So about masks and face coverings

[simpycurious]

I heard a very odd question posed last week........is a helmet as effective as a mask............ummmmmmmmm, that would be a resounding NO....

I have not dawned a mask thus far but it seems everyone I see is using one and most are wearing rubber gloves...

[tojaz]

47 minutes ago, carhill said:

One funny nuance is that if I were wearing my work respirator people would think that's OK, but it's really not since the outflow valve is completely unimpeded, moisture and particles flow freely out of it. The respirator with those multi-layer ginormous cartridges is designed to protect me from hazardous particles and fumes and vapors and whatever else is in the environment. I could be spewing virus everywhere, theoretically.

Had the same issue on my job. Company stated that our work respirators (3m 7500) were fine for protection despite the unfiltered outflow valve. I've used a lot of masks and have never seen one with a screen.

Not sure if it happened company wide but in my shop we ended up fashioning a filter by trimming N95s to fit the end of the exhaust port for a little added security after having a case in the shop.

[carhill]

In a controlled environment with everyone on the same gear, the industrial respirators would IMO be OK since everyone's inflow is filtered. Surface contamination can still be a problem but protocols have long been in place for such potentials if the workplace is vulnerable to them. My main inhibition has been regarding mixed environment, where some aren't protected at all but may erroneously believe a substantial respirator on another is some sort of protection for them.

After getting further updates from health.gov about tertiary symptoms, my bet is that I've been exposed somewhere along the way, been noting funny smells and tastes and tracked a mild fever a few days back. Not really sick though, I test daily working outside then checking oxygen saturation and body temp. Where I live there are no humans around, only exposure is going to town, been there twice in the last month. Those of us who've been around a long time have been through and seen a lot of sickness. My original reason for buying a respirator, now decades ago, was an allergic reaction to Tuolene and Xylene which caused me to run a fever and break out in hives all over my body. Harsh lesson.  So, stick to protocol and live life.

[sothereiwas]

Seems sort of funny but I've considered using the 6000 series full face setup to go to Costco, since they require a mask now and at least that 'mask' would prevent me absently touching my eyes. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

8 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

The freedom to travel unmolested is also an enumerated right in the 5th. 

 

Including for those breaking the law?

[sothereiwas]

6 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Including for those breaking the law?

I'm not sure if you're confused or trying to play word games. If you mean is it illegal to travel in the furtherance of an underlying crime I suppose it could be in some cases. If you're trying to go into some infinitely recursive reasoning thing, that's a waste of your time. It's probably illegal to flee the police after robbing a bank. That doesn't make a law prohibiting leaving the bank in the general case constitutional. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Just now, sothereiwas said:

I'm not sure if you're confused or trying to play word games. If you mean is it illegal to travel in the furtherance of an underlying crime I suppose it could be in some cases. If you're trying to go into some infinitely recursive reasoning thing, that's a waste of your time. It's probably illegal to flee the police after robbing a bank. That doesn't make a law prohibiting leaving the bank in the general case constitutional. 

I may be confused, yes. You just went out of your way to prove it was previously against the law - illegal - for you to travel unless essentiially. You then went on to bring up the 5th as proof that you should have been allowed to travel regardless (I think). Even if it was illegal to do so? In that case there was no underlying crime. In that case travel *was* the illegal action.

[K.K.]

Anybody notice how wearing the masks brings out the worst in people? They’re congregating in the aisles like they’re having a block party all in your space, muttering sht when you walk by, and all manners seem to be gone out the window. They’re hiding behind the masks. Like it gives them some sense of anonymity. So easy to tell someone to get the fk out the way when they can’t see your lips moving. And when I say ‘they’ I mean me. 😛 

And lord help you if you don’t wear one. Those Walmart gangstas are real. 

 

[Redhead14]

Any stranger who comes closer than 6 feet to me and without a mask is considered a threat . . . they are potentially walking weapons and I will treat them as such. 

[K.K.]

3 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Any stranger who comes closer than 6 feet to me and without a mask is considered a threat . . . they are potentially walking weapons and I will treat them as such. 

Well, I wear one. But I see the beat downs and eye rolls the other people get. I gotta tell ya though. .. there’s 0 social distancing going on here anymore. Nobody follows any rules of the store. The store doesn’t enforce them. People seriously are all up on each other. And the cashiers just pull down their masks when you’re trying to pay so they can talk to you. It can’t only be here either. I’m not worried about what other people do. Not my place to tell them anything. It’s not mandatory. I just do what I’m should be doing. I’m not going to shout at someone else for doing what they are doing. Not my place. 

[Redhead14]

4 minutes ago, K.K. said:

Well, I wear one. But I see the beat downs and eye rolls the other people get. I gotta tell ya though. .. there’s 0 social distancing going on here anymore. Nobody follows any rules of the store. The store doesn’t enforce them. People seriously are all up on each other. And the cashiers just pull down their masks when you’re trying to pay so they can talk to you. It can’t only be here either. I’m not worried about what other people do. Not my place to tell them anything. It’s not mandatory. I just do what I’m should be doing. I’m not going to shout at someone else for doing what they are doing. Not my place. 

Yes, I've heard that.  I dont go out anywhere except for a drive with my SO and we don't make any stops or to take a walk.  We order groceries in and most things online.  So far there hasn't been a reason to leave the house and I don't intend to.  I did get a delivery person fired for not wearing a mask when they made a delivery to me.  I specifically requested contactless delivery and when the delivery arrived, I opened the door expecting the delivery to be on the ground and the delivery person at least standing back away from the door, but he was right there when I opened the door.  I was pissed and called the pizza place and was told that this delivery guy will not be working there anymore.  It was the second complaint too.  I might not have called except he had a sh*tty attitude when I asked him where his mask was. 

[K.K.]

Just now, Redhead14 said:

Yes, I've heard that.  I dont go out anywhere except for a drive with my SO and we don't make any stops or to take a walk.  We order groceries in and most things online.  So far there hasn't been a reason to leave the house and I don't intend to.  I did get a delivery person fired for not wearing a mask when they made a delivery to me.  I specifically requested contactless delivery and when the delivery arrived, I opened the door expecting the delivery to be on the ground and the delivery person at least standing back away from the door, but he was right there when I opened the door.  I was pissed and called the pizza place and was told that this delivery guy will not be working there anymore.  It was the second complaint too.  I might not have called except he had a sh*tty attitude when I asked him where his mask was. 

That happened to a friend of mine too. He asked for contactless delivery from a pizza place just like you and same thing. Opened the door, guy standing there maskless talking. My friend wasn’t really agitated about that but he did muse about it and didn’t understand why they advertise contactless delivery and then don’t follow though. 

I’m really starting to think it’s all just for ‘show’ with some of these places, because it doesn’t seem like many are following through. 

Sounds like you’re trying to stay safe and think of others too, Redhead. Thanks. 🙂 

[Redhead14]

10 minutes ago, K.K. said:

I’m really starting to think it’s all just for ‘show’ with some of these places, because it doesn’t seem like many are following through. 

 

Yep, mask wearing is a circular benefit for everyone.  And, I also think its a crock of crap that wearing a mask doesn't help the wearer.  If it prevents breathing the virus out, it helps prevent breathing it in.  Nothing is a guarantee anyway but I think every bit helps. 

It's fine if they don't want to offer contactless delivery.  They don't get any business from me or my grown children who live in the area or any of my friends and neighbors that I might mention it to who are also older and/or high risk. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Redhead14

[CaliforniaGirl]

33 minutes ago, K.K. said:

Anybody notice how wearing the masks brings out the worst in people? They’re congregating in the aisles like they’re having a block party all in your space, muttering sht when you walk by, and all manners seem to be gone out the window. They’re hiding behind the masks. Like it gives them some sense of anonymity. So easy to tell someone to get the fk out the way when they can’t see your lips moving. And when I say ‘they’ I mean me. 😛 

And lord help you if you don’t wear one. Those Walmart gangstas are real. 

 

YES, I've mentioned this here but nobody answered so I thought it was just me! Last weekend we had to push through a big group...couldn't walk out onto the street. And one little girl pointed to us and said loudly, "Look, Mommy, they're wearing masks!" I was like...what the hell...LOL...I mean I didn't SAY that...

My kids were totally puzzled. It was unsettling. I told them we were doing our best and "so far so good, we're feeling well." (Putting aside that those people might be getting us sick, not the other way around...but the hell with it...I'm so tired of fighting everybody...eff it...this has brought out the worst in people...so whatever happens happens, I guess.)

Just tired of worrying about it...I'm the oldest person in my family and if anyone dies it will probably be me...maybe I'm just being selfish. I don't even know. But I have to stop worrying about this...and I hate being hated...all the time...just for wanting to live, and wanting not to kill anybody else.

 

[K.K.]

Just now, CaliforniaGirl said:

YES, I've mentioned this here but nobody answered so I thought it was just me! Last weekend we had to push through a big group...couldn't walk out onto the street

Nope, it’s not just you. I asked my friends too and they said same thing. It was actually traumatizing the other day going to the grocery store. It felt like any second there was going to be riot. The masks make them feel anonymous. I’m usually very overly polite but I found myself panicked in the large groups and I did tell someone to get the hell out of my way. Something I would normally never do. 😕 

[K.K.]

4 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Yep, mask wearing is a circular benefit for everyone.  And, I also think its a crock of crap that wearing a mask doesn't help the wearer.  If it prevents breathing the virus out, it helps prevent breathing it in.  Nothing is a guarantee anyway but I think every bit helps. 

I agree! 

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, K.K. said:

Nope, it’s not just you. I asked my friends too and they said same thing. It was actually traumatizing the other day going to the grocery store. It felt like any second there was going to be riot. The masks make them feel anonymous. I’m usually very overly polite but I found myself panicked in the large groups and I did tell someone to get the hell out of my way. Something I would normally never do. 😕 

I know what you mean. I hate what we're all becoming. I hate having had to find out what people really are. What they really think of eachother...once you take off the veneer...I think I never really wanted to know.

And having started out sensible...not afraid, just sensible...but now people are being aggressive...and yeah...it's like you say. Now...you get scared.

I hate this...

Edited May 20, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[sothereiwas]

51 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

In that case travel *was* the illegal action.

Yeah, that's an infinite recursion, fortunately the legal system has an exit clause, known as the supreme court, which is where quite a few of these restrictive EO's are headed. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

Yeah, that's an infinite recursion, fortunately the legal system has an exit clause, known as the supreme court, which is where quite a few of these restrictive EO's are headed. 

So, you're being circular.

When you want to prove your rights were denied, you're leaning on the language that proves travel was a crime.

When you want to prove freedom of travel is protected, you lean on language showing travel was not a crime.

[sothereiwas]

Just now, CaliforniaGirl said:

So, you're being circular.

Um no. The EO was likely illegal, as in unconstitutional. Ours will likely never be tested (but you never know) but very similar EOs in other states are not faring well under judicial review. 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

11 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

The freedom to travel unmolested is also an enumerated right in the 5th. 

 

OK, so there's another one that didn't work.

 

I just read in an article.

 

"You don't have a constitutional right to go to Arby's"

 

 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

2 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

They don't get any business from me or my grown children 

...  of course that's what you think

[schlumpy]

3 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

 Even if it was illegal to do so? In that case there was no underlying crime. In that case travel *was* the illegal action.

I think the operative words here are "due process." You should not be deprived of constitutional rights without due process.  

[sothereiwas]

46 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

"You don't have a constitutional right to go to Arby's"

I'm reasonably sure Justice Roberts wouldn't find your argument compelling. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

I think the operative words here are "due process." You should not be deprived of constitutional rights without due process.  

Including in an emergency situation?