Is this as wrong as it feels?

[MsJayne]

OK everyone…..input please.  I have been seeing my current guy for 7 months, and I adore him, and I know he adores me back.  I’m not ‘insecure’ in the relationship. Up to this point, the only thing we’ve ever bickered about is backgammon. However, we had our first disagreement yesterday, and it’s left me a bit confused.  He’s 5 years divorced from his second wife, and it was a volatile marriage full of jealousy, which degenerated into fighting and a lot of nastiness, and the divorce was as ugly as they get.

 He claims she took him for a huge amount of money when they divorced, and he still has a lot of anger over that. I think I’ve been very understanding, but he’s brought it up so often that I have three times recently asked him to stop talking about it. I’d heard more than enough when he told me he stopped seeing his biological kids because she was so jealous of his first wife that every time he saw his kids there was a massive fight.  He is now trying to rebuild his relationships with his bio kids, and I’m fully supportive.  When we first met he told me that he still had a relationship with his step-daughter from the second marriage, and he has more than once referred to her children as his grandchildren. 

At first I was OK with this,  but this far down the track I’ve come to the belief that keeping the ‘ex-stepdaughter’ in his life is actually a constant reminder of the relationship with her mother, and I feel this is part of the reason why he’s not properly moving on and keeps bringing up his ex, (like two or three times a week!).  We’d talked about this and he agreed that maybe it was time to let go and fade the relationship, especially since the stepdaughter has reconciled with her bio father in recent years. On Tuesday night he brought up the ex yet again, and after 7 months of it I finally cracked the s--ts.

Then on Wednesday night he rings me and during the conversation slips in that he’s going for dinner with the ex step-daughter the following week. So I got angry again and let him know that I felt it had reached the point where he was undermining our relationship by constantly bringing up the ex, and reminded him that he’d acknowledged it was time to let go of the past, wind down the relationship with the ex step-daughter, etc.  So, he tells me he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me so he’ll fix it, and he cancels the dinner.

But then later he accuses me of telling him who he can associate with, denies that he’s spoken about his ex step as if he’s still her stepfather and says “she’s only a friend”, (changes the whole context of their relationship in four words).  Then he accuses me of talking about my exes all the time, and I do mention them occasionally, but I really don’t think I speak of them frequently, and I certainly don’t repeat ad nauseam the same stories about how badly they treated me.

The thing is, if he’d had an amicable split with his second wife, I wouldn’t have a problem with him maintaining a relationship with her daughter because there wouldn’t be the anger there, and I would probably even go meet her, etc. But because there’s so much hostility about her mother, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for him to still be hovering on the periphery of her life by maintaining contact with her daughter.

And now, because I’ve spoken up, I feel it’s damaged our relationship because he accused me of telling him who he can associate with, and then took it further and accused me of suggesting he was attracted to the stepdaughter, and of trying to get back together with his ex. I didn’t tell him he couldn’t associate with her, nor did I tell him he must cancel the dinner, I just let him know I felt it was undermining our relationship because I see it as clinging on to the past and pushing his anger buttons. I also suspect from his exes point of view it must be a real thorn in her side that her daughter keeps up contact with this ex-husband who she had such a nasty break from.

I feel I’ve been cast in the role of jealous control freak and I feel more resentful of that than I do about him crapping on about his ex-wife all the time.

Should I just let this go or is it as damaging as it feels? 

Edited June 13, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[CaliforniaGirl]

I say this as the twice-dumped stepdaughter: it's a REAL relationship. You don't "fade" it. I almost cried at your description of how this man did NOT roller coaster dad-then-dump this girl and her children, yes, his grandchildren. I can not begin to describe the permanent damage of a parent figure dumping the child or how it screws with her trust and sense of permanence. People become just temporary "things." You never really trust anyone again, if your own parent/parent figure one day decides he is all done with you since he's no longer sleeping with your mother, so he dumps you, oh well...I mean what does he need you for anymore?

Please, leave their relationship alone. I hope this man has the stones not to let a girlfriend sever his very real relationship with the person he stepparented and whose children call him Grandpa. 

Would you want to be this girl?

Edited June 12, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[MsJayne]

2 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I say this as the twice-dumped stepdaughter: it's a REAL relationship. You don't "fade" it. I almost cried at your description of how this man did NOT roller coaster dad-then-dump this girl and her children, yes, his grandchildren. I can not begin to describe the permanent damage of a parent figure dumping the child or how it screws with her trust and sense of permanence. People become just temporary "things." You never really trust anyone again, if your own parent/parent figure one day decides he is all done with you since he's no longer sleeping with your mother, so he dumps you, oh well...I mean what does he need you for anymore?

Please, leave their relationship alone. I hope this man has the stones not to let a girlfriend sever his very real relationship with the person he stepparented and whose children call him Grandpa. 

Would you want to be this girl?

Is that all you got out of that? Yourself? He's never dumped her, and on the contrary, I have earlier told him I think he has a responsibility to stay in her life for as long as she wants him to.  He's always been there for her if she needs him. However, she's a grown woman now, not a little girl, and her bio father has been on the scene for the past 7 years after being absent for 25 years, and it's not all about her. My partner has a right to move on with his life, he has a right to be allowed to move past the anger he feels towards her mother, and his first responsibility is to his bio kids. And her kids don't call him Grandpa, they never have, they were born after he divorced their grandmother.  He doesn't get an invite for birthdays or Christmases, he gets an invite when she needs her car fixed or needs to borrow money. 

[Versacehottie]

37 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

.

The thing is, if he’d had an amicable split with his second wife, I wouldn’t have a problem with him maintaining a relationship with her daughter because there wouldn’t be the anger there, and I would probably even go meet her, etc. But because there’s so much hostility about her mother, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for him to still be hovering on the periphery of her life by maintaining contact with her daughter. And now, because I’ve spoken up, I feel it’s damaged our relationship because he accused me of telling him who he can associate with, and then took it further and accused me of suggesting he was attracted to the stepdaughter, and of trying to get back together with his ex. I didn’t tell him he couldn’t associate with her, nor did I tell him he must cancel the dinner, I just let him know I felt it was undermining our relationship because I see it as clinging on to the past and pushing his anger buttons. I also suspect from his exes point of view it must be a real thorn in her side that her daughter keeps up contact with this ex-husband who she had such a nasty break from. I feel I’ve been cast in the role of jealous control freak and I feel more resentful of that than I do about him crapping on about his ex-wife all the time.

Should I just let this go or is it as damaging as it feels? 

Ohhh, I was just going to guess that consciously or unconsciously the bolded above is a big part of the reason he maintains this relationship.  He has resentment about the marriage, the ex-wife and the money he lost but he has one big thing going on in his favor that gets under her skin (i would imagine)--that he still has access and some level of approval from one of her kids.  He knows that must bother the ex and he gets to look noble and feel good about himself at the same time.

I wouldn't let it go.  But maybe leave it alone for a while and see what he does.  If you intended for him to fix it and you actually believe what you have is good with him and you love him, you have to give him a chance to make good on what he told you he would do. 

I would be cautious though.  His track record isn't good, nor is the way he is handling this and holding onto resentment.  Don't invest a ton more. Good luck

[CaliforniaGirl]

10 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

Is that all you got out of that? Yourself? He's never dumped her, and on the contrary, I have earlier told him I think he has a responsibility to stay in her life for as long as she wants him to.  He's always been there for her if she needs him. However, she's a grown woman now, not a little girl, and her bio father has been on the scene for the past 7 years after being absent for 25 years, and it's not all about her. My partner has a right to move on with his life, he has a right to be allowed to move past the anger he feels towards her mother, and his first responsibility is to his bio kids. And her kids don't call him Grandpa, they never have, they were born after he divorced their grandmother.  He doesn't get an invite for birthdays or Christmases, he gets an invite when she needs her car fixed or needs to borrow money. 

You are very jealous, and she has been in his life much longer than you have. You don’t get to judge. You are finding as many reasons as you can to split these two. I’ll just tell you, that could backfire.

As for her being an adult, is your father living? Would you be okay with him fading your relationship in the half-year girlfriend’s say-so? I didn’t want to go there, I was hoping you’d consider advice from someone who has been in this position. Instead now you’re mad at me, too.

Your jealousy and interference may create an ultimatum. And you might not like the outcome. Step aside. This is dangerous ground.

[CaliforniaGirl]

11 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

Ohhh, I was just going to guess that consciously or unconsciously the bolded above is a big part of the reason he maintains this relationship.  He has resentment about the marriage, the ex-wife and the money he lost but he has one big thing going on in his favor that gets under her skin (i would imagine)--that he still has access and some level of approval from one of her kids.  He knows that must bother the ex and he gets to look noble and feel good about himself at the same time.

I wouldn't let it go.  But maybe leave it alone for a while and see what he does.  If you intended for him to fix it and you actually believe what you have is good with him and you love him, you have to give him a chance to make good on what he told you he would do. 

I would be cautious though.  His track record isn't good, nor is the way he is handling this and holding onto resentment.  Don't invest a ton more. Good luck

What if he just loves his stepdaughter he helped raise?

It happens.

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, MsJayne said:

Should I just let this go or is it as damaging as it feels? 

It was wrong for him to keep bringing up his ex-wife and their acrimonous relationship. You were right to speak up about THAT. But, beyond bringing it up, you should have started considering it as evidence that he might not yet be ready for a relationship with you. 

I think you crossed a line regarding his relationship with his stepdaughter. No, you don't get to express the wish that he should "fade" the relationship with her. He is a parent figure to her; in some ways, he is like an adoptive parent. Her children are pretty much his grandchildren. You may think she only seeks him out when she wants something and you may think he's primarily interacting with her to piss his ex-wife off. And you know what? There may even be truth to that perception. But even if you are right, it is not your place to minimize his relationship with his stepdaughter and to attempt to regulate how and when he interacts with her. You do have a right to be unhappy about it, you do have a right to reassess whether you want to be in a relationship with him. You have a right to decide you are incompatible with him. You have a right to break up with him. That's all.

Basically, you are insecure. And, yes, you are playing the role of a jealous control freak. If this is not who you usually are in romantic relationships, then you are in a relationship with an unhealthy dynamic and you're allowing yourself to get pushed into playing a role that doesn't suit you. The reason why I'm thinking this way is because you indicated that jealousy was a factor in your boyfriend's former relationship. I assume you mean his ex-wife was jealous. And here you are doing things that can be viewed as signs of jealousy. The common denominator in the two situations is your boyfriend. So either he is generally attracted to women who are jealous and controlling or he goes put of his way to fabricate situations that make his current romantic partner feel insecure and like she is in competition with his ex and children/stepchild.

[Miss Spider]

I think when you become a step parent, you becoming a PARENT, just like in the case of a biological kid. Parenthood isn’t only about blood. I think it’s a very admirable thing of him to stay in his step daughters life despite the fact his relationship with his ex wife isn’t good. He is being a good parent. That’s what it’s all about. Yeah it may lead to some frustrations sometimes, but don’t think you should try to dissolve that. 

[balletomane]

You're right to be upset that he's constantly ranting about his ex. If he's still so hung up on her behaviour, he isn't ready for a relationship.

You're being unreasonable to attribute how he acts to his relationship with his stepdaughter. He helped to bring her up. That is a relationship in its own right.

[Blind-Sided]

1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said:

I think when you become a step parent, you becoming a PARENT, just like in the case of a biological kid. Parenthood isn’t only about blood. .....

I agree, and this is something I've thought about since my divorce.  If I met a woman with kids... I would eventually be part of their life, and just because I broke up with those kids mom... that doesn't mean that I would completely leave their lives too.

A perfect example of this is with my brother, and his relationship.  He has been divorced for +18 years now, and he never really dated.  He finally found a very nice girl, and she has a kid. That kid's biological father has been out of the picture since the kid was an infant. He is now 9, and sees my brother as a real father figure. 

[introverted1]

 

6 hours ago, MsJayne said:

The thing is, if he’d had an amicable split with his second wife, I wouldn’t have a problem with him maintaining a relationship with her daughter because there wouldn’t be the anger there, and I would probably even go meet her, etc. But because there’s so much hostility about her mother, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for him to still be hovering on the periphery of her life by maintaining contact with her daughter. And now, because I’ve spoken up, I feel it’s damaged our relationship because he accused me of telling him who he can associate with, and then took it further and accused me of suggesting he was attracted to the stepdaughter, and of trying to get back together with his ex. I didn’t tell him he couldn’t associate with her, nor did I tell him he must cancel the dinner, I just let him know I felt it was undermining our relationship because I see it as clinging on to the past and pushing his anger buttons. I also suspect from his exes point of view it must be a real thorn in her side that her daughter keeps up contact with this ex-husband who she had such a nasty break from. I feel I’ve been cast in the role of jealous control freak and I feel more resentful of that than I do about him crapping on about his ex-wife all the time.

Should I just let this go or is it as damaging as it feels? 

The bolded is odd to me. 

What did you say exactly?

I think you are treading on dangerous ground. 

[Snow_Queen]

I’m going to place the complaints about his ex-wife aside as it seems that isn’t as big an issue to you as his desire to maintain relations with his step-daughter.

You do realize you are doing the EXACT same thing his ex-wife did? You are demanding he limit contact with the step-daughter because you feel threatened over the ex-wife. This basically a daughter he has in his life. You cannot expect him to throw that relationship away because she isn’t a biological child. It’s unreasonable.

[Alexa 95]

8 hours ago, MsJayne said:

OK everyone…..input please.  I have been seeing my current guy for 7 months, and I adore him, and I know he adores me back.  I’m not ‘insecure’ in the relationship. Up to this point, the only thing we’ve ever bickered about is backgammon. However, we had our first disagreement yesterday, and it’s left me a bit confused.  He’s 5 years divorced from his second wife, and it was a volatile marriage full of jealousy, which degenerated into fighting and a lot of nastiness, and the divorce was as ugly as they get.  He claims she took him for a huge amount of money when they divorced, and he still has a lot of anger over that. I think I’ve been very understanding, but he’s brought it up so often that I have three times recently asked him to stop talking about it. I’d heard more than enough when he told me he stopped seeing his biological kids because she was so jealous of his first wife that every time he saw his kids there was a massive fight.  He is now trying to rebuild his relationships with his bio kids, and I’m fully supportive.  When we first met he told me that he still had a relationship with his step-daughter from the second marriage, and he has more than once referred to her children as his grandchildren.  At first I was OK with this,  but this far down the track I’ve come to the belief that keeping the ‘ex-stepdaughter’ in his life is actually a constant reminder of the relationship with her mother, and I feel this is part of the reason why he’s not properly moving on and keeps bringing up his ex, (like two or three times a week!).  We’d talked about this and he agreed that maybe it was time to let go and fade the relationship, especially since the stepdaughter has reconciled with her bio father in recent years. On Tuesday night he brought up the ex yet again, and after 7 months of it I finally cracked the s--ts. Then on Wednesday night he rings me and during the conversation slips in that he’s going for dinner with the ex step-daughter the following week. So I got angry again and let him know that I felt it had reached the point where he was undermining our relationship by constantly bringing up the ex, and reminded him that he’d acknowledged it was time to let go of the past, wind down the relationship with the ex step-daughter, etc.  So, he tells me he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me so he’ll fix it, and he cancels the dinner. But then later he accuses me of telling him who he can associate with, denies that he’s spoken about his ex step as if he’s still her stepfather and says “she’s only a friend”, (changes the whole context of their relationship in four words).  Then he accuses me of talking about my exes all the time, and I do mention them occasionally, but I really don’t think I speak of them frequently, and I certainly don’t repeat ad nauseam the same stories about how badly they treated me.

The thing is, if he’d had an amicable split with his second wife, I wouldn’t have a problem with him maintaining a relationship with her daughter because there wouldn’t be the anger there, and I would probably even go meet her, etc. But because there’s so much hostility about her mother, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for him to still be hovering on the periphery of her life by maintaining contact with her daughter. And now, because I’ve spoken up, I feel it’s damaged our relationship because he accused me of telling him who he can associate with, and then took it further and accused me of suggesting he was attracted to the stepdaughter, and of trying to get back together with his ex. I didn’t tell him he couldn’t associate with her, nor did I tell him he must cancel the dinner, I just let him know I felt it was undermining our relationship because I see it as clinging on to the past and pushing his anger buttons. I also suspect from his exes point of view it must be a real thorn in her side that her daughter keeps up contact with this ex-husband who she had such a nasty break from. I feel I’ve been cast in the role of jealous control freak and I feel more resentful of that than I do about him crapping on about his ex-wife all the time.

Should I just let this go or is it as damaging as it feels? 

I dont think you should interfere in his relationship with his stepdaughter. Thats his daughter. Regardless of if shes a grown woman or not.

If you feel its too much baggage for you to deal with, why not take a step back 

 

[chillii]

ln some cases, it may well have been a real father daughter thing , with all the love and devotion of any other . To expect them to just stop that throw it away , is just cruel to both it could be a life thing from here and he's been a huge part of her life a long time. l don't know what their relationship is like but he obviously does have a fatherly devotion to her despite the ex so it must be a very strong bond let alone wanting to be part of her kids lives in that way too.  You've only been around 7mths , you could up and walk away , turn out to be a nightmare or worse than his ex yet , happens everyday and long after 7mth mths too., just sayin. Your relationship is brand new, he doesn't know what your made of or whether it'll even work for whatever reason so he can't and shouldn't anyway just throw away his relationship with the step daughter and her kids,.

So on that alone, and everything actually , it's a more time thing. lf you love him and see a real future , then keep chipping away , it'll work itself out , it'll take a lot longer than 7mths though. But at the same time with the ex talk , that l'd just be gentle about too , less is more, just give him a reminder when he needs it he';ll slowly get on top of it, no battles and fights that's the last thing he needs, you either , that'll only split you up in the end Why do you say he "claims " she took him for a lot , don't you even trust him , he's certainly not gonna go turning his relationship with the daughter upside down for you if you don't even trust him , doesn't say much about your relationship and views.

Edited June 12, 2020 by chillii

[Ruby Slippers]

I agree that it's healthy and normal for him to maintain a relationship with his ex-step child.

The real problem here is that he's obviously still very resentful and hasn't healed from the hurt from the divorce, to such a degree that he's carried it into this relationship with you.

I just broke up with my ex-bf of 6 months - again. Our relationship was volatile all along, and one of the things that concerned me most from the very beginning is that he was obviously still very resentful and had not healed emotionally from his divorce more than 10 years ago. It was a similar story - she took half the assets and he claims she was vindictive, going after anything she could get, refusing to come to a workable solution together, running up huge lawyer bills out of anger and spite.

It became more and more clear to me as we went along that my original worry was absolutely founded - he was punishing me for her mistakes, even though I'm nothing like that and didn't deserve it. Until he heals from that bad experience, he will continue to punish any woman he's involved with and compromise any new relationship.

In the end I told him that it seems to me he might never get over that and be able to fully open his heart to someone new. He's letting this woman continue to compromise his life because he's not really healing and moving on.

When a person has processed the emotions, healed, and moved on, they don't talk about former relationships with negative emotion. I always make sure to take adequate time after any breakup to heal, make my peace, and let it go, so I don't drag unresolved emotions forward into the next relationship. As a result, I never talk about exes in anything more than a neutral, factual way. I don't get emotional about those past relationships because I've let it all go and they no longer have an emotional hold over me.

If I were in your position, I'd back off from the relationship and stop investing. This man has a lot of reflection and healing to do before he'll be ready to give his heart to anyone again. Some people never manage to do that, unfortunately.

[Miss Spider]

I agree that talking about exes in a heated/emotionally charged way is a MAJOR red flag. I will cite some problems I experienced with exes just to explain why I hold an opinion on here, but overall, as flawed as any one of my exes may have been, I am no less flawed. They are just individuals with problems like all the rest. To speak bitter/badly about them beyond that says more about the person than the ex. They are holding on to anger

 

Glad you broke up again and hopefully for the final time because it didn't seem like a healthy relationship and really seemed you could do a lot better!

Edited June 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Glad you broke up again and hopefully for the final time because it didn't seem like a healthy relationship and really seemed you could do a lot better!

Hmm, did they break up?  I didnt read that, I'll take another look. 

[Miss Spider]

I meant Ruby Slippers and her ex

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Hmm, did they break up?  I didnt read that, I'll take another look. 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Versacehottie]

9 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

What if he just loves his stepdaughter he helped raise?

It happens.

oh agreed 1000%  Just saying what i said in the context of what the OP said and the current situation. The truth of what is going on lies somewhere in the middle of what the OP says and what he is doing.  In this case, i tend to think the OP is onto something, mainly cause the guy is still burning up about the ex when he has a lovely new girlfriend in his life.  

If I was in her shoes, and taking what she says as close to the truth without much editorializing, I probably wouldn't' give him too much more of a chance.  A little, not a lot.  That he's showing a volatile side and focusing on and holding onto bad things in his in his life over the good things would be problematic.  I think it sounded like she was clear about where she draws the line so let's see if he can actually make progress on it, which he should be doing that for himself anyway not even the OP though she said it.  I definitely don't think he should dump the stepdaughter out of his life, but maybe back off a little until things calm down with the ex-wife or if they conduct their relationship (ie stepdaughter/stepfather) as adults do and he doesn't use her like a pawn to annoy his ex-wife, ie don't mention getting together to the ex etc--that the OP should have no real problem with IMO.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Versacehottie

[Ruby Slippers]

Thanks, @Cookiesandough 

26 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

To speak bitter/badly about them beyond that says more about the person than the ex, they are holding on to anger

Exactly. It also reveals a denial of your part of the equation. I never bad-mouth exes, even if they deserve it. I chose to be with that guy and I played my part. It takes two to tango.

[mark clemson]

I think that as you get used to each other and the NRE starts to fade a bit the "real" them starts to emerge as they become more secure in the relationship and devote less energy to suppressing any negative sides/issues. This doesn't at all mean the good side isn't real, just that you start to get a more balanced picture. Sounds like perhaps you've started this process. It very much sounds like anger and resentment issues are part of the package here (as well as push-back when you ask for things/make recommendations). There's really nothing surprising about any of that, people aren't perfect, it's just degrees of imperfection.

You'll have to see eventually the full extent of all that and if you can deal with it. Presumably IC can help him if he's interested.

IMO he shouldn't be "abandoning" any of the kids in his life, although he could perhaps fade into the background a bit if that is helpful to all involved.

Edited June 12, 2020 by mark clemson

[deepthinking]

when he goes on about that ex? My brother was the same - PTSD He didn't talk about her flatteringly, but felt sorry for himself with good reason. His wife got fed up with it too. He stopped eventually.

Edited June 12, 2020 by deepthinking

[Ellener]

13 hours ago, MsJayne said:

I’d heard more than enough when he told me he stopped seeing his biological kids

The guy I dated earlier this year told me he had done the same, I don't have much respect for losing touch with kids so I knew it was a sign we wouldn't have a long relationship.

He needs to let go of his emotions about it all now and make a happy life to be with you ( and for the kids as role model )

@deepthinking has a point though. I had to go to therapy to deal with my divorce, my friends were sick of hearing about it!

 

[kendahke]

It sounds to me that this guy, despite what he tells you about his feelings, isn't emotionally ready to move on with someone new and that's why that tether to his ex is a 5 inch cable that you can't sever.

Remember: indifference is the opposite of love, not anger, not hatred.  Sounds to me like there is still a lot of passion for her that hasn't been expelled from him--5 years after the fact. That should be settled by now, so that should tell you he's not done, emotionally, with her.  All you need to do when he brings up his ex wife is to cut the conversation off at the knees... or stop dealing with him. But until he's ready to emotionally move on, he's not going to do it.

And his relationship with his step daughter isn't in your lane... you'd be well advise to stay in your own lane on that one.

Edited June 12, 2020 by kendahke

[Miss Spider]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Thanks, @Cookiesandough 

Exactly. It also reveals a denial of your part of the equation. I never bad-mouth exes, even if they deserve it. I chose to be with that guy and I played my part. It takes two to tango.

Yep, and why when I meet a guy, when he speaks about his exes neutrally, even if they did hurt him a lot, he already gets a leg up in my respect for him. There's something commendable about taking ownership of your life and not dwelling on some blame game.