Follow-up to "Losing my marbles.." thread

[mrB2006]

Thank your Aimee for your kind works..

I will try to work on my self-esteem...I think that is the key.

 

Thanks

mrB

[noclobber]

u r surely going to lose ur marbles again!

 

good luck dude...

 

Aimee i really don't understand why u keep giving this guy false hopes... whatever

[Sevenmack]

I don't understand why either. He seems to have ruined if from day one.

 

1) You need to set the tone if you're interested in someone: That means flirting with the girl in order to let her know that you're not interested in mere friendship. It means going out on dates with her at night instead of simply hanging out with her as if you're one of her girlfriends. Act like a girlfriend with balls and she'll put you in the friend zone right away. On the other hand, if you're flirting with her and the like, she gets the picture; she can decide whether you're a potential lover or just another dude she'd never touch with her fat friend's p---y.

 

2) Look at the actions, not just words: There are a lot of women who may not be into a guy, but won't come out and say it, either because they don't want to hurt his feelings or because she likes the ego gratification she gets from having him around. So you got to look at the actions. If she doesn't kiss you by the third date, then it's going nowhere. Actually, if she doesn't kiss you on the first date, you're going nowhere.

 

And don't give me this nonsense about 'well, I'm not the type who kisses on the first date.' If a woman is into you, she will kiss you on the first date. Period. She wants to have you around and she knows the easiest way to get a man to stay around is to kiss him.

 

This isn't to say words mean nothing. If she says 'I'm not looking to date right now,' she usually means she's not looking to date anyone like you. If she says 'I'm just interested in meeting people right now,' she means she finds you boring, unattractive and thus, not a potential lover in any lifetime.

 

3) No more of this letter stuff: If you can't say it to her face, then you don't deserve a shot at her heart. Writing letters demanding anything is merely wimping out. And if you're into her, you should be brave enough to make that clear. It should have been a face-to-face discussion.

[Aimée]

Noclobber and Sevenmack, I think you guys have a too limited view on women. And Noclobber, I remember you posting here a while ago about this female friends of yours. If you didn't understand then what was going on, then I doubt you really can give other guys advice on their female friends.

 

If she doesn't kiss you by the third date, then it's going nowhere. Actually, if she doesn't kiss you on the first date, you're going nowhere.

 

And don't give me this nonsense about 'well, I'm not the type who kisses on the first date.' If a woman is into you, she will kiss you on the first date. Period. She wants to have you around and she knows the easiest way to get a man to stay around is to kiss him.

There's a freaking good reason why I don't like going out on dates...

 

3) No more of this letter stuff:

That I can agree with.

[mrB2006]

I agree the letter was a bad idea. But I felt relieved in writing it. I know that my chances are slim with her....But I felt (at the time) that it was the only move left for me.

 

Maybe I am wrong here, but I wanted to know her first...and that took time. I agree that I took WAY too long...but I was falling for her as a person. To be honest, having sex with her never crossed my mind. Hell, I didn't even kiss her (which did cross my mind and I had numerous chances).

 

But that is water under the bridge....I anticipate having a friendly conversation with her. I will just play it by ear. I am going to remain positive and upbeat, but I am not going to raise my expectations.

[Sevenmack]

"Noclobber and Sevenmack, I think you guys have a too limited view on women."

 

Can't speak for Noclobber, but I don't think my view on women is 'too limited as you say. I just take the view that I'm not going to fly coach class on love airlines; female friendships, as they go, just take away too much of my time when it should be focused on finding a woman with whom I can grow and enjoy the wonders that is life. This doesn't mean I'm against female friendships; some of my closest friends are women in their late 40s. But when it comes to women within my age range (25 to 45), I'm not exactly interested in putzing around with the friendship thing, especially when if it's a woman with whom I get along spectacularly.

 

There's a freaking good reason why I don't like going out on dates...

 

Note that I said "if she doesn't kiss you by the third date," although I do think what happens on the first date indicates where things are going. For me, I expect a kiss (and I'm not talking about getting it on or anything) by the second date; I usually won't try for a kiss on the first because I believe in holding back a bit. But if she wants to kiss me on the first date, that's pretty cool as well.

 

This may not be comforting to you, but the reality is that for most of us, a kiss is an indicator of someone's interest in starting or continuing a relationship. Why would you date someone who hasn't kissed you by the third date? And if you're not sure about how you feel about someone on the first, the lack of a kiss can either be a sign that you're being wishy-washy -- meaning you're not as interested in that person as you first thought -- or you're "just not that into him or her" as the phrase goes.

 

I know that if I'm really into a woman, I want to kiss her. And from the number of first-date kisses I have gotten from women with whom I ended up dating for a long time, it works the same way for many, if not all, women too.

[mrB2006]

I would also like to add the following:

I realize that I am coming off as a naive guy. And I would agree with you on that. However, things have changed in my life over the last nine months. I have actually started to come out of my shell....the bottom line: I am a late bloomer.

 

Relationships for me will be a learning experience.

 

Noclobber: thank you for your input. I feel though that you are a little bit negative on your views towards women. I don't know your situation. But how could you view women as nothing more than meat at a market....Someone must have hurt you bad...Hopefully things will get better for you

 

Also, I wanted to add to my reply a few moments ago....The act of sex itself never crossed my mind. Although I was attracted somewhat to her physically.

 

And yes, sevenmack, I know I goofed up big time...the letter, although not necessary, was somewhat of a catharsis for me....

[mrB2006]

And about kissing her,

 

gawd I wanted to do it so bad, but I was a chickens**t. I had many chances and I didn't follow through with my feelings. And that is why I feel so damn bad, because I should have done it.

[noclobber]

And Noclobber, I remember you posting here a while ago about this female friends of yours. If you didn't understand then what was going on, then I doubt you really can give other guys advice on their female friends.

 

Alrite Aimee i agree that i am not an expert about relationships... but when i see another guy in pretty much the same situation as me, does it not give me the right to provide advice?

 

regardless of what happened in my case don't u agree with the fact that women generally do not date their guy friends? i seriously don't understand the logic behind it but is it not true? don't u tell "oh i only like u as a friend", "u r like my big brother"... and of course i am not saying that it can never happen... there r exceptions to everything... but we r not interested in exeptions especially when giving advice to somebody... u got to go with the more practical stuff...

 

mrB2006, yes i am wrong in comparing women with just a piece of meat... i wrote it because i was extremely angry about what was happening with u.. it just brought back my own horrible memories and i just didn't want to see another guy getting burnt like me... the reason why i made such a harsh comment is b'cos of this. assume u r friends with a woman.. as a friend, u wud like her, see her as a complete person, appreciate her skills and talents, her interests in life, etc etc... in short u like her for the person she is. now if u begin to develop feelings for her and ask her out when she becomes single guess what she will say "oh i only appreciate you as a friend" or some other crap like that... now assume that the same woman is approached by a stranger... he finds her attractive... and attractive here clearly means he likes her body and wants to have sex with her... he doesn't know anything about who she is as a person... her skills, talents, abilities, interests etc... he just sees her, falls for her body, approaches her and asks her out... guess what she will do now.. she will be flattered and wud go out with him on a date... and most likely from the third or fourth date she will start banging him in all the possible positions... what can u conclude from this? if u appreciate them as people u r likely to be pushed into the friendzone from which u will never recover... but if u just admire their bodies they will date you... that's why i had written those sentences..

 

still i may have been extremely harsh... but i just find this whole thing very flaky and had to vent out... sorry guys... my apologies..

 

mrB2006 do what ur heart tells you to do man... if u wanna ask her out again please go ahead... if things work out for you then i am happy otherwise don't worry there is always next time and there is plenty of fish in the sea

 

sorry if i offended u Aimee

 

cheers

[noclobber]

Maybe I am wrong here, but I wanted to know her first...and that took time. I agree that I took WAY too long...but I was falling for her as a person. To be honest, having sex with her never crossed my mind.

 

This is exactly what i am talking about!!!!

 

if u fall for a woman for the person she is, its gonna take atleast some time and by then she wud have pushed u into the friendzone... that's why u just got to see the body and go for it... now, i may sound extremely crude but that's how dating is, is it not? if women didn't have this warped logic of "oh i won't date you because u r my friend" then we don't have to get frustrated like this...

[mrB2006]

noclobber: Thanks letting me know why mentioned the whole 'women as meat' thing. You know, I did think about the whole possibiltiy of 'someone' else coming along. But, if that happens it happens. I would still respect her.

 

I am naive in saying this but here goes....My belief is that I would like to really know somebody before I make an important decision like having sex.

 

I will be overseas (asia) for two years. I am sure I will meet other women. And my friend may be in the area where I will be at (for graduate study).

 

I had lost all hope, but when I found at that i may be a short plane ride away from her, my heart jumped....Could I have a second chance? Well, I don't know as of yet....

 

And I'll stop with the sappy sh*t, but I honestly feel that she could have been the 'one'--i know some people may be rolling their eyes at this point...

 

But I will move on with my life. and if I am supposed to be with her, then god (or whoever controls the universe) will put us together. if not then I still respect her as a person and as a friend.

[noclobber]

noclobber: Thanks letting me know why mentioned the whole 'women as meat' thing. You know, I did think about the whole possibiltiy of 'someone' else coming along. But, if that happens it happens. I would still respect her.

 

I am naive in saying this but here goes....My belief is that I would like to really know somebody before I make an important decision like having sex.

 

I will be overseas (asia) for two years. I am sure I will meet other women. And my friend may be in the area where I will be at (for graduate study).

 

I had lost all hope, but when I found at that i may be a short plane ride away from her, my heart jumped....Could I have a second chance? Well, I don't know as of yet....

 

And I'll stop with the sappy sh*t, but I honestly feel that she could have been the 'one'--i know some people may be rolling their eyes at this point...

 

But I will move on with my life. and if I am supposed to be with her, then god (or whoever controls the universe) will put us together. if not then I still respect her as a person and as a friend.

 

i can perfectly understand u dude... in fact i adore how much u like this woman...

 

My belief is that I would like to really know somebody before I make an important decision like having sex.

 

i used to do the exact same mistake... its not like i am going out on shopping and i got to like something immediately in order to decide to buy it... we r talking about human beings here and some people like us have a tendency to grow on other people.. i am not shopping for a mate.. i am the kind of person that takes some time for my feelings to grow... i got to see something beyond just the physical aspect in order for me to get that spark...

 

but after some bitter experiences i have learnt that that's not the way things are... if u like a woman, even very very slightly, even just the physical appearence then go for it... immediately... talk to her and in less than a week or two ask her out... if u delay any further then she will move u into the friendzone...

 

anyway dude... all the best to u... i only hope things work out for u!

[blue16]

you need to start going after other girls, mrB. You're way too caught up with this one.

 

Literally, you're making post after post about how you regret not making a move, wish you have a second chance, want to be in a relationship with her...etc etc. She is not the end all be all to existence. There are TONS of girls out there who are more attractive, have better personalities, and will also have interest in you.

 

I had a similar situation a while ago. I spent so long being infatuated with ONE girl, who although had feelings for me in the past, had clearly moved on and I was still hung up on her. It was a waste of 4-5 months. Granted, your situation is not identical to mine, but there are a lot of similarities.

 

Girls aren't attracted to guys who are sitting around pining for them. How do you think she would feel if she read these two threads you made, for example? She would probably freak out, wondering why you are obsessing over her so much. I guarantee that if you start seeing other girls, your value in her eyes will skyrocket. Maybe when she realizes what it's like when you're with someone else, she might come around. That's the only way to get out of this friend zone you're in. Continuing to be her 'friend' while you want more isn't going to go anywhere.

[mrB2006]

blue16: Yes, I agree I need to move on..And I plan to do that. Like I said earlier in this thread, this get-together will be all. I probably won't see her for years (although she could visit me overseas). I am trying to be realistic. It will be hard to put this part of my life behind me. At least now I know that I should take the iniative in a relationship....there are other women out there, and hopefully I'll find one....

 

thanks for your input

[noclobber]

blue16: Yes, I agree I need to move on..And I plan to do that. Like I said earlier in this thread, this get-together will be all. I probably won't see her for years (although she could visit me overseas). I am trying to be realistic. It will be hard to put this part of my life behind me. At least now I know that I should take the iniative in a relationship....there are other women out there, and hopefully I'll find one....

 

thanks for your input

 

as u say it will be very very painful when u realise that u cannot see her for the next couple of years. but please remember that u did make the effort about conveying ur feelings to her. it was late and the way u did was not quite right but nevertheless u did! give urself a pat on ur shoulders 'cos u made the attempt. we learn from our mistakes and next time u know exactly what to do. use this experience as a stepping stone and move on!

 

next time if u see a woman that u r attracted to, start a conversation and in a week or two ask her out. u can get to know her via dating her. don't take the friends route.

 

all the best for you man! u will do well!

[mrB2006]

noclobber: thanks

[Aimée]

For mrB2006 it would be a good idea to concentrate on other things, so he would worry less about this girl, but I definitely don't agree with everybody who says he had been in the friends zone from the beginning. She did send him signals and he just didn't get them. I don't know either if it's too late or not, but if she has felt a great compatibility and if he manages to pull himself together they maybe would get a chance.

 

For the guys who don't understand it how it works with girls and their friendships with guys: some guys are put in the friends zone right from the beginning due to lack of physical or intellectual attraction, others are friends with potential for more. After a while they might get put in the friends zone, too, but it depends. I did have friends in whom I had been initially interested, but after a while I realized I wasn't interested in them at all and I just turned them into purely platonic friends.

 

I think it was a mistake to be interested in this girl and wait for such a long time. She wanted someone who was more bold and by waiting and suppressing his feelings for her, he confirmed her opinion of him: he just didn't cut it.

 

mrB2006, I would stop clinging to the past and wondering what you could have done better, because that's also a characteristic of a weak person. If you were a strong person, you would look at your mistake, accept it and look forward to new opportunities. If you cling to the past you will miss out the new opportunities that open up to you in the future. There is no use about beating oneself up about past mistakes. Look forward and try to seize your new chances.

[noclobber]

For mrB2006 it would be a good idea to concentrate on other things, so he would worry less about this girl, but I definitely don't agree with everybody who says he had been in the friends zone from the beginning. She did send him signals and he just didn't get them. I don't know either if it's too late or not, but if she has felt a great compatibility and if he manages to pull himself together they maybe would get a chance.

 

For the guys who don't understand it how it works with girls and their friendships with guys: some guys are put in the friends zone right from the beginning due to lack of physical or intellectual attraction, others are friends with potential for more. After a while they might get put in the friends zone, too, but it depends. I did have friends in whom I had been initially interested, but after a while I realized I wasn't interested in them at all and I just turned them into purely platonic friends.

 

I think it was a mistake to be interested in this girl and wait for such a long time. She wanted someone who was more bold and by waiting and suppressing his feelings for her, he confirmed her opinion of him: he just didn't cut it.

 

mrB2006, I would stop clinging to the past and wondering what you could have done better, because that's also a characteristic of a weak person. If you were a strong person, you would look at your mistake, accept it and look forward to new opportunities. If you cling to the past you will miss out the new opportunities that open up to you in the future. There is no use about beating oneself up about past mistakes. Look forward and try to seize your new chances.

 

well said Aimee!

 

i think in the end it all boils down to whether the girl likes u or not to start with.

 

Aimee u r right in saying that if the woman is attracted physically then there is a good chance for the friendship to grow into more... but u have also mentioned that she may also be attracted intellectually... for this to happen she has to know the guy for a while... and there is a risk of him slipping into the friendzone during that time period. correct me if i am wrong. so i think physical attraction is the most important factor!!

 

also i believe that the guy wud look more attractive to a woman if he asked her out within a short time... because if he did he wud look more confident to the woman and confidence is an attractive quality..

[mrB2006]

Aimee and Noclobber: Thanks for the input..I am moving on....I trying my best to 'get her out of my mind'. I am studying up for my upcoming move overseas. I am also focusing more on work and family...Plus, I have a 'blind date' this coming weekend (mom's friends setting me up with a girl about my age)...so I am trying to deal with this in a mature fashion.

 

I will stop dwelling on what could have been and worry about the future....

 

Life goes on....whether I like it or not...

 

Thanks

MrB

[mrB2006]

Aimee: I agree with you that I should move on...However, I don't necesarily think that a person is weak if he tries to figure out what mistakes he made. Believe me, I have learned so much by posting to LS that I wish I had found this site sooner....I just want to have 'all the information' needed for the future...I don't ever want to be in this predicament again as long as I live...It was complete torture.

 

Thanks

 

just my 2 cents....

 

mrB

[noclobber]

However, I don't necesarily think that a person is weak if he tries to figure out what mistakes he made.

 

that's right... but what Aimee was telling u was to look at the mistakes, learn from them, and move on! only to be stuck in the past and keep regretting wud make a person weak...

 

even i wish i knew a lot of things before i made the move on my girl mrb but u never know until u try. by the end of the day we all do the things that we want to do and not the things that we need to do or should do. we just got to be careful the next time..

 

good luck!

[mrB2006]

Aimee: This is the only question I have. I will stop posting....gotta move on.

But about her interest in me...

 

I asked her point blank if we would be a good couple (I had waited WAY too long). She gave me 'it's too late, we are moving in different directions in life' speech....

 

About three weeks after me asking about a future, we went on our trip...

 

She knew my feelings, yet she kept asking me really strange questions about marriage, children, and sex....What was her deal then?

 

I kind of felt like I was being led on by her....

 

Just wanting a woman's perspective.

[noclobber]

Aimee: This is the only question I have. I will stop posting....gotta move on.

But about her interest in me...

 

I asked her point blank if we would be a good couple (I had waited WAY too long). She gave me 'it's too late, we are moving in different directions in life' speech....

 

About three weeks after me asking about a future, we went on our trip...

 

She knew my feelings, yet she kept asking me really strange questions about marriage, children, and sex....What was her deal then?

 

I kind of felt like I was being led on by her....

 

Just wanting a woman's perspective.

 

That's a good question. Let's see what Aimee has to say..

 

as a side note i wanted to add that my girl did the same thing. before i asked her out she said -> "i know u r dreaming about my cats". she has 2 cats but why wud i dream about them? she was essentially telling that i was dreaming about her... this is just one of the hints that i thought she was giving me...

 

i asked her out and she refused.

 

now again she keeps telling things like this.. yesterday she said "i dreamt of being chased by a man".

 

dunno dude... its very difficult to understand a woman... this leading on thing when u r not interested is really the frustrating part. well whatever lets wait for Aimee..

[Aimée]

I am studying up for my upcoming move overseas. I am also focusing more on work and family...Plus, I have a 'blind date' this coming weekend (mom's friends setting me up with a girl about my age)...so I am trying to deal with this in a mature fashion.

That sounds all very good.

 

However, I don't necesarily think that a person is weak if he tries to figure out what mistakes he made.

It just seems that you're beating yourself up about this, so much regret and so many feelings of guilt. Everybody makes mistakes and really, the best thing you can do is to improve and promise yourself to do better next time. Accept that you have maybe not made the best move, but that was still the old you at that time. You didn't know that LS had existed, you didn't know whom to ask for better advice and you just did what the person you were then with the knowledge you had thought was the best.

 

Aimee: This is the only question I have. I will stop posting....gotta move on.

But about her interest in me...

 

I asked her point blank if we would be a good couple (I had waited WAY too long). She gave me 'it's too late, we are moving in different directions in life' speech....

 

About three weeks after me asking about a future, we went on our trip...

 

She knew my feelings, yet she kept asking me really strange questions about marriage, children, and sex....What was her deal then?

 

I kind of felt like I was being led on by her....

 

Just wanting a woman's perspective.

It's kind of flattering that you guys rely so much on my opinion, but I wish there was some other woman here who would give her two cents...

 

Anyway, one possible explanation could be that she's still testing you. She's building up obstacles on purpose that you're supposed to overcome. You asked her and put the ball in her court, but that's not what she wanted. She didn't want to take a decision consciously, she wants you to convince her and her emotions. So, she's throwing the ball back to you by not giving you an explicit 'no' as an answer. She has avoided the topic. That's why I would guess, you still would have a chance if you did the right thing, meaning: sweep her off her feet, show her you're a man, etc. Overcome the nervousness when you talk with her, forget that you're a man and that she's a woman, your fixation that she's a woman makes you nervous and she therefore knows that she still has power over you.

 

And by the way, I told you before, she seems to be very high maintenance and if she thinks that guys understand hints and then make the necessary changes then she's quite naive. I have not once met a guy who understood hints and would make the necessary improvements.

[mrB2006]

Merry Christmas to all!

 

Well,

I saw my friend again. I saw her on Friday. It was kind of an awkward meeting. Our conversations revolved around our careers and politics. My letters never made it into the conversations.

Since I am a methodist and she is a catholic, I asked her about her religion a couple of weeks back. The country I will be heading to is primarily catholic. (I have been to a few masses before since my grandmother is catholic). My friend therefore invited me to a christmas midnight mass. It was a very rewarding experience. (I had gone to my mother's methodist service a few hours before).

 

She picked me up and I gave her her present in the church parking lot. She said she would open it after the service.

On our way into the church, we hugged each other. She thanked me for coming since her family didn't come.

While we were sitting in the pews, I noticed we were sitting fairly close to each other. I tried to go for her hand, but she refused it. That was o.k..

 

All during the mass, she would whisper in my ear what was going on and give me a cute smile. (I was pleased she was letting me in on what was happening.)

 

After the service, we walked to her car. She apologized for not buying me anything. I reassured her that that was alright. She opened the box and started to cry a little. She said she was very touched by what I had gotten her. I said that it was the least I could do. We sat in the car for about two minutes. She kept saying how touched and surprised she was at my gift.

(I got her a cd, journal, and fountain pen-I also tucked in my overseas address for her).

 

She told me that she would definately write me.

 

In my driveway, she looked at me with a smile on her face. She held my hand and thanked me. It looked like she was about ready to cry again. Then she said Merry Christmas. I said Merry Christmas to her. I then told her to have a safe trip home. That was it.

 

I felt really well after last night. I think I did leave an impression on her. And although I still care for her, I realize that life goes on.

 

After going to the several church services, I feel renewed. It is rather amazing if you think about it. And I am really appreciative to my friend for letting me come with her.

 

Hope everyone is having a fantastic Christmas (and Hannukah).

 

 

MrB