Dating a guy who is homeless

[Miss Spider]

I know I said I wouldn't date again or make a thread again...But I feel like it is noteworthy to say this.

 

I had a date this evening with this guy who made me think for the first time I could actually fall for someone. There are just a couple problems.

First issue is that he is homeless. I don't care. My whole life I've dated guys with homes.  I have never been impressed by a single one of them.

The only problem with that is that we really don't have very many places to go. I am living back with my folks while I finish my program (which he knows).He is living out of his car and bouncing from friend house to friend house at the moment. Our date was at the park. The logistics of dating homeless person are complicated. 

 

His mind has a depth I just don't witness in many people. There are very few concepts I feel like I can talk to with my dates and have them be as interested in them as I am. This guy and I were having gut-level conversations like we'd known each other years.. He was so open, honest, vulnerable in a way most people aren't. Most people are fake af on a first date. Don't know his age, but he looks to be early 30s max. My ex was a temp bassist for him 3 years ago.Years ago, they were playing a lot of shows and I would go to some (that's how we met and we reconnected on FB). His undergrad is in theatre. He is divorced officially since last September. He has been struggling bad due to some things but refuses to move back into his parents home on principle. He doesn't like to go too long without drinking. Probably the most notable thing is He has borderline personality disorder. Supposedly that means doesn't have a stable indentity. He explained that his his perception of himself was a direct result of how he perceived OTHERS perceived him. 

He makes me feel something in a way I never felt before. I am physically attracted to him, but always the feeling I just want to cuddle him and be there for him as a friend. But I  The more he spoke, the. more attractive he became. 

 

One other thing. Though he did tell me he found me physically attractive, he didn't make any physical moves, even when we went back to cars. By moves Im including those stares that make you feel the sexual tension. There was just 0.  I've been learning not to take this as a bad thing and maybe he didn't see it as the right time.  

 

Our date got broken up by the police (just the park was closing) but he did message me he wants to see me again. I think one more date definitely wouldn't hurt. Especially since technically we're still only friends at this point. I guess I'm a little afraid that if this really is the first time I fall for someone and he has all these issues he is battling,  I might get hurt. But I am open to (and actually might prefer) something more casual. So I feel like it should be okay as long as my parents never find out. But then another part isn't really sure he even likes me that much.   Any thoughts on this?

 

[nittygritty]

He doesn’t like to go too long without drinking?  So he is an alcoholic, that is homeless and he also has other mental health issues.  I think you can do better and deserve better. 

[Vitaminka]

No advice to give, but sure you can do better! You deserve better!

A homeless guy with a  drinking problem and with a mental health issue? On top of that he may or may not like you. Yakes. Will you be able to handle all that long term? Should you handle all that long term? Even if you are looking for a casual thing, YOU SURE DESERVE BETTER! Why don't you think so? Not judging you at all, but are you that desperate and willing to take whatever comes your way?

Sure you can find a connection with somebody who is better or at least with someone will less issues sooner or later.

Perhaps you need to see a psychologist to find out why you don't value yourself enough. Perhaps a psychologist will help you realize that you need to set your standards higher.

In my opinion it's better to be alone than to date just about anybody. 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Vitaminka
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[Miss Spider]

Hi...thank you all so much for your kind words xx. It's not that I don't think I can get a guy with a place to stay or a or who doesn't drinking or  have a mental health issue or that I am afraid to be alone. It's that I actually really, really like this guy and that is rare for me. I am not really that drawn to many guys. I go on date after date and they are cool, but more or less all the same. Now I finally meet someone I find interesting and can talk to about topics that really interest me and is attractive to me in a weird way. So far, I really like him and very curious. But we are just friends now I suppose

 

One thing is  he says that because he has BPD, when someone doesn't answer his text or all, his mind can go to all these things and he'll feel like he's being abandoned, which is a symptom of that disorder. That could be problematic.

 

On another note...I have finally let someone go that I was keeping around but I had very little interest in. It was hard...but I just needed to let go of him because it's better to let him be happy and find someone who really likes him. And I'd rather be alone than around someone I don't like. Ifeel bad though because he was very kind to me and I as courteous of his feelings as I should have been.

Thank you again!!!

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Vitaminka]

12 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Hi...thank you all so much for your kind words xx. It's not that I don't think I can get a guy with a place to stay or a or who doesn't drinking or  have a mental health issue or that I am afraid to be alone. It's that I actually really, really like this guy and that is rare for me. I am not really that drawn to many guys. I go on date after date and they are cool, but more or less all the same. Now I finally meet someone I find interesting and can talk to about topics that really interest me and is attractive to me in a weird way. So far, I really like him and very curious. But we are just friends now I suppose

 

One thing is  he says that because he has BPD, when someone doesn't answer his text or all, his mind can go to all these things and he'll feel like he's being abandoned, which is a symptom of that disorder. That could be problematic.

 

On another note...I have finally let someone go that I was keeping around but I had very little interest in. It was hard...but I just needed to let go of him because it's better to let him be happy and find someone who really likes him. And I'd rather be alone than around someone I don't like.

Thank you again!!!

 

 

Keep dating other people OP. This guy sounds terrible, horrible to be honest. Does he even have a job? Keep dating till you find someone else you can connect with. And you will, eventually. Someone with less problems. Do you really need to be his savior?

Edited June 4, 2020 by Vitaminka

[ExpatInItaly]

Sorry, but no. I would give this guy a hard pass. 

There are too many problems right out of the gate. 

[basil67]

So let's look at his history and goals. 

Prior to COVID, did he may enough money from music to support himself?  If not, what is his practical skill set and how easy would it be for him to get a day job?  

How has his BPD affected previous relationships?   Does he do therapy?  If he's been prescribed meds, is he compliant?

Why is it against his principles to move in with family but it's OK to mooch off a friend?

How much does he drink and how often?   Is he self medicating?

[snowboy91]

I can't help but get the feeling you'll be drawn into becoming some kind of provider for him if you continue with him. Despite the connection you have with him, it will turn out to be a lot of work very quickly.

If nothing else, you've at least learned about the kind of connection you want to have with someone. As rare as you think it is, there will be someone out there you can connect with who has a more stable housing situation.

[chillii]

Umm, depth , yet you had someone on a string you weren't even interested in , not much depth in that ms cook cook.

This guy , honestly bpd alone is a really good reason to run like hell it's a very serious thing that will drain you and probably send you to the couch yourself. What your seeing right now is his good behavior and intensity very typical and it draws you in , but you really don't wanna see the rest believe me and then there's the other stuff.

[Weezy1973]

I dated someone with Borderline Personality Disorder for awhile, and I’d say be very cautious. The problem with BPD is usually specific to close interpersonal relationships, so as long as you two aren’t serious there won’t be problems. 
 

You’re right to be wary of abandonment issues. But with BPD, once in a relationship, they oscillate between abandonment issues and feeling of engulfment (losing themselves in the relationship). And they never feel comfortable and content. And there’s nothing you can do about it, no matter how hard you try.

 

That being said, it sounds like he’s been diagnosed. BPD primarily is treated by therapy. Although many are prescribed anti-depressants, that’s because depression and anxiety are often part of the package. Many with BPD have attempted suicide. 
 

If you do go down this path, just take it slow and be very cautious. Been forewarned though, your caution could trigger his abandonment issues. He may pressure you into jumping into something serious very quickly in an attempt to calm his anxiety. Don’t let that happen. Take things slow.
 

 

[balletomane]

I think the question you need to ask yourself isn't, "Should I date this man?" but, "Why am I attracted to someone with these very significant difficulties?"

I think you're in danger of getting swept up in a fantasy where you're the only one who understands a badly misunderstood man, and he's the special person who truly understands you. All the people who warn you about him don't have your unique insight. This type of thinking is characteristic of BPD - at first a sufferer will treat you as if you are extraordinary. "You're the only one who..." But he will have said this before to many other people. He can go in seconds from seeing you as an angel to thinking you're the worst person in the world, all because you brought him a different kind of sandwich from the one you promised.

I know because I was in a relationship with a man diagnosed with BPD for two years. It was devastating. He abused me, but even without the abuse, his illness would have had a terrible effect on my own mental health. An example of what he could be like: he got convinced that two complete strangers in a shop wanted him dead because they looked at him in a way he considered nasty. (I doubt they were looking at him at all.) When I tried to comfort him, he blew up at me for not just agreeing that these people were terrible. He spent the whole night crying, accusing me of being uncaring and making his suffering worse, and saying some frankly vicious things. I stayed because I reasoned it wasn't his fault he was so ill and if I could only be a better girlfriend he wouldn't have outbursts like that.

This guy is already setting you up for some blame when he tells you that his self-perception is based on how he thinks others see him. He feels awful about himself soday? That must be because you see him badly. Sooner or later you'll be accused of that, and worse.

I don't believe it's impossible to have a relationship with people with BPD. But those people will be participating in regular therapy and committed to stabilising their lives, not actively addicted to alcohol and living out of a car "on principle". Do not let yourself start seeing his situation as somehow deep and complex and romantic. It's a mess and it doesn't need to become your mess.

[DarrenB]

I see no harm in a second 'date' to get to know him a little better, however please take into consideration if it were to continue the difficulties probably outweighing the simplicity is a huge factor when it comes to a progressive relationship.

Also note that by no means am I purposefully or maliciously ridiculing or discriminating against those that are homeless or in a similar position by stereotyping, but It's often too common for those that are in this guy's position to be or become desperate and resort to the most sly and deceiving acts to benefit themselves.

I know for a fact you're a kind-hearted and good woman so it would be a discredit to you if you were to be made a mockery in any way in this situation.

[Amanda141]

I'll jump on the bandwagon and say that yes, you need someone better, even just for something casual. When you are with a guy, you should be a girlfriend for him, not a provider of help, not a sort of red cross volunteer to help him with his problems...  

[Miss Spider]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

So let's look at his history and goals. 

Prior to COVID, did he may enough money from music to support himself?  If not, what is his practical skill set and how easy would it be for him to get a day job?  

How has his BPD affected previous relationships?   Does he do therapy?  If he's been prescribed meds, is he compliant?

Why is it against his principles to move in with family but it's OK to mooch off a friend?

How much does he drink and how often?   Is he self medicating?

Wow. Thank you all so much for your help/advice. I am realizing a dating a BPD person might be more than I can chew right now because I deal with some anxieties and overwhelming feelings sometimes myself. Balletomane, that sounds completely awful.

And interesting you bring up the paranoia, Balletomane, because out of nowhere he told me this story about how there is a guy who wants him dead and actively thinks of ways to kill him every day. I asked why and he said he doesn't know, but the guy has a mental disorder too.

I can only assume he was making enough prior since that was the only thing he's ever done/only real skill he has and he was not homeless before. What he says happened was he divorced his wife because she was an mentally/physically abusive alcoholic who accused him of mentally/physically abusing her. His wife was the drummer for his project. Last year, while they were divorced, his bassist (another one) slept with her, so they disbanded. Also, his project goes through members really fast and their label got mad.I know because my ex was a temp bassist for his project for a bit (but my ex also had a stable job) and he snubbed him out of $600 once and said he has a bad attitude. He has finished new stuff and is people together again he says. He let me listen to it and usually when people send me stuff I am not into it, but his wasn't unbearable.

 

What was probably the most confusing part for me was his relationship with alcohol. He told me he drinks pretty much all day every day but never gets drunk. He said that he doesn't like to go too long without alcohol or he gets the shakes. I think he said it helped him cope with some depressing thoughts. He said he had a bottle of whisky in his trunk, and after what he had told me, I told him that maybe he should go get it.So I asked him...does he plan on getting ever stopping or is this just how he wants to be? He said yea he will just continue ,he just likes to drink. It was just odd, because it seemed as though he didn't even seem to get what I was implying ? (That he might have an alcohol problem...)

 

 

Okay as I write this all out I see that it doesn't sound too great.

 

Damn it, why is it that I get along so well with one of the most dysfunctional people I've ever been on a date with? ...I don't even wanna know

*SIGH* Back to the drawing board...Thank you again.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Weezy1973]

3 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Damn it, why is it that I get along so well with one of the most dysfunctional people I've ever been on a date with? ...I don't even wanna know

 

This is actually the exact question you should be asking.

[Erik30]

11 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Wow. Thank you all so much for your help/advice. I am realizing a dating a BPD person might be more than I can chew right now because I deal with some anxieties and overwhelming feelings sometimes myself. Balletomane, that sounds completely awful.

And interesting you bring up the paranoia, Balletomane, because out of nowhere he told me this story about how there is a guy who wants him dead and actively thinks of ways to kill him every day. I asked why and he said he doesn't know, but the guy has a mental disorder too.

I can only assume he was making enough prior since that was the only thing he's ever done/only real skill he has and he was not homeless before. What he says happened was he divorced his wife because she was an mentally/physically abusive alcoholic who accused him of mentally/physically abusing her. His wife was the drummer for his project. Last year, while they were divorced, his bassist (another one) slept with her, so they disbanded. Also, his project goes through members really fast and their label got mad.I know because my ex was a temp bassist for his project for a bit (but my ex also had a stable job) and he snubbed him out of $600 once and said he has a bad attitude. He has finished new stuff and is people together again he says. He let me listen to it and usually when people send me stuff I am not into it, but his wasn't unbearable.

 

What was probably the most confusing part for me was his relationship with alcohol. He told me he drinks pretty much all day every day and never gets drunk. He said that he doesn't like to go too long without alcohol or he gets the shakes. I think he said it helped him cope with some depressing thoughts. He said he had a bottle of whisky in his trunk, and after what he had told me, I told him that maybe he should go get it.So I asked him...does he plan on getting ever stopping on is it just how he wants to be? He said yea he doesn't really see it as a problem and he just likes to drink. It was just odd, because it seemed as though he didn't even seem to get what I was implying ? (That he might have an alcohol problem...)

 

 

Okay as I write this all out I see that it doesn't sound too great.

 

Damn it, why is it that I get along so well with one of the most dysfunctional people I've ever been on a date with? ...I don't even wanna know

*SIGH* Back to the drawing board...Thank you again.

 

I just wanted to say "run," but it seems like you're already planning on doing that... so good 

[40Something]

7 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I know I said I wouldn't date again or make a thread again...But I feel like it is noteworthy to say this.

 

I had a date this evening with this guy who made me think for the first time I could actually fall for someone. There are just a couple problems.

First issue is that he is homeless. I don't care. My whole life I've dated guys with homes.  I have never been impressed by a single one of them.

The only problem with that is that we really don't have very many places to go. I am living back with my folks while I finish my program (which he knows).He is living out of his car and bouncing from friend house to friend house at the moment. Our date was at the park. The logistics of dating homeless person are complicated. 

 

His mind has a depth I just don't witness in many people. There are very few concepts I feel like I can talk to with my dates and have them be as interested in them as I am. This guy and I were having gut-level conversations like we'd known each other years.. He was so open, honest, vulnerable in a way most people aren't. Most people are fake af on a first date. Don't know his age, but he looks to be early 30s max. My ex was a temp bassist for him 3 years ago.Years ago, they were playing a lot of shows and I would go to some (that's how we met and we reconnected on FB). His undergrad is in theatre. He is divorced officially since last September. He has been struggling bad due to some things but refuses to move back into his parents home on principle. He doesn't like to go too long without drinking. Probably the most notable thing is He has borderline personality disorder. Supposedly that means doesn't have a stable indentity. He explained that his his perception of himself was a direct result of how he perceived OTHERS perceived him. 

He makes me feel something in a way I never felt before. I am physically attracted to him, but always the feeling I just want to cuddle him and be there for him as a friend. But I  The more he spoke, the. more attractive he became. 

 

One other thing. Though he did tell me he found me physically attractive, he didn't make any physical moves, even when we went back to cars. By moves Im including those stares that make you feel the sexual tension. There was just 0.  I've been learning not to take this as a bad thing and maybe he didn't see it as the right time.  

 

Our date got broken up by the police (just the park was closing) but he did message me he wants to see me again. I think one more date definitely wouldn't hurt. Especially since technically we're still only friends at this point. I guess I'm a little afraid that if this really is the first time I fall for someone and he has all these issues he is battling,  I might get hurt. But I am open to (and actually might prefer) something more casual. So I feel like it should be okay as long as my parents never find out. But then another part isn't really sure he even likes me that much.   Any thoughts on this?

 

Hi Cookies, you gave me some really good advice in my thread thank you.

I've read most of your threads and I'm sorry you're struggling with dating. My love life is a disaster so I'm in no position to advise anyone but reading this made me feel for you.

Run, you appear to be attracted to broken men ( as a lot of us seem to be ). This guy has nothing to offer you but eventual heartache. I know that you're trying not to judge him based on his homelessness but shoo, BPD and an alcohol problem added in? 

The early stages of dating should be easy and amazing. You deserve that, don't settle for anything less.

[balletomane]

I'm glad you can see things clearly. You're saving yourself a lot of heartache.

Another common difficulty with BPD is serious projection. A sufferer will often accuse other people of doing the very things they do themselves. For this man to be able to drink so much without feeling drunk, he must have a very high tolerance level for the drug, which indicates he's drinking a lot - as does the shaking, which is a withdrawal symptom. But his ex-wife is the one who is the alcoholic, according to him? It's possible that she is too, but I doubt it. I suspect that is his projection. The abuse allegations also seem suspicious to me for this reason. My BPD ex described all his former partners as abusive, every single one of them. Eventually he accused me of being "the worst abuser I've ever met". The thing that triggered that outburst was me getting lost on the way to meet him and keeping him waiting. I was devastated when he said that. When I finally got out of that relationship I was diagnosed with PTSD and referred for counselling at a domestic abuse centre. It took a long time for me to recognise that his behaviour to me had been abusive, because he had me convinced that I was the one in the wrong. In his words, "It's a good thing you're crazy. It's the only thing that stops you from being completely evil." On other days he would deny that he'd ever said these things and tell me that I was the best person he knew. It was bewildering and exhausting. Looking back, it's obvious how irrational, paranoid, and cruel he was, but at the time I was so mired in it that I couldn't see or think clearly. It's good that you've recognised the warning signs early on.

Edited June 4, 2020 by balletomane

[introverted1]

I think others, especially @basil67 and @balletomane, have addressed your OP,  but I just want to comment on this:

 

34 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

 He told me he drinks pretty much all day every day but never gets drunk. He said that he doesn't like to go too long without alcohol or he gets the shakes.

This is alcoholism, pure and simple.  The shakes are the DTs.  He will never be able to stop drinking without significant in-patient help. Quite literally, he would die if were to stop on his own.

[elaine567]

BPD is almost always a reaction to severe trauma/abuse and here he is self medicating with alcohol.
He never gets drunk as his whole metabolism is geared up to deal with it.
That doesn't mean he is not doing great damage to his body, especially his liver. 

2 hours ago, balletomane said:

Do not let yourself start seeing his situation as somehow deep and complex and romantic. It's a mess and it doesn't need to become your mess.

This^^^

[simpycurious]

This was one of the most difficult threads that I have read here on the LS.  It is both disappointing and alarming all rolled into one and not even close to what I would have expected.  I think the replies have been consistent and to the point as to the best course of action moving forward. 

[Redhead14]

2 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

 he told me this story about how there is a guy who wants him dead and actively thinks of ways to kill him every day. I asked why and he said he doesn't know, but the guy has a mental disorder too.

 He told me he drinks pretty much all day every day but never gets drunk. He said that he doesn't like to go too long without alcohol or he gets the shakes. I think he said it helped him cope with some depressing thoughts.

This man clearly has at least one serious mental/emotional disorder.  His paranoia is likely part of a mental disorder for which he is self-medicating with alcohol.  His dependence on alcohol further exacerbates the mental disorder.  Paranoia and hallucinations can also be caused by chronic and heavy alcohol abuse alone.   On top of all that, given his likely very poor diet and surviving on the calories gleaned from the alchohol, he is at great risk for Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome (wet brain).  It's a vitamin deficiency - Thiamine.  This involves two two individual syndromes: Wernicke’s encephalopathy and Korsakoff’s psychosis. Wernicke’s encephalopathy is a condition that causes neurological symptoms as a result of biochemical lesions of the nervous system. It most commonly affects specific portions of the brain, including the thalamus and hypothalamus, which play a role in memory. Korsakoff’s psychosis is a long-lasting condition that tends to develop after the Wernicke’s encephalopathy symptoms go away. Korsakoff’s psychosis arises as a result of permanent damage to the parts of the brain responsible for memory.  All I'm saying is that this man is only going to get worse over time in so many ways. 

He says he never gets drunk???  That is because, like a drug addict, the more alcohol you take in the more you need to get "high".  This man has very, very serious issues and you should stay away from him! 

You're looking at this guy as just being down on his luck and homeless.  But this guy is a) homeless, b) clearly has a mental disorder and c) is a raging alcoholic who could probably hurt you not only physically but mentally and emotionally as well.  And, trust me, "whoever" you met on your "date" is not the guy you think he is.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Redhead14

[FMW]

I think it's commendable that you are accepting and non-judgmental.  But you have to watch out for your best interest and safety (emotional and physical), and as has been covered, a relationship with this guy is very unlikely to be that.

During these emotionally trying times (the protesting and riots, COVID) people seem to get harder or softer.  I think you've gotten "softer", being more open and aware of what others around you are feeling.  Something about his situation made you feel drawn to him as someone in need.  The fact that he responded to you as a person to connect with and not just a chick to score with probably also drew you in.

I understand that reaction, but if I was your friend or family, I would urge you to not have any further contact with him.  The takeaway is that you CAN feel that connection and interest.  Just be patient and wait for it to show up in a healthier way.        

[Gr8fuln2020]

8 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

On another note...I have finally let someone go that I was keeping around but I had very little interest in. It was hard...but I just needed to let go of him because it's better to let him be happy and find someone who really likes him. And I'd rather be alone than around someone I don't like. Ifeel bad though because he was very kind to me and I as courteous of his feelings as I should have been.

Thank you again!!!

Yikes. I think you really need to sit back and think about whether someone suffering a mental illness and homeless will make you happy. There is a reason why this guy is in the streets and you are aware that there will be, not may, WILL be major issues from the starting block. In all reality, you two having a lot less in common than you feel you do. Having a conversation with someone who, at that moment, seems lucid and idealistic (perhaps), and under the circumstance, romantic, does not constitute the beginnings of a fledgling romance. This can also be dangerous. Imagine the obstacles...wow. 

I hope you reconsider your feelings. 

[elaine567]

23 minutes ago, FMW said:

  The fact that he responded to you as a person to connect with and not just a chick to score with probably also drew you in.

Yes but that is probably due to the fact he can't get or maintain an erection rather than any moral superiority...