Follow-up to "Losing my marbles.." thread

October 8, 2005

This post is a continuation of the thread started on Sept. 7.

Update: I was very conflicted with the mixed signals given to me. Therefore, I sent an honest letter to my friend. I asked her point blank if we could move to the next level. I also downplayed it, emphasizing that we are moving in seperate directions.

I sent the letter almost two weeks ago. I haven't received anything back, yet. I don't intend on hearing back from her.

I guess I took the high-road in this situation. I also feel that I am more mature than she is. Honesty is the best policy in any relationship, platonic or romantic. But if she isn't going to be honest with me, then a relationship would have never work out between us. She made the moves, and I responded. She can't handle it, so she cuts and runs.

I agree that I am kind of a nebbish, a naive guy. But I really did think a lot of her. (At least I used to).

What I have learned from this experience:

1) Many women are not serious when they talk about "true love" and things of that nature.

2) Some women are emotionally manipulative towards guys. (I made it very clear to hear my feelings, however she continually led me on-It's her loss).

3) I will never again let a women walk all over me.

4) I will never be the guy to offer his shoulder for her to cry on.

5) Don't touch me "in that way" if you have no intention to continue the relationship--"Don't touch the goods unless you intend to buy"

6)I will never open up my heart too much. Once that happens, it gives her an opportunity to crush it.

7)I always thought that I was indecisive about things. Some women will continually be neurotic. -- "Paging Dr. Freud"

8)NO more friendzone crap. Being trapped in that situation delights the female. You can be used to fulfill her emotional needs. Who cares if you have a heart? It is complete torture. I refuse to be placed in that position EVER again.

Am I bitter? Not at all. I realize that I will someday meet the right gal for me.

But no more "Mr. Nice Guy". It's time for me to grow a pair.

Thanks for reading this rant.

MrB2006

October 8, 2005

Sorry things did not go your way.

I did read through your thread quickly.

IMO it sounded like a friendship ,nobody came out and expressed romantic/dating type feeling for each other unless i missed it?

I don't think she sent mixed signals she treated you as a friend.

Your letter maybe she didn't respond because you made her feel awkward or she's busy ,hasn't had time to read it and so one .

I have felt that way when a guy friend expresses romantic interest,i sometimes want to avoid talking about it because im thinking where did this come from?

i talk about day to day things,work ,school ,dating,exes,to me its out of the blue and its hard to hurt my friends feelings and say i like you as a friend,no more ,no less.

The reason guys are so great as friends because you can get input ON OTHER GUYS.

""I said "Well, do you think we would be a great couple?". It threw her off. She hesitated. I was thinking to myself that I must have goofed it up. But at that moment I realized that it is purely platonic. And that is ok. Life goes on.

She said that she was 'high maintenance". I laughed. Then right away she commented on the high gas prices.""

she was not into you so ,made a comment about herself negative to say no not me,then changed subject.SHE WAS CLEAR AS SHE FELT COMFORTABLE BEING.

""What I have learned from this experience:"

All that you wrote is because you are angry from your post you never came out and said"im interested"so if she wasn't and she thought you weren't how was she to know you were developing these feelings?

I don't think she walked on you, was manipulative and all that you listed .

You did that to yourself ,you kept hoping and looking into everything as something it wasn't.

you shouldn't walk around taking this out on other women .

This post should be for women "why women shouldn't have friendships with men because some men cant handle friendship with opposite sex and end up losing there marbles".

You just need to learn to know the difference between romantic interest and friendship.

You are responsible for your feelings,nobody else ,YOU developed feelings not her fault.

And you referer to "friendzone"you were just that -friends .

Friends talk,share feelings,call each when they need each other ,hang out ,give hugs and affection.

October 8, 2005

I don't think she sent mixed signals she treated you as a friend.
Your letter maybe she didn't respond because you made her feel awkward or she's busy ,hasn't had time to read it and so one .

He sent her the letter two weeks ago,no-one could be that busy..unless he wrote her a 50 page essay.If she feels akward thats a good excuse not to say anything about it for two weeks? Sure,she's a great "friend".

I have felt that way when a guy friend expresses romantic interest,i sometimes want to avoid talking about it because im thinking where did this come from?

I don't understand this or buy it for that matter. Why would "where it came from" concern you? The fact is he said he was interested in her and she brushed him off,I doubt she's wondering how,where or why he developed feelings for her

i talk about day to day things,work ,school ,dating,exes,to me its out of the blue and its hard to hurt my friends feelings and say i like you as a friend,no more ,no less.

In other words; Pretend it never happened. Yeah, ok but the guy still doesnt know what you think of him "Does she like me or not",By not telling him straight, your filling him with false hope (this isnt true for everyone).

The reason guys are so great as friends because you can get input ON OTHER GUYS.

Yeah thats all well and good,except his feeling dont really matter. Sounds like a perfect friendship to you?

she was not into you so ,made a comment about herself negative to say no not me,then changed subject.SHE WAS CLEAR AS SHE FELT COMFORTABLE BEING.

Friends? as I said,his feelings are non exsistant.

All that you wrote is because you are angry from your post you never came out and said"im interested"so if she wasn't and she thought you weren't how was she to know you were developing these feelings?

You sure? It sounds to me as though he grew up alittle and learned the bad side of women.If he was angry he would probebly say things like "I hate women" or "I'll never date women again".

I don't think she walked on you, was manipulative and all that you listed .

Clearly he let his feelings out,but they were disregarded<Maybe she wasnt manipulative but she did walk over him.

You did that to yourself ,you kept hoping and looking into everything as something it wasn't.
you shouldn't walk around taking this out on other women .

How on earth did he take this out on women?

1) Many women are not serious when they talk about "true love" and things of that nature.
2) Some women are emotionally manipulative towards guys. (I made it very clear to hear my feelings, however she continually led me on-It's her loss).
7)I always thought that I was indecisive about things. Some women will continually be neurotic. -- "Paging Dr. Freud"

Am I bitter? Not at all. I realize that I will someday meet the right gal for me

Truth is SOME or MANY women are like this. Dont get me wrong SOME men are just as bad. But this isnt a woman bashing post

This post should be for women "why women shouldn't have friendships with men because some men cant handle friendship with opposite sex and end up losing there marbles".

Hey feel free to post a new topic,I'll be glad too offer my opinions on it.

You just need to learn to know the difference between romantic interest and friendship.

I may actually post a new thread to discuss why he doesnt.

You are responsible for your feelings,nobody else ,YOU developed feelings not her fault.

Very true but he did take responabilty,Re-read his post and you'll see.

And you referer to "friendzone"you were just that -friends .
Friends talk,share feelings,call each when they need each other ,hang out ,give hugs and affection.

And ignore you when you develop further feelings for said "friend".

mrB2006 it's nice to hear that you realize there is a special someone out there for you,keep up the fight for us.

October 8, 2005

Therefore, I sent an honest letter to my friend.

I think I had explained what she had expected from you. Writing a letter was not my recommendation, what she had wanted was to see some action that would convince her that you were really the right one.

In this case, I would say, it was your fault for messing things up, you did have a chance, because she did tell you indirectly what she wanted and if you wanted more signals, you can wait till hell freezes. You either understand the signals or you don't understand them, but she won't go further and serve herself on a tablet for you. Unless she's head over heels for you (which she obviously is not), it's probably a turn-off for her having to teach a guy how to be a guy.

I asked her point blank if we could move to the next level.

Great move... You haven't proven yourself worthy at all, but she's supposed to take you. She seems to be a desirable woman = plenty of choices, do you think she's going for someone she's not perfectly happy with?

I also downplayed it, emphasizing that we are moving in seperate directions.

Again a very bad move. You either stand up for your feelings or you shut up, downplaying the situation only makes you look indecisive and weak. I've seen it and it didn't convince me at all.

I sent the letter almost two weeks ago. I haven't received anything back, yet. I don't intend on hearing back from her.

She's feeling uncomfortable and doesn't know what to answer, because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings (also, I may assume you sounded a bit desperate and that makes it even more difficult for her) but it's likely that it's a no.

I also feel that I am more mature than she is.

I wouldn't bet on this, otherwise you wouldn't be so angry about it now, instead you would understand why she's acting like this.

I agree that I am kind of a nebbish, a naive guy. But I really did think a lot of her. (At least I used to).

Naivety is often the excuse of people who are reluctant to learn and understand other people. She's a woman and her situation is different to yours. I'd say, women probably for biological reasons are more selective than men as they will be the one who are stuck with a baby when the guy turns out to be a jerk or a lousy provider in other ways.

1) Many women are not serious when they talk about "true love" and things of that nature.

Who are you to decide that you're her "true love"? If you were, you would have fulfilled all her criteria and she would be head over heels for you, but as she isn't, it's likely that you're not her "true love". So, how do you justify your critics on her beliefs?

2) Some women are emotionally manipulative towards guys. (I made it very clear to hear my feelings, however she continually led me on-It's her loss).

The delay in answering your letter doesn't come from wanting to lead you on, but from her fear to hurt your feelings.

3) I will never again let a women walk all over me.

How did she walk all over you?

4) I will never be the guy to offer his shoulder for her to cry on.

It's sad if this is the conclusion that you're drawing from your experience with her.

5) Don't touch me "in that way" if you have no intention to continue the relationship--"Don't touch the goods unless you intend to buy"

Well, I'm not a friend of touching either, but I also can't remember what you had written before about the touchings. It very likely was an invitation to go further though, to show her that you were a man. If I recall it right, you did have the opportunity to kiss her, but you never did and that left her wondering if you knew what wanted and if you were the kind of guy who would go for something that he likes or if he was too skittish to take it.

6)I will never open up my heart too much. Once that happens, it gives her an opportunity to crush it.

Wrong conclusion.

7)I always thought that I was indecisive about things. Some women will continually be neurotic. -- "Paging Dr. Freud"

It's not that women are indecisive, if they see something that they want really bad, they will go for it. If they something that they like but are not sure yet, they will drop hints, that's it. Your case has nothing to do with indecision.

8)NO more friendzone crap. Being trapped in that situation delights the female. You can be used to fulfill her emotional needs.

I repeat, you were not completely in the friendzone.

But no more "Mr. Nice Guy". It's time for me to grow a pair.

See, and that's probably the main reason why she didn't want to date you. You're drawing the wrong conclusion. You're bitter and blaming things on her that means, you didn't understand her, you're also proving to her that you're too weak to handle a defeat like a man.

October 8, 2005

He sent her the letter two weeks ago,no-one could be that busy..unless he wrote her a 50 page essay.If she feels akward thats a good excuse not to say anything about it for two weeks? Sure,she's a great "friend".

I don't understand this or buy it for that matter. Why would "where it came from" concern you? The fact is he said he was interested in her and she brushed him off,I doubt she's wondering how,where or why he developed feelings for her

-----When i say her "where it came from "I am reffering to she has only shown friendship,where did he get that impression i was interested ,types of thoughts as i have had the same thoughts .

In other words; Pretend it never happened. Yeah, ok but the guy still doesnt know what you think of him "Does she like me or not",By not telling him straight, your filling him with false hope (this isnt true for everyone).

-----He never asked her staight out,by HIM not asking her straight out instead of tiptoeing around his feelings,if she had no feeling and thought they were just friends,why would she out of nowhere say im not interested you in as dateable or boyfriend material?

Yeah thats all well and good,except his feeling dont really matter. Sounds like a perfect friendship to you?

-----His feelings didnt matter to HIM,because he held them inside he was not true to himself.

Friends? as I said,his feelings are non exsistant.

-----There are many differnt types of friendships he never (until the letter)outright expressed his feelings,how was she to know?

You sure? It sounds to me as though he grew up alittle and learned the bad side of women.If he was angry he would probebly say things like "I hate women" or "I'll never date women again".

---He sounds immature ,he learned nothing of the sort,maybe he will learn next time open your mouth.

Clearly he let his feelings out,but they were disregarded<Maybe she wasnt manipulative but she did walk over him.

----He didnt let them out!!that was the whole problem!!

How on earth did he take this out on women?

----He sounds bitter ,blaming her,as if they had something other then friendship,he feels as if she hurt him he hurt HIMSELF.

T

ruth is SOME or MANY women are like this. Dont get me wrong SOME men are just as bad. But this isnt a woman bashing post

-----Are you sure?,seems like it.

Hey feel free to post a new topic,I'll be glad too offer my opinions on it.

-----Its your right if I post a topic to post ,i can understand other points of view,i do have the right to disagree.

I may actually post a new thread to discuss why he doesnt.

-----Why he doesnt what??

Very true but he did take responabilty,Re-read his post and you'll see.

-----I disagree he did not take responsibility.

And ignore you when you develop further feelings for said "friend".

-----He does not know why she didnt answer most likely like i said ,its coming out of nowhere she doesnt want to hurt him,maybe shes busy at school,maybe like me she doesnt open her mail all the time and so on.

mrB2006 it's nice to hear that you realize there is a special someone out there for you,keep up the fight for us

-----Please the fight?

Grow some and express your feelings and if a female is talking about another male or treating you like a friend ,you are just that a friend not her fault in your head something else is totally going on.

October 8, 2005

Aimee,

I agree with some of what you had said. However, I am pretty much a clear cut guy. Tell me your damn feelings. Don't let me go on thinking "Does she" or "Doesnt she". I am not attacking her. She has every right to think that I am desperate. But don't lead me on. Pawing me and talking about sex is not the way to handle someone in that position.

My coworkers knew I looked down last month. I went ahead and told them my predicament All of them told me she was leading me on and had no intentions of developing a relationship with me. They also agreed that she is one confused gal (all the mixed signals). That's fine. That is why I sent the letter, for some closure. I believe I am being realistic about things.

I don't intend for her to "serve herself" to me. "Just tell me what you want."

Also, she didn't have to teach me anything about being a guy. I Take that back, I did learn that a few women say that they want an honest guy, but in reality they just can't handle it. They act like confused "little girls".

And no I wasn't desperate. And I don't care if she hurts my feelings. I can take it. I have been rejected before. I just want an honest answer. And for taking action: How was I to take action when I am two-thousand miles from her. A letter was the only rational thing I could come up with at that time.

--Aimee, to answer your response about the touching. I felt really uncomfortable because one minute I was "just a friend" the other she was pawing me. I had known her for around nine years. I just didn't feel that I should go further (at that time). Were we just friends?

I am not bitter and I am not angry. Such is life. You win some, you lose some. And I will certainly get back out there. I am sure someone I will find someone.

Thanks Marv for standing up for me. I tire of all this crap about how a guy is suppose to suppress his emotions. (And that talk is coming from the women)

To just close: Yes, it may have been a "mistake" to send the letter. However, for any relationship to develop, there must be trust and honesty. I thought that I was doing the right thing by being honest in my emotions. It didn't seem right to keep it bottled up. Also, What if she met another guy at school? What if they got married. Then what would I do--"I wish I had asked her sooner?".

Oh, well, I learned my lesson.

mrB2006

October 8, 2005

Gevoraksix,

I made my feelings well known when I asked "Do you think we would make a great couple?" I even told her about the qualities in her that I found attractive. I also gave her non-verbal cues such as eye-contact and smiling at her, things like that.

Also if I am just a friend, why try to start up discussions about sex and what I look for in woman. In one "date" she asked me what I thought about oral. Do "friends" talk that frank about sexual topics? You also forget that she was pawing me. That's a damn good indication that she is interested in someone.

Women know that they can control men with their sexual prowess. But in her case it got out of control. If she had no intention to be with me, then why lead me on? I just want an honest answer from her.

October 8, 2005

"Iam not attacking her. She has every right to think that I am desperate. But don't lead me on. Pawing me and talking about sex is not the way to handle someone in that position. "

You should have told her you didnt feel it was "appropriate touching".

Most adults talk about sex,again if it made you uncomfortable,you should have said something.

Then if it kept on you could have ended the friendship.

""Also if I am just a friend, why try to start up discussions about sex and what I look for in woman. In one "date" she asked me what I thought about oral. Do "friends" talk that frank about sexual topics? You also forget that she was pawing me. That's a damn good indication that she is interested in someone. "

Friends of the oppisite sex are the best friends for learning about the oppisite sex!

Yes friends talk that frank!

And if pawing was more then hugging ,and playfulness OK thats wrong ,but does not mean she was interested.

Actions do speak louder then words, but sorry i think her actions said "were friends "

And i feel you deserve a answer ,but to what ?

Why shes not into you?

Im sorry ,i dont feel you were lead on,just my opinion,just be more careful and speak up!

October 8, 2005

"To just close: Yes, it may have been a "mistake" to send the letter. However, for any relationship to develop, there must be trust and honesty. I thought that I was doing the right thing by being honest in my emotions. It didn't seem right to keep it bottled up. Also, What if she met another guy at school? What if they got married. Then what would I do--"I wish I had asked her sooner?".'

So are you now trying to develop something with her?

I thought the letter was

"I asked her point blank if we could move to the next level. I also downplayed it, emphasizing that we are moving in seperate directions. "

Then the way youve spoken you sound as if you want nothing to do with her.

That she lead you on and ETC.

Im confused:(

October 8, 2005

gevoraksix,

I am sorry for the confusion. Ok. i should have said something better than "downplayed". In the letter I asked the question if we could move to the next level. Then I said that I was being realistic because of the distance between us. I also mentioned that we were going our seperate ways in life (in terms of school and career). At that point I also mentioned that I asked her this before, but that I didn't pursue it for fear of damaging our friendship.

I went on and told her that the letter she was about to read wasnt going to contain anything about undying love. I told her that that would make her uncomfortable (as well as myself). I told her about some specific moments we had had. I mentioned how much those moments meant to me and changed me.

in closing I told her that I realized that the letter may damage our friendship. I also told her that I would understand if she felt otherwise about me.

It did not contain anything outrageous.

mbrB2006

October 8, 2005

Also gevoraksix

You are right. If I felt uncomfortable about the touching, I should have told her. However, to be honest with you, I enjoyed it. But I was so damn confused about the whole thing. And I am confortable about my own sexuality. I don't have a problem talking about it. But I believe really frank stuff between a man and a woman should be talked about when you are

exclusive. call me old fashioned...

But I do thank you for your advice

MrB2006

October 8, 2005

gevoraksix,

I thought the world of her. I learned so much about her and her life. I also learned a lot about myself. We had many moments like that. I became attracted to her because of her caring and loving attitude and her intelligence. I was also intrigued by her spirituality. It does sound corny, but she did make me want to be a better man. And with all of the touching, I got confused. to be honest with you, I never met a woman like her before.

And yes I wanted it to be more because i felt that we connected on many levels.

Who knows?

mrB2006

October 9, 2005

gevoraksix,
I am sorry for the confusion. Ok. i should have said something better than "downplayed". In the letter I asked the question if we could move to the next level. Then I said that I was being realistic because of the distance between us. I also mentioned that we were going our seperate ways in life (in terms of school and career). At that point I also mentioned that I asked her this before, but that I didn't pursue it for fear of damaging our friendship.

I went on and told her that the letter she was about to read wasnt going to contain anything about undying love. I told her that that would make her uncomfortable (as well as myself). I told her about some specific moments we had had. I mentioned how much those moments meant to me and changed me.

in closing I told her that I realized that the letter may damage our friendship. I also told her that I would understand if she felt otherwise about me.

It did not contain anything outrageous.

mbrB2006

maybe there is hope then ?maybe she is thinking things through?

October 9, 2005

gevoraksix,
I thought the world of her. I learned so much about her and her life. I also learned a lot about myself. We had many moments like that. I became attracted to her because of her caring and loving attitude and her intelligence. I was also intrigued by her spirituality. It does sound corny, but she did make me want to be a better man. And with all of the touching, I got confused. to be honest with you, I never met a woman like her before.

And yes I wanted it to be more because i felt that we connected on many levels.

Who knows?

mrB2006

Well sorry that does make things more clearer!

The reason i said as far as touching ,I have male friends and may touch a shoulder or rub a back(through clothing)for comfort or if someone had a tough workout:D

But its not sexual stuff i open a talkative,playful,woman ,i do inquire and love to have male female discussions with my guy friends .

At the same time i am sometimes shy when i am interested so if a man acts as if hes not, sometimes i may keep it friends ,instead of ruining a friendship.

So dont take everything i say or anyone else as the truth to your situation.

You did great by opening up in the letter.

I was bothered by the fact you seemed to blame her ,but the way you explained above helped me better:D

I do wish you luck !

i would do the only thing you can as far as her -wait.

October 9, 2005

thank you gevoraksix for your thoughts. It is much appreciated. (I was a little ticked when I first posted yesterday-But cooler heads have since prevailed.)

I will wait. She will be in town in December for Christmas break, so I MAY have a chance to see her and explain myself. (God, I hope so.)

mrB2006

October 9, 2005

thank you gevoraksix for your thoughts. It is much appreciated. (I was a little ticked when I first posted yesterday-But cooler heads have since prevailed.)

I will wait. She will be in town in December for Christmas break, so I MAY have a chance to see her and explain myself. (God, I hope so.)

mrB2006

And during this time ,i hope you focus on yourself.

Not waiting for her still living life,yet open to whatever it may bring friendship or romance i do sincerly hope it works out!

I didnt mean to seem so firm:) but your feeling are so important ,dont let them get hurt intenially or unintenially by anyone yourself included.

Or change your outlook on relationships.

And you do seem alot more of a level headed person tgen when you first posted:love:

October 9, 2005

Aimee,
Also, she didn't have to teach me anything about being a guy. I Take that back, I did learn that a few women say that they want an honest guy, but in reality they just can't handle it. They act like confused "little girls".

I saw slubberdegullion post this on a thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t72276/ yesterday:

Shut up and listen. She'll give you lots of verbal cues as to how to proceed. Generally, women tend to talk more than men, simply because their brains are more verbally "wired." (http://www.psychologyhelp.com/gend134.htm) Now, she'll undoubtedly say the same thing over and over and over again, just in different ways. But turn off the standard tune-out mechanism for a moment and listen to the words and the tone. They'll give you a big clue as to her expectations;

Redefine the relationship. This is where men often screw up. Because our brains are wired differently than women's brains, when men speak we're more likely to be direct and to the point. Women, however, have a tendency to read meanings into things even if they were completely unintended. Instead of getting stuck inside that game, however, the best option is to be as clear and unequivocal as possible. "Eve," Adam says, "we've known each other for a long time. I'd like to develop this friendly relationship into an intimate one." A clear, simple statement. Now, of course, you run the risk of losing her entirely. If that's the case, then so be it. If it's a choice between being stuck in the friend zone and forever frustrated, or walking out entirely, show me the door;

These were excellent pieces of advice. It's simply part of the weeding process not to tell you everything. (And dang if I don't know a guy who is doing the same and you can bet, I really suck at understanding him, too. )

And no I wasn't desperate. And I don't care if she hurts my feelings. I can take it. I have been rejected before. I just want an honest answer. And for taking action: How was I to take action when I am two-thousand miles from her. A letter was the only rational thing I could come up with at that time.

Then you should have visited her.

--Aimee, to answer your response about the touching. I felt really uncomfortable because one minute I was "just a friend" the other she was pawing me. I had known her for around nine years. I just didn't feel that I should go further (at that time). Were we just friends?

Touching is something that I don't do and I have no clue if it's supposed to be a sign of friendship or something more.

However, for any relationship to develop, there must be trust and honesty. I thought that I was doing the right thing by being honest in my emotions.

She knew already how you felt and there was no need to write this letter. She knew it and that's why she was dropping hints. You should have redefined the relationship as was suggested before.

I think you still might try this move, the problem is though, even if she really is interested in you there is still the problem with the distance. I kind of doubt that she will want to start a relationship from the distance. That's actually another reason why your letter was a bad idea, trying to ignite a spark from the distance is really really difficult. You should have visited her and talked about your relationhip face-to-face.

October 9, 2005

Aimee,

I certainly understand your viewpoint. My heart got in the way of my mind. I wasn't lucid enough. At this point the die has been cast. And I will have to wait it out. Question: Is there anyway to redefine the relationship now? I guess I royally screwed up.

I really felt like I should have written that letter. Like I mentioned in an earlier post: "What if she meets someone else at school?". I don't want to be forty years old, and say "It could have been me by her side".

Any way, if I don't hear back from her by next Friday, I know how she really feels. Life goes on, so to speak.

(I have never been a person to speak my heart out face to face. I ususally communicate best in the written form).

mrB2006

October 9, 2005

Aimee,

About redefining the relationship.

I think I did that when I wrote the letter. I asked her a simple question: Can we move to the next level? I haven't heard back from her. So, I guess that is my cue to move on.

mbrB2006

October 9, 2005

However, before I give up completely, is there anything else I could possibly do?

Mrb2006

October 9, 2005

I just realized I said contradicting things. On the one hand I agree with slubberdegullion that asking someone point blank about the relationship is a good move, because it shows guts and determination, on the other hand I found your move somehow bad. I mean, asking her directly should have showed her that you have guts, but writing it lessened the impact. Also asking her when she is gone already and, hm, finding new friends and experiencing a different life is also not really good moment. Downplaying your feelings because you're heading in two different directions and don't know if it will work out will also make her unsure if she should risk it. See, it makes you look insecure about yourself and what you want.

Honestly, I don't think I have any good idea how you can solve the situation. If she doesn't answer you though, you shouldn't waste too much time on her, she would have proven herself to be a real coward and not worth it to be your girlfriend. I haven't written that many letter of rejections, but I think the longest time it took me was a week and the guy said he thought I wasnt going to reply anymore.

I suggest that you wait till Friday and when she hasn't replied yet, you sent her another letter:

Hey hon,

it took me some time to figure out what I wanted from you, so I would understand it if you're also hesitating for the same reason. If there are things that you would like to discuss with me then give me a call and we can talk about them. If you prefer that we stay friends as before, then it would be nice if you could drop me a line.

XXX

At least you would get a clear answer, she might be hesitating because she's not sure, the distance *is* a problem or she's hesitating because she doesn't know how to turn you down. I'd really keep the message short and friendly, be cool, no whining or any kind of passive-aggressive pushing for an answer. If she says no, continue being friendly and don't give in to passive-aggressive behavior, because it's a turn off if a guy can't take a defeat. He gets angry = he's a loser, and she will thank herself for her smart decision. If she was a bit unsure about you and therefore decided to stay on the safe side (well, she knows you're interested in her and she will continue to believe that you would still be available for a "yes" later should she change her mind), then make her doubt her decision by taking it like a man. I can assure you, you get tested ALL THE TIME. Don't believe that when you get a rejection you can let go and call her names, that's a bad move. And think it like this, if she doesn't want you now, maybe she has a good reason why not. Maybe she knows she can push you around, because your self-esteem is so low. Maybe you're too clingy. Whatever it is, try to be objective. If you continue to work on your issues you will eventually find what you want. By giving in to your anger and placing the blame on her you are only denying your self-responsibility.

October 9, 2005

thank aimee,

I will wait till friday. I am starting another letter today. (I plan to go over several times to make sure that it is worthwhile to read).

I am sorry I gave the impression earlier that I was angry with her. I am sure that I gave off mixed signals as well. She still means a lot to me. I wouldn't be that shallow to call her names.

And yes I do have some baggage to work out. And I am sure I will mature as time goes on.

All I really want is a clear answer. I would like to have a little bit of closure.

(I did think that maybe in the future we could get together. (after her grad school and my career change). We wil see.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

[in retrosepct, a letter wasn't the greatest idea. I remember on our trip that she had mentioned a guy she had gone out with. He said he was nice, but didn't have any backbone. She cut off their relationship. She didn't even give him a reason. No communication at all. I thought that since we got to know each really well, that I wouldn't fall into that category. Now, I just feel that I should at least get an acknowledgement from her. Heck, if she detests me fine, just tell me that. I can handle rejection. But I can't handle this kind of rejection. Once you get to know somebody really well...You get to know the true person.]

October 10, 2005

I have felt that way when a guy friend expresses romantic interest,i sometimes want to avoid talking about it because im thinking where did this come from?

-----When i say her "where it came from "I am reffering to she has only shown friendship,where did he get that impression i was interested ,types of thoughts as i have had the same thoughts .

I understood what you meant.My reply was basically "I dont buy this.I doubt she's thinking about how,where or why he developed feelings for her".

Now she may feel akward,who doesn't when a friend your not interested in comes on to you.But it still doesnt excuse 2 weeks and not hearing anything about it.But thats just my opinion on it,I could be wrong...In that case,I better ask out complete strangers.

-----He never asked her staight out,by HIM not asking her straight out instead of tiptoeing around his feelings,if she had no feeling and thought they were just friends,why would she out of nowhere say im not interested you in as dateable or boyfriend material?

He did thorugh the Letter (Even though it was LONG overdue).

-----His feelings didnt matter to HIM,because he held them inside he was not true to himself.

He eventually let them out,no ties,no BS.As I said long overdue which is likely where the problems started.

-----There are many differnt types of friendships he never (until the letter)outright expressed his feelings,how was she to know?

Very true.

---He sounds immature ,he learned nothing of the sort,maybe he will learn next time open your mouth.

Maybe he didnt learn,I said "he sounds like he grew up alittle and learned the bad side of women." I didnt assume he did that was just my opinion..one that I still hold too.

Any woman who wants to ignore a friend,to me sounds like a woman I wouldnt want as a friend.(This is what I meant when I said "bad side of women" Bad choice of words now that I think about it,sorry if anyone got the wrong idea)

----He didnt let them out!!that was the whole problem!!

He did in the letter.But yes as I said Long overdue which was more likely the problem...however just because it was overdue doesnt mean that would change anything if he let his feelings out sooner.

----He sounds bitter ,blaming her,as if they had something other then friendship,he feels as if she hurt him he hurt HIMSELF.

As I said if he was bitter he'd more likely be screaming out "WHY ARE WOMEN SO GODDAMNED BLAH BLAH <insert rant>?!" rather than saying things like "Am I bitter? Not at all. I realize that I will someday meet the right gal for me."

-----Are you sure?,seems like it.

I am very sure.But now that you've said that it "seems like it" I would like to see proof of this.

-----Its your right if I post a topic to post ,i can understand other points of view,i do have the right to disagree.

This post should be for women "why women shouldn't have friendships with men because some men cant handle friendship with opposite sex and end up losing there marbles".

I said feel free to do so,It YOUR right if you wanna post a new topic but dont go hijacking someone elses

-----Why he doesnt what??

I misunderstood this bit,sorry.

-----I disagree he did not take responsibility.

He let his feelings known,he got burned,he might've lost a good friend.He accepts that.He's willing to move on.But then I might be wrong again.It's only from what I've seen on his post.

-----He does not know why she didnt answer most likely like i said ,its coming out of nowhere she doesnt want to hurt him,maybe shes busy at school,maybe like me she doesnt open her mail all the time and so on.

Must point this out "maybe he will learn next time open your mouth" Now this as I said (not in so many words) I agree with.I beleive everyone should be aloud to speak and should do just that.

Theres really no excuse as to way nothing has been mentioned of the letter.Remeber 2 weeks have gone by,that's a long time not to read something.

-----Please the fight?

Meant nothing by that,I view life that way.

Grow some and express your feelings and if a female is talking about another male or treating you like a friend ,you are just that a friend not her fault in your head something else is totally going on.

This to me sounds VERY harsh.Its nobody's "fault",feelings are illogical you cant help who you like,so dont bother fooling yourself.As for this comment

"and if a female is talking about another male or treating you like a friend ,you are just that a friend"

I was hoping you could comment further on this?

October 12, 2005

Marv,

I read your reply to geovraksix. Interesting. However, I need to tell you that I let my feelings known several times long before I knew she was leaving for school. Now, I admit that I didn't come out and say "I Like you" but pretty damn close. For example, I remember when were at a play (the play where she gave me a neckrub), I told her how much I had enjoyed her company. I told her how much I admired her devotion to her spiritual pursuits. She told me one afternoon that she was waiting to have sex until she finds the right person. I told her that I admired her for that. (I know some people will laugh at that one-to me it is a sign of respect for her). I often told her how "great" a person she was. Even the non-verbal cues: steady eye contact, touching her, etc.

Well, if I don't hear anything back from her by Friday, I will follow Aimee's advice and send one more letter. That's it. Goodnight, Irene. I'm done with

her....for the time being.

I hate to think that she would just drop a "friend" like that.

mrb2006

October 12, 2005

thank aimee,
I will wait till friday. I am starting another letter today. (I plan to go over several times to make sure that it is worthwhile to read).

Don't elaborate long answers, that's an absolute no-no. Don't start spilling your feelings out for her, I assure you, she knows them. Keep it short or copy my letter. Be cool and casual, don't let her know that she means the world to you. She will not want to read all this, whether she's interested in you or not. You can talk about your feelings when you're in a relationship with her, but not now, it sounds so desperate. If she had liked you the way you like her, she would have done something to get closer to you. She didn't, she's just hinting, so I'd conclude, she's not having the same feelings for you as you for her.

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