When and how to ask her about her divorce?

[poppyfields]

So you had a woman who wanted to marry you, who adored you and whom you adored, who was always there for you and vice versa, who you got on extremely well with, but yet you dumped her?   But are now searching for the same thing?

I hope you realize how convoluted that sounds and also suggests you are extremely conflicted about what you truly want.

This will probably go in one ear and out the other like everything I’ve posted, but max breaking up with the woman who wanted to marry you and whom you contend was everything you wanted suggests you have serious commitment issues.

Which is a strong desire for commitment but subconsciously fearing it at the same time 

And once you attain it, running from it.  It’s the classic definition.

You say you don’t know why you broke up with her but I will tell you why – FEAR.  Plain and simple and I can almost guarantee you that as much as you scream you want commitment and marriage, if you actually met another woman who fell hard for you and wanted to marry you, your FEAR would rear its ugly head again and you’d dump her just like you did with the other woman who loved you and wanted to marry you.

Please at least consider this. At the age of 40, with all your struggles, conflicts, confusion etc., I don’t know why you are so averse to counseling; it’s helped many many people struggling with the same issues.

But your call max, it's your life, all the best. 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by poppyfields

[max3732]

44 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

So you had a woman who wanted to marry you, who adored you and whom you adored, who was always there for you and vice versa, who you got on extremely well with, but yet you dumped her?   But are now searching for the same thing?

I hope you realize how convoluted that sounds and also suggests you are extremely conflicted about what you truly want.

This will probably go in one ear and out the other like everything I’ve posted, but max breaking up with the woman who wanted to marry you and whom you contend was everything you wanted suggests you have serious commitment issues.

Which is a strong desire for commitment but subconsciously fearing it at the same time 

And once you attain it, running from it.  It’s the classic definition.

You say you don’t know why you broke up with her but I will tell you why – FEAR.  Plain and simple and I can almost guarantee you that as much as you scream you want commitment and marriage, if you actually met another woman who fell hard for you and wanted to marry you, your FEAR would rear its ugly head again and you’d dump her just like you did with the other woman who loved you and wanted to marry you.

Please at least consider this. At the age of 40, with all your struggles, conflicts, confusion etc., I don’t know why you are so averse to counseling; it’s helped many many people struggling with the same issues.

But your call max, it's your life, all the best. 

 

I know you mean well and I do greatly appreciate the advice you've given, but with the woman that wanted to marry me you couldn't be more wrong. It wasn't fear at all. I was really looking forward to getting married and was so happy I didn't think I'd have to deal with dating anymore. It was that she put a requirement on me to join something and change how I lived as a requirement for marriage. I researched it and tried my best to understand it, but it wasn't for me. I wasn't going to live my whole life in a lie saying I believed something I didn't and changing my life around for something I didn't believe.

My problem was I was so happy with her I didn't break up with her sooner and stopped trying to think I could change to be join what she wanted me to join.

If I met someone like her who didn't put the same restrictions I'd marry her in a heartbeat

[poppyfields]

max, you wrote in an earlier post (the post I read prior to posting my last post) that you didn't know why you broke up with her, you thought it might be different values, but then you said even that didn't make sense since you had shared values. 

Which is why I posted what I did. 

max, I am very familiar with commitment fears and issues and in the majority of cases, these fear are hidden, most people completely unaware of them until a pattern develops. After which a light bulb goes off in their head and they begin to explore further.

So I knew you would reject the notion, which is fine.

You seem so sure of what you're not, convinced you have no internal conflicts or struggles to resolve.

Yet so unsure and at a complete loss as to how to attain what you say you want. 

I find the dichotomy fascinating.

I won't respond anymore and sorry I was unable to help.

Agsin, best to you. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by poppyfields

[max3732]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

max, you wrote in an earlier post (the post I read prior to posting my last post) that you didn't know why you broke up with her, you thought it might be different values, but then you said even that didn't make sense since you had shared values. 

Which is why I posted what I did. 

max, I am very familiar with commitment fears and issues and in the majority of cases, these fear are hidden, most people completely unaware of them until a pattern develops. After which a light bulb goes off in their head and they begin to explore further.

So I knew you would reject the notion, which is fine.

You seem so sure of what you're not, convinced you have no internal conflicts or struggles to resolve.

Yet so unsure and at a complete loss as to how to attain what you say you want. 

I find the dichotomy fascinating.

I won't respond anymore and sorry I was unable to help.

Agsin, best to you. 

I didn't previously say I didn't know why I broke up with her. I said I didn't want to say why specifically and said the closest way I'd explain it was different values. So I just kind of expanded on that in my previous post. Hopefully you understand and respect that I don't want to get into the details here, but that it would be sufficient to say that I know exactly why, what would have been required of me, and that she wanted a husband to commit to something that I couldn't in good faith support. Divulging what she required would be too much detail and I'm basically a private person.

What conflict do you see between being at a complete loss on how to obtain what I want and having no internal conflicts or struggles to resolve?

Please continue to respond if you have ideas or thoughts. I really welcome them.

Just in this particular case I hope you can see that through no fault on your part other than maybe misinterpreting an intentionally cryptic statement from me that the idea that I was afraid to commit was mistaken. 

[Yosemite]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:46 AM, max3732 said:

I remained a virgin since both of us wanted to wait until marriage.

Because of religion or for no particular reason?

I guess I was trying to ask in a round about way why you never made out during the 2 years of the relationship.

You said that you've never touched a breast and never seen a naked woman (outside of porn)...and I'm just wondering how after a year, a year and a half, two years, in a loving relationship, things didn't get hot and heavy with long make-out sessions like the kind teenagers have. Things never got steamy? There was no over-the-sweater action? I've just never really heard of anything like that between two 28 yr olds in a good, healthy relationship headed towards marriage. 

I guess I'm just wondering if you're passionate enough or romantic enough on all these dates you go on. Maybe you kind of have a cold fish vibe (can't think of another way to say it) which is preventing you from getting more second dates.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Yosemite

[chillii]

13 hours ago, max3732 said:

I know you mean well and I do greatly appreciate the advice you've given, but with the woman that wanted to marry me you couldn't be more wrong. It wasn't fear at all. I was really looking forward to getting married and was so happy I didn't think I'd have to deal with dating anymore. It was that she put a requirement on me to join something and change how I lived as a requirement for marriage. I researched it and tried my best to understand it, but it wasn't for me. I wasn't going to live my whole life in a lie saying I believed something I didn't and changing my life around for something I didn't believe.

My problem was I was so happy with her I didn't break up with her sooner and stopped trying to think I could change to be join what she wanted me to join.

If I met someone like her who didn't put the same restrictions I'd marry her in a heartbeat

 

What a shame man , it's ironic isn't it how someone could be so right but yet so wrong.

 

 

 

[poppyfields]

max, these so-called "restrictions," were you aware she had these beliefs when you met her and throughout your relationship? 

I would assume so. 

So it's interesting you wait until the topic of marriage and commitment arises, and then you dump her.  

But you just don't see it, do you. Refuse to see it.  To you, you just haven't met the "right" girl.  I call bs on that cause you did meet the "right" girl according to you.

But you ran from her because of some restrictions, that had fear/anxiety not been driving your ship, you could have and would have worked through, through communication, compromise and love for one another.  Just like other couples do. 

Chilli is right, the irony is astounding.

Become aware of yourself max, stop denying.

Our fears and anxieties about commitment are often hidden and extremely complex, so start digging otherwise you'll be 50 and still posting about how you haven't met the right girl yet. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by poppyfields

[max3732]

13 hours ago, Yosemite said:

Because of religion or for no particular reason?

I guess I was trying to ask in a round about way why you never made out during the 2 years of the relationship.

You said that you've never touched a breast and never seen a naked woman (outside of porn)...and I'm just wondering how after a year, a year and a half, two years, in a loving relationship, things didn't get hot and heavy with long make-out sessions like the kind teenagers have. Things never got steamy? There was no over-the-sweater action? I've just never really heard of anything like that between two 28 yr olds in a good, healthy relationship headed towards marriage. 

I guess I'm just wondering if you're passionate enough or romantic enough on all these dates you go on. Maybe you kind of have a cold fish vibe (can't think of another way to say it) which is preventing you from getting more second dates.

Both kind of religion and it just felt right. I had the idea that having sex with someone was something very special and I wanted to wait and share it with someone I was in love with and wanted to share my life with.

During the 2+ years we did have long make-out sessions, but we remained fully clothed and never touched each others privates or removed any clothing covering them. Probably the closest we came was once we were in our bathing suits and started making out and I picked her up and put her on the bed and was on top of her as we were kissing. 

Not sure if this is too much detail but sometimes when she left I'd be in pain below the waist. Another time I had a release while we were making it and was extremely embarrassed, but didn't say anything and hopefully she didn't notice (I was wearing thick jeans).

Even though I've had those experiences its quite different meeting with someone on a 1st date in public and trying to figure out how to break that touch barrier and whether its ok to kiss her or not. It's also a different feeling with someone I hardly know vs. someone who I thought I was going to marry who I'd known for a while by that point. We were friends 1st before doing any kind of physical contact.

[max3732]

4 hours ago, poppyfields said:

max, these so-called "restrictions," were you aware she had these beliefs when you met her and throughout your relationship? 

I would assume so. 

So it's interesting you wait until the topic of marriage and commitment arises, and then you dump her.  

But you just don't see it, do you. Refuse to see it.  To you, you just haven't met the "right" girl.  I call bs on that cause you did meet the "right" girl according to you.

But you ran from her because of some restrictions, that had fear/anxiety not been driving your ship, you could have and would have worked through, through communication, compromise and love for one another.  Just like other couples do. 

Chilli is right, the irony is astounding.

Become aware of yourself max, stop denying.

Our fears and anxieties about commitment are often hidden and extremely complex, so start digging otherwise you'll be 50 and still posting about how you haven't met the right girl yet. 

No, I wasn't aware of all of the restrictions when we 1st met or throughout our relationship, but as we got closer to marriage I learned more about them and tried my best to try to see if I could change to become what she wanted.

We'd been talking about marriage and commitment for a long time before breaking up. As we got closer she was sharing more and working with me and I was trying learn what was involved and if it was something that I could do. I spent countless hours on it and contemplated all the pros and cons and came to the conclusion it wasn't right for me and I stand by that decision today. 

I was willing to meet her half to 75% of the way, but she needed me to be there 100%. We discussed it all the time and there was no way it was going to work. 

Like I said before I thought (and still think) the world of her, but as far as marriage and raising a family there was no way it was going to work.

[max3732]

8 hours ago, chillii said:

 

What a shame man , it's ironic isn't it how someone could be so right but yet so wrong.

 

 

 

?

[poppyfields]

Okay that’s fair enough max, thanks for clarifying. 

Not sure if you are open to hearing this, you appear pretty set in your ways , but my parting advice for you is get rid of your “lists” and checking off boxes.

I mentioned this before but attraction, love, feelings, emotions are not determined by checking off boxes on some arbitrary list of qualities you seek or don’t seek.  No offense to you, but that is an extremely shallow way of searching for love. 

I know of people, both men and women, who had their “lists” too and ended up falling in love and marrying someone who had none or very few of the qualities on their list!!  That’s because attraction and love are not about any of that.

Also you stated that if you were to find a woman just like the woman who wanted to marry you (minus the restrictions) you’d marry her in a second!

This makes no sense to me because just because another woman might share the same qualities or similar characteristics as your ex, that does NOT mean that you will fall in love with that women, have those same feelings and emotions you felt for your ex (assuming feelings were your driving force and not qualities off some arbitrary list you created).

Falling in love is about the chemistry/energy between you, the emotional and physical connection, the passion, those intangible things that cannot be found on any list. 

Yes shared values are important but they don’t determine what you actually feel about a woman you meet and start to date.  You seem a bit out of touch about that.

I am wondering if the women you meet can sense this in you, your inability to actually connect on an emotional level.  I am not saying this to hurt or insult you max, but that is the sense I am getting from you with your lists and boxes to check off versus just going with the emotions you feel (or don’t feel) when you meet a woman. 

Most women are stirred by their emotions max.  Men who are successful at dating know this, and they know how to connect with a woman on that level.

Just something to consider if you’re open to it.

Good luck. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by poppyfields

[max3732]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Okay that’s fair enough max, thanks for clarifying. 

Not sure if you are open to hearing this, you appear pretty set in your ways , but my parting advice for you is get rid of your “lists” and checking off boxes.

I mentioned this before but attraction, love, feelings, emotions are not determined by checking off boxes on some arbitrary list of qualities you seek or don’t seek.  No offense to you, but that is an extremely shallow way of searching for love. 

I know of people, both men and women, who had their “lists” too and ended up falling in love and marrying someone who had none or very few of the qualities on their list!!  That’s because attraction and love are not about any of that.

Also you stated that if you were to find a woman just like the woman who wanted to marry you (minus the restrictions) you’d marry her in a second!

This makes no sense to me because just because another woman might share the same qualities or similar characteristics as your ex, that does NOT mean that you will fall in love with that women, have those same feelings and emotions you felt for your ex (assuming feelings were your driving force and not qualities off some arbitrary list you created).

Falling in love is about the chemistry/energy between you, the emotional and physical connection, the passion, those intangible things that cannot be found on any list. 

Yes shared values are important but they don’t determine what you actually feel about a woman you meet and start to date.  You seem a bit out of touch about that.

I am wondering if the women you meet can sense this in you, your inability to actually connect on an emotional level.  I am not saying this to hurt or insult you max, but that is the sense I am getting from you with your lists and boxes to check off versus just going with the emotions you feel (or don’t feel) when you meet a woman. 

Most women are stirred by their emotions max.  Men who are successful at dating know this, and they know how to connect with a woman on that level.

Just something to consider if you’re open to it.

Good luck. 

Well I would say I'm set in my ways on some things, but very open to change on others. As I put in my previous post I would definitely get rid of my "lists" if they were extremely restrictive, like she have be into a certain type of movie or like a certain kind of food. What on my list do you think I should get rid of?

No to: smoking, drug use, marijuana, vaping, tattoos, piercings other than ears, existing children, non-white, into open marriages, cursing, extremely overweight, rude to people in general

Yes to: any height, education, most body types kindness, empathy, interesting hobbies, good with children, close to family, travel, restaurants, active, likes animals, same basic values

To me it seems pretty basic. 

I think you're absolutely right about falling in love and it's something I'd like to do. That's why I'm so surprised that I can't even get into a conversation with women on OLD. They see my profile with my advanced degree, activities, traveling, etc and say "there's no chance it would ever work between us" and just ignore me?

As I've mentioned before my main problem now is that I'm not meeting any women! How would they sense that I haven an inability to connect on an emotional level if they don't even talk to me? How do I connect to them on an emotional level to get into a basic conversation? What I've tried so far has failed for the most part so I'm extremely open to ideas

[Miss Spider]

I’m not sure if you already covered this but if you are celibate and waiting for marriage, perhaps you should put that on your profile

[max3732]

2 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I’m not sure if you already covered this but if you are celibate and waiting for marriage, perhaps you should put that on your profile

Obviously that hasn't come up yet, but I'm not sure about waiting for marriage anymore. 

Plus wouldn't that restrict me even more? Isn't the whole idea to expand my search?

[Blind-Sided]

10 hours ago, max3732 said:

Obviously that hasn't come up yet, but I'm not sure about waiting for marriage anymore. 

Plus wouldn't that restrict me even more? Isn't the whole idea to expand my search?

I'm glad to see you are thinking this way now.... "Expanding your search."

I do commend you on holding to your values for this long in your life... but in today's society... the "Virgin" until marriage isn't that big of a deal anymore. Obviously most religions will still express those ideas to young people... but even myself, being married in a Catholic Basilica... it's not like the Priest asked me or my now exW if we were still "Pure."

Now... I'm not saying you should go out and break your celibacy... but go out with someone... and if it feels right... just go with it.

Keep us posted if your expanded search works out.   Oh... and really try to consider the "Kid" situation... and discrete tattoos.

Good luck

Edited June 6, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[Miss Spider]

Oh okay. I didn't know you were flexible on that, Max. I thought it might be something that would attract women who feel the same way to you/your profile. But if it's not firm, leave it out.  That's good.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[max3732]

1 hour ago, Blind-Sided said:

I'm glad to see you are thinking this way now.... "Expanding your search."

I do commend you on holding to your values for this long in your life... but in today's society... the "Virgin" until marriage isn't that big of a deal anymore. Obviously most religions will still express those ideas to young people... but even myself, being married in a Catholic Basilica... it's not like the Priest asked me or my now exW if we were still "Pure."

Now... I'm not saying you should go out and break your celibacy... but go out with someone... and if it feels right... just go with it.

Keep us posted if your expanded search works out.   Oh... and really try to consider the "Kid" situation... and discrete tattoos.

Good luck

Funny you should mention the "kid" situation. I matched with someone yesterday who is beautiful with the same political viewpoint, same favorite TV shows, mentioned the same basic values that I like and seemed great. Tell me if you've heard this one before. We've been chatting and then she changes her profile this morning to add that she has kids and is "open to children". 

Last time this happened I posted about it and got some great responses and someone gave an idea of sending something explaining that I'd be open to friends but am looking to start a family from scratch, but it was put much better. 

Everyone (myself included) says I need more women friends and I'd love to spend time with her and see if maybe she could introduce me to some like minded people. I know she may not go for it, but I'm going to give it a try. 

I was thinking about this with the other woman and I just can't imagine dating someone who has kids. A small tattoo could be removed and maybe if it was when she was a teenager or something it wouldn't be that bad, but with kids I wouldn't know how to handle them. I really want more than anything to be there (or nearby so I don't faint) when our children are born and read to them and do everything to take care of them with my wife.

So the "kid" situation seem to be something that I can't compromise on as far as dating. I'd absolutely love to be friends with her or other people I meet that have kids.

[max3732]

23 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Oh okay. I didn't know you were flexible on that, Max. I thought it might be something that would attract women who feel the same way to you/your profile. But if it's not firm, leave it out.  That's good.

If someone posted on their profile they were looking for that I'd tell them I agree and would go for that. Otherwise like I said it's just never been close to coming up.

I don't know if someone who feels the same way would message me based on putting that in my profile or not. Hopefully I'm not missing out on anyone.

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:54 PM, schlumpy said:

Asking her how long she's been divorced doesn't seem to probing to me. It's possible that it's been a short while considering she posted the info recently. Don't want to be a rebound.

I agree. it

My take: How long = fine. Why did it happen = pretty much on par with asking early in any relationship, "So why did your last relationship break up?" It'll be awkward, a little intrusive and it may not be something you're ready to hear yet anyway, since there will probably be a degree of intensity there and perhaps unwanted details.

Whether a person is divorced or not, you could be getting any one-sided version of a breakup story. You may not learn what you think you need to, and you may learn things you never wanted to.

Over time bits and pieces will probably come out...they grew apart, counseling didn't work or whatever. And also over time it will be more appropriate timing to directly ask. What people above said is right. A person who has never been married could as easily have a past truly horrific partnership experience. 

[balletomane]

20 hours ago, max3732 said:

Funny you should mention the "kid" situation. I matched with someone yesterday who is beautiful with the same political viewpoint, same favorite TV shows, mentioned the same basic values that I like and seemed great. Tell me if you've heard this one before. We've been chatting and then she changes her profile this morning to add that she has kids and is "open to children"...

With kids I wouldn't know how to handle them. I really want more than anything to be there (or nearby so I don't faint) when our children are born and read to them and do everything to take care of them with my wife.

So the "kid" situation seem to be something that I can't compromise on as far as dating. I'd absolutely love to be friends with her or other people I meet that have kids.

I think this is something that you need to rethink, Max. This restriction isn't based on your values, but on lack of confidence in yourself.

Quite a few women in your age bracket will have a child, and of those who don't, some might not want children at all. It's narrowing your options if you refuse to consider single mothers, and it also doesn't make much sense given that having a family is important to you. Just because you weren't present at a child's birth and for their life to date doesn't mean you can't build a bond with them, and your own biological kids won't come with an instruction manual on how to handle them. Parenting is something you'll have to learn either way.

[Blind-Sided]

On 6/6/2020 at 8:23 AM, max3732 said:

Last time this happened I posted about it and got some great responses and someone gave an idea of sending something explaining that I'd be open to friends but am looking to start a family from scratch, but it was put much better. 

Everyone (myself included) says I need more women friends and I'd love to spend time with her and see if maybe she could introduce me to some like minded people. I know she may not go for it, but I'm going to give it a try. 

A small tattoo could be removed and maybe if it was when she was a teenager or something it wouldn't be that bad, but with kids I wouldn't know how to handle them. I really want more than anything to be there (or nearby so I don't faint) when our children are born and read to them and do everything to take care of them with my wife.

Well... you can't expect to "Friend" a woman with a kid on a dating site.  She is there to find a BF.   Even if you do make a friend... you can't ask her to introduce you to her single friends for a VERY long time. 

As far as the tattoo... you can't expect her to want to remove it. That point blank asking someone to change. 

[max3732]

On 6/7/2020 at 4:41 AM, balletomane said:

I think this is something that you need to rethink, Max. This restriction isn't based on your values, but on lack of confidence in yourself.

Quite a few women in your age bracket will have a child, and of those who don't, some might not want children at all. It's narrowing your options if you refuse to consider single mothers, and it also doesn't make much sense given that having a family is important to you. Just because you weren't present at a child's birth and for their life to date doesn't mean you can't build a bond with them, and your own biological kids won't come with an instruction manual on how to handle them. Parenting is something you'll have to learn either way.

That's very true that I will have to learn parenting. It's actually something I've wanted to do for a while now. My hope is that I would grow in my parenting skills as the children grow. I'd really like to teach my kids to read, to read ride a bike, and all those things. With someone already grown it's too late. Having kids already that can talk and everything I don't think is for me. I'd really like to raise them.

[max3732]

18 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Well... you can't expect to "Friend" a woman with a kid on a dating site.  She is there to find a BF.   Even if you do make a friend... you can't ask her to introduce you to her single friends for a VERY long time. 

As far as the tattoo... you can't expect her to want to remove it. That point blank asking someone to change. 

That's true about expectations as far as getting a friend from a dating site, but it worked with one woman already and has failed miserably with a few others.

Removing a tattoo is asking someone to change a mark on their body that they intentionally put there. If I'm not comfortable with it but like her otherwise you don't think it's worth seeing if she'd be willing to change it?

[balletomane]

You would still get to experience all those milestones with your biological kids, though, and raising children is about more than teaching them to talk. You'd still be raising the stepkids and you'd be present for many milestones in their lives too. As for the learning experience, parenting a newborn baby is very different from parenting a toddler or a six-year-old, so you'd still be a beginner at every stage even if it's your own child. Try not to let a rigid idealised image of what parenting should be keep you from what you hope for.

[chillii]

15 hours ago, max3732 said:

That's true about expectations as far as getting a friend from a dating site, but it worked with one woman already and has failed miserably with a few others.

Removing a tattoo is asking someone to change a mark on their body that they intentionally put there. If I'm not comfortable with it but like her otherwise you don't think it's worth seeing if she'd be willing to change it?

 

 

l became very good friends with someone l met on a date site. We use to stay over, sep rooms of course , sit up talking about our wows and getting drunk all night , helped each other out many times .

However , in the end it did blow up. One night drunk she tried to get m into bed but l was obviously never into her in more than friends. lt went all weird after that night and soon after she disappeared. But l do agree usually mostly they aren't looking for friends although on mine a few did even say on their profile they'd like to make new friends.