can my relationship survive

[manfool]

I could do with some advise please. I have been with my gf for over 20 years we are both 43, we have had a great life together with four great kids. About 2 years ago she started having some health problems, and these have continued even to now. They have caused her constant aches also even to now. Every time something was sorted something else reared its head. 6 months ago she told me there would be no more intimacy, she just didn't want that in our relationship while she was feeling the way she was. I thought I respected her decision, i now realise I didn't. After about a month or so I let the little demons in my head convince me there was more to her decision than she was making out. She was losing weight, was happy with her friends and grumpy with me. I would not say I badgered her for intimacy but I definitely reminded her how important it was to me. It was very selfish of me and I'm not afraid to say I'm ashamed of how I behaved. I now know she was putting on a front to everyone else and I was letting her down by not being there for her and supporting her the way she needed. To make matters worse I made the fatal decision to go through her stuff and see if there was anything to back up the paronia l had that she could be cheating/ not love me/ or even if there was something seriously wrong with her health. I know how low that was of me, and I also know how trustworthy honest and just all round nice she is. That's why I still don't know why I did it. I told her I had done it during an argument we were having and I believe it has ruined our relationship. She now says she doesn't love me and she thinks we are over. I am still in the house and am doing everything I can to fix this. I tell her everyday I love her, I leave notes around the hose, I'm on the chores in a big way. I see to the kids so that she gets a break and I also tell her EVERYDAY how sorry I am. Do you think I have ruined my relationship beyond repair. I believe we are soulmates and I have always thought we would be the couple holding hands in the park in our 90's. I need to fix this.

[FMW]

Your partner unilaterally deciding to cut out intimacy in your relationship would make anyone a little nuts, and yes, it's natural to be suspicious.  Snooping is never good, but it's not surprising you felt the urge to do so in this situation.  

Has she stopped doing other activities that she used to do, or is it just sex that she has stopped?  If she's not well and in pain it's understandable that she wouldn't be thinking about sex, but then it would also exhibit itself with other activities.  If it's just sex, then you're right to wonder if something else is up.  

Have you discussed going to counseling together?  No matter what the truth is you need to be able to each communicate your feelings about what's going on, a neutral third party might help.  

[ExpatInItaly]

She can't exactly just announce that there will be no more intimacy and expect you will accept it without a peep. That is not realistic for a romantic couple. It is not selfish to try to keep some form of intimacy alive. 

If she struggles with health problems that inhibit her ability to engage in certain acts, it is understandable that she cannot be sexually active in the way she once was. However, a couple needs to talk about other ways to keep intimacy alive even if the physical aspects are not doable for a while. There is emotional intimacy, hugs, kisses and so on. Had she talked about any of this with her doctor, in terms what is or is not safe for her, health-wise? 

As for what's happening now - you can't fix this by yourself. She needs to be open to meeting you halfway for this to get back on track. Snooping was not okay. And neither is effectively shutting down all intimacy without exploring alternatives. She has a role in this, too, even if she's currently shifting all the blame on you. My guess is that she's been emotionally detaching for a while and the lack of communication about the intimacy issues was a symptom of it. Snooping isn't great, and I get why it upset her, but to throw out a 20-year-partnership over it seems extreme. As FMW asks, would you two be open to counselling? There is more going on here than a one-time invasion of privacy. 

 

[manfool]

I have suggested seeing a councillor but unsurprisingly she won't have it. She is a fiercely independent and private person (always has been). The illnesses in my opinion have caused her great anxiety over her health. She is also become quite depressed but is so good at hiding everything emotionally from everyone. Her family do not live in the country and I think that has increased the problem because she is very close to them, and she doesn't want to worry them. Her friends are completely unaware of what she is going through (again she is very private), and in my opinion most of them are happy to receive help from her but not so good at giving it. It has just meant I am constantly in the firing line, tiptoeing around her in case I say or do something inconsiderate or wrong. It is exhausting but I have always loved her and I think I always will I'm just hoping that her health improves and we can get over this...

[ExpatInItaly]

Out of curiosity, did you find anything noteworthy when you looked in her phone?

 

[manfool]

I did not look in her phone, it was her bedside drawers and I found a small sex toy. She has always had a low libido so I was surprised to see that to be fair. She just clammed up when the find was spoken about. She has said the way I pressed for intimacy while she felt ill disgusted her and now she can't bear the thought of me any where near her. The snooping has not helped. 

Writing this all down is making me realise I think I'm wasting my time here!! I need to start making plans for a future without her in it....

[ExpatInItaly]

12 minutes ago, manfool said:

I did not look in her phone, it was her bedside drawers and I found a small sex toy. She has always had a low libido so I was surprised to see that to be fair. She just clammed up when the find was spoken about. She has said the way I pressed for intimacy while she felt ill disgusted her and now she can't bear the thought of me any where near her. The snooping has not helped. 

Thanks for the clarification. 

Can you elaborate on the bolded? What did she interpret as being pressed for intimacy?

[manfool]

I tried talking about my needs and desires in the relationship! I felt pushed out and tried to talk about my feelings and I have now been informed that is what disgusted her. Apparently she feels like her whole life she has put her needs before anyone else and the one time she needed me I let her down by only thinking about myself and my desires. I get the impression as no-one is about for her at her time of need, I'm taking the full force of her anxiety and I'm happy to do it as long as I can believe I am helping her health and I will get the old gf back. 

[ExpatInItaly]

So at this point, does she want to break up?

[manfool]

Yep. She tells me she can't see herself with me in an intimate way at the present time and I should move on I have tried To tell her I am here for her and that I don't want anyone else, and sometimes I get the impression she doesn't know what she wants and that's why I haven't left yet. I'm clutching at straws here aren't I..

[dangerous]

Sorry to hear you are going through this. A coupe of questions:

What kind if illness is this? Is it something specific that she has had diagnosed and under treatment, or something more vague or generic that she has self diagnosed?

You said she was happy around friends but not with you, even before the snooping. Do you suspect there may be another man she is close to in this group?

[manfool]

she has had gallstones, kidney stones, damage to her womb as a result of the surgery to her kidney stones  (more surgery)and also has been investigated for breast lumps and a lump in her armpit (ongoing). She has had a pain in the neck, lower back and upper arm for close to 18 months now. All in all a pretty tough ride! All of her ailments are being investigated but it just is taking forever. 

On the note of her cheating I honestly don't think she is, the majority of her friends are girlfriend's and the closest male friend is certainly not her type and she and I have known each other a long time. As I said in the original post she really is the most trustworthy person I know. I just let my insecurities and doubts get the better of me and now I'm paying the price

[stillafool]

7 hours ago, manfool said:

Yep. She tells me she can't see herself with me in an intimate way at the present time and I should move on 

If she keeps telling you to move on you should do it.  Really, she will be begging you back in no time and will realize what she had and treat you better.  Try it.

[gamon]

Maybe all those health problems are making her irritable and bitter. Give her time.

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, manfool said:

 

On the note of her cheating I honestly don't think she is, the majority of her friends are girlfriend's and the closest male friend is certainly not her type and she and I have known each other a long time. As I said in the original post she really is the most trustworthy person I know. I just let my insecurities and doubts get the better of me and now I'm paying the price

This is said by so many betrayed spouses. Where several affairs have been with close family friends. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by usa1ah

[manfool]

I can't bring myself to just leave and hope for the best.  I have the kids to think about as well. I am committed to raising my children as a family. I would not be able to live with myself if I did not give this family every chance of surviving. I can't imagine being a part time father, seeing my kids every morning and putting them to bed every night and being a full time presence in their lives is very important to me. It's so awkward, why can't I just tell her I love her, I want to help her get through this and move on.. when did relationships become so hard?

[spiritedaway2003]

2 hours ago, manfool said:

 It's so awkward, why can't I just tell her I love her, I want to help her get through this and move on.. when did relationships become so hard?

Why ...can't you?  If you can't communicate even the basics, how do you expect to save your marriage? 

Edit: I would also say that it takes two for a relationship to work.  If she needs time for her health issues, then give her time if you are willing to.  If she had lost the attraction or intimacy for whatever reason, and you both can't get to the same place, then I think you have your answer.  I think she had actually given your answer, but it's not clear to me if she's pushing you away because of her illnesses or because her feelings had changed. 

Best of luck.

Edited April 15, 2020 by spiritedaway2003

[ExpatInItaly]

11 hours ago, manfool said:

On the note of her cheating I honestly don't think she is, the majority of her friends are girlfriend's and the closest male friend is certainly not her type and she and I have known each other a long time. As I said in the original post she really is the most trustworthy person I know. I just let my insecurities and doubts get the better of me and now I'm paying the price

I don't believe for a moment that this is what it all boils down to. I just think she's choosing this specific incident as a way to blame you and not be forthright about what's led to her decision. 

It sounds to me like it's been a slow detachment process for her, over time. The lack of intimacy may indeed have a physiological component to it, but I'm strongly getting the sense that it's much more than that. She sounds resentful towards you, for whatever reason.  Perhaps her feelings have just changed to the point of no return or maybe there had been other issues bothering her that she didn't clearly articulate. These could be legitmate complaints or they might be smaller things compounded by the stress of her health problems. 

The unfortunate truth is that you can't make her want to stay together if she genuinely doesn't want to. Even if you feel she's being irrational or unfair, she does have the right to walk away, so to speak. And if she's totally unwilling to work on it, you might not have much choice but to let her go. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[assertives]

14 hours ago, manfool said:

she has had gallstones, kidney stones, damage to her womb as a result of the surgery to her kidney stones  (more surgery)and also has been investigated for breast lumps and a lump in her armpit (ongoing). She has had a pain in the neck, lower back and upper arm for close to 18 months now. All in all a pretty tough ride! All of her ailments are being investigated but it just is taking forever. 

Not gonna lie, if I had these many health issues, and being in chronic pain, the last thing on my mind would be sex or intimacy. I frankly doubt I would even have the emotional bandwidth of keeping up with being pestered for sex/intimacy/what-about-my-needs. It would make me resentful and feel like he doesn't give a damn about my health and cares only as much as long as his needs for sex/intimacy that he deems rightfully due to him is not being disrupted. But that's just me.

Having chronic health issues does takes a toll on one's mental health too. It's hard enough dealing with them even without external stresses, it's harder when your partner presses you with what about me/my needs. You said she seems to enjoy hanging out with her friends, but those kind of relationships requires alot lesser emotional labour than one between spouses.

Anyways, there really isn't much you can do if she chooses not to stay together. You cannot will, beg, guilt-trip, manipulate or even love-bomb someone back into a relationship or marriage. I would say give her the space and respect her wishes.

[basil67]

13 hours ago, usa1ah said:

This is said by so many betrayed spouses. Where several affairs have been with close family friends. 

Have any of those affairs involved someone who was chronically ill?

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, assertives said:

Not gonna lie, if I had these many health issues, and being in chronic pain, the last thing on my mind would be sex or intimacy. I frankly doubt I would even have the emotional bandwidth of keeping up with being pestered for sex/intimacy/what-about-my-needs. It would make me resentful and feel like he doesn't give a damn about my health and cares only as much as long as his needs for sex/intimacy that he deems rightfully due to him is not being disrupted. But that's just me.

^^^ this.

23 hours ago, manfool said:

Apparently she feels like her whole life she has put her needs before anyone else and the one time she needed me I let her down by only thinking about myself and my desires.

and this^^^

Whilst she was suffering from ill health, with gall and kidney stones (both are agony) and no doubt worried sick about chronic pain  and cancer, you were looking for sex...
Not only that you went snooping which proved  to her that you didn't believe her when she said she was ill, you thought she was having a affair.
You, you and more you.
It is the reason many older women want divorces, they feel they have spent their whole life thinking of others and when they need real help they are sorely disappointed in the men they have spent their lives pandering to.

[manfool]

I know my actions have let her down in an immeasurable way. And I cannot agree more in what you say. I’m ashamed of myself and the fact that I wasn’t there for her the way she needed and the consequences of that is something I will have to live with. But I need to explain my pestering actions. When she dropped the no more intimacy bomb she literally just stopped all signs of affection. No cuddling, no kissing, no affection at all! I just did not understand what was wrong with her. I did not try to force anything on her all I did was try to put across my feelings and talk to her (in hindsight to much) As I said before she is an extremely independent woman and she is also cursed with an extremely high pain threshold. She completely shut herself from me and just got on with it. I missed how miserable she was in herself, but if you can’t communicate your ailments and feelings how can I as a partner help. I was on a lose lose! I fully respect her decision on the sex but am I not as a partner in a relationship of over two decades allowed to talk about my need to feel loved. I did think a lot about me, but I did also try to help her. I got her massage treatment, I bought her feel good gifts, flowers once a week, and pestered doctors on a weekly basis and also payed for private medical cover. I did what I did because I love her, I was not solely thinking about sex. I was trying to keep our partnership together. Cocked that up hey. 

[Blind-Sided]

18 hours ago, manfool said:

1) I can't bring myself to just leave and hope for the best.  I have the kids to think about as well.

2) I am committed to raising my children as a family.

3) I would not be able to live with myself if I did not give this family every chance of surviving.

4) I can't imagine being a part time father, seeing my kids every morning and putting them to bed every night and being a full time presence in their lives is very important to me. ......

about a year and a half ago... I was in the same spot. (under different reasons)  I vowed to my now exW that I would love her forever, and through the good and the bad.  She came out, and "Blind-Sided" me with some ugly allegations, and I truly tried to figure out what was wrong. But it was irrelevant. She went psycho, and wanted a new life, and there was no stopping her.  You will find happiness after you 2 are apart.

1) I may have missed something... but why leave?  I'm not sure where you live, but after 20 years, there has to be some "Common Law" requirements.  Is it her house with a prenup?  If she has the problem, ask her to leave.  And since she has health issues... it may be bet for her to move in with a family member.

2) Yep... I feel you on that.  But it's worse to try to raise kids in a house where there is constant fighting and tension.  The kids are smart, and they will see it.

3) I understand, but right now... it's 100% in your FG's hands.

4) It's better to be a great part time dad than a s***y full time dad. (not that you are bad) But if the stress, and anger are leaking out... and it will because you will not be happy... then you will disrupt the kid's well being.  Just remember... she will become a part time mom also.

I know it's not easy, but you should just start planning on the future, and figuring out how to be the best dad you can be for the sake of your kids.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[Yosemite]

On 4/15/2020 at 11:54 AM, manfool said:

she has had gallstones, kidney stones, damage to her womb as a result of the surgery to her kidney stones  (more surgery)and also has been investigated for breast lumps and a lump in her armpit (ongoing). She has had a pain in the neck, lower back and upper arm for close to 18 months now.

She was going through all of that and your response was give me sex, what about sex, I need sex, you must be cheating because you won't give me sex. She feels betrayed and hurt. Your response made her feel like all she is to you is a receptacle for your penis.

She also feels let down, like she can't rely on you, like when life gets rough you won't have her back. She can be going through surgery after surgery and not only will you not support her and only care about when she'll have sex with you, but you'll be thinking the absolute worst of her (cheating) and doubting if her health problems are real.

If you want to repair your relationship, you have to prove that you value her presence in your life for reasons other than sex. You need to find a way to be her rock and someone she can count on when she's going through her toughest times. Doing the dishes and putting the kids to bed isn't going to cut it. You've majorly let her down and it's going to take a lot of work to repair things...there's a possibility that it may never go back to how it was before. Serious health problems end a lot of long term relationships.

I would stop with the love notes because they probably sound like empty words and hollow promises after the way that you've behaved. If you're writing something like, "I love you forever and will always be there for you," she's automatically going to think, "yeah, except if I'm in pain and have medical problems and can't have sex with you." You need to show by your actions that you're there for her even when times are tough.

6 hours ago, manfool said:

pestered doctors on a weekly basis and also payed for private medical cover.

Continue doing things like this and look for other ways to help her and promote her health. Cleaning the house and taking care of the kids are things that 1) you should've been doing anyway (especially since she's been sick for the past 2 years) and 2) benefit the household. You need to do things that specifically benefit her and her health.

If the lump in her armpit does turn out to be cancer, your kids will never forgive you if you leave their mom now.

Why did you reveal that you went through her things because you thought that she was cheating? That should've been a secret you take to the grave. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Yosemite

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

If she has the problem, ask her to leave.  And since she has health issues... it may be bet for her to move in with a family member.

oh dear...