When and how to ask her about her divorce?

[max3732]

34 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

It sounds like your bio/love clock is ticking because of your age. You feel like it’s time for you to have already found someone, being married  to, and perhaps have a family(?). A lot of people get that way. It sounds antithetical, but the fact that you want it so much may be the reason you are struggling. It’s causing a lot of nervous tension and desperation for you. People can usually sense that.. . Also, since you have resorted to the OLD route, it means that your options irl haven’t been maximized. OLD should really be used as a supplement/last resort imo. It seems like a great thing because of the convenience and seeming to be able to order exactly what you want, but it has its own problems off the bay and some that aren’t apparent until much later.  I think a lot of people would be better off trying meeting someone another way. 

It's been clicking for years. When I was 30 a lot of my friends were married and I'd been trying to do that for a while. Now it's nearly 10 years later and I'm still alone. What's the point of being the most awesome guy in the world if I've got no one special to share my life with? The big 40 is just another huge milestone of disappointment for where I wanted to be in life. When I was 30 I really thought I'd have a great wife and kids to spend time with.

My parents are even doing estate planning and I'm talking with the attorneys about the fact that I don't have any kids and they're asking why not and when I'll have them. To be honest I feel like a complete loser that I send out message after message on app after app and can't even get on the phone with someone I'm interested with. 

Aside from OLD I don't know what else to do. Every activity I try is men or married/much older women or otherwise women I'm not interested in.

I'm trying virtual speed dating and one woman said she was interested in me and I emailed and never heard back. At least with that I get to talk to actual people instead of just sending endless messages into the abyss of OLD. Plus I'm so sick of swiping past all these scammers with OLD.

In my last few dates IRL I got my 1st kiss in nearly 10 years and actually went out 4 or 5 times, then met someone else and kissed her/held hands and went out a few times. I work from home and so don't meet anyone there. The only place would be if I bump into someone at the grocery store or on the street and now I can't even do that with this virus. Probably the only place I've seen attractive women IRL lately are ones jogging, but what am I supposed to do? Jump out of the car and run up to them and tell them I find them attractive?

I've spent hours watching these dating videos about how to flirt, read signals, where and what to touch, all the stuff and nothing helps.

I just can't figure out what to do to meet the women I want anywhere.

[Miss Spider]

I completely understand. But you are not a loser! You are a successful guy who just happens to have not found the right person yet. Some people take longer than others. Just a fact. 
 

You know where I’ve noticed the healthiest relationships I know, including my parents, met? Through friends/mutual friends. Being out and about doing the same things they like with the same circles. Do you have a big social circle? If you’re introverted that can be harder, but you can still have a wide net of “people you know”. People have friends and their friends have friends. Those are all potential love matches. Plus, you know their cred  more and usually have more in common. Maybe consider new hobbies you can take on which you can meet people, have fun, and also give you an opener and more stuff to talk about via shared interest. 
 

And Im not going to lie and say it’s easy for guys. Guys get rejected all the time from showing interest and women get rejected by the guy not showing interest. One is more of an active/hurtful rejection than the other. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Miss Spider]

I wanted to add that a lot corona v rules have started to lift in my area. More people are going out and seem to be even more friendly towards each other than before. More approaching and receptive to approach. It’s really cool to see. I think people are just more appreciative of that person-to-person contact than before. Just something worth noting. 

[rjc149]

30 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Almost all my friends are guys and now almost all of them are married.

...and you'll be their shoulder to cry on at the bar when their wives are divorcing them. I'd say in about the next 5-10 years, you can smugly sip your beer as you listen to sob story after sob story on why you need to be really f--king careful with who you marry these days, if you've determined that entering a legal contract to invest half of your net worth into a rapidly depreciating asset is a prudent decision. 

Back to your question on meeting women -- do you live in an urban area? You mentioned you work from home, so maybe you could move to a more lively downtown area? Coffee shops, bookstores, cafes, bars, lounges -- all great places to meet women and hone your attraction skills. 

[Miss Spider]

Haha that’s a pretty pessimistic perspective you’ve got there, rjc. I don’t think the numbers look that bad. Especially if max’s friends aren’t 18 year old high school drop outs from Alabama 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[rjc149]

4 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Haha that’s a pretty pessimistic perspective you’ve got there, rjc. I don’t think the numbers look that bad. Especially if max’s friends aren’t 18 year old high school drop outs from Alabama 

Eh the numbers don't look too great either lol. And I don't think Max is much better with the 30-something career women who are already set in their ways and less willing to compromise on joint life decisions, especially once children enter the picture. I've seen many women become totally insufferable once they had children. And I wasn't even married to them. 

But you're right, I am a bit pessimistic. Mainly because the majority of marriages in my social sphere are already done, and most of my friends grew up with divorced parents. Happily married couples were, and are, noteworthy around here. 

[balletomane]

It sounds as if the main stumbling block is that you've never had female friends or socialised much with women in a non-romantic context. I suspect this will be contributing to your nerves in a big way. I was relatively late to the dating scene, but growing up I'd had a mixture of friends of both genders and two of my closest high school friends were boys. Of course I still felt nervous about going on dates, but I'd had enough experience of talking to guys in a non-romantic context for me not to get that panicked needle-in-a-haystack feeling you describe.

I think it would really help you if you had a few women friends. As you say, not every woman you meet through an activity is going to be someone you want to date or marry, but at this stage, she doesn't have to be. You need to become more relaxed and at your ease around women and the best way to do that is in non-romantic settings where you don't feel under the same pressure to attract someone. It's a massive leap from 'barely having interacted with women socially' to 'looking for someone to marry' and I think you need the in-between stage just to help you feel more confident and comfortable.

[rjc149]

Max, greater question to ask yourself -- are you seeking connection and companionship? Or do you want a marriage specifically with all its trappings?

Because you can have one without the other. 

[Miss Spider]

Yea... they’re not that great either.  But considering how many people get married after knowing each other a few months and having compatible star signs... Better than I expect I guess 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[rjc149]

... then again, my parents dated for 3 months before getting engaged. Still married 36 years later. 

Being Catholic helps. 

[max3732]

1 hour ago, balletomane said:

It sounds as if the main stumbling block is that you've never had female friends or socialised much with women in a non-romantic context. I suspect this will be contributing to your nerves in a big way. I was relatively late to the dating scene, but growing up I'd had a mixture of friends of both genders and two of my closest high school friends were boys. Of course I still felt nervous about going on dates, but I'd had enough experience of talking to guys in a non-romantic context for me not to get that panicked needle-in-a-haystack feeling you describe.

I think it would really help you if you had a few women friends. As you say, not every woman you meet through an activity is going to be someone you want to date or marry, but at this stage, she doesn't have to be. You need to become more relaxed and at your ease around women and the best way to do that is in non-romantic settings where you don't feel under the same pressure to attract someone. It's a massive leap from 'barely having interacted with women socially' to 'looking for someone to marry' and I think you need the in-between stage just to help you feel more confident and comfortable.

I think you're right about that. Growing up I only socialized with guys. I was playing sports, video games, and going to different activities and it was all with guys. My schools were all co-ed, but I never socialized or did anything with girls until high school. When I was in 5th grade this girl broke my best friend's heart and made fun of him in front of everyone and that kind of turned me off to the idea of dating and girl's in general then.

I didn't socialize at all with any women until high school and then it was also with a group with 2 women and like 5 guys. Undergrad in college I didn't socialize with any (got very sick and couldn't do much socializing) so I didn't really do anything until I tried dating and looking towards marriage in my mid to late 20's. I had my 1st real girlfriend in grad school about 10 years ag and we dated for 2+ years. After that it's just been a struggle to meet people not working in an office and not being in school and I've just be bouncing around 1st or 2nd dates until last year as I mentioned previously. 

So maybe female friends around my age would be good. Once they get married though their husbands probably don't want them hanging around a single guy.  

[max3732]

2 hours ago, rjc149 said:

Max, greater question to ask yourself -- are you seeking connection and companionship? Or do you want a marriage specifically with all its trappings?

Because you can have one without the other. 

Not sure what you mean by that. I'd like to come home to a woman and our children and be able to go on trips and enjoy life with them.

[Ami1uwant]

10 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Not sure what you mean by that. I'd like to come home to a woman and our children and be able to go on trips and enjoy life with them.

 

 

I think you sre trying to look at things thst really don’t matter.

 

i think you are focusing purely on looks first vs something develop in dating.

 

why did that 2 yr relationship happen? Why did it end? Did you not want marriage and dhe did?  What happen in the one person you had 5 dates with?

 

 

[rjc149]

12 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Not sure what you mean by that. I'd like to come home to a woman and our children and be able to go on trips and enjoy life with them.

Well, I know what you mean. I too want something like that. Someday. Maybe. 

I think you still need to focus less on finding a wife, and focus more on having fun dates, getting to know a few different women, giving yourself some options, and just letting things happen. When you try to force a connection, women see this as desperate and controlling, and it really turns them off.

Don't put a time constraint on this. You're a guy, you have more time. You don't have a ticking clock. Take your time. 

[max3732]

1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said:

 

 

I think you sre trying to look at things thst really don’t matter.

 

i think you are focusing purely on looks first vs something develop in dating.

 

why did that 2 yr relationship happen? Why did it end? Did you not want marriage and dhe did?  What happen in the one person you had 5 dates with?

 

 

The 2yr relationship happened because I was in grad school with a bunch of single women and organized activities for singles in the area. There were so many amazing women I wish I could have dated them all. The one I ended up dating actually came up to me and after we worked together on some projects she said she was impressed by how kind and smart I am and we started spending more time together and started dating. Don't really want to put specifically why it ended, but it was something she wanted me to change that I didn't want to change . Both of us wanted marriage. In hindsight even though I should have met more women before dating her. She was so kind and gave me for a couple years the feeling I'd always wanted and what I'm after again where we both care about each other.

The one I had 5 dates with went to a bunch of activities and like I said she was the 1st one I kissed since the one in grad school. I kissed her at the end of the 2nd or 3rd date. I thought she was really cute and I was relaxed and myself around her. The main problems were she was the opposite political side as me and we didn't have much in common as far as common interests.

The first I notice is looks, but everything else I'm looking for in dating has to do with what I think would make a good quality of life for us. 

[Ami1uwant]

16 hours ago, max3732 said:

The 2yr relationship happened because I was in grad school with a bunch of single women and organized activities for singles in the area. There were so many amazing women I wish I could have dated them all. The one I ended up dating actually came up to me and after we worked together on some projects she said she was impressed by how kind and smart I am and we started spending more time together and started dating. Don't really want to put specifically why it ended, but it was something she wanted me to change that I didn't want to change . Both of us wanted marriage. In hindsight even though I should have met more women before dating her. She was so kind and gave me for a couple years the feeling I'd always wanted and what I'm after again where we both care about each other.

The one I had 5 dates with went to a bunch of activities and like I said she was the 1st one I kissed since the one in grad school. I kissed her at the end of the 2nd or 3rd date. I thought she was really cute and I was relaxed and myself around her. The main problems were she was the opposite political side as me and we didn't have much in common as far as common interests.

The first I notice is looks, but everything else I'm looking for in dating has to do with what I think would make a good quality of life for us. 

Im not asking for details in it. In retrospect with that grad student...was it something small or something to the core of who you are.  Core things are  changing religion, giving up an interest you love, becoming vegetarian. 

For me it’s more important yo have the same values and beliefs and share some interests ehere you both enjoy doing.

 

i have met a few women I dated over the years that they were too different that I didn’t pursue dating them.  Hey were attractive and they were nice people.

 

i also understand how you met the grad student.  In college and into my 20s  I met peop,e bygradually knowing them then dating them.  I was not successful in those meeting at a bar  and getting their number that night.  That way is much harder now.  I don’t have a problem dating someone I work with as long as they aren’t part of day to day working.  For example meeting someone in a different office you don’t run into but  met them because you were both assigned to a large project or you see someone at the work cafeteria where they work in legal so you never seen thrn but you do lunch at the same time so you got to talking and knowing each other.

 

 

 

[max3732]

1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said:

Im not asking for details in it. In retrospect with that grad student...was it something small or something to the core of who you are.  Core things are  changing religion, giving up an interest you love, becoming vegetarian. 

For me it’s more important yo have the same values and beliefs and share some interests ehere you both enjoy doing.

 

i have met a few women I dated over the years that they were too different that I didn’t pursue dating them.  Hey were attractive and they were nice people.

 

i also understand how you met the grad student.  In college and into my 20s  I met peop,e bygradually knowing them then dating them.  I was not successful in those meeting at a bar  and getting their number that night.  That way is much harder now.  I don’t have a problem dating someone I work with as long as they aren’t part of day to day working.  For example meeting someone in a different office you don’t run into but  met them because you were both assigned to a large project or you see someone at the work cafeteria where they work in legal so you never seen thrn but you do lunch at the same time so you got to talking and knowing each other.

 

 

 

Yes, the reason I didn't marry her was something that went to the core of who I am. Otherwise I would have asked her to marry me.

My problem now is I can't find anyone with the same values and beliefs. In school or an office where you run into someone it's much easier to meet people. Plus in grad school nearly everyone I met was in school and I could wonder around campus and find all kinds of interesting clubs and activities.

What is there for a nearly 40 year old man to do to meet single women? 

[snowcones]

On 5/28/2020 at 10:52 AM, max3732 said:

 It just seems like dating someone divorced adds a lot more questions.

It does.  Haha

I am divorced myself, and I also care about why they got divorced.  I just ask straight out what happened.  I think you should too.  Be prepared to get some lies though.  People have a tendency to paint themselves in an overly-favorable light and leave out pertinent details.  Those you will have to decipher through on your own during getting to know them and figure out what is truth and what is false.

If you think no reason is a good reason to divorce that is your right too, and you probably should not even date divorcees. 

PS - it also irritates me when people put that their are "single" instead of "divorced", even when the option to put divorced is there.

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

Yes, the reason I didn't marry her was something that went to the core of who I am. Otherwise I would have asked her to marry me.

My problem now is I can't find anyone with the same values and beliefs. In school or an office where you run into someone it's much easier to meet people. Plus in grad school nearly everyone I met was in school and I could wonder around campus and find all kinds of interesting clubs and activities.

What is there for a nearly 40 year old man to do to meet single women? 

I had a coworker share a story once of a relationship she had thst she rejected marriage in even though things were good because she felt something was missing.  I asked her do you have regrets and see she’d yes.

 

if you live in a high pedestrian area where people live and work and you go out in your neighborhood you might be able to meet people.  The problem is you can’t tell if they are single.

if  you live in suburbs that are more home and car driven it’s much harder because the only times are random unless you stay on a pattern like going to the supermarket every Sunday morning at 11.

other ways are through volunteer organizations , social groups, sports clubs, or church.

If you live in an apartment/ condo you could socially interact with others.

i have had a lot of experience with OLD. But things have changed in the last few years where you have so many non serious users. Back in the mid 200s more serious people were actually looking for relationships. It creates an environment somewhat like college where most are single.

 

 

 

 

[snowcones]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

My problem now is I can't find anyone with the same values and beliefs.

To be fair, I just listened to a TED talk that said that it's one of the hardest things ever (for EVERYONE) to find someone compatible.  Assuming one is actually looking out for compatibility (which many people DON'T).  The reason why it's so hard is because we as humans are very nuanced and the older you get the more you become familiar with your particular nuances and how they will best mesh with someone else's and what would be the best situation to be in to make you happy.  It's almost as special and individualized as a fingerprint.   It's extremely hard and you're not alone.  Most people end up settling for someone who is not so compatible, and if they are lucky enough to marry a nice and generous person, they will at least attempt to mold to each other needs, in order to create harmony.

Edited May 30, 2020 by snowcones

[Miss Spider]

4 hours ago, snowcones said:

To be fair, I just listened to a TED talk that said that it's one of the hardest things ever (for EVERYONE) to find someone compatible.  Assuming one is actually looking out for compatibility (which many people DON'T).  The reason why it's so hard is because we as humans are very nuanced and the older you get the more you become familiar with your particular nuances and how they will best mesh with someone else's and what would be the best situation to be in to make you happy.  It's almost as special and individualized as a fingerprint.   It's extremely hard and you're not alone.  Most people end up settling for someone who is not so compatible, and if they are lucky enough to marry a nice and generous person, they will at least attempt to mold to each other needs, in order to create harmony.

snow cones. mind sharing who the speaker was so I can find that talk?

[snowcones]

2 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

snow cones. mind sharing who the speaker was so I can find that talk?

 Oh lord.... you know my brain is old....

Give me a minute to remember.

[max3732]

16 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

I had a coworker share a story once of a relationship she had thst she rejected marriage in even though things were good because she felt something was missing.  I asked her do you have regrets and see she’d yes.

 

if you live in a high pedestrian area where people live and work and you go out in your neighborhood you might be able to meet people.  The problem is you can’t tell if they are single.

if  you live in suburbs that are more home and car driven it’s much harder because the only times are random unless you stay on a pattern like going to the supermarket every Sunday morning at 11.

other ways are through volunteer organizations , social groups, sports clubs, or church.

If you live in an apartment/ condo you could socially interact with others.

i have had a lot of experience with OLD. But things have changed in the last few years where you have so many non serious users. Back in the mid 200s more serious people were actually looking for relationships. It creates an environment somewhat like college where most are single.

 

 

 

 

I live in the suburbs about 20 minutes from a minor city. I'm close to a popular biking/walking path where I'll often see attractive women, but like I mentioned before I don't know how to approach someone jogging by or biking in front or the opposite direction. 

What organizations, social groups, sports clubs, or church would have white single women in their 30s? I tried going to a church and all the women around my age were already married. I tried taking a photography class as well as a cooking class and it was all older married women. I play in a sports league that's all men and tried doing a mixed league and it was the same thing... older married women.

My only possible link is I met someone with OLD that I wasn't interested in dating, but she plays tennis too and has invited me to mixed doubles and to play singles with her. So maybe she has a friend that might be single? I can't don't like the idea of using her to meet someone else.

When I go on Tinder it's like 75% "are you a lonely guy looking for an attractive women. Message me on snapchat" or "I keep all my private photos on ... email me at xyz..," just scam after scam. Even Hinge has had a lot of prostitutes lately.

Plus on a lot of these apps there are these women with nose rings, purple hair, tattoos all over, that smoke cigarettes or use marijuana, or are on drugs. Not exactly the pillars of society here. With Bumble I see a lot of great women, but I swipe right and get nothing. Both women I went on multiple dates recently I met on Bumble but I've been striking out there lately. I don't know if there are fake or old profiles or what.

I was going to spend the money on a professional matchmaker, but I've read that a lot of those are scams.

[snowcones]

15 hours ago, snowcones said:

 Oh lord.... you know my brain is old....

Give me a minute to remember.

Cookies, I can not remember exactly where I saw it.   I watch so much relationship-related stuff, I feel like it was something Esther Perel said somehwere.

[Miss Spider]

Hahaha. It's totally cool. I'll find it. Thanks And yeah, I'm obsessed with TED talks relationship and behavioral psychology stuff...really just all of it. Very insightful

Edited May 31, 2020 by Cookiesandough