Mascara Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 Sounds like he’s lining up a whole lot of reasons for why he can’t leave. None of which are your concern. Don't be fooled into thinking you need to show him how much “better” you are with the whole being supportive and understanding thing - he needs to see what life is like without you, so keep your distance - this also has the advantage of you being able to start on with moving on from him. But honestly, any man who dithers about leaving and comes up with a whole host of excuses why he can’t just yet is going to be a man who changes his mind once the s*** hits the fan. 2
heartwhole2 Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 12 hours ago, Kiki55 said: Hi S2B - please see my quote below. I don't have a therapist, I don't think I need one. If this ends badly (very likely) I will get over it, I know I will. I won't ever let myself get in this situation again, I plan to concentrate on myself and leave relationships until I have had some time to find me. I know for certain that when/if this doesn't work out, after the way he has been with me, I will of had a very lucky escape... I'd like to challenge your perspective on this. I'm a generally healthy person with no FOO issues and a lot of good coping skills, but I have found therapy useful when I've done it. We can all use extra perspective and support . . . that's why you're here, isn't it? A professional therapist who knows you intimately will likely be able to give you even more direction and insight than you find here. I'd also point out that you've just ended a marriage and you and your kids are going through a big transition due to that, not to mention a major disruption in daily life due to COVID 19. And lastly, you've been taking risks that many here are telling you are unwise and will likely end up hurt by the end result. None of us are perfect, and the best way to grow is to recognize that we can always learn better and do better. My advice regarding next week is to do your best to step outside of the situation. My concern is that whatever progress he will report will be vague and non-committal. Try to stop yourself if you start justifying it as "good enough" or "at least it's something" or "he can't be expected to do more because of X, Y, or Z." Know what concrete action you will take and stick to if he does not follow through. Don't engage in a never ending cycle of getting pissy and backing off only to melt when he panics and woos you back. That will be a never ending pattern if you let it be. 3
Author Kiki55 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Posted May 31, 2020 14 hours ago, BaileyB said: Telling him that he has ruined her life has everything to do with the fact that she is in pain because her marriage is ending. And, if she knew the truth of the situation she would be saying that he ruined her life because she trusted a man and had children with a man who was not faithful to her in return. That hurts. Have you considered that she may not want to find someone else? Perhaps, she will be thrilled to be single again, free from the weight of an unhappy marriage and an unfaithful husband? Free to enjoy her children and her own life? Personally, I wouldn’t care what age you are... With age, comes wisdom and life experience... If you want him, you would be welcome to have him. The last thing I would do would be to fight for my unfaithful husband. I would go straight to my lawyer... Now, this woman is obviously her own person and will have her own response... but be careful when you project how she may feel - because you could be way wrong... I do agree with you. I am only speculating and guessing really on how he may interpret her feelings. She has said to him (according to him) that he has ruined her life, she has also said to him how she will now have to get a job. He has told her she will keep the house her car and a large sum for the children every month - again, I will stress that this is all he has told me, I don't know if this is true.
Author Kiki55 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Posted May 31, 2020 13 hours ago, elaine567 said: I don't really think that not telling the wife is Kiki's decision. I guess if t was up to her she would rather she knew as that at least would be a sign there was something real here. This "My wife can't ever find out" is madness as both have teenage kids and he spends every day with Kiki... Two and two together make four... I have told him that I would gladly come into his life and accept the consequences, if she wants to scream and hit me I would let her! Because I know I would feel the same. I just know that the truth always comes out. He said that she has been talking to some of her exes and stuff, he is under some illusion that when she does find out several months from now, she will not care so much... I don't know their relationship, I know that they do not nor did not spend much time in eachothers company. I know this from before the affair even started between us as we were friends for some 18 months within a group of colleagues and we all regularly chatted about this stuff, he didn't have any motive then to lie to me so I do believe that.
Author Kiki55 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Posted May 31, 2020 15 hours ago, Allupinnit said: Just because she is 10 years older than him doesn't mean she can't do any better than a man who cheats on her. I think you should do her both a favor and tell her the truth about her life, you both need to stop pretending you give a rip about her feelings.. What's going to hurt the most is the lies and deceit - that's ALWAYS the case. I would tell her, but it's not my place. And yes, of course she can do better than him, I know if I was her I'd want the cold hard truth.
Author Kiki55 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Posted May 31, 2020 10 hours ago, heartwhole2 said: I'd like to challenge your perspective on this. I'm a generally healthy person with no FOO issues and a lot of good coping skills, but I have found therapy useful when I've done it. We can all use extra perspective and support . . . that's why you're here, isn't it? A professional therapist who knows you intimately will likely be able to give you even more direction and insight than you find here. I'd also point out that you've just ended a marriage and you and your kids are going through a big transition due to that, not to mention a major disruption in daily life due to COVID 19. And lastly, you've been taking risks that many here are telling you are unwise and will likely end up hurt by the end result. None of us are perfect, and the best way to grow is to recognize that we can always learn better and do better. My advice regarding next week is to do your best to step outside of the situation. My concern is that whatever progress he will report will be vague and non-committal. Try to stop yourself if you start justifying it as "good enough" or "at least it's something" or "he can't be expected to do more because of X, Y, or Z." Know what concrete action you will take and stick to if he does not follow through. Don't engage in a never ending cycle of getting pissy and backing off only to melt when he panics and woos you back. That will be a never ending pattern if you let it be. I am extremely nervous, my mum came to socially distance in my back garden yesterday. We spent a good few hours together and she said to me "where has K***** gone? This is tearing me up inside and I can't think about anything except this A right now. My mum told me a story of how she had an affair with a MM when she was 17... he was 24, usual story, we don't get on, I will leave her soon, kids are too young. He wooed her for 8 months and when she wanted more he kept telling her to wait... she had enough one day and said "I'm dating somebody else" this was a lie but she wanted to see his reaction, he said to her "why have you done that? I was just about to leave her" He walked away from her and she said that she hated herself for saying the lie to him, regretted it and was distraught, blaming herself. She said she doesn't think she ever really got over it, even to this day, and she knows he probably would not of left but she blamed herself for how it ended. I guess the point of this is that 1) I want to make sure I give him the opportunity I have offered and not move the goal posts myself i.e. wait until Friday even though it's so hard. 2) I need to understand the hold he has over me 3) When he hasn't done the steps we've discussed, understand that he does not love me enough to go through with it, or it has all been a big lie. 4) Note that I have had a lucky escape from a absolute low life scumbag. Who cares about nobody but himself.
Author Kiki55 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Posted May 31, 2020 13 hours ago, BaileyB said: I totally agree. Keeping this information secret because it would cause his wife pain shows where his concern is... but personally, he doesn’t like the fact that she’s told him that he has ruined her life. That’s harsh. He wants to smooth the waters, calm her anger, ease his guilt... He probably doesn’t want to be known as the man who left his wife and children for his affair partner... Either way, the person who continues to compromise herself is Kiki, she may have won her man but she is still kept in the shadows... Telling the world does “legitimize” the relationship to some extent. It shows that he is willing to at least take some responsibility, that there is some commitment to the new relationship. I think it’s really naive to think that it’s not going to come out, that she won’t figure it out. I don’t know the woman, but the thought that keeps coming to mind is that the two of you need to give the woman a little more credit... Hi BaileyB, I believe she should know the truth and if it was up to me I'd do it with him today. The only thing concerning me is his kids hating me. Should things work out the way he wants it to, I don't believe that my kids and his kids will spend that much time together anyway and all I can do is hope that it doesn't come up in conversation, initially, he did visit my home to work on a project for work so he can always say he done that a couple of times should it come up. I'm not going to dwell on this scenario - I personally have a lot more other things to worry about right now *sigh...
Author Kiki55 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Posted May 31, 2020 12 hours ago, Amethyst68 said: I think I mentioned this before but what happens when the children start spending time together and your kids start mentioning all the time he's spent having fun with them when he could (and should) have been spending it with his own. You and he seem dismissive of this, to brush it off but I would be pretty sure his kids would be hurt even if they don't show it. Have you even discussed this possibility or is it just put off in a hazy everything will be fine when the children see him happy? Yes, I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it. We have many more battles before this point. I can't see me meeting his children for at least 12 months. He hasn't spent a great deal of time with my children in all honesty. Whilst he is here, we are continuing our day job that's pretty stressful with a heavy workload. We have an hour before we start and break for a long lunch. My kids will come down and have breakfast, have a chat with the both of us, we might drop them off with their Dad etc he isn't sat there playing board games with them or playing in the garden with them.
elaine567 Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Kiki55 said: , I know that they do not nor did not spend much time in each others company. I wonder why that was? But the answer is right here. On 5/29/2020 at 5:47 PM, Kiki55 said: He is a man's man. Rarely shows feelings, tells me he's never felt jealousy in his life until me, never enjoyed a woman's company for more than sexual things really until me, never sent more than a couple of texts a day to a woman until... you guessed it..... me. Is this really what you want? People rarely change and yes he schmoozing you now but I guess you will soon join the legion of lonely unhappy woman stuck with a guy who never shows feelings and hardly communicates unless he is looking for sex. 3
Amethyst68 Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 Quote My MM is very involved with them and makes a big effort to get to know them (something I dont believe he would do if he wasn't serious about me) he brings them treats and gifts, jokes and plays with my son alot and will send me things, links to products etc that he thinks they will like. He has taken them to school/picks them up from school Your own words, sounds involved to me. 2
RebeccaR Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 To follow up on Elaine’s point: if he has truly finally found an emotional connection with a woman (you), why isn’t he racing to make it legitimate instead of dragging his heels? The children and the wife’s feelings aren’t really an excuse because surely if he has always been so disconnected, they would have already noticed. 6
lana-banana Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) What is the point of waiting til next Friday? Surely if he's serious about moving out or signing paperwork or whatever he would be mostly done by now. Is he really planning to sit down Thursday night and say "so, I'm leaving"? And if he's planning to be with you, why do you have to wait and give him space? Shouldn't he be open and honest with you, sharing progress, updates, etc? Waiting fearfully, wishing he would be more open, not wanting to make him mad---does any of that sound like healthy relationship behavior to you? I just cannot think of any other situation in which you agree with someone to do something very important and then you have to go totally radio silent and focus on not angering them until it's done. Contract killing, maybe. Edited May 31, 2020 by lana-banana 7
Yosemite Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 12:39 AM, Kiki55 said: he then added that he is concerned about how I will react when he has to remain 'single' for sometime and I won't be able to be in his life I.e. meet his family etc. Sounds like he's telling you that you're the exit affair. Like he's saying that even if he does leave, you shouldn't expect him to be your boyfriend...which is typical. Men who actually do leave their wives want to be single and sleep around, they're not eager to jump right back into a committed relationship. Just walk away. Even if he does leave his wife, you're his soft place to land...until he's healed and then he'll leave you too. You shouldn't wait until the 5th, especially with this game he's playing of keeping you in the dark because it's setting up a dynamic in the relationship where you beg to be with him, you're desperate for him, he keeps you in emotional turmoil waiting for his response just because he can. People have a need to respect the people that they love...and the behavior that you're accepting from him right now is eroding whatever respect he had for you. 3
Allupinnit Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Yeah if he was planning on leaving this Friday his wife would know too since he says they've been "separated" this whole time anyway, and he'd be eager to get that lease signed and show you.
Allupinnit Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 50 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said: I thought it was tomorrow. June 5!
Author Kiki55 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Posted June 1, 2020 Hi All. So just to clarify, the single term was a reference to how he has to portray to keep up the pretence that he is leaving her to be alone.. yes I know it's not right but thatus how he wants to play it.. So yes, Friday is D Day for proof the split and proof he is moving out and taking necessary steps to. He has just this last week been given an opportunity to move job. It's a fantastic opportunity with a very large salary increase. He has been working on preparing for the interview. Today, I struggled with just being normal with him, he asked me if I was OK and I told him that actually, I'm not. We discussed the situation and I said I'm waiting for the proof and he said, what proof do you want? How can I prove to you that I've split up with her... I said well what would you want to see if it was me? So he gave me his phone, went to WhatsApp and said read that message. It was very long, from the W. Sent this morning at 8:13 basically from my memory it said.. 10 weeks this has been going on for and at first I thought there was a chance we would get back together but I can see now that there isn't. You need to get this job and move out. You've been a wonderful husband who has provided everything for me for all these years. I don't regret anything. I wish you well... I would of said all this to your face but I know I would of cried and it's all I've been doing lately. What do we think? It was 10 weeks ago that he told me they had split.. to confirm, something I never pressured him into doing.
Amethyst68 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 I'm not saying it's not true but you do know you can create these messages really easily. There are apps you can download to do it. I'm sorry but that proves nothing. 2
elaine567 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 OK you need to prove the veracity of the message. Did she actually send it? Seems highly "convenient that she should send a message TODAY that covers all the relevant bullet points and compliments him as well... Such a wonderful husband... LOL!. Whatever happened to " I hope you rot in hell, you b^stard..."? 5
Yosemite Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Why are you ok with him keeping everything a secret until the 5th? You said that you needed proof by the 5th and that you wouldn't continually ask him for proof until then, you didn't say that he wasn't allowed to share anything with you until the 5th. So why is he keeping you in emotional turmoil when he could just show you the signed lease to relieve all your stress and doubts? Or he could just ask for your opinion on the furnished place he found. Or he could ask you to go with him when he tours places. He could ask your opinion of his new commute. But instead he keeps you on pins and needles just for the lolz? And you're ok with that? Don't be shocked that this new job opportunity becomes the excuse for why nothing substantial happens on Friday. 3
Allupinnit Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Why wouldn't she just text her own husband? Yeah, that proves nothing. I'd say I need to see a lease and keys in hand. 1
Crazelnut Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Please don't settle for an easily faked message as "proof." Real proof is something like a legal separation agreement, a motion for marriage dissolution, a signed lease. Anything less than that should be unacceptable to you. But I don't think it will matter. You'll accept whatever shreds of proof he gives you and carry on. You're too afraid to lose him. 5
Allupinnit Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Come on @Kiki55 - if he's lying to her and the kids about where he GOES every single day you can BET YOUR ASS he'd concoct some sort of WhatsApp message like that to fool you, too. He's living a double life and only a certain personality type can do that. And NOT the kind you want to be mixed up with. 3
assertives Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 "Wonderful husband." Yeah right. Lying, cheating and manipulative husband more like it. I find it suspicious that the text message is so on point and succinct almost like it was carefully drafted to fit a certain narrative, and it is also the "evidence" he specifically chooses to show you. Don't forget, he is capable of pretending where he is going everyday for work, pretending he is a faithful husband and even have plans to pretend he is single after a seperation/divorce. Pretending a whatsapp message came from his wife is well within his core competencies. True evidence is a legal seperation or divorce agreement. 2
BaileyB Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) I'm not going to say the app message is not real, nobody knows that except the two people exchanging messages. I do find it suspicious, as has been said that it conveniently answers all your questions - very "on point." The main thing that went through my mind when I read your message Kiki is that my heart hurts for you - you are having to ask for proof that this man has left his wife and family!! How did you get yourself to this point in life? You have chosen a man that you can not trust. The fact that when you told him you needed proof his answer was "what kind of proof do you want?" Again, the fact that he is not communicating openly with you, that he is indifferent to your pain and anxiety, neither of you really trusting the other right now - these are not healthy behaviors in a relationship. The chances that a healthy relationship will bloom and grow when it's started in this way have to be slim... If I may, I also found it really concerning that you are living a similar experience as your mother. Did you know about her affair before you involved yourself with this married man? And then, she put that seed of doubt into your mind - saying that she always looks back and wonders what might have happened, did she give up too soon, did she miss the opportunity... That's a sad legacy for a mother and daughter to share... Edited June 1, 2020 by BaileyB 4
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