CaliforniaGirl Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Grey40 said: What’s your solution then? I told you, Grey... But I don't think you like my answer...and I get it, I do... But you need to find out **why YOU** want people who don't want you. Why you're attracted to women who are going to make you feel bad about yourself, who never offer you any sense of security, who literally always have one foot out the door...are chased by, and gloat in the attraction of other men. Women who think you're basically "lesser." You can't just fake self-confidence if there's something deeper going on, because trust me, that WILL crack, plus if you're using it to hold the attraction of these messed-up, can't commit women, all you'll get will be *more* of their sh-- because you'll be spending more time with them. So, more seeing that they have these satellites around, more subtle negs, more feeling that you constantly have to be playing a part...to keep someone who's completely unstable that way. You will never be happy this way and your self esteem will be in the toilet. You do need to make changes, yes, but not in "how you seem" so you can keep women who can only mess you up, and they will, no matter how you manage to keep hold of one for a while. You'll be cheated on, you'll get an STD, something pretty negative will absolutely happen with these women at least as you describe them. This will never get better, you will never find that push-pull semi-chilly woman who "needs" men around her all the time, but will somehow fall into your arms and go, "I'm a changed woman now!" Women do this too all the time, with men. Wish that that playboy will suddenly change his ways...just for them. Like a movie. This isn't a movie, Grey... Figure it out...figure out why you feel attracted to unattainable women who are a mess. Edited June 3, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
Author Grey40 Posted June 3, 2020 Author Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: I told you, Grey... But I don't think you like my answer...and I get it, I do... But you need to find out **why YOU** want people who don't want you. Why you're attracted to women who are going to make you feel bad about yourself, who never offer you any sense of security, who literally always have one foot out the door...are chased by, and gloat in the attraction of other men. Women who think you're basically "lesser." You can't just fake self-confidence if there's something deeper going on, because trust me, that WILL crack, plus if you're using it to hold the attraction of these messed-up, can't commit women, all you'll get will be *more* of their sh-- because you'll be spending more time with them. So, more seeing that they have these satellites around, more subtle negs, more feeling that you constantly have to be playing a part...to keep someone who's completely unstable that way. You will never be happy this way and your self esteem will be in the toilet. You do need to make changes, yes, but not in "how you seem" so you can keep women who can only mess you up, and they will, no matter how you manage to keep hold of one for a while. You'll be cheated on, you'll get an STD, something pretty negative will absolutely happen with these women at least as you describe them. This will never get better, you will never find that push-pull semi-chilly woman who "needs" men around her all the time, but will somehow fall into your arms and go, "I'm a changed woman now!" Women do this too all the time, with men. Wish that that playboy will suddenly change his ways...just for them. Like a movie. This isn't a movie, Grey... Figure it out...figure out why you feel attracted to unattainable women who are a mess. Lol I have no idea why. I think those are the types of women who pay attention to me and give me at least initially the time of day. They're also the girls that actively pursue me a lot and are aggressive for some reason. Edited June 3, 2020 by Grey40
poppyfields Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Grey40 said: What’s your solution then? Introspect, seek counseling to determine why it is you become attracted to women (and stay with them) whose actions cause you to feel insecure and off balance. Most men wouldn't stay I don't think unless they're able to scale down feelings and expectations, treat it casually, like she's an FWB or FB. But if he has genuine feelings, I don't think an emotionally healthy man with high level of self esteem would stay. You need to figure out why you do, and did stay and what draws you to these types of women in the first place. Edited June 3, 2020 by poppyfields
Miss Spider Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Grey40 said: My last ex was very similar in that she was a male user as well...jumping from guy to guy on a whim as soon as she got bored, or noticed that she didn’t want to be with them for the long term. As soon as she loses attraction she starts openly looking and seeking new options, which is why she always has a long list of dudes she’s talking to, to pull from. Some are there just for ego boosting, some for friend zone, some for booty call and some that if they became single again she’d want to date. They say they want one guy, but in reality they’ll never be satisfied with that until they get tired of the chase. I think I need a woman who doesn’t need that crazy amount of male attention, or at least someone that doesn’t actively talk to guys thinking they can be “just friends”. After dating now two women in a row like this, I need to be quicker at weeding these women out. I hope you take this how it is intended. I may be wrong about this too. Just a theory. Yes, There are men and women who, for whatever reason, are just attracted to scumbag Steves and Stacies. They are masochists who just seem to like people who discard them. People who basically have a solar system worth of orbiters and love validation and attention... Maybe it is the women you're picking/what you’re attracted to , but maybe it's you/what you can attract. You say you are a self described "pretty boy" and in my experience, a lot of pretty boys lack qualities in other areas, especially if they identify as a "pretty boy." Looks really only go so far for both men and women. One of my exes in particular was very conventionally handsome and complained to me when we were dating how women always used him for sex and dropped him. I wish I could have just been honest with him about what the problem was, because to me it was clear as day. It was the same reason I got bored of him and decided to break up. He had very little self confidence(you could tell he was hyperaware of how others perceived him and not very comfortable in his skin), he seemed clingy (texts immediately back always, under every circumstance) , no mystery, and when he liked a girl he prioritized her over all else and it was apparent to her. If you have any of these qualities, women are probably going to a get a little bored, whether they have options lined up or not. But the fact is most women, no matter who they are what they look like, do have options they could jump to. If you're not a confident guy who prioritizes YOU, and then brings a lucky woman into your life, instead of looking for a woman to make you complete, then you are going to notice your girl's eyes start to wander after a while... Edited June 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1
Author Grey40 Posted June 3, 2020 Author Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: I hope you take this how it is intended. I may be wrong about this too. Just a theory. Yes, There are men and women who, for whatever reason, are just attracted to scumbag Steves and Stacies. They are masochists who just seem to like people who discard them. People who basically have a solar system worth of orbiters and love validation and attention... Maybe it is the women you're picking, but maybe it's you. You say you are a self described "pretty boy" and in my experience, a lot of pretty boys lack qualities in other areas, especially if they identify as a "pretty boy." Looks really only go so far for both men and women. One of my exes in particular was very conventionally handsome and complained to me when we were dating how women always used him for sex and dropped him. I wish I could have just been honest with him about what the problem was, because to me it was clear as day. It was the same reason I got bored of him and decided to break up. He had very little self confidence(you could tell he was hyperaware of how others perceived him and not very comfortable in his skin), he seemed clingy (texts immediately back always, under every circumstance) , no mystery, and when he liked a girl he prioritized her over all else and it was apparent to her. If you have any of these qualities, women are probably going to a get a little bored, whether they have options lined up or not. But the fact is most women, no matter who they are what they look like, do have options they could jump to. If you're not a confident guy who prioritizes YOU, and then brings a lucky woman into your life, instead of looking for a woman to make you, then you are going to notice your girl's eyes start to wander after a while... Wow, this is really spot on and I agree 100% with you. I don't identify as a pretty boy myself, but that's what a lot of people in my life have described me as..like a young tom cruise, or tom brady kind of attractive. Unfortunately I do have a lot of those qualities you mention---I do tend to prioritize the women I'm dating too much, and I also answer back relativley quickly, but not always. I never double text or act clingy usually, I've gotten better with that. I guess I worry that If I don't prioritize them they'll think I don't care. And that's because of my looks I get automatically labeled as a player who's just gonna cheat on them or screw them over. Women have a hard time trusting me because of my looks and becaue I'm a musician. I feel really bad for other guys out there who aren't attractive. Dating is really damn hard, even for someone who's good looking and can get their foot in the door much easier because of it. Here's a guy first hand who's been on dates with close to 200 women, none which have lasted past a few months. The statistics and odds just aren't great. Less than 1% of the women you "date" will have potential for long term success. Edited June 3, 2020 by Grey40 1
miranda561 Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Grey40 said: It also didn’t help my insecurity that she has all these make orbiters she gives attention to a lot, and attention that frankly isn’t normal. FaceTiming them, flirty discussions etc. I don’t think many men would feel totally secure if the girl they’re seeing is doing that stuff pretty blatantly. I think I would be much more secure in a relationship where the women has much stronger boundaries with males. You sure shes not a female narcissist 1
poppyfields Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 @miranda, oops forgot the "mad" emoji! Too freaking funny! Thanks! Made my day. Lol. 1
miranda561 Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 4 hours ago, poppyfields said: Since when is being a man with high self confidence and self esteem a "d-bag"? I haven't encountered that, quite the opposite. Since apparently you have, it appears your picker needs some fine tuning. Xd And what the hell is an "alpha male" anyway? These terms get thrown around and I'm at a loss as to what they mean. To me, the best men are a combo of both - alpha and beta. Strong, confident, take no shyt, but also knows how to be soft and vulnerable. Is there a term for that? P.S. I can feel a "HAHA" or "shocked" emoji coming from Miranda, or "sad." Have at it, I'm ready! Well those who have high esteem and are confident..there is a danger of it turning in to total arrogance and self entitlement. So the op here is actually seeming like a normal guy with manners ( believe it or not young 20 some things its rare to find) and hes being told to be something else entirely. I don't know of your dating history but ive spoken to tonnes of guys and got to know a wide variety of people. Therefore i can say what i say with total confidence.
poppyfields Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, miranda561 said: I don't know of your dating history but ive spoken to tonnes of guys and got to know a wide variety of people. Therefore i can say what i say with total confidence. Okay, so in your experience most men are d-bags (which is what you said in your previous post). Fair enough, far be it for me to question what you personally experience. Good luck to you. Edited June 3, 2020 by poppyfields 1
manfrombelow Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 7 hours ago, contel3 said: I find this post fascinating. The discourse would be so different if the genders were reversed..... How? Can you please elaborate?
contel3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 10 hours ago, manfrombelow said: How? Can you please elaborate? Sure! I was trying to say the posts on this topic can really tell you a lot about gender stereotypes. If the genders were reversed, people would probably be saying he's a player who was just trying to get her into bed from the beginning. Not feeling a spark is a bad excuse to try to cover up his terrible intentions. And that she should have been more careful and not let herself be played. Now since it's a woman who lost interest somehow "I feel no spark" isn't a valid explanation. She must be confused. Have self-esteem issues. She met another guy. As a woman it feels strange to read this, because all those statements somehow assume every woman is so desperate to find a guy - any guy - that she will not leave unless she has someone else lined up or has mental issues. People also assume she's playing games, which is pretty much discrediting anything she says…. The way I see it "I feel no spark" is a perfectly valid explanation, regardless of gender. Would be easy to fall in love if all it took was being nice and good-looking…. 1
Author Grey40 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Posted June 4, 2020 Update: just spotted her on Tinder this morning, seems like she just got back on, so I guess I can safely assume that there wasn’t a specific guy that came back in the picture or anything, she just wants to search for someone new. 1
SumGuy Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 23 hours ago, Grey40 said: Lol I have no idea why. I think those are the types of women who pay attention to me and give me at least initially the time of day. They're also the girls that actively pursue me a lot and are aggressive for some reason. That should build your confidence. Don’t let it get you down these things don’t last...in general they are likely not interested in a relationship, just sex. So yes that sucks if you want more, but accept it for what it is and find ways to attract the women you want. Realize some men would “kill” to be regularly used for sex Feel confident you got a something something. 1
Lotsgoingon Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 2:44 PM, Grey40 said: To me there was no doubt whatsoever that she was initially really physically attracted to me. But that was very short-lived. My personality in person probably wasn’t as engaging and fun as it was over the phone. I have to work on being more congruent and getting out of head when in person. I was much more quiet and less outgoing when I hung out with her in person..conversation seem sort of difficult... The question is, why did you not react the same way she did--by facing the obvious--that you guys don't have chemistry. If I'm on a date and talking to someone is hard ... if we can't get in a talking back-and-forth flow, then it's over. It ain't happening. For some reason, you're not paying attention to this information that is right in front of you. You're also framing the process of dating wrong. You don't need to be more anything in person. You want to be yourself ... maybe yourself on one of your best days ... but essentially yourself ... faking it doesn't work ... and you're looking for someone who LIKES your as yourself, right now. I do thing "getting out" of your head is insightful but not in the way you seem to think. You're in your head because you're sorta observing things and how you are presenting yourself ... and at the same time you're ignoring that the conversation between you two is flat and uninteresting. Dude, the conversation should be fantastic! "Good" doesn't cut it ... good means you'll be bored talking to this person in a week. So really you want to stop if the conversation is merely good ... you push on ... even when the conversation falls apart. What's up with that? 1
Author Grey40 Posted June 5, 2020 Author Posted June 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: The question is, why did you not react the same way she did--by facing the obvious--that you guys don't have chemistry. If I'm on a date and talking to someone is hard ... if we can't get in a talking back-and-forth flow, then it's over. It ain't happening. For some reason, you're not paying attention to this information that is right in front of you. You're also framing the process of dating wrong. You don't need to be more anything in person. You want to be yourself ... maybe yourself on one of your best days ... but essentially yourself ... faking it doesn't work ... and you're looking for someone who LIKES your as yourself, right now. I do thing "getting out" of your head is insightful but not in the way you seem to think. You're in your head because you're sorta observing things and how you are presenting yourself ... and at the same time you're ignoring that the conversation between you two is flat and uninteresting. Dude, the conversation should be fantastic! "Good" doesn't cut it ... good means you'll be bored talking to this person in a week. So really you want to stop if the conversation is merely good ... you push on ... even when the conversation falls apart. What's up with that? Well when we talked over the phone and on FaceTime the conversations were great. She even said when she ended things that she really enjoyed our conversations. But in person I was different. I got in my head too much, overanalyzed, got insecure and was too quiet because I was afraid of screwing things up...and ulimatkey it’s actually that behavior that screwed it all up because it made her lose attraction and realize maybe I’m not what she thought. I do think it didn’t help that we didn’t have much in common. I’m not sure what held it together for her over two months in FaceTiming..maybe it was just the thrill and mystery of finally meeting someone in person after all that anticipation building. And unfortunately she might have built it up to the point where when we did finally meet she was a bit let down. She wanted to give it a few more hangouts because we both invested a lot of hours getting to know each other, but I think ultimately she realized it just wasn’t there for her, even though she wanted it to be. I’m just disappointed she didn’t want to try harder or fight for it harder..have some more patience and let it grow and naturally take its course. that’s what bothers me, she cut it off like it wasn’t ever there, so coldly. She didn’t even attempt to try and make it work or communicate on what the issues might be she just gave up.
Author Grey40 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Posted June 6, 2020 If I did something wrong or red Flaggy to change a girls mind would she tell me what it was? Or would she use the “I don’t feel a spark” excuse to avoid confrontation? I feel like if something happened (like getting caught on a dating app by her friend) or something similar, it would benefit the person to know that they messed up and what not to do again in the future. What if this girl found some red flags or dealbreakers and didn’t tell me the truth? Now I’ll never know what those were and I can’t fix them.
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Grey40 said: If I did something wrong or red Flaggy to change a girls mind would she tell me what it was? Or would she use the “I don’t feel a spark” excuse to avoid confrontation? I feel like if something happened (like getting caught on a dating app by her friend) or something similar, it would benefit the person to know that they messed up and what not to do again in the future. What if this girl found some red flags or dealbreakers and didn’t tell me the truth? Now I’ll never know what those were and I can’t fix them. Not necessarily. Conversations like that are super uncomfortable.
contel3 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Grey40 said: If I did something wrong or red Flaggy to change a girls mind would she tell me what it was? Or would she use the “I don’t feel a spark” excuse to avoid confrontation? I feel like if something happened (like getting caught on a dating app by her friend) or something similar, it would benefit the person to know that they messed up and what not to do again in the future. What if this girl found some red flags or dealbreakers and didn’t tell me the truth? Now I’ll never know what those were and I can’t fix them. Stop beating yourself up….if you were too quiet, maybe you can tell your date before you meet that you're a bit shy on first dates….but that you open up after a while. I think most women could relate! Nothing wrong with being nervous, but you can try and communicate it so it won't backfire I really don't think you did anything wrong. I have used "I don't feel a spark" to avoid confrontation, but most of the time it was true. Usually it wasn't because of anything the guy did. I have rejected men who frankly, were too good for me. For some reason I just didn't feel attracted to them, even if they were confident, conventionally attractive, educated, smart, funny..... for some reason I tend to fall for guys who are less conventionally attractive. Who knows why.
Miss Spider Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 If you did something red flag she’d be more inclined to tell you because it would give her an easy way out. When people say no spark it usually means it was nothing that you did specifically or that they can pinpoint. I agree with the the others. Analyzing this anymore than you already have is going to do no good. Just move forward. x
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