Is this as wrong as it feels?

[ExpatInItaly]

14 hours ago, MsJayne said:

 However, she's a grown woman now, not a little girl, and her bio father has been on the scene for the past 7 years after being absent for 25 years, and it's not all about her. My partner has a right to move on with his life, 

This is so not your call, OP. Despite the fact that she is an adult and her birth father is in her life, the relationship she maintains with her former step-dad is not for you to encourage "fading" from. I don't blame him for being upset with you for that. Moving on with his life doesn't necessarily mean he needs to fade out of hers. You might be right that she uses him, but that's up to him to accept or refuse. What happens in their relationship is not on your terms. You're evidently very jealous of her, but one might point out it's not all about you, either. Stay in your lane there. You're someone new in his life. His former step-daughter is not. You're not likely to be the last woman standing here, so to speak. 

Having said that, it seems quite clear he is not over his ex-wife. Might this step-daughter trigger him? Possibly. Is getting him to fade away from her the solution? No. That only papers over the real problem, and it's paper that is already catching fire. The solution is for this man to come to terms with the divorce, and that might mean you need to walk away from him. 

Your disdain and contempt for his step-daughter is sorely misguided. 

[Weezy1973]

Relationships are tough and part of that is the mindset:

”You should be the way I want you to be instead of the way you are.”

or

”You should do the things I want you to do instead of what you want to do.”

This way of thinking happens a lot in relationships, but when you look at it objectively, you see how ridiculous an ask it is.

He is the way he is and will do the things he wants to do, like having dinner with his step daughter. Whether that’s a dealbreaker to you or not is up to you.

[Versacehottie]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Relationships are tough and part of that is the mindset:

”You should be the way I want you to be instead of the way you are.”

or

”You should do the things I want you to do instead of what you want to do.”

This way of thinking happens a lot in relationships, but when you look at it objectively, you see how ridiculous an ask it is.

He is the way he is and will do the things he wants to do, like having dinner with his step daughter. Whether that’s a dealbreaker to you or not is up to you.

This theme could solve so many of the problems that are presented here on the site.  

[Watercolors]

7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Having said that, it seems quite clear he is not over his ex-wife. Might this step-daughter trigger him? Possibly. Is getting him to fade away from her the solution? No. That only papers over the real problem, and it's paper that is already catching fire. The solution is for this man to come to terms with the divorce, and that might mean you need to walk away from him. 

Your disdain and contempt for his step-daughter is sorely misguided. 

Agree with Expat. I think you need to step back and reflect on what your priorities are with this 7 month relationship. If your boyfriend is still emotionally enmeshed with his ex-wife, there's no tantrum loud enough to dislodge him from his ex-wife. He has to do that himself. And clearly, he hasn't done the emotional work that it takes to do that. 

If you want to be a part of your boyfriend's life, you need to be more supportive and less controlling. But if his enmeshment with his ex-wife and step-daughter just infuriates you, then you are early enough into this relationship where you should walk away now, and let your boyfriend go, so that he can heal on his own timeline, not yours. It's really unfair to expect him to heal "now" so that he's emotionally available to you 100%. He's not. That's clear from his behavior. He feels torn between you and his former family responsibilities and its wrong for you to disparage his previous role that you were not a part of. 

I think you need to walk away. This isn't going to continue to get any better for you, because he can't be there for you 100% in the way that you want and expect him to be. 

[Miss Spider]

I disagree with the people who are saying that he still has feelings for his ex wife. Not necessarily. I think that might be something that people tell themselves to feel better. “he dislikes me, so he must still have feelings for me. “ not really . That would mean almost all my exes if not all are actually passionately feeling me, lol To me the opposite  of love is actually hate. And the opposite of hate is love on the scale . “Indifference” is the absence of emotion..It’s neutral on the scale,. I have had very strong feelings of dislike for exes who I broke up with and I did not like at all. I can only imagine if I went through an ugly divorce with the person where they dragged it out and took my stuff/ money 
 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said:

I disagree with the people who are saying that he still has feelings for his ex wife. Not necessarily. I think that might be something that people tell themselves to feel better. “he dislikes me, so he must still have feelings for me. “ not at all. The opposite of love is actually hate. And the opposite of hate is love. “Indifference” is the app since of any emotions or opinion regarding the person. Which is kind of impossible in this case. II have had very strong feelings of dislike for exes who I broke up with and I did not like at all. I can only imagine if I went through an ugly divorce with the person where they dragged it out and twisted things and took my money. I would not be a happy camper 
 

The OP definitely isn't describing indifference. She claims he brings up the ex three times a week and rants to this day about how she took his money.

[Miss Spider]

Yea he hates her. Depending  on how much the batch took, I can completely empathize

Edited June 13, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Miss Spider]

I had an ex who got mad at me for wanting out of the relationship, so he stole my puppy. Took a long time to not tell ppl who stood still long enough  about the douche who stole my dog. The only feelings I had were incandescent hate . He made my skin crawl. But Letting go of that anger was an ordeal and we were only together a handful months 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[CaliforniaGirl]

25 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Yea he hates her. Depending  on how much the batch took, I can completely empathize

Me too. But that's something he needs to work out and none of it is the stepdaughter's fault.

[schlumpy]

I have to agree with you that when someone brings up their EX constantly and even hangs on to contact with the stepdaughter that there is more going on emotionally then you are being told. He's conflicted and still has unresolved emotional issues with his Ex. It could be he loves her but also hates her. Has he ever spoken of getting revenge? If he has then his contact with the stepdaughter would make sense from an intel point of view.

The main point here is that instead of bringing happiness into your life he is serving up a plate of conflict. You have done well to hang on this long.

I think you should put a stop to it. Lay out some reasonable boundaries that you can live with and see if he will agree. If he does not, then break it off.

Your relationship with him sounds like you are a rebound.

[Ruby Slippers]

10 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I disagree with the people who are saying that he still has feelings for his ex wife. Not necessarily. I think that might be something that people tell themselves to feel better. “he dislikes me, so he must still have feelings for me. “ not really . That would mean almost all my exes if not all are actually passionately feeling me, lol 

It doesn't mean he wants her back. It DOES mean that her "ghost" is present in the relationship and he will punish any new woman for her mistakes.

We all sometimes feel pain and anger and negative emotions after relationships end. But holding onto that negative emotion is like holding onto a hot skillet - you're only hurting yourself, letting the injuries persist. You have to drop the pain, heal from the injuries, and move on.

By the way, I think a lot of people fail to do this. A lot of people aren't emotionally mature enough to understand why it's so important to process negative emotions, release them, and move on.

There are TONS of jaded men on dating sites (women as well, I'm sure) who will complain about their exes right off the bat. These people are to be avoided, as they're nowhere near ready to open their heart and life to someone new.

I'm just truly figuring this out at age 43. I felt very uneasy when my recent ex started talking in an emotionally charged, negative way fairly early on about his ex-wife and their divorce. My intuition was telling me that was a problem and I should back off. It was my mistake that I didn't, but I certainly learned my lesson. If I had it to do over again, I'd tell him I enjoyed our dates, but it's clear he hasn't healed from the divorce and isn't ready to fully embrace someone new, then stop seeing him. The alternative is living in this other woman's shadow, and nobody puts baby in the corner  

Edited June 13, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[smackie9]

I always had a rule.....never date a man that still carries bitterness for their ex and talks very negatively about them. To me that’s a big red flag. Most of the time it’s not the ex that had the issues. I agree the if a man can own his mistakes, learn from them and move on to be a better person earns my respect. This guy’s integrity comes into question with his behaviour. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 hours ago, schlumpy said:

I have to agree with you that when someone brings up their EX constantly and even hangs on to contact with the stepdaughter that there is more going on emotionally then you are being told. He's conflicted and still has unresolved emotional issues with his Ex. It could be he loves her but also hates her. Has he ever spoken of getting revenge? If he has then his contact with the stepdaughter would make sense from an intel point of view.

The main point here is that instead of bringing happiness into your life he is serving up a plate of conflict. You have done well to hang on this long.

I think you should put a stop to it. Lay out some reasonable boundaries that you can live with and see if he will agree. If he does not, then break it off.

Your relationship with him sounds like you are a rebound.

Just a point about the stepdaughter. People seem to feel this man is using the stepdaughter to either rankle at or stay close to the ex. But the daughter is now an adult. Surely she'd guess if that were the case.

Another point: once before this man was apparently badgered at out of jealousy to not be there enough for his bio children. Apparently he more recently is trying to repair that. Now another jealous SO has come along to try to get him to neglect a relationship with a child, his stepchild this time. What if he's finally just sick of the pain of not being "allowed" to have relationships with his children else there's he'll to pay, so he's putting his foot down? If so, good for him...late, but better than never.

He is probably complicit in this, he's choosing apparently jealous types for his own reasons, but at least he's trying to fix the whole parenting thing. His anger at the ex is a separate issue and honestly he will have to work that out for himself too...and he is already pushing back at the OP. We don't know how those conversations are going down and I'd still like the context of his saying she accused him of being sexually attracted to his stepdaughter. Honestly I'm not sure there's any coming back from an accusation like that but we will need to wait for the OP to come back and clarify things.

[schlumpy]

I accept your points. It could be playing out along those lines. I only have the information that is in the post and to my mind his obsession with his Ex is the deciding factor. 

He could help his case by inviting the stepdaughter to dinner with his SO. After all she is an adult and it would be a vote of confidence in his SO.

As it is he seems to want to keep them separate.

Again your viewpoint is certainly as valid as mine. It's up to  he OP to pick and choose.

 

[Ruby Slippers]

37 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Most of the time it’s not the ex that had the issues.

Exactly. In retrospect it's easy to imagine it's very possible the ex-wife was so vindictive as a response to years of mistreatment. To at least some extent, the bitter ending is a reflection on him. The person he should be evaluating for mistakes is himself. That he isn't doing that shows you he lacks accountability and personal responsibility. 

In other words, in his next relationship, he'll likely be painting you as the bad guy and himself as the victim. 

[BaileyB]

You chose to date a man who was twice divorced. You knew going in that his last marriage was not an amiable split, and probably that he had a lot of anger and hostility toward his ex wife. 

This guy has quite a track record. His life is complicated and you are trying to make it less complicated... but that’s not your role. It’s his responsibility to deal with the anger and resentment he feels toward his ex wife. Just as his relationships with his children/stepchildren are also his to manage. I personally don’t think that ending his relationship with his step daughter will affect the unresolved feelings he has toward her mother. To me, that’s just a sad and rather cruel thing to do to the stepdaughter and her children if they have good healthy relationships. 

There is a lot of drama here, but none of it is your drama exactly. Sure, it affects you indirectly but you knew this when you got together with a man who has been twice married and has broken relationships with his children. I’m not sure why you have suddenly decided to let it ruin what you have otherwise described as a strong relationship. 

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

I always had a rule.....never date a man that still carries bitterness for their ex and talks very negatively about them. To me that’s a big red flag. Most of the time it’s not the ex that had the issues. 

That's often true - but what about when the person really did something horrible.

We've had multiple posts on here from married men who's wives took up with meth dealers. One started bringing the kid along IIRC. Is he supposed to have positive things to say about that?

I think what you're really getting at is how emotionally triggering whatever the negative issues are and how much do they impact behavior and/or get projected onto you, the new SO. While I totally agree it's important to show emotional maturity, not every story ends in a way that's particularly tolerable or was really even partially "the fault" of the Ex and requires they take blame for "their role" in the actions that were taken. Sometimes other people screw you over, plain and simple (and not your fault).

I think there's room for being emotional stable and having processed a very negative situation without having to accept some of the blame or being forced to put a positive spin on it. Maybe you're saying that too, in which case I apologize for belaboring the point.

Edited June 13, 2020 by mark clemson

[elaine567]

18 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

He could help his case by inviting the stepdaughter to dinner with his SO. After all she is an adult and it would be a vote of confidence in his SO.

Yes, he is excluding the OP and she feels left out.
She is a sounding board for his constant complaints about his ex and now she has to compete for his attention with a woman (stepdaughter) who he sees as "just a friend" (strange words to use for a step child.)
He then accuses the OP of thinking he is attracted to her.
My guess he likely is, and that is why the OP is so triggered.

[BaileyB]

29 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Another point: once before this man was apparently badgered at out of jealousy to not be there enough for his bio children. Apparently he more recently is trying to repair that. Now another jealous SO has come along to try to get him to neglect a relationship with a child, his stepchild this time. What if he's finally just sick of the pain of not being "allowed" to have relationships with his children else there's he'll to pay, so he's putting his foot down? If so, good for him...late, but better than never.

To a certain extent, it does seem like history is apparently repeating itself. Two women who believe it is their place to tell this man whether he can or can not have a relationship with his “children.” I say “children” because even though this woman may not be his biological daughter,  does not mean that he has not grown to love her like a daughter and her children like grandchildren.

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

That's often true - but what about when the person really did something horrible.

We've had multiple posts on here from married men who's wives took up with meth dealers. One started bringing the kid along IIRC. Is he supposed to have positive things to say about that?

I think what you're really getting at is how emotionally triggering whatever the negative issues are and how much do they impact behavior and/or get projected onto you, the new SO. While I totally agree it's important to show emotional maturity, not every story ends in a way that's particularly tolerable or was "the fault" of the Ex and requires they take blame for "their role" in the actions that were taken. Sometimes other people screw you over, plain and simple (and not your fault).

I think there's room for being emotional stable and having processed a very negative situation without having to accept some of the blame or being forced to put a positive spin on ie. Maybe you're saying that too, in which case I apologize for belaboring the point.

It's certainly possible that the ex was horrible, but according to the OP, the boyfriend brings up his ex 3 times per week, for the past 7 months. My ex-husband was an alcoholic (hid it from me until we were married), begged to move out of state so we could build "his longtime dream" house, insisted directly to my face that there was a stipulation written into his divorce papers that he could move out of state with his son (custody) and ended up losing out house, MY money saved for 20 years, $30,000 in legal bills when of course the ex joyfully came after us, and more, much more than that. Destroyed me, bankruptcy on my record for 7 years, ripped me and my son apart. I STILL didn't bring him up 3 times a week to boyfriends. If it was once in 6 months it was a lot, and probably just connected to some other random memory.

The guy in this thread seems like he has a lot to process but the OP's methods - asking him to "fade" his relationship with his stepdaughter, etc. are obviously not working. If she doesn't want to step back and hang in until he's ready to do that then she doesn't have a lot of options. She apparently got far enough down to actually accusing this man of wanting to have sex with his stepdaughter. Things are not looking good.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

I always had a rule.....never date a man that still carries bitterness for their ex and talks very negatively about them. To me that’s a big red flag. I agree the if a man can own his mistakes, learn from them and move on to be a better person earns my respect. This guy’s integrity comes into question with his behaviour. 

Or, he just hasn’t taken the time/done the work to let go after the divorce. 

My boyfriend admits that he had a lot of anger towards his ex wife after the divorce. He lost a lot of money and basically paid her rent for years after with the spousal support and child support he owed her. He was very bitter - it’s a long story but he had good reason to be angry and bitter with her. He worked hard to get to a place of indifference, such that he was able to move on and take the risk with another serious relationship. I’m super proud of him because he doesn’t speak badly of her - to me, or in front of their son. And, she is a difficult person to deal with... but he has found his peace. It was definitely something I considered when we met - was he still angry with her, was he respectful of her when he spoke, did he treat her fairly in the divorce - and he did. If he was still angry and bitter, if he had broken relationship with his children - those would have been huge warning signs to me and I don’t think we would be in a relationship. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[Ruby Slippers]

17 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

That's often true - but what about when the person really did something horrible.

We've had multiple posts on here from married men who's wives took up with meth dealers. One started bringing the kid along IIRC. Is he supposed to have positive things to say about that?

It may take a long time to get over this kind of trauma. Once you do, you should be able to talk about it in terms of the facts, without it bringing up strong emotions. Until you can do that, you haven't healed and it's going to be an issue. Your romantic partner is not and should not be your therapist.

My dad was abusive to all his kids. One of my older sisters still has spells when she gets drunk and cries about how he treated her. I never get emotional about it anymore, because I've dealt with the trauma, let it go, and done everything I can to repair the relationship. When I talk about my dad's past abuse now, sure it's not a pleasant topic, but I can convey the information factually, without getting into an emotionally agitated state.

Same with old relationships. I can communicate what went wrong, his side of it and mine, in a matter-of-fact way. That's a clear sign I've healed and moved on, that I won't be punishing another man for the mistakes of some guy from the past.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Yes, he is excluding the OP and she feels left out.
She is a sounding board for his constant complaints about his ex and now she has to compete for his attention with a woman (stepdaughter) who he sees as "just a friend" (strange words to use for a step child.)
He then accuses the OP of thinking he is attracted to her.
My guess he likely is, and that is why the OP is so triggered.

My feeling was he switched to "just a friend" to get the OP off his back, but who knows. It sounds like this guy has a history of trying to do or.say what the girlfriend wants, sacrificing other relationships this way, then resenting it.

I don't know who would not flip out after being accused of wanting to screw a person he raised. If it were me I'd actually have been gone at that point. I'm sorry but that's low.

But this guy sounds weak and used to letting women push him around.

Honestly if the OP thinks he wants to do his.own stepdaughter (ughhhh! I'm sorry, but...Jesus) then what is SHE still doing with him? 

There's not a lot of "healthy" going on here no matter how you slice it.

[Ruby Slippers]

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

She is a sounding board for his constant complaints about his ex and now she has to compete for his attention with a woman (stepdaughter) who he sees as "just a friend" (strange words to use for a step child.)
He then accuses the OP of thinking he is attracted to her.
My guess he likely is, and that is why the OP is so triggered.

Woah, good catch. I totally missed that part of the story (it's a long story).

I agree it's extremely concerning and weird that he refers to his ex-stepdaughter as "just a friend." That tells me she's almost certainly not, at least he would prefer there be more between them.

Woman's intuition is powerful. If you're getting that sneaking suspicion that his feelings toward her go beyond familial, I'm guessing you're probably right. 

There are so many reasons to pull back from this guy. It sounds like a complete mess.

[deepthinking]

she is in her early twenties, which is an age when you want young things, clubs, not dinners.  I hope we find out what they talk about. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by deepthinking
new thoughts