Dating older widowed man. What is the future of this relationship?

[Sha17]

I’ve been seeing an older man for 10 months now. I’ve known him to say hello to for a few years. Sadly his wife passed away 2 years ago last week. Their family own holiday homes in the place that I live and I would have spoken to them socially over the years. 
10 months ago he and I happened to be in the same bar and he ended up buying me a drinking and we chatted and have been seeing each other ever since. He is 58 and I am 41, and the age gap doesn’t really bother us too much. He has 3 grown up children and they are very close. Before Covid he was trying to figure out how to introduce me to them as it’s nearly holiday season and they spend most of the summer in their holiday homes. However, because of Covid-19 obviously it’s all been put on the back burner and I’m starting to wonder about what the future holds for us. 
He and I get on so well and I miss him so much, but even without the corona virus I can’t help but think about where this relationship is going. His kids know about me and we all know each other to see although I’ve never spoken to them.  His youngest daughter is only 22 and still lives with him, al though he thinks that she will be the most accepting of ya. And his other 2 are married with families of their own and therefore may not be as impacted by our relationship... I don’t know..... he has expressed fears in the past about losing his family in case they look down on him for me being so much younger, and I am only 3 years older than his eldest. 
He lives 90 minutes away and before lockdown he was here every week for at least a long weekend, and often for 4 or 5 days.

I’m so confused right now, to be honest I just want to be with him, I love him so much and he loves me but there just seems to be so much stacked against us. 
He has a family business beside where he lives and he isn’t the type to retire. Nor can I see me even visiting his family home any time soon, and I don’t even know how I’d feel about that anyway. I have a 15 year old who still has 3 years of school left so of course he must’ve considered too, he is very found of my..... I struggle to know what to call him.... boyfriend doesn’t sound right, partner kind of does but we are not proper partners in my sense of the word.

Can anyone please help? 

[salparadise]

His children's approval doesn't matter unless he gives them veto power over his life, which is a big mistake. Are the two of you keeping distance from each other during the lockdown? If so, that could certainly put a damper on things. Established couples usually continue sharing space even during the unusual circumstances. Otherwise, I'd say it's just another one of those situations where you need to have the talk to determine if both of you are thinking about a future together. I don't think the age difference a big deal, but if one or both of you do then it could be a factor. It's all individual choices, not a thing anyone here can determine by generalizing. If you figure out that he's just passing the time and isn't serious, you may want to quit wasting your time... but you're going to have to work that out with him. 

[Blind-Sided]

20 minutes ago, salparadise said:

His children's approval doesn't matter unless he gives them veto power over his life, which is a big mistake. ......

I agree.

First... why are you worrying about want MAY BE??   Also... his kids are all very much adults, and understand the people need to be pair bonded to another... it's just part of our biological makeup.  So... his kids would be very selfish to think anything other that happy thoughts about their father, and him finding happiness again.  With that said... your BF should talk to his kids and just say... "I've been seeing someone.  If you would like to meet her, just let me know."  Obviously the talk with his 22 yo would be different since she still lives with him.

As far as the age gap... that shouldn't even be a thing.  You two are VERY much adults, and I'm guessing that most people wouldn't "see" an apparent age gap.  So here again... don't make a problem where there isn't one. As far as the age gap with his kids... don't even bring up age, and I'm guessing they won't know, or care.   On this point I have some good insight. Over the last few months, I've been seeing a girl who is 21 years younger than me.  At first it was strange... but after a while... who cares... we are happy.    

Talk with your BF, and just enjoy each other and be happy with each other.

[smackie9]

this is between him and his kids.....You are best to let him handle things unless he asks you for advice.

[Lotsgoingon]

Kids are increasingly open-minded these days about parents dating new people. I think parents think their kids are idiots sometimes, imagining that their kids think they should live celibate after a divorce or death of a spouse.

Sounds like this concern is a place to park your anxiety right now. Most likely what you are feeling is this: you're realizing that you REALLY like this guy but there can be no reassurance really during the lockdown ... or only minimal reassurance. So now, you've got high hopes and high feelings ... but low confirmation based on the ongoing relationship and seeing someone regularly and reading their body language and all of that. 

The worry about his kids has now filled the vacuum between high hopes ... and no in-person contact. Yes, he could have been smarter to not go down this foolish worry route about what the kids think (but so many people do this). Adult kids can get their minds around parents dating. I know people who are parts of complicated step families--they work it out. And if they don't, it isn't because the kids think mom/dad ought to remain permanently celibate. 

Question: this guy sounds wealthy ... and am I reading this right: he's in business with his children?  Dating into a wealthy family running a business has its own challenges. That can set off "outsider" buttons. Is this something you're feeling?

See if you can set some other goals to focus on right now ... and think about what would be fun in interacting with him during the lockdown. I mean, see if you can find an online game where you and he can play together ... and talk ... Talking directly can get tiresome ... but doing some activity together (even virtually) can help. Maybe pick some movies to watch together. There are apps where you can both watch the same video, the same Netflix show and so on ... Zoom has a screensharing option that allows you to play a video that someone else can see. These are not substitutes for in-person time, but they are better than simply worrying. 

Hang in there.

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, salparadise said:

His children's approval doesn't matter unless he gives them veto power over his life, which is a big mistake.

But if his kids ostracise him and he is left all alone, then of course it matters.
Most parents don't want to lose their kids and no-one can force kids to accept a new partner.
These kids are adult  yes. but sometimes that is a bigger issue than little kids who may just go with the flow.
These "kids" just lost their mother too.
2 years is not a long time as regards grief both for him and the kids.
The OP is roughly the same age as the older kids... That I guess will not go down too well either.
Looking forward they will also be very aware that If this turns into a marriage then their inheritances may just disappear...
The "family business" complicates matters too.

OP
He has warned you he is scared of losing them over you, I guess he is probably right as he likely already knows or has made an educated guess that they are hostile towards you.
BUT time is a great healer and it all may be fine eventually.
It really depends how flexible the kids are to change and how much of a "threat" they perceive you to be to their lives and to that of their kids.

Do you feel the "lockdown" has introduced more distance between the two of you than you imagined it would, maybe?

[Sha17]

8 hours ago, salparadise said:

His children's approval doesn't matter unless he gives them veto power over his life, which is a big mistake. Are the two of you keeping distance from each other during the lockdown? If so, that could certainly put a damper on things. Established couples usually continue sharing space even during the unusual circumstances. Otherwise, I'd say it's just another one of those situations where you need to have the talk to determine if both of you are thinking about a future together. I don't think the age difference a big deal, but if one or both of you do then it could be a factor. It's all individual choices, not a thing anyone here can determine by generalizing. If you figure out that he's just passing the time and isn't serious, you may want to quit wasting your time... but you're going to have to work that out with him. 

Thank you so much, I’m going to see no talk with him at the weekend so I hope I can get some clarity with this, just don’t want to push things either ya know 

[Sha17]

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Kids are increasingly open-minded these days about parents dating new people. I think parents think their kids are idiots sometimes, imagining that their kids think they should live celibate after a divorce or death of a spouse.

Sounds like this concern is a place to park your anxiety right now. Most likely what you are feeling is this: you're realizing that you REALLY like this guy but there can be no reassurance really during the lockdown ... or only minimal reassurance. So now, you've got high hopes and high feelings ... but low confirmation based on the ongoing relationship and seeing someone regularly and reading their body language and all of that. 

The worry about his kids has now filled the vacuum between high hopes ... and no in-person contact. Yes, he could have been smarter to not go down this foolish worry route about what the kids think (but so many people do this). Adult kids can get their minds around parents dating. I know people who are parts of complicated step families--they work it out. And if they don't, it isn't because the kids think mom/dad ought to remain permanently celibate. 

Question: this guy sounds wealthy ... and am I reading this right: he's in business with his children?  Dating into a wealthy family running a business has its own challenges. That can set off "outsider" buttons. Is this something you're feeling?

See if you can set some other goals to focus on right now ... and think about what would be fun in interacting with him during the lockdown. I mean, see if you can find an online game where you and he can play together ... and talk ... Talking directly can get tiresome ... but doing some activity together (even virtually) can help. Maybe pick some movies to watch together. There are apps where you can both watch the same video, the same Netflix show and so on ... Zoom has a screensharing option that allows you to play a video that someone else can see. These are not substitutes for in-person time, but they are better than simply worrying. 

Hang in there.

Thank you so much, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with my high hopes and feelings and I may be over anxious unnecessarily, you’ve given me an insight into it in a way I didn’t think about, thank you for that 

[Lotsgoingon]

You're not over-anxious "unnecessarily." You're anxious UNAVOIDABLY. You'd have to be a robot not to feel some anxiousness given that you are sorta stranded right now ... between a good start to a relationship ... and real closeness.  Zoom some movies together. Zoom some art museums together (there are lots of virtual tours) ...or whatever your thing is ... scrabble, checkers ...  

 

[kendahke]

Sometimes, grown kids can be worse than little children---these adults are expecting their inheritance without the interference of a new wife with her own child whose welfare she's looking out for who will change things for them. 

Unless he's got an iron clad will spelling out explicitly that you aren't going to take off with what he's promised them for all of their lives--and certainly since the passing of their mother---expect for him to step gingerly around the topic of really incorporating you in his life in order to preserve the good order with his children.

Are you financially set up on your own for your retirement years?

[Ruby Slippers]

All this will be up to him to navigate. As for inheritances, his money is his to pass on however he wishes. The kids aren't automatically entitled to anything. It's his money and his choice. Certainly, if it gets to the point of discussing marriage, merging and handling finances is a critical topic to discuss. Most women aren't going to sign up for any kind of prenuptial deal but will want to merge finances. Marriage is a spiritual union, not a business partnership.

My boyfriend is 12 years older with 2 grown kids, and he introduced me to them quickly, took me to his hometown to stay for 2 weeks over Christmas vacation. They were totally sweet and welcoming, seemed happy for their dad that he'd found someone he really likes. All this was his idea. I wouldn't have brought it up myself or pushed the issue.

[kendahke]

On 5/26/2020 at 3:27 AM, Sha17 said:

he has expressed fears in the past about losing his family in case they look down on him for me being so much younger, and I am only 3 years older than his eldest. 

If he's feeling like this, then you can guarantee that he knows his kids better than anyone here on this board and already knows there's going to be push back from them.

And marriage is most certainly a business partnership, especially when there's a family business involved--if it weren't, divorces wouldn't be tied up in court with fighting over asset and property distributions.

[Ruby Slippers]

In any case, the point remains that it's his money and he has 100% rights to decide how to allocate it now or in the future. No kids are ever entitled to any inheritance, no matter how much money is involved. It's the parent's choice 100%. 

Now, if they all own a family business jointly, of course their portion of the business is their income to manage. But anything that belongs to the dad is his to manage however he likes.

[kendahke]

and OP needs to understand that him saying what I highlighted above means that he places their feelings right now above hers---and that may never change.  Some parents would rather not rattle their children's cages, despite whose money it is. He sounds like he's one of those parents, especially 2 years out of the death of his wife and their mother.

[elaine567]

Ruby your bf's kids are 19 and 23, they are not going to be thinking about inheritances yet. They are in go with the flow mode, wow Dad's got a new gf, great..
BUT once they are older with families of their own, you bet they will be thinking about inheritances.
That is where this man is at.
Like Kendahke, I believe he knows exactly where his kids are coming from here, hence the warning.

[Miss Spider]

A man’s kids will come 1st to him always. Which  is the way it should be anyway imo. 

[FMW]

Of course children aren't entitled to inheritances.  I have no siblings, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically entitled to what my parents had.  However, I saw up close and personal the effect of my Aunt not safeguarding the assets her children's late father and her had built over the years to make sure THEY were the beneficiaries of the shared effort of their parents.  She remarried in her 50s and did not make provisions for what she was bringing in to the marriage to go to her children with her late husband.  

It caused a huge rift for several years.  It's not that my cousins were mercenary, it was what it said to them that their mother would leave it open for her new husband (and then his children) to get everything that their father had helped build with their mother, land they had helped farm while growing up, the house they grew up in, etc.  They fortunately mended their relationships, and it turned out her new husband actually predeceased her. 

Anything a couple gains together should of course be marital assets.  But if someone has children prior to marriage, I don't believe the new spouse should expect to get everything their partner had prior to them even meeting.  Think of this way as well - if you predecease your spouse, would you want their new spouse getting everything you had helped build and your children being left out?   

[FMW]

I'm sure Sha17 isn't after her guy for his money.  Unfortunately it's something she might have to deal with as far as his children go, understanding they may be suspicious of her motives.  But hopefully they will be happy for him to have someone to share things with and love.

I'm in my 50s and I'm not sure how I would feel about my mom getting serious with another man, aside from inheritance issues.  I want her to be happy, but I think it would probably be normal to feel a little conflicted about it at least at first.  It's probably hard at any age to see a parent with someone else when you've lost the other one.  She's sworn she will never date, but she's a very attractive, healthy and vital 73 year old so who knows.  

If you love him Sha17, give it a little time.  Two years isn't a long time to deal with that kind of loss.  I know how scary that can be, I'm dating a man who's wife died only 18 months ago, but they didn't have children so I don't have to deal with that.  Even so, dating a widower is not for the weak of heart 

[Ruby Slippers]

Yes, I agree that the OP doesn't seem anywhere near considering merging finances. She's just wondering if this relationship has legs given the age differences and his reservations about that. 

I can't imagine worrying about my feelings of entitlement to an inheritance more than my widowed parent's happiness. 

My personal finance guru is Dave Ramsey. I don't agree with everything he believes, but I do agree with him on the merging of finances in marriage. Marriage is a spiritual union where all assets are merged. "Unto thee all my worldly goods I bequeath." Some allowances can be made if one partner has millions and the other has none, but otherwise it doesn't make sense. I've always imagined that if I get married again, everything will be merged and we'll make joint decisions on how to manage our shared assets. I don't imagine I'd be interested in any other arrangement.

Dave's general recommendation in case of second marriage is that all assets be merged and then left to the living spouse, with a written agreement to pass down those assets to both of their children when that one passes. All of this should be communicated out loud in a family meeting to everybody, so nobody's surprised. 

He has a great example to illustrate why this makes sense. Let's say one of you develops some medical issue like cancer that requires expensive ongoing treatment. It wouldn't make any sense to hold back assets from necessary medical care to save it up for kids' inheritances. You spend the money you need and want to within the marriage, and then when you're both gone, anything left over is passed on.

This is exactly how it's working with my parents. My dad left his first wife of 20 years, the first wife got more than half of everything, and then he married my mom. He's helped his 4 kids from his first marriage plenty over the years, but now he and my mom have been together for more than 40 years. So when he goes, he'll leave everything to my mom. Then when she goes, she'll pass anything left on to his kids, her kids from her first marriage, and me. Given my dad's spending habits and high medical expenses, there probably won't be anything or much left, but that's the general idea.

[salparadise]

12 minutes ago, FMW said:

Two years isn't a long time to deal with that kind of loss.  I know how scary that can be, I'm dating a man who's wife died only 18 months ago, but they didn't have children so I don't have to deal with that.  Even so, dating a widower is not for the weak of heart 

No, but two years is a long time to be dating someone later in life without knowing where it's heading. People (men and women) will waste your time, allowing you to meet their needs indefinitely while remaining non-committal and making excuses for why they aren't ready. It's up to the individual involved to not allow that to happen... but it's hard to cut the cord when you love someone. It's easy to keep telling yourself it will be find, they'll commit when they're a bit further along. 

As for the OP, and I can say this easily from an objective position with no skin in the game...  I'd figure this out sooner rather than later. That's assuming that you want the traditional relationship, marriage, etc. Actually, I think it's odd that the two of you have been distancing from each other after being together the better part of a year. But now that things are starting to normalize I'd expect time together and after being together a year I'd expect some indication of where it's headed. If he's not willing, maybe he needs some incentive. Or maybe you need to consider that he might be just fine with a loose arrangement indefinitely as long as you're meeting his needs. 

[BaileyB]

As an adult child who has lived this experience, I will share that this could work out well for you - but you need to let him deal with it. Time is on your side here, it has been two years since his wife died, and there is no rush with Covid to bring things together soon.

Even when he does tell them about you, don’t expect that everyone is going to come together as a happy family. We are eight years out, and we do gather occasionally with my father’s girlfriend’s children. But, not for holidays. She still goes with her children to their big extended family gatherings. My father goes with her sometimes, we have been invited but we have not gone. And, he comes to our extended family gatherings with his girlfriend. Her children would be welcome, but they don’t come. 

The last thing you want to do is push your new relationship on these children - it may have been two years, but they lost their mom and they are still grieving the loss of their family. They are young adults, their mom is missing so many of their life milestones - possible graduations, new engagements, marriages, grandchildren. That’s a lot of grief, and it comes back with every new step, every new milestone. 

I do believe that children of any age generally want to see their parents be happy. I have no doubt, that they would expect that their father may want to find another relationship given the fact that he was widowed at a relatively young age and he potentially has a lot of living still to do. My father was very lonely, I have said - he was really not meant to be on this earth alone. Of course, we wanted him to find someone and find happiness again... it’s simply a question of when and how it is done.

My bottom line, if you want his children to treat you and your relationship with respect, you will need to treat them with the same respect. Honour their mother and the family that they were, give them time (even your “partner”), and have realistic expectations. You will never regret taking your time, you will regret it and make this so much more difficult if you try to rush it or force it. So, live your life... raise your son, and if it’s meant to be, it will be. Best wishes.

Edited May 29, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

Forgot to say, with respect to the inheritance... I think some of these comments have been unfair to the children. Sure, there are always people who worry about money in these situations, but not everyone. There are certainly ways that he can designate who will get the “inheritance” after his passing. It is possible to sign a cohabitation agreement or pre-nup if you were ever to live together or get married. He can be fair to both his new partner and his children and make allowances for the home, if she decides to continue living in the home after his passing. This can all be predetermined and doesn’t need to be a source of conflict for the family. But - it’s up to him. At the end of the day, it is his money and he decides how it will be distributed upon his passing. There is no “right” to inheritance - no rule that says it must go to his children. He could decide to give it all to charity for all they know, and there is nothing they can do about it. If they want to keep their inheritance, it would be to their benefit to not behave like entitled and spoiled children and support their father in his life - however he decides to spend the remainder of his days.  

To say that children will not accept a new partner for their parent because they are worried about their inheritance just seems... kinda mean. 

[BaileyB]

17 hours ago, salparadise said:

No, but two years is a long time to be dating someone later in life without knowing where it's heading. 

I'd figure this out sooner rather than later. That's assuming that you want the traditional relationship, marriage, etc. 

I believe she said that his wife passed two years ago, they have been dating for 10 months.

And, as a woman who is a little later in life... and by that I mean, not 25 and waiting to get started in life. She is perhaps someone who has been there, done that, with respect to marriage and children... she still has a teenage child at home, so maybe there isn’t a rush to bring this together. Perhaps, marriage is something she would consider, maybe it’s not. Going by what has been shared, with respect to this man visiting her home, with her child - she’s not sure about that. It’s complicated when you are further down the path of life, especially when there are children - even grown children - to consider. There is no rush to decide what this relationship is exactly - you have your own life, your child, your own interests, your own responsibilities... if you enjoy each other’s company, there is nothing saying that you can’t just settle in and enjoy each other’s company for a while longer. It gives everyone time to adjust, including your own child, and I don’t see that as a bad thing...

Edited May 29, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

18 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

My personal finance guru is Dave Ramsey. I don't agree with everything he believes, but I do agree with him on the merging of finances in marriage. Marriage is a spiritual union where all assets are merged. "Unto thee all my worldly goods I bequeath." 

To each their own Ruby, but I’ve worked too hard to acquire my assets to then loose them to my partner in the event of separation or divorce. Thankfully, he feels the same way after loosing his father’s inheritance to his ex-wife, when he put the money down on the mortgage and then had to pay her for half of the home. Marriage, particularly second marriages, is as much a financial agreement as a legal/spiritual agreement. 

Quote

Dave's general recommendation in case of second marriage is that all assets be merged and then left to the living spouse, with a written agreement to pass down those assets to both of their children when that one passes. All of this should be communicated out loud in a family meeting to everybody, so nobody's surprised. 

This was the plan for my friend’s husband’s family. Second marriage, both had children from their previous marriages. When he died, he left everything to his spouse and his children got nothing. When she died, she left everything to HER children, and his children got nothing. My friend’s husband was the executor of the will - and the conflict was intense. His step siblings left threatening messages on their phones, they contested the will - but there was nothing they could do. So yeah, in theory it works well to have a family discussion around the table... but here, we have a woman who did not include her husband’s children in her will for whatever reason... and adult siblings who didn’t grow up together and didn’t really know each other well or get along at all... and kaboom! 

My father, has left the home that he shares with his girlfriend to her, the value to be divided fairly among both of their children upon her passing (and the sale of the home). All his other assets are to be divided among his children. Same for her. It’s basically what I am doing with my boyfriend. It seems fair to everyone and nothing is left to “good will.”

Edited May 29, 2020 by BaileyB