He is playing hot and cold now after 2 months? Slow fade?

[rjc149]

5 minutes ago, allofyou said:

That’s awful. I used to be like that but now I tend to just withdraw myself when I feel anxious but I try as hard as I could to remain calm so things would look like it’s normal. 
I do appreciate that people need space. I didn’t mind him not texting me for a couple of days as I needed that myself too. And I tend to take hours sometimes a day to reply myself as I don’t like to feel pressured to have to reply a message. Or I just don’t feel like talking. I guess it’s then weird for me to feel anxious when he’s doing the same. then my mind just happened to wander into the “is he just fading on me?” territory. 

I guess I don't know what your relationship with him is like when you're together -- is it overtly romantic, with snuggling and petting, kissing, affection, etc. or is it more of a casual "hanging out and hooking up at night" vibe? Because if this feels more like a FWB thing, then yes it's likely he's beginning to pump the brakes because he may feel you're getting too close. 

[poppyfields]

42 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Anxiously attached people require consistent, if not constant, reassurance and emotional support, and are hyper-vigilant to any perceived sign of distancing, rejection, and abandonment. A simple 1-2 day lapse in communication, or a minor disruption in communication routine, can trigger abandonment panic that they struggle to self-soothe. 

 

Good lordy that^ is definitely not me and never was even dating as a teen and early 20s.

Might be because I had such a great relationship with my dad who always gave me so much love and support, but who knows, could just be my nature, I'm an introvert also.

rjc149, question for you.  It appears you have a history of attracting and having relationships with anxious needy women, which triggers your avoidant tendencies.

What do you think would happen if you met a woman as avoidant as yourself, more so even, would that in turn cause YOU to become the anxious attached? 

I've read about that.  That an avoidant in one relationship could become anxious in the next depending on the woman's behavioir and attachment style. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by poppyfields

[allofyou]

11 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

I guess I don't know what your relationship with him is like when you're together -- is it overtly romantic, with snuggling and petting, kissing, affection, etc. or is it more of a casual "hanging out and hooking up at night" vibe? Because if this feels more like a FWB thing, then yes it's likely he's beginning to pump the brakes because he may feel you're getting too close. 

No it’s more a relationship feel with lots of affection and getting to know each other. 

[Malin889]

4 hours ago, allofyou said:

Sometimes I did think it might be best to keep some distance during this pandemic as I didn’t want to bore him with my chats too much. I don’t know whether he’s thinking the same or he is just fading on me. I’ve never had someone fade on me before after even just 3 dates. I can’t imagine how horrible thar would he. 

You’ve never had anyone fade on you? How do things normally end when you’re seeing someone? Don’t get me wrong, I think that’s great, I hate being ghosted/faded on. I just feel like the fading/ghosting has become so common lately. 

[rjc149]

59 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Might be because I had such a great relationship with my dad who always gave me so much love and support, but who knows, could just be my nature, I'm an introvert also.

A woman's relationship with her father is often going to determine how she relates to men in her romantic life -- hence the sage male dating wisdom to seek women with good relationships with their fathers, and to avoid women with daddy issues. I've found this to be true in my own dating experience. The woman I mentioned above on this thread frequently expressed open contempt for her father, who was domineering, emotionally abusive and abandoned the family early on. Her need for me to 'prove' my love for her and to constantly reassure her that I was there for her unfortunately meant a tough slog for me through lots of her tests and BS. 

I would say my avoidant tendencies triggers the anxiety in women I've dated, rather than the reverse. In my experience dating avoidants as a younger man, yes they would rattle my ego and compel me to chase more (more likely because they weren't that interested in me, not because they were avoidant). On a few occascions, me and an avoidant lover would simply fade out on each other lol. I'm currently casually seeing a woman who I would describe as secure-avoidant. We don't spend lots of time texting unnecessarily, usually just to set the time and place to meet up maybe 2-3 times per week. I like it just fine. 

[Miss Spider]

personally, I think this avoidant/anxious attached stuff is abused almost as much as the word narcissist for normal human behavior or just not being that interested.

[rjc149]

1 hour ago, allofyou said:

No it’s more a relationship feel with lots of affection and getting to know each other. 

Hmm. If there has been a dramatic shift in his communication mode, something is probably going on. I would address it in a very non-pushy, almost casual way. Not a "we need to talk" confrontation type of thing. The next time you're talking to him (in person or on the phone) just bring it up as concern. "Hey, I've noticed you've been a little distant lately, not sure if anything was wrong or not, just wondering." 

[rjc149]

8 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

personally, I think this avoidant/anxious attached stuff is abused almost as much as the word narcissist for normal human behavior or just not being that interested.

Misapplication or overuse of the terminology doesn't discredit its validity. But yes I agree 100% that it's easy to label and dismiss the people with scientific terminology to protect our egos. It's much easier to label an ex as 'narcissistic' or a prospect who isn't interested as 'avoidant' and shift the culpability onto them.  
 

[poppyfields]

rjc149, I’m intrigued by your knowledge and insight!

You’ve touched on reasons why women can become anxiously attached (abandonment by dad for one), do you have any insight as to what would cause someone, such as yourself, to become an avoidant?  Or what some folks would describe as commitmentphobic?

@cookies, fear of intimacy, fear of commitment are very real fears for some people.  It’s not just a matter of meeting the “right” person, for many of these folks, there is no “right” person, there will always be something “wrong” in their mind.   It’s their fear talking.

I’ve also read that avoidants/commitment phobes will intentionally choose people who are wrong for them, the anxiously attached for example, precisely because it’s just so wrong, there is no chance of ever committing to such person.

Not consciously but it's quite common for an avoidant and an anxious attached person to get together and I've often wondered why. 

It may be because, even though the avoidant knows it's all wrong, it nevertheless feels safe.  No chance of ever committing. 

Could be the same for the anxiously attached as well, the avoidant's fears active, the anxious person's passive.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

oh I'm not saying it doesn't exist. It's thought to stem from some pretty poor parenting. I'm just saying I don't think it's as prevalent as a lot of people make it to be and much of this can be explained as  normal /healthy human behavior and the person would react completely differently if they were interested in the person etc.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Versacehottie]

4 hours ago, allofyou said:

But what if it rinses and repeats with all other guys?  I’m getting really tired of dating 

Don't think like that--it will color your interactions and have you settling and lowering your standards...and being afraid to have conversations that you have every right to have.  Think "curiosity" and "wanting to understand him better" rather than demanding an explanation or a confrontation type feeling. Come from a place of abundance not lack.  

[poppyfields]

22 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

oh I'm not saying it doesn't exist. It's thought to stem from some pretty poor parenting. I'm just saying I don't think it's as prevalent as a lot of people make it to be and much of this can be explained as  normal /healthy human behavior and the person would react completely differently if they were interested in the person etc.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then cookie.  Because it's often the case that the more interested a person is, the stronger their feelings, the stronger their fears and the stronger their need to pull back or flat out run away.

I know this isn't logical and defies common sense and even normal human behaviour, but nothing is logical or normal about such fears and anxieties, they can be paralyzing for some people.

There's been a lot of research done supporting this cookies, I've read much of it.

Sadly, it is becoming more and more common, I'll agree with you there. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by poppyfields

[smackie9]

Ok.. out there, there are those who are naturally hot/cold personalities, and has nothing to do with whom they are dating. Is it anxiety? possibly. Is it insecurity? could be, but whatever it is that makes them this way, there is no changing their dynamic. Most Psychologists recommend you run for the hills from this type. All it does is puts you into an unhealthy mental state of uncertainty, anxiety/worry and insecurity. Why date someone who makes you feel that that? and then beat yourself up for it?

No you date those who treat you the way you want to be treated fully...not sometimes, or some days but not on other days.  Stand back and have a good look.

Edited April 16, 2020 by smackie9

[Miss Spider]

One of my ex had a fwb type who wrote me he was avoidant...but to me he wa clingy af, pressured me to marry etc... 

Now could his feelings have been so strong for her that he got scared and for me they were lesser so he was able to show them? Perhaps, but I tend to support Occam's razor and feel that he just didn't like her that much.(Probably bc she seemed freaking crazy) Anyway, I don't believe most people are not that pathological or crippled by emotional fear of intimacy. I've read a little on it too. Most people are not emotionally abused as children or traumatized so they are not afraid of intimacy.

 

Also, I have been called avoidant a lot, and I am certainly not. Losing interest for awhile for any reason, including clinginess, is not avoidant...Under the right conditions with the right person I have no issues

Agree to disagree, yes  different opinions helps makes the world an interesting place.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Emilie Jolie]

5 hours ago, rjc149 said:

I either don't text daily, and/or my texts are just simple "hey how are you" or something similar. /..../ I'm just not wired to oblige

My SO and I communicate exactly like this. I vaguely remember doing one of those attachment test things; it came up as secure. I've always behaved in the same manner in all my RLs, most guys I was with were fine with that level of communication. A fair few women I know would be totally fine with this too, and not all of them had a stable RL with their fathers. I agree w cookies on this, I think it's more about finding a partner that is compatible with your communication style, not necessarily anything to do with the anxious-avoidant-secure paradigm.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I agree w cookies on this, I think it's more about finding a partner that is compatible with your communication style, not necessarily anything to do with the anxious-avoidant-secure paradigm.

Just wanted to chime in again to say I agree with this^ - that's it not always necessarily the case.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, it depends on the person and situation. 

Nothing is ever so black and white to say it's always about someone being interested/not interested enough or it's always about someone being an avoidant or having commitment fears.

There's a big shade of gray in there that allows for any number of reasons why a particular person might run and another might not.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by poppyfields

[smackie9]

After rereading the OP, it looks like interest is slipping away. He's not hot/cold...he went from hot to lukewarm. That is something to take note on. She's right things should be heating up, not slowing down. I don't think this is "his communication style"....he's fading imo, but keeping her interest just enough while he has his options open.

[allofyou]

Just little update: so since I started this post, we talked for a bit last night and he asked me to hang out this weekend. Today things has been semi normal from his side. I don’t particularly feel like chatting. And normally I chat a lot more in texts than him whereas he is very talkative in real life. I tried to text as normally as I would but I am feeling like withdrawing myself. I am anxious avoidant in a way that I often go through stages where I feel anxious about things first without showing it (normally due to changes in their behaviours or general sense of insecurity) and then go into withdrawal mode where I feel like not seeing him again. 

I’ve talked to my friend about this and she advised me to stop talking to him until I see him for the weekend. I don’t know why but I feel like inherently our connection maybe is not strong enough for me to feel secure and anything like changes in behaviours from his part, even just a little particularly when we are not official, made me want to just withdraw myself from the situation. I don’t know if I sound a tad dramatic but just trying to put what I’m feeling in words 

[Allupinnit]

You are anxious because he's treating you like a booty call.  You go over, hang out, get intimate then you go home and he reaches out when he wants to see you the next time, nothing more.  

Men are very good at being in the moment.  I once dated a guy who would even fix things around my house but didn't want to commit and I had to let him go after a couple of months because I get attached.  There's nothing wrong with that - most people are not wired for FWB.

[LB2016]

20 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then cookie.  Because it's often the case that the more interested a person is, the stronger their feelings, the stronger their fears and the stronger their need to pull back or flat out run away.

I know this isn't logical and defies common sense and even normal human behaviour, but nothing is logical or normal about such fears and anxieties, they can be paralyzing for some people.

There's been a lot of research done supporting this cookies, I've read much of it.

Sadly, it is becoming more and more common, I'll agree with you there. 

Poppy, I would love to read up on it myself because I do find it quite interesting. I feel my cousin suffers from this and I often try to “figure him out.”

Could you please share some sources or sites where you have found your research? I would appreciate it!

[allofyou]

35 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

You are anxious because he's treating you like a booty call.  You go over, hang out, get intimate then you go home and he reaches out when he wants to see you the next time, nothing more.  

Men are very good at being in the moment.  I once dated a guy who would even fix things around my house but didn't want to commit and I had to let him go after a couple of months because I get attached.  There's nothing wrong with that - most people are not wired for FWB.

I actually have to disagree that he treats me like a booty call. He’s shown interests in many ways and everything we do is more couply than FWB and he told me he’s looking for a serious relationship. Ofc he could be lying but I don’t want to assume the worst of people. 

tbh I posted this thread not because I wanted to figure out what is going on in his head. An internet stranger can’t tell me that. It’s more for my thought process. 

[allofyou]

26 minutes ago, LB2016 said:

Poppy, I would love to read up on it myself because I do find it quite interesting. I feel my cousin suffers from this and I often try to “figure him out.”

Could you please share some sources or sites where you have found your research? I would appreciate it!

I am exactly like how she describes. It’s been an odd week with some changes in our communication and he asked to see me this weekend but I feel that I want to run away. 
 

If you’re interested, you can read up ok anxious avoidant attachment. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by allofyou

[rjc149]

21 hours ago, poppyfields said:

rjc149, I’m intrigued by your knowledge and insight!

You’ve touched on reasons why women can become anxiously attached (abandonment by dad for one), do you have any insight as to what would cause someone, such as yourself, to become an avoidant?  Or what some folks would describe as commitmentphobic?

I'm not sure, and this is something I've considered seeking psychotherapy to unpack and get to the root of why I am this way. Generally speaking, my father expressed love for his family by being a stable paternal presence and a good provider, but never expressed affection. To this day he is visibly uncomfortable and squeemish with "I love you" and hugs and kissing etc. If someone tripped or cut themselves in the kitchen, he would simply ask if medical attention was required, and if not, go back to doing whatever he was doing. His father was an abusive Irish alcoholic, causing my dad to emotionally withdraw to protect himself, so that sort of trauma gets passed down. 

Commitmentphobia I believe is more of a function of our current society and dating culture, where a man having numerous sex partners is encouraged and glorified, and indeed a measure of a his worth. The mentality of 'having options' ingrained in formative years, combined with the longevity of male SMV (sexual market value), and the hazards of marriage, cause many men to hesitate and be reluctant about settling down into monogamy. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by rjc149

[rjc149]

21 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I think it's more about finding a partner that is compatible with your communication style, not necessarily anything to do with the anxious-avoidant-secure paradigm.

You're right, but I would say that one's attachment style is often going to influence their communication style. An argument can be made that there is a causal relationship between attachment and communication needs. Anxious people tend to want more communication, avoidants less, and securely attached people are comfortable with either. Thus, anxious and avoidants tend to be less compatible with each other, and securely attached people tend to be ideal for everyone. Generally speaking, of course. Nothing is ever neatly folded into a single category. 

[Emilie Jolie]

Ok, that makes sense. My own personal theory is that anxious or avoidant people are in fact people who keep repeating the same RL mistakes or patterns, which reinforces their traits. An 'avoidant' person can learn to make the effort to communicate better with a suitable partner who expresses their needs in a non-confrontational way. Similarly, an anxious person can learn to let loose and relax a little with a partner who listens to their needs. All it takes is the right person.

As far as your situation allofyou, your anxiety might be triggered by your instincts telling you this guy's not the right guy for you. Likely nothing sinister in it; you're just on different pages. Talking might help?