Age to Get Married

[BhodiLi]

23 hours ago, preraph said:

I completely agree.  Before we dump any more money into any type of education or free college, first the fat needs to be trimmed because colleges are in it for profit and we can't take their word for anything because of it.  They could easily cut most of the first two years' basic requirements away entirely since most of it is repetitive from high school.  Just make sure kids get it in high school and don't repeat it.  Such a waste of time and youth and money.

They waste too much time in high school and even in jr  high. A math teacher of mine once pointed out that about ninety percent of what you learn in school you forget and never use. I would have to say he's right.

[preraph]

It's good to have the basics, if for no other reason than to help define what your own strengths are so you can choose a profession, but all that needs to be done in high school.  I do think there are a lot of practical things that should also be taught in high school that are more important.  

[BhodiLi]

19 hours ago, basil67 said:

You quoted marrying at 16 or 17 in your first post.   Are you suggesting that the average person could have completed tertiary education and have an established career by this age?   Would you really want a 16 or 17yo doing surgery on you? 

I would want somebody whose skilled enough to do surgery on me. What matters about a person doing surgery is their skills, age is irrelevant. 

[BhodiLi]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

It's good to have the basics, if for no other reason than to help define what your own strengths are so you can choose a profession, but all that needs to be done in high school.  I do think there are a lot of practical things that should also be taught in high school that are more important.  

I agree about having the basics but those should be acquired in elementary school, by high school you should already have the basics.

[preraph]

Kids do start getting the basics.  My best math education was an experimental program in 4th grade and I was so good they had me writing equations for the principal -- but that didn't mean I was really that good at math.  I was okay at algebra, but not at ALL good at geometry.  Not a clue.  Not one clue.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, BhodiLi said:

I would want somebody whose skilled enough to do surgery on me. What matters about a person doing surgery is their skills, age is irrelevant. 

What about maturity?   The fact that under 25s are over represented in the road toll tells us that they don't have great maturity and decision making skills.

How old are you BhodiLi?

[Ellener]

75.

Well at least it's the next time I'll consider it 😁😁

[BhodiLi]

On 5/30/2020 at 6:41 PM, basil67 said:

What about maturity?   The fact that under 25s are over represented in the road toll tells us that they don't have great maturity and decision making skills.

How old are you BhodiLi?

People mature at different rates, if somebody has the skills and maturity to do surgery at 25 they should by all means do it if they want to. And speaking of people under 25 who are on the road, you only have to be 21 to be a police officer, and they're on the road all the time. 

 

And Im over 25.

[BhodiLi]

I want to point out that in the Gypsy culture its common to get married at 16. They say that if you sit a girl in a chair, if her feet reach the floor she's ready to get married. 

[basil67]

If my daughter wanted to marry at 16, I would not have given my blessing.    Not just because statistically, the marriage would crash and burn but also because they would not have the means to be financially independent for at least another 5 years.    And even then, they'd still be living with roommates in old, rundown places which only uni students can afford.  

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by basil67

[Ruby Slippers]

I think marriage at a young age only works if both people have strong, healthy families to guide them. It also helps if there's a strong faith component to keep people within a certain frame.

I was married once at a pretty young age, with a poor family support system. It didn't last long. We were pretty much clueless and hardly knew how to function as adults, let alone a married couple. I've had opportunities to marry again, but I only want to do it if I'm pretty sure it's going to last the rest of my life. So far I haven't had that feeling, so I haven't taken the leap a second time.

[Noproblem]

The right age to get married is when you have already established your goals in life and secured a good future, as in, if you are alone, you can survive on your own when things go south.

The right age to get married is when you have found someone that shares your same values and outlook in life who is supportive and who loves you with no strings attached, and whom you love as well. 

The right time to get married is when you feel ready physically, financially, and emotionally, and so does your partner. and if you both do not want to get married, that is also ok, and if you want to stay single, it's also OK. 

Marriage is just another way to live your life; it does not define you and should not constrain you; it's a choice, not an obligation.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Noproblem

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:25 AM, BhodiLi said:

If you're a believer in the Bible then that's all the more reason you should consider the age around which your parents got married to be the ideal age to get married.

The ideal age for marriage during the Bronze Age was largely based on having the girl be married before becoming pregnant. The husband was often much older because he had to work, save and build up his reputation in the community first.

Would you really let some 40-year-old dude rape your 13-year-old daughter on their wedding night and have her give birth by 14 or so?

Really?

Like in the Middle East during the Bronze Age?

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:42 PM, BhodiLi said:

I want to point out that in the Gypsy culture its common to get married at 16. They say that if you sit a girl in a chair, if her feet reach the floor she's ready to get married. 

Untrue as an overall practice today, not to mention the fact that there is no one "gypsy"/traveler culture. Are you talking Romany? Irish? What?

When travelers do have the marrying young tradition, they live with the parents for years also as tradition. They aren't adults...not really. And they're not treated as adults. Mommy is still teaching the daughter to take care of the house and Daddy is still telling the teen groom what to do.

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:38 AM, BhodiLi said:

I agree about having the basics but those should be acquired in elementary school, by high school you should already have the basics.

Education each year builds on the previous one, and the brain is still in the process of development until 20 or so. You can throw certain information at a fourth grader that she can't process. It won't do any good.

It isn't true that the first two years of college are review of high school unless you're in a CC and tested remedially/failing on entrance exams in certain subjects. Courses all have requirements and the very least level you'll generally find will be successful completion months high school senior subject that the new course builds on.

Are you doing something that starts in a T and ends in an L?

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

The ideal age for marriage during the Bronze Age

Did you read this study too https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/731:

Archaeology has used analysis of the artifacts and remains of people to uncover their past behaviors and to infer their cultural practices. However, establishing genetic relationships has only recently become possible. Mittnik et al. examined the kinship and inheritance of the remains of people from the German Lech River Valley over a time period spanning the Late Neolithic Corded Ware Culture, the Bell Beaker Complex, the Early Bronze Age, and the Middle Bronze Age (see the Perspective by Feinman and Neitzel). From genetic and archaeological analyses, it was revealed that the Early Bronze Age household's burials over multiple generations consisted of a high-status core family and unrelated low-status individuals. Furthermore, women were not related to the men within the household, suggesting that men stayed within their birth communities in this society, but women did not.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:05 AM, BhodiLi said:

I've got great great grandparents who were 16 or 17 when they got married. They were then dropped off in the middle of nowhere and told to make a living for themselves and that's exactly what they did. That's how things should be done today, this extended childhood is really harmful and destructive to society.

It's the opposite of destructive, it fosters greater intellectual possibilities, and among other animals intellect is really our strongest survival trait. We're really pretty weak in other areas, like sense of smell, hearing, claws, sharp incisors, great speed, ability to sleep so lightly we awaken literally ready to run at the rustle of a leaf yards away, night vision, etc.

Among primates, a longer dependency period is associated with greater brain growth because the brain is an "expensive" organ to feed and it takes a while to grow to human adult capacity. So to oversimplify, during the course of evolution, the longer we've been taken care of and therefore able to safely grow our brains instead of being "done" fast so we can survive (because we had parents or at least a mother at the helm), the "smarter" we've gotten.

Currently other primates have shorter juvenile periods than humans do. Orangutans have only half the dependency period of humans.

So if you want to raise an orangutan, okay, kick it out of the nest fast and have it reproducing immediately, but if you want to successfully raise a human, it will take longer.

For a species that relies so heavily on its (for)brain, extending the period where that can be developed - because the youth can continue to learn and explore before life-or-death responsibilities kick in - is a positive. We think it's a pain in the ass because we eventually get tired of parenting - 18-20 years or so is a good while - but that's on us. Not just technology or "babying" is keeping kids kids longer. Evolution is contributing too. Just as it has for our almost 2 million years as the homo species.

We can't just marry off kids anymore and have them work the farm and maybe have the young wife die in childbirth and then shove another teenager in her place etc., until a few living babies are successfully created. Not if we want to keep our technology and all the comforts we are enjoying as moving forward. Do you like that computer you're using? Do you think its development to the system we have today was enabled by 16-year-old married farm couples with seventh grade educations (or less)? Or even high school freshman educations? Raising kid after kid?

Edited June 21, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

29 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Did you read this study too https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/731:

Archaeology has used analysis of the artifacts and remains of people to uncover their past behaviors and to infer their cultural practices. However, establishing genetic relationships has only recently become possible. Mittnik et al. examined the kinship and inheritance of the remains of people from the German Lech River Valley over a time period spanning the Late Neolithic Corded Ware Culture, the Bell Beaker Complex, the Early Bronze Age, and the Middle Bronze Age (see the Perspective by Feinman and Neitzel). From genetic and archaeological analyses, it was revealed that the Early Bronze Age household's burials over multiple generations consisted of a high-status core family and unrelated low-status individuals. Furthermore, women were not related to the men within the household, suggesting that men stayed within their birth communities in this society, but women did not.

 

I've never read this report and I need an account to view it, sorry.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I've never read this report and I need an account to view it, sorry.

Well the gist is that social inequalities can't be historically explained as previously. Mean people are just...mean! No impending need, no social or evolutionary imperative. They just latched on to 'habits' in their society then stuck with that even if it can't be explained as in any way rational.

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

The ideal age for marriage during the Bronze Age was largely based on having the girl be married before becoming pregnant. The husband was often much older because he had to work, save and build up his reputation in the community first.

Would you really let some 40-year-old dude rape your 13-year-old daughter on their wedding night and have her give birth by 14 or so?

Really?

Like in the Middle East during the Bronze Age?

Two of my ancestors who lived in Australia in the 1800's come to mind.  She married at age 14 to a man who was mid 30's.   She was a mother at 15.   Nobody can persuade me that this is an ideal outcome.  

[basil67]

On 6/17/2020 at 9:31 AM, Ruby Slippers said:

I was married once at a pretty young age, with a poor family support system. It didn't last long. We were pretty much clueless and hardly knew how to function as adults, let alone a married couple. 

Yep. I got married at 20yo and he was about 24.  Lasted all of four years.

[Azincourt]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:05 PM, BhodiLi said:

I've got great great grandparents who were 16 or 17 when they got married. They were then dropped off in the middle of nowhere and told to make a living for themselves and that's exactly what they did. That's how things should be done today, this extended childhood is really harmful and destructive to society.

My father is in his 60s.

When he started at his job at the age of 20, he was under the wing of a 40 year old. Now the guy's in his 80's and I remember hearing the guy brag about being married for 60 years or something, making a fuss about how ''these days that's impossible, most marriages only last a handful of years(not wrong)'' and talking about how these days people give up on their marriages at the first sign of trouble in paradise.

I was listening to this old timer talk, and all i was doing was thinking to myself, ''yeah, that marriage lasted that long because women only recently acquired the right to no-fault divorce, and even before no-fault divorce, women had to go through a LOT of trouble to get a divorce even when fully deserving of one.''

Think about it.

For the entirety of Mankind's existence as a species, these last 200,000 to 300,000 years,  marriages have been arranged marriages.

To this day, half the world still abides by this archaic and old-death tradition that enslaves women to men, especially young women who are physically attractive and are tied down permanently to men who are not in their league, looks wise, older than them, because these are the guys who have the money to afford a wife.

Things are different in the western nations but not by much.  How many eligible bachelors are there in North America? Europe?

How many men have their own house before the age of 30, and have it paid off entirely before they're 45?

How many men have at least 200,000 dollars in their bank accounts in liquid cash before they decide get married, or get in a serious relationship?

How many men have solid assets that act as another source of income?

How many men are physically attractive? How many men are charming? How many men are good in bed? How many men are physically imposing?

Now how many men have all these characteristics, or at least most of them, in them?

A handful.  Those men either become playboys for their whole lives, or they marry young and their wives hang on strongly to them like an Astronaut holding on to the cable between the the international space station and the void of space.

Eventually, most women will become bored or tired or disappointed with their husbands, and a divorce will happen, or the men will divorce them instead. The divorce rate is at 89% in Belgium and 90% in Portugal. It's at 54% in the states because more and more people are not getting married, and since there's a ton of broke people who can't afford living on their own, they stay married despite being unhappy, and the huge amount of religious people in the USA means those people can't get a divorce. The divorce rate in the states would be in the high 90%s otherwise.

When the average lifespan was like 35 to 40 years for men, sure.  Marriage might have made sense. But now? With the average lifespan for a western man around 75?  Get married at say 30, and then stay married for 45 years?

Sure, that can happen. Why not.

But if you want a marriage to succeed, better get your starter marriage around the age of 50. You've lived for a long time now, you've traveled the world, you've had a score of romantic relationships and such,  and if you want children, you can always adopt them. There are 6.6 million orphans in the USA alone looking for a loving home.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Azincourt

[SarahWins]

There is something very magical and romantic for very young marriages, but for practical considerations probably 22-28 is best.

[d0nnivain]

Just now, SarahWins said:

There is something very magical and romantic for very young marriages, but for practical considerations probably 22-28 is best.

Child marriages are not romantic or magical.   Perhaps marrying prior to 22 worked when life expectancy was 36 - 40 but not in a modern age.  Fairy tales are not real! 

[SarahWins]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

Child marriages are not romantic or magical.   Perhaps marrying prior to 22 worked when life expectancy was 36 - 40 but not in a modern age.  Fairy tales are not real! 

We can agree to disagree. Being 20 is far from being a child, nevertheless I expressed preference 22-28 so that people finish college first.

I married for the first time at 36 FYI.