808Traveler Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 I met a girl on Bumble and we connected over personal interests and beliefs. When we met for our first date yesterday Tuesday, she was so attractive it threw me off the entire night. I wasn't cool, calm, and collected. After dinner we went for a walk and I asked if she noticed I was nervous and she said she could tell the moment we met because I couldn't make eye contact. I asked her if it would have made a difference if I would have shown up more confident and she said yeah. I told her that I find her so beautiful that my heart literally skipped a beat when I first saw her. She said oh now I'm blushing. On the walk I was nervous, and could not focus. We went to a tent pub and grabbed a drink and walked around. During the walk she had a song stuck in her head, I played it on my phone and I set the phone down and went to try and dance with her. She said oh no I don't feel like dancing in public. At one point I went inside a bar to use the restroom and when I came out she said she had to get home before dark because she didn't have her bike light. She said that it wasn't an excuse and she actually couldn't find her light because she just moved to the city. She volunteered this information. We hung out a little more and she wanted me to walk with her to get her bike, and she showed me she didn't have her light. She said we will talk some more later. After she left I immediately felt like I was going to throw up from being so nervous. (This has never happen to me before.) The following is the transcript of text messages that took place during my train ride home. Her: Let me know if you get home safe Me: I will Her: :) I had fun tonight! Was a nice dinner, walk and talk! :) Me: Glad you enjoyed! I had fun too. Her: :) Me: I’m a little embarrassed to be honest. I wasn’t as confident as usual and for some reason my insecurities completely through me off my game today. I’m sure you picked up on it from the start. It was still nice to finally meet you Her: Yes I noticed you were somewhat insecure and nervous, but it’s really okay. I understand. I’m also glad I got to meet you! Me: Thanks. As I’m sure you know those are two things that can lower attraction. My goal tonight was to continue building it. Anyway, I hope you have a good night. Her: I’m not sure what to say. I can only hope you don’t feel anything negative towards yourself or feel embarrassed, cos I did have a nice time. We can talk this through later on, if you wish. Me: You’re good, I was just being vulnerable. Thank you for listening. I don’t feel negatively towards you or myself and I’m happy you had a nice time I’m in Delft, I hope you have a good night Her: You too! Sleep well. Some female friends said it's not as bad as it seems and that she'll probably want to meet again. My mentor said to say something like this: "I found you so attractive that it threw me off and I acted stupid. I'm sure it's happened to you before. I want to hang out and get to know you as a person. Like having a friend covered in tattoos. After awhile you don't notice the tats. And only see the person. You'll still be beautiful but I see you for you and what's more than skin deep. Do guys generally act stupid around you?" I'm debating on texting her tomorrow, giving it two days between the interaction, to ask if she wants to hang out on Sunday. Or. Message her next Monday giving it 6 days between the interaction. I'm feeling very anxious because I like how this girl and I connected for the 3 days prior to meeting. What's your take and advice. Thank you!
Erik30 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: asked her if it would have made a difference if I would have shown up more confident and she said yeah. 7 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: Me: I’m a little embarrassed to be honest. I wasn’t as confident as usual and for some reason my insecurities completely through me off my game today. I’m sure you picked up on it from the start. It was still nice to finally meet you Don't say things like that to her. I could see that being a turn off. Most girls like confident guys. It was a first date so she probably understands you being nervous, but it was obvious so no need to point it out and make it a big deal. 16 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: "I found you so attractive that it threw me off and I acted stupid. I'm sure it's happened to you before. I want to hang out and get to know you as a person. Like having a friend covered in tattoos. After awhile you don't notice the tats. And only see the person. You'll still be beautiful but I see you for you and what's more than skin deep. Do guys generally act stupid around you?" No, I just wouldn't bring it up anymore. All of it makes you look very insecure. She either likes you or she doesn't. Just ask her out again, and definitely don't wait till Monday 8 1
Author 808Traveler Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 She reached out this morning asking how I was. After short conversation about Hawaii music and our busy days I took the opportunity to ask her out again. We are going Sunday. I anticipated that she would be coming from a place of dominance given our last interaction and I was correct when she started setting the frame. e.g She has to be back by 5pm because she wants to disconnect and saying but what are we going to do on Sunday. I decided to take a more confident approach and sent her the following message. You are truly a powerhouse and it seems like it gives you calm to be in control. If your ok with surprises I’ll just give you just the necessary details. If not I’ll give you more information. I’m proposing ( in a non machismo way ) because you got so much going on right now let me take the lead on this one and you just focus on having fun and relaxing I promise to keep it safe and adventurous She of course is continuing to try and control the frame as we are texting right now. I'm playful and courteous and at the same time I keep reassuring her that my main focus is for her to relax and just have fun. 1 1
ChatroomHero Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 Honestly your interactions seem cringey. Any confidence you might have is being thrown away with your texts and over-compliments and apologizing and reinforcing how nervous and anxious you are. You are putting her on a pedestal and not interacting with her like a person. It's good that she will see you again but I think if you keep interacting like a lost puppy afraid of your own shadow and gushing over her, it reeks of desperation, infatuation and neediness. I mean after the first date you texted her and it sounded like a whoa is me, I am beta, please forgive me, I understand if you run, I am soooo insecure, you are sooo beautiful, I would jump off a bridge if you told me to. All you needed to say, if anything, is I know I was off on the date but I would like to see you again. Confidence is not saying...you are a powerhouse, would it maybe kinda possibly be ok if I planned a date and keep it a surprise? If not I will totally do whatever you ask of me and bow down to whatever you want because you are sooooo beautiful. Confidence is saying she said yes to a 2nd date and simply telling her you have an idea you think is fun and rolling the dice and taking a chance that she loves or hates whatever you choose. Confidence is if you choose something she doesn't like, oh well. Confidence is being nervous as hell and dealing with it and not telling her, "I am nervous as hell, please, please, please forgive me for your beauty knows no bounds and I am but a humble husk, lucky to have a chance at any breadcrumb you let fall my way!". Honestly, you will do better texting her something like, "Sunday, 5pm. I have a fun idea that will be a surprise. Bring a winter coat, bathing suit, a small snack, at least 2 forms of ID, walking shoes, 4 ketchup packets and a fancy hat. You in?" and not telling her what you have planned. And especially not asking her if it is ok if you don't tell her what you have planned. It just seems your interaction with her even after she agreed to meet up again is still gushing over her and reinforcing that you are beta and need her approval. You apologize for being nervous and beta and she accepts and then you continue to show you are beta. Your next interaction try to leave out all compliments and do not ask for her approval or 'forgiveness' for something you do. I think if you keep down the path of neediness she will get tired of it really quickly. 12
Hopeful30 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, 808Traveler said: I met a girl on Bumble and we connected over personal interests and beliefs. When we met for our first date yesterday Tuesday, she was so attractive it threw me off the entire night. I wasn't cool, calm, and collected. After dinner we went for a walk and I asked if she noticed I was nervous and she said she could tell the moment we met because I couldn't make eye contact. I asked her if it would have made a difference if I would have shown up more confident and she said yeah. I told her that I find her so beautiful that my heart literally skipped a beat when I first saw her. She said oh now I'm blushing. On the walk I was nervous, and could not focus. We went to a tent pub and grabbed a drink and walked around. During the walk she had a song stuck in her head, I played it on my phone and I set the phone down and went to try and dance with her. She said oh no I don't feel like dancing in public. At one point I went inside a bar to use the restroom and when I came out she said she had to get home before dark because she didn't have her bike light. She said that it wasn't an excuse and she actually couldn't find her light because she just moved to the city. She volunteered this information. We hung out a little more and she wanted me to walk with her to get her bike, and she showed me she didn't have her light. She said we will talk some more later. After she left I immediately felt like I was going to throw up from being so nervous. (This has never happen to me before.) The following is the transcript of text messages that took place during my train ride home. Her: Let me know if you get home safe Me: I will Her: I had fun tonight! Was a nice dinner, walk and talk! Me: Glad you enjoyed! I had fun too. Her: Me: I’m a little embarrassed to be honest. I wasn’t as confident as usual and for some reason my insecurities completely through me off my game today. I’m sure you picked up on it from the start. It was still nice to finally meet you Her: Yes I noticed you were somewhat insecure and nervous, but it’s really okay. I understand. I’m also glad I got to meet you! Me: Thanks. As I’m sure you know those are two things that can lower attraction. My goal tonight was to continue building it. Anyway, I hope you have a good night. Her: I’m not sure what to say. I can only hope you don’t feel anything negative towards yourself or feel embarrassed, cos I did have a nice time. We can talk this through later on, if you wish. Me: You’re good, I was just being vulnerable. Thank you for listening. I don’t feel negatively towards you or myself and I’m happy you had a nice time I’m in Delft, I hope you have a good night Her: You too! Sleep well. Some female friends said it's not as bad as it seems and that she'll probably want to meet again. My mentor said to say something like this: "I found you so attractive that it threw me off and I acted stupid. I'm sure it's happened to you before. I want to hang out and get to know you as a person. Like having a friend covered in tattoos. After awhile you don't notice the tats. And only see the person. You'll still be beautiful but I see you for you and what's more than skin deep. Do guys generally act stupid around you?" I'm debating on texting her tomorrow, giving it two days between the interaction, to ask if she wants to hang out on Sunday. Or. Message her next Monday giving it 6 days between the interaction. I'm feeling very anxious because I like how this girl and I connected for the 3 days prior to meeting. What's your take and advice. Thank you! The reason she is taking control is because you handed it to her on a silver platter. She OWNS you, and she knows it. You keep confirming this with your texts about bowing down to her needs and making sure you are seen in a positive light. You are overcompensating for your feelings of nervousness, and basically told her you will do whatever it takes to please her. That's easy to take advantage of. She likes you enough to see you again, so this is your second chance. Hold your ground, be yourself, stop apologizing, and remember that beauty is not love. We are much more than our physical appearance, and there is nothing more that a beautiful woman wants than a man who sees past her face/body (although still appreciates it) to know the REAL woman inside. That's where the true beauty lies. Edited June 17, 2020 by Hopeful30 5 1
clia Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) I agree with Chatroom that your interactions with her are cringey. I mean, look, most people are at least a little nervous/anxious on a first date. It's fine to mention that briefly and laugh it off, but the way you keep bringing it up is just...eek. You should not have mentioned it at all in the texts following the date. You don't need to share your every thought and emotion with a person who you just met. She obviously liked you enough to see you again (and to text you after the date), so I'm not sure why you think you bombed the date. However, if you keep up these cringey interactions, she will likely be turned off. Quote I decided to take a more confident approach and sent her the following message. You are truly a powerhouse and it seems like it gives you calm to be in control. If your ok with surprises I’ll just give you just the necessary details. If not I’ll give you more information. I’m proposing ( in a non machismo way ) because you got so much going on right now let me take the lead on this one and you just focus on having fun and relaxing I promise to keep it safe and adventurous This does not come across as confident to me. You are analyzing her behavior and overexplaining everything. You are asking her to let you take the lead -- don't do that -- just take it. It's a second date -- you don't need to go overboard here. If you are really planning something that you think might be questionable, pick a different activity and save that one for when you get to know her better. All of these surprises, I'll just tell you this or that, etc. almost seems like too much at this stage. Just tell her "Let's do X," and "I'll pick you up at X time" (or meet you there or whatever you have planned). And telling you she wants to be home by 5 isn't being domineering, either. It's her telling you when she is available that day. You can take it or leave it. If you want a date that goes past that, just suggest another day. Edited June 17, 2020 by clia 4
Author 808Traveler Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, ChatroomHero said: Honestly, you will do better texting her something like, "Sunday, 5pm. I have a fun idea that will be a surprise. Bring a winter coat, bathing suit, a small snack, at least 2 forms of ID, walking shoes, 4 ketchup packets and a fancy hat. You in?" and not telling her what you have planned. And especially not asking her if it is ok if you don't tell her what you have planned. It just seems your interaction with her even after she agreed to meet up again is still gushing over her and reinforcing that you are beta and need her approval. You apologize for being nervous and beta and she accepts and then you continue to show you are beta. Your next interaction try to leave out all compliments and do not ask for her approval or 'forgiveness' for something you do. I think if you keep down the path of neediness she will get tired of it really quickly. Sadly that type of approach won't work with this girl. I was able to keep my frame and take the lead. Girls like this need some control on knowing what's going on. At least in the beginning until they get the feeling that you know them. e.g she specifically said this "you don’t know me well enough to plan a surprise. Indeed, it doesn’t give me a sense of calm to not know anything about it. I am sure I will have more fun and relax if I know what’s going on."
Author 808Traveler Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 I'm looking at stuff I would like to do for Sunday. My thinking is that by having a few options of things I enjoy doing it's conveying who I am and also if she's not into it then it's not a good match. I will agree I've been too responsive and need to get busy at being busy. I'm aware that this is the point where I need to set boundaries otherwise I risk of conveying I'm the type of guy a girl can walk all over. I have a routine and schedule and I'll stick to it and I will message her when I"m available not as soon as she messages me. Yesterday was something new I've experienced and I've had many successful dates and relationships. I take time to reflect, become centered, and bring my best self to the table. If it's not enough for her, her loss. I'm still loving life
ExpatInItaly Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 4 hours ago, 808Traveler said: Me: Thanks. As I’m sure you know those are two things that can lower attraction. My goal tonight was to continue building it. Anyway, I hope you have a good night. My mentor said to say something like this: "I found you so attractive that it threw me off and I acted stupid. I'm sure it's happened to you before. I want to hang out and get to know you as a person. Like having a friend covered in tattoos. After awhile you don't notice the tats. And only see the person. You'll still be beautiful but I see you for you and what's more than skin deep. Do guys generally act stupid around you?" Oh dear me, no. Don't actually tell her these things, OP. Your mentor is giving you terrible advice. (Woman here) That first line about lowering attraction reads like you ripped it directly off a Corey Wayne tutorial. And your mentor's suggested message? Way over the top. It's too much for a woman you barely know and have had one date with. Relax, dude. Your nerves are leading you to over-think and over-explain, and it will come across like you have no idea what you're doing. Make a few suggestions for the next date. See what she thinks. Come to an agreement on something you would both enjoy. Don't spring a surprise on someone who is clearly telling she doesn't like surprises, especially when you're still essentially strangers. You don't know her well enough to plan a surprise. 6
clia Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: Sadly that type of approach won't work with this girl. I was able to keep my frame and take the lead. Girls like this need some control on knowing what's going on. At least in the beginning until they get the feeling that you know them. e.g she specifically said this "you don’t know me well enough to plan a surprise. Indeed, it doesn’t give me a sense of calm to not know anything about it. I am sure I will have more fun and relax if I know what’s going on." I'm with her -- I used to hate it when new guys would try to "surprise" me. Ugh.... And it's not a "control" thing. Part of it is safety -- are you taking me hiking in the middle of nowhere or to an area of town I am not familiar with when I barely know you? Part of it is also that you don't know me and might pick something that I genuinely am not interested in doing, and that makes it awkward and uncomfortable, especially when with someone I don't know. Edited June 17, 2020 by clia 1
rjc149 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 5 hours ago, 808Traveler said: I asked her if it would have made a difference if I would have shown up more confident and she said yeah. I told her that I find her so beautiful that my heart literally skipped a beat when I first saw her. She said oh now I'm blushing. During the walk she had a song stuck in her head, I played it on my phone and I set the phone down and went to try and dance with her. **face palm** 5 hours ago, 808Traveler said: she said she had to get home before dark because she didn't have her bike light. She said that it wasn't an excuse and she actually couldn't find her light because she just moved to the city. This was absolutely, 100% an excuse. A pretty lame one, at that. 5 hours ago, 808Traveler said: My mentor said to say something like this: "I found you so attractive that it threw me off and I acted stupid. I'm sure it's happened to you before. I want to hang out and get to know you as a person. Like having a friend covered in tattoos. After awhile you don't notice the tats. And only see the person. You'll still be beautiful but I see you for you and what's more than skin deep. Do guys generally act stupid around you?" WTF? You're not paying this 'mentor' right? Apologize for your weak behavior with more weak behavior? That is awful advice. The bottom line here is that you were placing her on a pedestal because of her beauty and acting very weak and needy because of it. That's really unattractive to women. Good rule of thumb -- NEVER tell a woman she's beautiful on a first date. That is supplicating and approval-seeking. Tell a woman she's beautiful the next morning when she's lying in bed with you. Tell your girlfriend or wife she's beautiful when she gets home from the gym or gets out of the shower. Don't tell a dolled-up stranger she's beautiful. Another rule of thumb -- don't tell a woman you're not confident, or that she is shaking your confidence. You're telling her "I'm a weak man, and I'm just so glad that you'd actually be on a date with me." Really, really unattractive. 2 hours ago, 808Traveler said: I anticipated that she would be coming from a place of dominance given our last interaction and I was correct when she started setting the frame. e.g She has to be back by 5pm because she wants to disconnect and saying but what are we going to do on Sunday. I decided to take a more confident approach and sent her the following message. You are truly a powerhouse and it seems like it gives you calm to be in control. If your ok with surprises I’ll just give you just the necessary details. If not I’ll give you more information. I’m proposing ( in a non machismo way ) because you got so much going on right now let me take the lead on this one and you just focus on having fun and relaxing I promise to keep it safe and adventurous Wayyy too wordy, and over-use of emojis. A little cringey. Simple text: Her: Let's do Sunday, but I have to be back by 5PM You: Howbout next Saturday then? Test her engagement and interest level by asking for a "micro-commitment." This is how you can take the frame back, or, flush her out if she's just trying to string you along at this point. If she declines your reschedule, simply say "no worries, let me know when your schedule clears up. It would be nice to see you again." And WAIT for HER to text you. Don't follow up. Be ready, willing and able to walk away from this. 5 1
rjc149 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 808Traveler said: I'm looking at stuff I would like to do for Sunday. My thinking is that by having a few options of things I enjoy doing it's conveying who I am and also if she's not into it then it's not a good match. Bad way to go, to plan a "unique" date that showcases your personality and tests her compatibility by pushing her comfort level. You see that stupid sh-t on reality TV shows, and she puts up with it because she's getting paid. I think a lot of your perceptions of what dating should be comes from TV or the movies, with this BS of trying to be "fun" and "spontaneous" and "romantic." It's all very artificial. The reality is that meeting up at a regular ol' bar, making conversation, and actively listening to her (look up "active listening") while being playfully cocky and flirty is the best way to go. Set a date at a bar. It's getting nice out, suggest a place with outdoor seating and meet her in the evening, 6-8 PM, around dusk. You are not going to lower her attraction, or hurt your chances, by texting her on Sunday "hey, I'm sorry but something came up, I can't make it -- are you free next weekend?" That is a guarantee. Edited June 17, 2020 by rjc149 1 1
Hopeful30 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, rjc149 said: The bottom line here is that you were placing her on a pedestal because of her beauty and acting very weak and needy because of it. That's really unattractive to women. Good rule of thumb -- NEVER tell a woman she's beautiful on a first date. That is supplicating and approval-seeking. Tell a woman she's beautiful the next morning when she's lying in bed with you. Tell your girlfriend or wife she's beautiful when she gets home from the gym or gets out of the shower. Don't tell a dolled-up stranger she's beautiful. Another rule of thumb -- don't tell a woman you're not confident, or that she is shaking your confidence. You're telling her "I'm a weak man, and I'm just so glad that you'd actually be on a date with me." Really, really unattractive. I absolutely agree with this. When men tell me right away I'm beautiful, whether over chat or in person, I lose interest immediately and usually don't keep in touch anymore. For me personally, it has to do with restraint. If you have seen my other posts, my biggest complaints are that men make sexual advances too soon, want to label the relationship right away, etc.etc. This all has to do with showing restraint, which apparently is rare these days. When a man drools over how beautiful you are and let's it be known, this falls into the same category as he is unable to restrain himself, and it's a turn off. Men who are too easy is just as unattractive as a woman who is too easy. Edited June 17, 2020 by Hopeful30 1 1
Author 808Traveler Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, rjc149 said: **face palm** This was absolutely, 100% an excuse. A pretty lame one, at that. WTF? You're not paying this 'mentor' right? Apologize for your weak behavior with more weak behavior? That is awful advice. The bottom line here is that you were placing her on a pedestal because of her beauty and acting very weak and needy because of it. That's really unattractive to women. Good rule of thumb -- NEVER tell a woman she's beautiful on a first date. That is supplicating and approval-seeking. Tell a woman she's beautiful the next morning when she's lying in bed with you. Tell your girlfriend or wife she's beautiful when she gets home from the gym or gets out of the shower. Don't tell a dolled-up stranger she's beautiful. Another rule of thumb -- don't tell a woman you're not confident, or that she is shaking your confidence. You're telling her "I'm a weak man, and I'm just so glad that you'd actually be on a date with me." Really, really unattractive. Wayyy too wordy, and over-use of emojis. A little cringey. Simple text: Her: Let's do Sunday, but I have to be back by 5PM You: Howbout next Saturday then? Test her engagement and interest level by asking for a "micro-commitment." This is how you can take the frame back, or, flush her out if she's just trying to string you along at this point. If she declines your reschedule, simply say "no worries, let me know when your schedule clears up. It would be nice to see you again." And WAIT for HER to text you. Don't follow up. Be ready, willing and able to walk away from this. RJC, thanks. Ok I told her I would have Sundays details to her tomorrow. I want to make the right steps moving forward. After some playful banter this is where I'm at... Her: Alright, i'm now managing about 7 things and 3 people at the same time, on teams, here and whatsapp, and I noticed my brain is getting overloaded. I got a plumber inside as well who needs my attention, gotta hit the supermarket in a bit, a friend is coming at 530 and i need to get this all done and out before that. I'll talk to you a bit later today, okay? Me:Yeah, hit me up when ever. Hopefully you don’t get to overloaded Her: Talk soon! In your opinion what would be the best course of action or approach between here and Sunday? On a side note I have a D2 scheduled on Saturday with with someone else. I was thinking, get busy. Only looking at my WhatsApp account twice a day, at 12:00 pm and at 9:30 pm, because that's when I will have breaks in my work day.
Author 808Traveler Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, rjc149 said: Bad way to go, to plan a "unique" date that showcases your personality and tests her compatibility by pushing her comfort level. You see that stupid sh-t on reality TV shows, and she puts up with it because she's getting paid. I think a lot of your perceptions of what dating should be comes from TV or the movies, with this BS of trying to be "fun" and "spontaneous" and "romantic." It's all very artificial. The reality is that meeting up at a regular ol' bar, making conversation, and actively listening to her (look up "active listening") while being playfully cocky and flirty is the best way to go. Set a date at a bar. It's getting nice out, suggest a place with outdoor seating and meet her in the evening, 6-8 PM, around dusk. You are not going to lower her attraction, or hurt your chances, by texting her on Sunday "hey, I'm sorry but something came up, I can't make it -- are you free next weekend?" That is a guarantee. Every time I have a second date with a girl it's to do something adventurous or active outdoors, during the day. I have a belief that a couple that plays together stays together and if we don't play well it won't workout. This has worked for me so far and I've been doing it now for the last 5 years. 1
ChatroomHero Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: RJC, thanks. Ok I told her I would have Sundays details to her tomorrow. I want to make the right steps moving forward. After some playful banter this is where I'm at... Her: Alright, i'm now managing about 7 things and 3 people at the same time, on teams, here and whatsapp, and I noticed my brain is getting overloaded. I got a plumber inside as well who needs my attention, gotta hit the supermarket in a bit, a friend is coming at 530 and i need to get this all done and out before that. I'll talk to you a bit later today, okay? Me:Yeah, hit me up when ever. Hopefully you don’t get to overloaded Her: Talk soon! In your opinion what would be the best course of action or approach between here and Sunday? On a side note I have a D2 scheduled on Saturday with with someone else. I was thinking, get busy. Only looking at my WhatsApp account twice a day, at 12:00 pm and at 9:30 pm, because that's when I will have breaks in my work day. Kind of sounds like a pre-emptive, "it's only Wednesday but man look at all the stuff I have, I'll probably be busy through Sunday or at least too mentally drained to go out!" Here's the thing- Right now, she has no plans. Right now she could agree to go out Sunday at XX:XX PM. Right now she could tell you to text her the details for Sunday so she knows. Frankly the plumber is working and probably needs very little of her attention until he is done and ready to leave. If she doesn't commit to a time for Sunday when (if) you talk with her tonight, she is doing a slow fade. If she says anything like, "Let's wait and see how we feel" or "Call me Saturday and we can figure out Sunday"...she is backing out. As far as surprising her, you can take control, have ideas of places to go and things to do without running it by her. You take control that way. What she was telling you is you don't know her enough to surprise her with horseback riding or sky diving or something. But you should know enough about her or be able to ask what food she likes or if you were going to a petting zoo, does she like animals, etc. I think you are afraid to take control and need to run everything past her for fear of disappointing the most beautiful woman you have ever laid eyes on! But if you are coordinating, you are paying, you are planning, a little spontaneity can go a long way to show that you have some confidence and can handle a simple situation like planning a fun date without checking with her first.
rjc149 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: Her: Alright, i'm now managing about 7 things and 3 people at the same time, on teams, here and whatsapp, and I noticed my brain is getting overloaded. I got a plumber inside as well who needs my attention, gotta hit the supermarket in a bit, a friend is coming at 530 and i need to get this all done and out before that. I'll talk to you a bit later today, okay? Whoa! She's sounds pretty exasperated and frustrated with you. Which means you are being WAY too needy and clingy, you are WAY more into this than she is. This is her pushing you away and telling you "back off dude, okay? I'll let you know." Your best course of action is to wait to hear from her. There's a good likelihood she isn't down for Sunday. Now, to boot, you want her to come along on some elaborate, intense daytime activity date to see how compatible she is with you. 20 minutes ago, 808Traveler said: I have a belief that a couple that plays together stays together and if we don't play well it won't workout. Yeah but you're not a couple. See what you're doing here? You're already trying to make this a relationship, trying to make her yours. This girl is a stranger. You've been on one date with her. You didn't even hook up with her. You did not succeed in attracting her and seducing her. Now you're 'putting her to the test' on the 2nd date, to test her comfort level with you and to see if you can tie her down. Not the best way to go, IMO. Very low-value and needy. If you don't hear from her by Sunday, she's out. Don't follow up, don't remind her, don't send "closure texts" that go like "I guess you weren't interested in me, but if you ever are, let me know, you're so wonderful, I really wanna get to know you" etc. Just end it. Don't contact her again. Focus on making your other Saturday date fun and go with that. If you do hear from her, my advice, take it or leave it, is to reschedule to next weekend, and plan something simple and comfortable where you can converse, flirt, and build rapport and attraction. And don't make it a "wild surprise." Just suggest a nice bar or lounge, and meet her there in the evening. 3 1
ShyViolet Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 7 hours ago, 808Traveler said: I asked her if it would have made a difference if I would have shown up more confident and she said yeah. Me: I’m a little embarrassed to be honest. I wasn’t as confident as usual and for some reason my insecurities completely through me off my game today. I’m sure you picked up on it from the start. For the love of god, stop saying stuff to her like this. It's weird, it's unnecessary, it's awkward and it's just making the situation worse and more uncomfortable. It's ok for you to feel nervous and to acknowledge that. That's something that you are just going to have to work on. But the way you keep over-analyzing it, and talking to her about it, and apologizing for it, is just not normal behavior. Just power through your nervousness and make normal conversation with her. 6
Fresh_Start Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 I am amazed that this girl is even still talking to you at this point unless it's out of pity. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but you have killed any attraction or romantic chemistry she might have felt towards you. Unless she deals with the same level of insecurity you do, which is pretty doubtful since yours is off the Richter scale, or you're GQ model levels of good looking so that she's temporarily giving what she perceives to be a really hot guy a free pass then you have blown this like a harmonica. Your "mentor" needs to be shown the door and you need to spend some time working on overcoming your insecurities and building some semblance of self-confidence before you start dating or you'll just be setting yourself up for failure. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's what you need to hear. Good luck. 10
Ellener Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 @808Traveler Had we but world enough and time...but youth is wasted on the young as they say. A man who can express himself, dance in public, is trying to stay original but genuine...honey the only thing you're doing wrong is over-thinking what anyone else thinks about you. You're wonderful!
Ellener Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, 808Traveler said: Her: Alright, i'm now managing about 7 things and 3 people at the same time, on teams, here and whatsapp, and I noticed my brain is getting overloaded. I got a plumber inside as well who needs my attention, gotta hit the supermarket in a bit, a friend is coming at 530 and i need to get this all done and out before that. I'll talk to you a bit later today, okay? it is what it is, again, don't over-think it. I'd say she sees your potential and is wondering how you'd fit with the busy life of a woman who sees potential in others... Get busy doing your own happy occupations.
Ellener Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, rjc149 said: don't send "closure texts" I agree in a way, but how does that fit with the recent concept of 'ghosting'? and the way people get pissed about that?
d0nnivain Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) I say this with every hope that you get the girl: Just STOP. Leave her alone. She had a plumber. She has to go shopping. She's doing something at 530. You go radio silent . . .do not message her first. Sit on your hands if you have to. If she gets in touch with you, great. You can respond briefly but do not initiate. Never again mention all the flubs you have made to date. Even if you are nervous, never let her know that again, ever. Fake it 'til you make it. Friday morning before lunch you send something like: Hope you got your plumbing situation under control & that your week calmed down a bit. I'm looking forward to our date Sunday. I'll pick you up (or meet you) at [time]. I've planned for us to [insert activity]. Please confirm that works for you. Do not give her choices about what you are doing. Women like planners. Especially since you already botched this by word vomiting all of your insecurities all over her, you need to take a deep breath, square your shoulders & stand up straight or you will sabotage this miracle that she is still talking to you. Seriously, at this point she thinks you are a whiney insecure mess. Even if you are, you can't ever share that with a new person you are dating. It's OK to be imperfect. It's bad to share every deep dark secret fear as you just get to know someone. You have to project confidence & desirability. Plan the date. Show up. Say hello. Speak confidently to her. I actually thought the move with playing the song for her & offering to dance was quite ballsy in a good confident way. I don't know how you went from a guy who can pull that off to the drivel that has been coming out of your mouth since. Edited June 17, 2020 by d0nnivain 4
rjc149 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ellener said: I agree in a way, but how does that fit with the recent concept of 'ghosting'? and the way people get pissed about that? Ghosting someone to end a courtship isn't the same as ghosting someone to sever an intimate relationship. The butthurt over ghosting is that a lot of people feel their courtship is an intimate relationship. They feel their own emotional investment into a stranger means they are 'owed' something from them. Their own lack of emotional self-control is what got them too invested in the first place, and it's the same lack of self-control that compels them to send angry, hurt, needy follow-up texts. And a lot of women ghost to avoid the messy confrontation that may come from rejecting a needy, insecure, desperate guy, who then needs to apologize, or explain the situation, or wants a "reason" or wants "closure" or just "wants to say one more thing" with a 600-word text message etc. 1 1
Ellener Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, rjc149 said: avoid the messy confrontation that may come from rejecting Got it.
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