on the right track so this experience wasn't a total loss. You will come out stronger, wiser & better.
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