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Date 1 went well, I texted for the second date and no response. What next?

rkennedynl

By rkennedynl
in Dating

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Tristian
Message added by Tristian

Folks, things went a little sideways here so I did some house cleaning and ask that we stay focused on the OPs unique situation.

We have plenty of general interest threads for general dating tips, blanket statements and pick-up lines.

While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!

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CaliforniaGirl Established Member

CaliforniaGirl

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, rjc149 said:

Every failure makes you better, not worse. This is a skill that you can learn and practice and improve. Keep stepping up to the plate.

1. I will agree with rjc on the principle of: "failure" isn't really failure, it literally is positive in that (sorry for that weird grammar) it helps you *succeed* the next time. That goes for any venture.

2. Before everyone starts searching the sky for the Four Horsemen or for flying pigs because I agreed with rjc, let me ease your alarm by now disagreeing with this one thing...not specifically stated above but as an ongoing principle that seems to always make the rounds yet somehow never seems to yield results...the guys seem to stay frustrated...

Anyway...

Sometimes no matter what you "do"...you won't have "success" with a given woman. Why? Because...well, okay, this is going to be a little alarming but bear with me here. Okay, so...we women are people. Humans. Sometimes we say no not because you didn't "prove your value," "establish dominance," "assert your masculinity," "appeal to her urge monkey branch," or blah blah, but because we...

Well...wait for it...

(deep breath)

Well...

...we choose who we actually like. Just...like. Not respond to, as cocker spaniels to a bell, but actually dig.

As far as gaining self-confidence, fine, but IMO what a lot of men miss is that women are individuals. We aren't spreadsheets and we aren't boards with buttons that you hit in the correct order. Sometimes, people in general will respond various ways to various things, for a minute anyway. Some, long-term. Others, not at all. Other times it'll all backfire.  So I put just this one suggestion to you:

Next time, just for shoots and giggles, why not try just accepting that the woman you like is a whole, complete person and she may just be making an actual, real decision? And that she's allowed to do that?

Okay, so, I was just putting that out there. I know it sounds crazy so don't worry about blowing it off. Some time in the future, perhaps try it..you never know...not to "get something out of it" or whatever...but...just to...well...see women as humans. Real humans.

Then maybe you can find your equal, your partner in crime...a woman who can blow your socks off and who wants her own blown off by you. You will never get that until you DROP ALL THE BULLs*** and REALLY SEE that woman in front of you...and...yes...let...her...choose. Just as you're choosing. What's exciting about manipulating and pushing and pulling and watching some insecure person respond (a little)? By contrast, how exciting is it to have someone be absolutely wild about you...just because you exist? Just because you live and breathe? You're you...and she can't keep her hands off you...she chose you? She REALLY wants you...she wasn't tricked into it. She wants YOU, buddy. Compare the two...am I off-base here? The latter isn't like ten thousand times cooler? And as far as self-esteem boosting...it isn't esteem-crushing to teach yourself that *the only way you can 'get' a woman is by rules and trickery*? Like...that wouldn't put any person eventually into a black pit of depression? Bluh.

It sounds nutty to think of women as human beings rather than limbic systems above reproductive organs but you know what...desperate times call for desperate measures. Toss caution to the wind and try something totally crazy! You never know until you try.

Good luck with whatver you do. ❤️

Edited by CaliforniaGirl
  • Like 3
balletomane Established Member

balletomane

Posted
Posted (edited)

I  Related to CaliforniaGirl's point, I personally would find some of the behaviour recommended to OP (such as going on dates with the intention of "escalating to sex") as unattractive. I think it's a bit of a No True Scotsman fallacy to suggest that if it's unattractive, it's obviously not true masculinity. There are women who don't like men who arrive on Date 2 or 3 with the assumption that "adults have sex" and anything else is high school behaviour, or who plan the early dates with the belief that it's their role to make the decisions, and so on. This is why all guidance is subjective, and men who try these things and don't get what they want should be prepared to consider that it isn't because they're just not 'alpha' and dominant enough, but because they were with a woman who is simply not attracted to that way of behaving.

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed redacted quote
  • Like 1
elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted

It all just game playing and whilst the naive, the vulnerable and the damaged will not know any better, then this whole trying to make so called  alphas out of so called betas is nonsense.
The OP who prior to all this was the guy with the silver tongue. is now supposed to be snarky, be distant and treat women like bratty little sisters and push them into sex...
Yeah great....
I am sure that will make all very happy...
 

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rkennedynl Member

rkennedynl

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

It all just game playing and whilst the naive, the vulnerable and the damaged will not know any better, then this whole trying to make so called  alphas out of so called betas is nonsense.
The OP who prior to all this was the guy with the silver tongue. is now supposed to be snarky, be distant and treat women like bratty little sisters and push them into sex...
Yeah great....
I am sure that will make all very happy...
 

Yeah, if I play games and act like someone I’m not it will show.

 

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rkennedynl Member

rkennedynl

Posted
  • Author
Posted
8 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

1. I will agree with rjc on the principle of: "failure" isn't really failure, it literally is positive in that (sorry for that weird grammar) it helps you *succeed* the next time. That goes for any venture.

2. Before everyone starts searching the sky for the Four Horsemen or for flying pigs because I agreed with rjc, let me ease your alarm by now disagreeing with this one thing...not specifically stated above but as an ongoing principle that seems to always make the rounds yet somehow never seems to yield results...the guys seem to stay frustrated...

Anyway...

Sometimes no matter what you "do"...you won't have "success" with a given woman. Why? Because...well, okay, this is going to be a little alarming but bear with me here. Okay, so...we women are people. Humans. Sometimes we say no not because you didn't "prove your value," "establish dominance," "assert your masculinity," "appeal to her urge monkey branch," or blah blah, but because we...

Well...wait for it...

(deep breath)

Well...

...we choose who we actually like. Just...like. Not respond to, as cocker spaniels to a bell, but actually dig.

As far as gaining self-confidence, fine, but IMO what a lot of men miss is that women are individuals. We aren't spreadsheets and we aren't boards with buttons that you hit in the correct order. Sometimes, people in general will respond various ways to various things, for a minute anyway. Some, long-term. Others, not at all. Other times it'll all backfire.  So I put just this one suggestion to you:

Next time, just for shoots and giggles, why not try just accepting that the woman you like is a whole, complete person and she may just be making an actual, real decision? And that she's allowed to do that?

Okay, so, I was just putting that out there. I know it sounds crazy so don't worry about blowing it off. Some time in the future, perhaps try it..you never know...not to "get something out of it" or whatever...but...just to...well...see women as humans. Real humans.

Then maybe you can find your equal, your partner in crime...a woman who can blow your socks off and who wants her own blown off by you. You will never get that until you DROP ALL THE BULLs*** and REALLY SEE that woman in front of you...and...yes...let...her...choose. Just as you're choosing. What's exciting about manipulating and pushing and pulling and watching some insecure person respond (a little)? By contrast, how exciting is it to have someone be absolutely wild about you...just because you exist? Just because you live and breathe? You're you...and she can't keep her hands off you...she chose you? She REALLY wants you...she wasn't tricked into it. She wants YOU, buddy. Compare the two...am I off-base here? The latter isn't like ten thousand times cooler? And as far as self-esteem boosting...it isn't esteem-crushing to teach yourself that *the only way you can 'get' a woman is by rules and trickery*? Like...that wouldn't put any person eventually into a black pit of depression? Bluh.

It sounds nutty to think of women as human beings rather than limbic systems above reproductive organs but you know what...desperate times call for desperate measures. Toss caution to the wind and try something totally crazy! You never know until you try.

Good luck with whatver you do. ❤️

Have you ever reflected on why you are attracted  to specific people and others just turn you off?

 

 I’m sure we can all agree neediness is not sexy :)

 

rjc149 Established Member

rjc149

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, rkennedynl said:

Yeah, if I play games and act like someone I’m not it will show.

 

Don’t play games or be inauthentic. That’s not attractive. Again, just be confident, masculine, assertive, and be a leader. Be warm, charming, funny, and a little cocky. No games my man. 

rjc149 Established Member

rjc149

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, balletomane said:

There are women who don't like men who arrive on Date 2 or 3 with the assumption that "adults have sex" and anything else is high school behaviour

It’s safe to assume an adult woman who spends an afternoon French-kissing a man would be open to his sexual advances. Moreover, it’s safe to assume that a woman throwing herself at a man who will not escalate with her will find his lack of assertiveness and dominance a turn off. Or, wonder if he finds her all that attractive.  And be turned off.

I think there is a “not all women” fallacy pervasive in the various responses and retorts to my posts. We’re talking about odds and numbers in dating, not universal absolutes.

Edited by rjc149
rjc149 Established Member

rjc149

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rkennedynl said:

 If what I desire is a strong confident women then I must be a strong confident man.  Like attracts like.

 

Dating is a numbers game. It's playing the odds. By being a strong, confident man, you don't get any and every girl you desire. You simply increase your chances with more women, give yourself more options, and are better able to find the right one for you.

Confidence can be acquired, and it will make you better with women. That starts by mimicking the behaviors of a confident man until they are internalized as second nature. 

 

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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Snow_Queen Established Member

Snow_Queen

Posted
Posted (edited)

The advice being given by some is just astounding. Dating really isn’t that complicated.

This lady sounds fickle and doesn’t even know what she wants. You’re willing to bend yourself a million different ways to keep her hooked. There’s no need to take PUA advice. Ask yourself why you want to work so hard to interest someone who’s not particularly excited about you?

It has nothing to do with you not asserting yourself or not showing you’re “high value”. Don’t allow her to waste your time and move on to the next. It’s that simple.

To be honest, I had to put up with a lot of fickle men or those who tried to be very alpha. I didn’t like that behavior. So, I moved on to men who were comfortable communicating openly who didn’t play games. Eventually, I met the man I married.

Edited by Snow_Queen
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Emilie Jolie Established Member

Emilie Jolie

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

It’s safe to assume an adult woman who spends an afternoon French-kissing a man would be open to his sexual advances.

Besides the fact that it's never safe to assume anything in dating, and that there is no magic 'alpha' formula that suits all communication styles and all situations, after weeks on lockdown, many will be starved of intimacy. Kissing is a relatively safe way to get intimate without pressure or too much emotional commitment, and this doesn't need to lead anywhere.

There are a number of reasons this may or may not work for our OP that have nothing to do with being too 'alpha' or too 'beta' (even the vernacular is grating).

rkennedynl, do it your way; learn from your own mistakes and experiences through your own trials and errors, you don't need someone to hold your hand through this. 

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poppyfields Established Member

poppyfields

Posted
Posted (edited)

Be your true authentic and genuine self, be strong and confident, but develop a backbone, strong boundaries, don't allow women to jerk you around, and when women act wishy-washy and flaky like this girl, move the hell on.

All these strategies and techniques for getting the girl, UNLESS a man truly possess those qualities, unless it's part of his basic nature to behave that way, maybe like James Bond or something, lol, then they're disingenuous and phony at best, manipulative and deceiving at worst. 

Some may have a hard time grasping this, but to what CG posted, it's not about XYZ behaviours and strategies, it's about energy.  Energy generating between two people regardless of how you "act." 

And it's either there or it's not, it cannot be forced, or manufactured through certain strategies.

Sure, on a superficial short term basis, a man will yield positive results with certain women, which is why the PUA sites are so popular among men. And that is fine IF that is what a man is seeking. 

But if a man wants something substantive and long term, then be your true authentic self even if it's a little awkward.

I recall falling HARD for a guy, really hard, right from the first meet, who was confident even brash, but who also displayed a bit of vulnerability and insecurity. 

My reaction?  I fell in love with him almost immediately thereafter. It was our second date! 

When the energy is there, that type of honesty and openness is extremely attractive, emotionally and sexually.  We were together several years. 

When you meet a woman, get a feel for the energy between you. How things flow, naturally, genuinely.

Imo, feeling comfortable is NOT a bad thing at all.  Not when the energy/chemistry is right which again cannot be forced or manufactured by contrived behaviours in an attempt to elicit a desired response. 

 

 

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
content relating to removed posts
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Tristian Established Member

Tristian

Posted
Posted

After a second clean up I will again direct everyone to the message at top (In bright orange for your convenience).

CaliforniaGirl Established Member

CaliforniaGirl

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, rkennedynl said:

Have you ever reflected on why you are attracted  to specific people and others just turn you off?

 

 I’m sure we can all agree neediness is not sexy :)

 

I think I know why I’m attracted to certain people. Usually the people I’m attracted to are smart, funny and warm/passionate.

I’ve never considered calling the next day “needy.” I always thought it was exciting when I was into someone and he was into me. The guys who sort of jus waited felt “meh” to me. If I was going to have to squeeze enthusiasm out of somebody I just wasn’t into it. It just seemed boring to me. Like he was sort of just passionless or something. Maybe a low sex drive. Or maybe not, maybe just not into me specifically. But either way, just not revving hot enough for me. Why date a guy I was going to have to coax? Or wait around for?

confident guys don’t play stupid games. They cheerfully go for it because what do they have to lose, plus they seem to pretty much expect a positive response.

Edited by CaliforniaGirl
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Emilie Jolie Established Member

Emilie Jolie

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, rkennedynl said:

I’m sure we can all agree neediness is not sexy :)

 

To me, neediness is 'I've left you several messages today, it only takes a few seconds to reply, does this mean you don't like me anymore?,' not 'hey, it was nice spending time with you yesterday, would love to see you again - let me know when you're free in the next couple of days so we can arrange something fun to do'.

It doesn't make you needy to give it your best shot; when you sense the other person isn't as keen as you are is time to step back, no matter how much you like them or how much you want it to work.

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CaliforniaGirl Established Member

CaliforniaGirl

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

To me, neediness is 'I've left you several messages today, it only takes a few seconds to reply, does this mean you don't like me anymore?,' not 'hey, it was nice spending time with you yesterday, would love to see you again - let me know when you're free in the next couple of days so we can arrange something fun to do'.

It doesn't make you needy to give it your best shot; when you sense the other person isn't as keen as you are is time to step back, no matter how much you like them or how much you want it to work.

This. :D "Where ARE you?" - third call that day = neediness + run girl run (or run boy run). "Had a great time last night, want to do it again?" the next day = Hey. He had a great time last night. He wants to do it again.

Go figure. :D

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rjc149 Established Member

rjc149

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

To me, neediness is 'I've left you several messages today, it only takes a few seconds to reply, does this mean you don't like me anymore?,'

That's not just needy, that's clingy and obsessive. That's the kind of guy who's going to be lurking the shadows near your apartment if you dump him. 

Sending a message later that evening after a good date with "hey, I had a great time tonight, hope to see you again soon" is a great idea. I do it all the time -- in fact I make it a point to do that. After I get a girl's number, I always send a text later "hey it was great meeting you tonight, hope to see you again!" Not needy at all. 

I DO think, however, that calling a girl the next day after a good date, asking "hey what are you up today? Want to meet up again?" is needy.

Attraction grows in space. I do think it's important for the OP to convey, in his words and actions, that he is a busy, high value guy who has a life, is in demand, and is not going to drop everything he's got going on for a girl. When a girl asks him to jump, his response should playfully replying "no, how about YOU jump!" not "how high?"

 

Edited by rjc149
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dangerous Established Member

dangerous

Posted
Posted (edited)

"I DO think, however, that calling a girl the next day after a good date, asking "hey what are you up today? Want to meet up again?" is needy. "

That's ridiculous. How is that needy? It seems pretty natural and authentic to me. I'd be interested to hear what the majority of ladies make of it?

But back to the OP post, if you ask and don't get a response or they make excuses, then indeed they are not interested. 

Edited by dangerous
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SumGuy Established Member

SumGuy

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, dangerous said:

"I DO think, however, that calling a girl the next day after a good date, asking "hey what are you up today? Want to meet up again?" is needy. "

That's ridiculous. How is that needy? It seems pretty natural and authentic to me. I'd be interested to hear what the majority of ladies make of it?

But back to the OP post, if you ask and don't get a response or they make excuses, then indeed they are not interested. 

Agreed.   It’s perfectly natural, good to have an idea of something to do.   Some would even call it romantic and exciting, pretty sure the R word though doesn’t exist in the PUA playbook....they'll tell you it’s a word to sell nylons. 
 

When young we had plenty of ability to do on the spur of the moment, now that older may preface with “ know it’s last minute...”

can say have never had her think less of me with the next day ask out, if she couldn't do last minute always proposed a day that worked

The PUA mentality has no idea what insecure, needy, or clingy really is, hence the rules and ridiculously low bar they set.  It really is just a bunch of BS meant to salve the ego when things go south because they can’t grasp that women are people, and not some skinnerian sex box.  

Edited by SumGuy
poppyfields Established Member

poppyfields

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, rjc149 said:

Attraction grows in space. 

That's your frame mate, not necessarily a woman's.  

Agree men (many not all) need space, distance.

I've read it and experienced it - men often fall in love though distance.  Women fall in love though togetherness. 

Yin and yang, it's one of the biggest challenges to relationships in today's dating environment!

I don't know the type of women you date rjc149, but IF there is a very high attraction/energy/chemistry on that first date (which is typically how it goes for many women, they're either feeling it or they're not), calling her the next day, asking to get together, is NOT going to turn her off.  It's just not, ask any woman who fell hard for a man on a first date. 

IF she is on the fence about you, has a sort of meh attitude, then YES agree!  Calling her the next day asking her out again might turn her off, she may consider it like you said -- needy. 

When the reality is, she just wasn't into you in the first place. 

With a meh woman on the fence, waiting would be best because you are creating "challenge." 

But challenge is not the same as genuine attraction and interest.  Those things cannot be manufactured through strategies or game playing. 

Remove the challenge, the interest goes too for a lot of women.

I dunno carry on, I suspect you're unable to relate to much of what I'm saying anyway.  No biggee.

Edited by poppyfields
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elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted

I rarely see women IRL or on here complaining that their man is too needy, not unless they themselves are not feeling it, but plenty women complain about cold, distant and emotionally unavailable men.
Most of the women in the OW section are cheating not because they feel smothered by clingy men, but because their man is cold and distant and the connection is lost.
Enter a warm and friendly and often emotionally vulnerable  MM and they are putty in his hands...

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OnlyHonesty Established Member

OnlyHonesty

Posted
Posted
Quote

I told her I have to go but don't worry she would see me again. 

 

After looking at your overall behavior, and the text messages, I'd say that your problem is that you have a scarcity mindset. If you look at rjc149's responses and his overall attitude, you can see it is an abundance mindset.  Her asking what you bring to the table doesn't make much sense at such an early on stage either, you've just had 1 date. That is something you discover after a bit of connecting, conversation and dating. To ask it so early smells like a s*** test to me. As someone else mentioned, it could be cultural, but I'm not buying it...s*** tests are universal...and your compliance would have been a fail.

The question about whether you were insecure about not having a Degree is something I consider a redflag. That says more about the asker...

 

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Miss Spider Established Member

Miss Spider

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think she’s just not that interested, sorry. I have written messages more enthusiastic than that following up a date with someone I had lukewarm interest in. Personally, I’ve stopped doing it as I’ve matured, but people still do it.   It’s probably not incredibly common,, but I doubt it’s that rare. I also don’t think it’s intentionally meant to mislead.  People get swept up in the moment. Sometimes people are talking to others who grabbed their attention more.  Sometimes people aren’t 100% into it, , but don’t want to  send a “ Meh. The date was ok, but I’m not feeling it 100.. Stick around for awhile and I’ll get back to you, ” follow up text. It’s just seems better  to send a nice message and keep the ball rolling in case. There’s two sides to every date and you may think the spark was there for you, but maybe it just wasn’t for her.  I think you should just move on. There are others who would be excited to see you again.  
 

edit: I just read the other posts  in the thread (initially, just read OP) and she told you she was “deciding” FACEPALM. Home girl, that was TMI... but I guess she was just being honest... 

Edited by Cookiesandough
Calmandfocused Established Member

Calmandfocused

Posted
Posted

Interesting that the men seem to think that waiting to express interest is the best option whilst the women (myself included) are clear that this is not an affective dating strategy. 
 

This mis communication from the offset is one of the reasons why dating is so hard these days. 
 

Op, you need to do what you feel is best but I’ll just add one thing: 

 

If you wait to express interest in me I’ll think you’re lukewarm. If I think you’re lukewarm I won’t give you a second date. Not only that but I’ll think you’re playing games and quite frankly: I’d rather date a man who I believe is consistent and genuine from the offset. 
 

That doesn’t make me needy. That makes me smart. Why would I want to date you - Mr Lukewarm -when I have other options available? 
 

Just something to think about. 

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Miss Spider Established Member

Miss Spider

Posted
Posted (edited)

Seriously! If a guy waited more than a day, I’d assume I’m a back up option and be out. . Why is it so hard to just be normal ? Don’t p-pander, but don’t strategize when to ask someone out if you like them. Most smart women can tell you’re doing that from a mile away anyway. Actually upping your SMV instead of artificially inflating it with games is better strategy, especially long term. The latter is fake and hard if not impossible to sustain. Think of all the time you’re wasting orchestrating how to trick someone into thinking you’re confident and attractive instead of working on really becoming that 

Edited by Cookiesandough
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poppyfields Established Member

poppyfields

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said:

Think of all the time you’re wasting orchestrating how to trick someone into thinking you’re confident and attractive instead of working on really becoming that. 

Omg, cookies!!!   That is so spot on!  With a high quality woman who values herself, and is in fact interested, that sort of game will actually work against a man.

Which brings me back to something I posted earlier - that game might work, and apparently does work for some men, but only on women who either have low self esteem and don't value themselves or a woman seeking a "challenge" versus a "boyfriend." 

If that's the game a man wants to play versus making an actual connection that will last and lead to a LTR, feel free!  

Not my circus not my monkey.  

Edited by poppyfields
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