When and how to ask her about her divorce?

[max3732]

Something I used to have as a deal breaker was that I wanted someone who has never been married, but I'm kind of leaning 75% towards requiring that. I'm starting to think that it might still be possible depending on why she got divorced. 

The reason I'm asking now is that someone messaged me on Match and we exchanged a few messages and then she updated her profile and put she has been divorced. When I first checked it she had it blank.

Our conversation's been going pretty well, but I'd like to ask her about it at some point. If she has a crazy ex out there or she got divorced because her husband caught her cheating on him or something like that I'd like to know. It just seems like dating someone divorced adds a lot more questions.

[Calmandfocused]

Lots of people who haven’t been married have a “crazy ex out there”. Never being married does not mean that someone has not had any negative relationship experiences (eg cheating). Infact this is probably one of the many reasons why they have never been married. 
 

How old are you op and what age range women are you looking for? 
 

I don’t think any woman (previously married or not) should be expected to disclose her past relationships to you just so you can vet her for relationship suitability. Like most things people disclose when they get to know and trust someone. In the early dating stages you are a stranger to her. 
 

There are many reasons why relationships end including breakdown of marriages. It doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with her or that she’s wrong for you.  
 

Open your horizons and keep an open mind is my advice. 

[mortensorchid]

I think it would be alright to ask the person about the divorce at some point.  It's part of the past, after all, and it would be foolish if not downright nieve to think that the person you are meeting has not had some sort of a past.  However, you should approach it with a bit of caution ...

Firstly, you have not met this person face to face yet.  They included the information on their dating profile because it is, after all, a fact.  However, there are just as many people who have been married once before but they did not include that information on their profiles either.  I would wait to meet this person face to face, then if you decide to see this person again and see potential, you can ask about it.  Just not too many probing questions.  

Second, how old are you and how old is this woman?  If you are both in your 40s, I would expect it more.  If you are both in your 20s?  Well ... Years ago a childhood friend of mine married at age 27 to a woman who was also 27 - and this was her 3rd marriage.  I asked him later how this is possible.  He told me that her first marriage was right out of high school, they were young and it didn't work out.  The second marriage was Florence Nightingale Synsdrome - the caregiver is in love with the patient (his wife); then in some cases the patient gets better then the caregiver doesn't love them anymore.  Then she married my childhood friend.  Guess what?  He LIED.  She was married twice before, but they ended because she cheated on them and she cheated on everyone else in between, including him.  Seven years later they divorced, and I think she is still married to her lover who is husband #4, but I wonder when that will happen.

Third, once you know?  Then just accept it. 

[Blind-Sided]

2 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Lots of people who haven’t been married have a “crazy ex out there”. Never being married does not mean that someone has not had any negative relationship experiences (eg cheating). Infact this is probably one of the many reasons why they have never been married. 

.....

I don’t think any woman (previously married or not) should be expected to disclose her past relationships to you just so you can vet her for relationship suitability. Like most things people disclose when they get to know and trust someone. In the early dating stages you are a stranger to her. 

Bingo !!!

Max... we have talked about this already... You have an issue with building a potential future with someone you haven't even met yet. You are at the age where people may have been married... but as above... just because they haven't been doesn't mean they don't have a "Crazy EX" out there.   AND... if you are looking at a +30 yo person... the real question is... "Why haven't they been married?"  After my D... I met several girls who had never been married... but they all had a little crazy written on them.  One of the girls I thought I was going to meet I decided against.  As time went on... and I talked more to one of her friends... I found out she was a little on promiscuous side.  TO me... that's more of a problem (potential cheating) than someone who was married.

Just because a marriage failed doesn't mean they are a bad person.

Now... as far as when can you ask.... First of all... it's none of your business until a relationship is established.  SO... until you go out on a few proper "Face to Face" dates... don't even ask.  AND... even then... you should wait until they talk about it.  But here again... you will only get one side of the story. So, keep that in mind.  You may hear from her... "My husband cheated on me"... but what she didn't say was... "I cheated on him years ago."   OR... "My husband was abusive" but in reality, it was just her justifications to leave.   OR.... "My husband never touched me any more, and I needed physical love".  But what she left out was... "I was 50 Lbs heavier and I never made myself up for him anymore."

Just some food for thought.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[kendahke]

3 hours ago, max3732 said:

someone messaged me on Match and we exchanged a few messages

So this is at the most a few weeks along...

I think it's too soon to be asking her that.  You haven't even gone out on a date yet and her business is her business right now.  If it's too much for you, stop corresponding with her and wait out the perfect woman to appear on Match.

Do you have "divorce is a deal breaker for me" on your profile? Maybe the reason why you don't put that on your profile is the same reason why she didn't put she was divorced on her profile.

Edited May 28, 2020 by kendahke

[max3732]

20 minutes ago, kendahke said:

So this is at the most a few weeks along...

I think it's too soon to be asking her that.  You haven't even gone out on a date yet and her business is her business right now.  If it's too much for you, stop corresponding with her and wait out the perfect woman to appear on Match.

Do you have "divorce is a deal breaker for me" on your profile? Maybe the reason why you don't put that on your profile is the same reason why she didn't put she was divorced on her profile.

I don't have any deal breakers on my profile, but I do screen by them. 

As I said I would prefer someone never married, but I'm open to someone divorced depending on the reason.

The reason I don't list any deal breakers is that I don't want to sound negative on the profile and have a long list of reasons to not message me. It would be something like this... don't message me if you have children, smoke, have tattoos, are extremely overweight, have mental problems, are a murderer or potential murderer, gold digger, have no sense of humor, don't speak english, hate men, are extremely stupid, have no hobbies or interests, are shallow, etc.

To me having that on my profile would turn a lot of women off even if the deal breakers don't apply to them.

[max3732]

2 hours ago, mortensorchid said:

I think it would be alright to ask the person about the divorce at some point.  It's part of the past, after all, and it would be foolish if not downright nieve to think that the person you are meeting has not had some sort of a past.  However, you should approach it with a bit of caution ...

Firstly, you have not met this person face to face yet.  They included the information on their dating profile because it is, after all, a fact.  However, there are just as many people who have been married once before but they did not include that information on their profiles either.  I would wait to meet this person face to face, then if you decide to see this person again and see potential, you can ask about it.  Just not too many probing questions.  

Second, how old are you and how old is this woman?  If you are both in your 40s, I would expect it more.  If you are both in your 20s?  Well ... Years ago a childhood friend of mine married at age 27 to a woman who was also 27 - and this was her 3rd marriage.  I asked him later how this is possible.  He told me that her first marriage was right out of high school, they were young and it didn't work out.  The second marriage was Florence Nightingale Synsdrome - the caregiver is in love with the patient (his wife); then in some cases the patient gets better then the caregiver doesn't love them anymore.  Then she married my childhood friend.  Guess what?  He LIED.  She was married twice before, but they ended because she cheated on them and she cheated on everyone else in between, including him.  Seven years later they divorced, and I think she is still married to her lover who is husband #4, but I wonder when that will happen.

Third, once you know?  Then just accept it. 

She's in her mid 30s and I'm very closet to 40. I'll definitely hold off on asking any questions about it. 

[smackie9]

Doesn't matter if they were married or common-law, a committed relationship is a relationship. A divorce or a breakup can end for those reasons and more. Dude dating is like playing Russian roulette...you don't know what you are going to get, It can turn out bad, it can turn out good....people will lie, some will be honest...no guarantees my friend.

Avoiding people who are divorce doesn't decrease your chances of being cheated on...gosh.

Edited May 28, 2020 by smackie9

[kendahke]

8 minutes ago, max3732 said:

To me having that on my profile would turn a lot of women off even if the deal breakers don't apply to them.

and that's probably the same reason why she initially didn't have that on her profile... because at one time, that did turn you off, and it still does to some extent, but you're now seeing that the older one gets, the less idealistic they can afford to be if they want to be in a relationship.

[rjc149]

You know she's been divorced, that's the pertinent information that you need to know at this stage. 

Divorces usually happen because the relationship broke down-- incompatibility, irreconcilable differences, growth in opposite directions, lack of connection, etc. 70% of divorces are initiated by women, and 66% of divorced women will divorce their 2nd husbands, so if you're going to marry a divorced woman, the odds that she will file for a divorce against you too are quite good.  When a woman has undergone the trials of divorce the 1st time, the 2nd time isn't nearly as daunting. The path has already been blazed.

Let's set aside the small minority of divorces that result from physical abuse or self-destructive behavior like substance or gambling addiction. If you ask a woman why her marriage broke down, she will be telling her side of the story. You will hear the "he didn't appreciate me" or "he was controlling and manipulative" or "he was emotionally abusive" or "he left his skid-marked tighty whiteys everywhere" or whatever. I'm not saying it's BS, but I'm saying you should take into account that her ex husband has his equally valid side of the story you won't hear, with some very important information about how his ex wife behaves in relationships that you will be discovering for yourself. 

So, again, the reason why she got divorced is not pertinent information. It will become known at the appropriate time, which is a long time from now. 

What you need to know is that she's been divorced, she's going to be very raw emotionally for a while, and the statistical probability of your marriage to her being successful, should that happen, are low to the point where if this were finance, no profitable investor would have that kind of risk tolerance. 

 

[Gr8fuln2020]

Eh, no. There is certain information that should come out early in a relationship and that is her marital status. With some responses here, would it be okay for me to withhold information that I am separated, not divorced? That kind of senseless deception is completely unnecessary and inexplicable. It is absolutely germane to any relationship to know what one's past relationship/status has been. I just don't see how anyone would think it was okay to withhold this information. 

As per the woman changing her status, I am certain she forgot to include it. There is no way she could keep that a secret for long and for what purpose? It may take some time, not long, but you have every right to know what you are getting yourself into. She can choose not to share, but then, you need to choose to walk away if she is not being transparent.

I always ask about past divorces to get an idea of what kind of relationship exists, if any. I also share my experiences with exes. Greater detail comes later, but a preliminary understanding is important to make decisions moving forward.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020

[poppyfields]

Oh my gosh, @ max, dealbreakers such as "don't be stupid" "doesn't have a sense of humor" and my fav "hates men," lol,  those things are subjective (what you find not funny or stupid, another man might) etc.

Hates men? I know of no woman who would ever admit to that, even to herself!  

Feelings and emotions don't work that way -  checking boxes off a damn list! 

Max, you are never gonna connect with any woman having that mindset. 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

Gr8, I think you misunderstood. Or maybe I did?

No one suggested people withhold marital status like being divorced, only probing into why, before ever even meeting or during first couples of dates.

Allow for a connection first and for each of you to feel comfortable opening up and disclosing personal and sensitive info about yourself.   

That's all.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by poppyfields

[Gr8fuln2020]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Gr8, I think you misunderstood. Or maybe I did?

No one suggested people withhold marital status like being divorced, only probing into why, before ever even meeting or during first couples of dates.

Allow for a connection first and for each of you to feel comfortable opening up and disclosing personal and sensitive info about yourself.   

That's all.

I understand. Taking some time to get to know someone before getting into details...understood. 

[max3732]

34 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Oh my gosh, @ max, dealbreakers such as "don't be stupid" "doesn't have a sense of humor" and my fav "hates men," lol,  those things are subjective (what you find not funny or stupid, another man might) etc.

Hates men? I know of no woman who would ever admit to that, even to herself!  

Feelings and emotions don't work that way -  checking boxes off a damn list! 

Max, you are never gonna connect with any woman having that mindset. 

 

I've gone out with women who meet all those criteria. The humor one you're right is subjective. Something more appropriate would be "doesn't share my sense of humor".

There were 2 occasions where I went out with a woman who seemed to hate men. Both said that almost all problems in society are caused by men, that by nature men are violent and evil and that women are very peaceful and kind. 

[schlumpy]

Asking her how long she's been divorced doesn't seem to probing to me. It's possible that it's been a short while considering she posted the info recently. Don't want to be a rebound.

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Asking her how long she's been divorced doesn't seem to probing to me. It's possible that it's been a short while considering she posted the info recently. Don't want to be a rebound.

Agree, I was referring to asking why, like she is actually gonna admit to a stranger her husband cheated on her or beat the * crap out of her on a regular basis. Which does happen. 

Well, I guess some women would admit.

I dunno for me, it doesn't matter, we all or most of us have skeletons.  

If I rejected men based on their  mistakes from the past, or their history, I'd be single for the rest of my life!  

To me what's important is that he's learned from it, grown and evolved. 

As have I from my mistakes.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by poppyfields

[rjc149]

15 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Both said that almost all problems in society are caused by men, that by nature men are violent and evil and that women are very peaceful and kind. 

A grown woman saying this to you on a date is one of 2 things:

1. Not interested in you and thus not giving a sh-t what she says or how you'll react, and just having some fun with you, or

2. A latent lesbian. 

I for one have sometimes employed #1 as a tactic on a date I knew wasn't going anywhere, or with a girl I wasn't interested in. Just start saying outrageous, offensive, or weird sh-t and hoping she gets turned off and leaves me alone at the bar. Instead of bruising her ego and telling her I'm not interested, she walks away with her nose turned up, and I don't care because I'll never see her again and I've still got an open bar tab. 

 

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

A grown woman saying this to you on a date is one of 2 things:

1. Not interested in you and thus not giving a sh-t what she says or how you'll react, and just having some fun with you, or

2. A latent lesbian. 

I for one have sometimes employed #1 as a tactic on a date I knew wasn't going anywhere, or with a girl I wasn't interested in. Just start saying outrageous, offensive, or weird sh-t and hoping she gets turned off and leaves me alone at the bar. Instead of bruising her ego and telling her I'm not interested, she walks away with her nose turned up, and I don't care because I'll never see her again and I've still got an open bar tab. 

 

Interesting strategy!   That is so kind of you, wanting to spare her feelings.  

I mean it!! 

[Gr8fuln2020]

22 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Asking her how long she's been divorced doesn't seem to probing to me. It's possible that it's been a short while considering she posted the info recently. Don't want to be a rebound.

I ask this within the first few communications. Never had anyone balk. My understanding is that the issue is asking more probing questions so early in the relationship. I could be wrong. 

[max3732]

31 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

A grown woman saying this to you on a date is one of 2 things:

1. Not interested in you and thus not giving a sh-t what she says or how you'll react, and just having some fun with you, or

2. A latent lesbian. 

I for one have sometimes employed #1 as a tactic on a date I knew wasn't going anywhere, or with a girl I wasn't interested in. Just start saying outrageous, offensive, or weird sh-t and hoping she gets turned off and leaves me alone at the bar. Instead of bruising her ego and telling her I'm not interested, she walks away with her nose turned up, and I don't care because I'll never see her again and I've still got an open bar tab. 

 

The women were in their mid 20's. I think she was asking me if I was religious and then she said she doesn't like religion because the books were written by men to control women and then went on some kind of rant about how evil men are and how unfairly women are treated around the world by men. After listening for a while I just changed the topic and we ended up spending another hour or so together before I dropped her off. So I don't think it was trying to get rid of me or that she's a lesbian. Some women are just fed garbage that corrupts their minds and I'm not a phycologist that's going to put them back together.

With the other one I found out her father left her and her mother when she was really young and he used to get very violent and abusive. She called him by his 1st name and clearly had issues with him that I think she took out on men in general.

 

 

[max3732]

24 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

I ask this within the first few communications. Never had anyone balk. My understanding is that the issue is asking more probing questions so early in the relationship. I could be wrong. 

Would just ask something like "noticed in your profile that you're divorced. Have you been divorced for a while" be ok early?

[rjc149]

1 minute ago, max3732 said:

Would just ask something like "noticed in your profile that you're divorced. Have you been divorced for a while" be ok early?

I wouldn't ask. You know she's divorced. There's a 90% likelihood she will bring it up unasked and unprovoked within the first 3 dates. She'll mention her ex, or tell some story or anecdote about when she was married etc. 

Prying for details on her divorce before there is any real rapport or familiarity demonstrates

1. low social IQ, which conveys lower status and is generally unattractive to women, and  

2. needy and possibly controlling behavior down the line -- you're already focusing on the heavy stuff, trying to discuss relationships, focusing on her eligibility for a relationship and how you can lock her down, instead of just having fun, and letting a connection grow organically. 

 

[kendahke]

1 hour ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

would it be okay for me to withhold information that I am separated, not divorced?

Our argument is OP thinking he's entitled to know the why's of her divorce at less than a month with a few messages exchanged. All he needs to know right now is that she's divorced. The rest, should she decide she wants to pursue further, will be revealed then.

[Gr8fuln2020]

21 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Would just ask something like "noticed in your profile that you're divorced. Have you been divorced for a while" be ok early?

I do it all the time, every time.