Not good but still wants him!

[LB2016]

So, my cousin (who is 31) has been casually dating a guy for a few months and is really into him. They aren’t exclusive but she really wants to be with him and would love nothing more than to have that with him. 
 

From the beginning though, he’s been stringing her along and hasn’t been very transparent with her. There’s been many times that she feels he’s been dishonest with her and as she puts it, things just feel “off” and often don’t add up. His actions are quite inconsistent too.

Knowing this, and even feeling deep down that she can never trust him 100%, there’s a big part of her that still wants to be with him! I try to convince her otherwise and she agrees with me but still has the desire. 

I wanted to pick everyone’s brain on here and see WHY you think she would still want to pursue and want a relationship with a man she ultimately can’t trust. I think it’s a deep insecurity of some sort. I can’t figure it out and would love to help her from making a big mistake or even just continuing to waste time on a relationship that isn’t good for her. 
 

What are your thoughts? Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice would be appreciated!

[FMW]

Who knows why she's overlooking all the red flags, unfortunately it happens all the time.  

Sometimes we just have to learn the hard way. You can give her your opinion and thoughts about the situation, but ultimately she's going to do what she's going to do.  

 

[rjc149]

I’m going to catch flak from the regulars here on LS, but here it is: it is supported with scientific and statistical evidence that women are more sexually attracted to men whose feelings for them are unclear. Think of the old cliche of a girl picking petals off a flower “he loves me he loves me not.”
 

This is why women chase players, this is why PUAs teach hot/cold tactics to attract women, this is why there are untold thousands of posts from young women on here that sum up as “is he interested in me?” And no, not all of them suffer from chronically low self esteem. This is how female sexual attraction works.

Also at 31, her clock is ticking and her sex drive may be causing her to overlook the red flags that would make him a poor long-term nesting proposition.

[stillafool]

I find this to be true with both sexes.  Men like women who are hard to get and keeps him guessing.  I think we all like things that don't come too easy.  It isn't just women.

[Interstellar]

Because he’s a challenge. Women like that. They’re really nothing like men.  They don’t want the guy who’s too available, too eager to please, compliments her constantly, booooring...it’s not exciting to them.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Interstellar

[rjc149]

24 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I find this to be true with both sexes.  Men like women who are hard to get and keeps him guessing.  I think we all like things that don't come too easy.  It isn't just women.

Yes it is. And in most cases, it's true up until a certain point. People do tire of chasing, and ongoing uncertainty is eventually a turn-off. Once in a relationship, a woman does need to feel like she's appreciated and cared about, or she will lose emotional attraction, which is the bond that keeps partners connected after the "limerence" honeymoon phase of the relationship wears off. 

OP: At this uncertain "where do we stand" phase of the courtship, this guy is maintaining your cousin's sexual attraction by being mysterious, non-compliant and hard-to-pin. My guess, is that she'll lose interest in this constant chase once a more nurturing man begins validating her emotionally. The more nurturing man also tends to be needy, approval-seeking, too available, and less masculine, which she also eventually loses interest in when a more masculine "alpha" man comes along. Hence the back-and-forth many women engage in to satisfy the duality of their reproductive preferences. Hence why so many women settle down with beta males while still holding a candle for the alpha male ex boyfriends. 

[poppyfields]

4 hours ago, LB2016 said:

Knowing this, and even feeling deep down that she can never trust him 100%, there’s a big part of her that still wants to be with him! 

I wanted to pick everyone’s brain on here and see WHY you think she would still want to pursue and want a relationship with a man she ultimately can’t trust. 

Question for rjc149, I understand and agree (to a point) about women being attracted to a bit of mystery, and a man whose feelings are unclear.  In those precarious early stages anyway.

And I've always thought a bit of push/pull can be fun and intriguing.

BUT how does what's posted above factor in?

She claims the guy's been dishonest and she doesn't trust him.

I can't speak for other women, but no amount of mystery or intrigue can make up for a man being dishonest and whom I can't trust.

That's a whole different thing imo.

Edited April 13, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

I deal with this allllllllll the time with my friends. Unfortunately there’s nothing you can do but grab some popcorn and brace for the impending train wreck. 

[rjc149]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

Question for rjc149, I understand and agree (to a point) about women being attracted to a bit of mystery, and a man whose feelings are unclear.  In those precarious early stages anyway.

And I've always thought a bit of push/pull can be fun and intriguing.

BUT how does what's posted above factor in?

She claims the guy's been dishonest and she doesn't trust him.

I can't speak for other women, but no amount of mystery or intrigue can make up for a man being dishonest and whom I can't trust.

That's a whole different thing imo.

It depends on why she can't feel like she can trust him. She seems to phrase the source of her distrust as a lack of transparency, not outright lying. I'm guessing, and I could be wrong, that the lack of transparency regards other women in the background. The fact that he seems content playing the field and reluctant to commit indicates this. 

Once in a committed relationship, dishonesty and untrustworthiness become more of a deal-breaker when they erode the bond and connection -- especially when it pertains to finances, drug use, criminal history, or simply not keeping promises and following through with stated objectives etc. Few things turn women off more than a guy who talks a big game but never lives up.

But at this phase of the relationship, they are still courting and dating, and the shade on what's really going on in the background of his life simply adds intrigue and mystery. I have little doubt that should this guy continue to hold her at a distance like this, she will move on. 

[stillafool]

31 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Yes it is. And in most cases, it's true up until a certain point. People do tire of chasing, and ongoing uncertainty is eventually a turn-off. Once in a relationship, a woman does need to feel like she's appreciated and cared about, or she will lose emotional attraction, which is the bond that keeps partners connected after the "limerence" honeymoon phase of the relationship wears off. 

OP: At this uncertain "where do we stand" phase of the courtship, this guy is maintaining your cousin's sexual attraction by being mysterious, non-compliant and hard-to-pin. My guess, is that she'll lose interest in this constant chase once a more nurturing man begins validating her emotionally. The more nurturing man also tends to be needy, approval-seeking, too available, and less masculine, which she also eventually loses interest in when a more masculine "alpha" man comes along. Hence the back-and-forth many women engage in to satisfy the duality of their reproductive preferences. Hence why so many women settle down with beta males while still holding a candle for the alpha male ex boyfriends. 

Yes but men quickly tire of the needy, clingy gf and soon become more interested in the next chase.

[rjc149]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Yes but men quickly tire of the needy, clingy gf and soon become more interested in the next chase.

Yes but neediness in a woman is less of a turn-off per se than it is in a man. A woman can be sexually attractive while being needy, and men will tolerate her neediness for sex. Women are far less willing to tolerate neediness in a man, even a very good-looking man, since they are more attracted to behavior and status than appearance. 

[stillafool]

11 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Yes but neediness in a woman is less of a turn-off per se than it is in a man. A woman can be sexually attractive while being needy, and men will tolerate her neediness for sex. Women are far less willing to tolerate neediness in a man, even a very good-looking man, since they are more attracted to behavior and status than appearance. 

No, women will tolerate a lot from a hot guy.  That is why you see so many of them clinging to losers.

[poppyfields]

I often think the reason some women are drawn to men like this, of whom many are “commitment phobes” for lack of a better word, is because they (the women) are commitment phobes themselves.

His fears are active (inconsistent behaviour, mysterious, avoidant, non-committal) and hers are passive (chasing men who are unavailable and non-committal).  He's "safe." 

This is often the dynamic in interactions and relationships like this.  Just what I've witnessed from some women friends and reading threads like this.

You won’t hear the women admitting that though, many folks (both men and women) aren’t even aware of their fears, so they continue to play out this dynamic until one or both become emotionally exhausted and leave after which the woman is off searching for her next Mr. Unavailable.

It can become a vicious cycle.

JMO.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by poppyfields

[rjc149]

8 minutes ago, stillafool said:

No, women will tolerate a lot from a hot guy.  That is why you see so many of them clinging to losers.

Good-looking men are not needy, clingy and insecure, because they typically have a lot of options with women. That's why they're desired by women. Neediness and clinginess with women come from lack, not abundance. 

And a lot of the losers these women cling to understand female attraction very well -- know how to talk to a woman, treat a woman, and yes, how to manipulate a woman, to keep them coming back for more. 

You do not see attractive women cling to weak, needy, insecure, clingy, feminine men. Ever. No matter what he looks like. 

[LB2016]

40 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

BUT how does what's posted above factor in?

She claims the guy's been dishonest and she doesn't trust him.

I can't speak for other women, but no amount of mystery or intrigue can make up for a man being dishonest and whom I can't trust.

That's a whole different thing imo.

Agree! This is what concerns me most about the whole thing. From what she’s told me, she has caught him in a few lies here and there...like where he’s been, what he’s doing, etc. But it’s one of those things where it’s not completely 100% black and white though so she can’t “nail” him for it, if that makes sense. I think she always reasons with it too saying they’re not exclusive, so he doesn’t “owe” her explanations. I personally think there’s a another woman still in the picture and he’s definitely playing the field. Bottom line: she feels he’s shady and things don’t add up. 
 

I get the whole concept of the “chase” and wanting what you can’t have. We’re all guilty of that- men and women. But as Poppy said, wouldn’t this case be different because she already knows she could never trust the guy? I always say to her that if she’s already feeling this way- why would she want to pursue ANYTHING with him or even think about it? It’s baffling. 

[rjc149]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

I often think the reason some women are drawn to men like this, of whom many are “commitment phobes” for lack of a better word, is because they (the women) are commitment phobes themselves.

His fears are active (inconsistent behaviour, mysterious, avoidant, non-committal) and hers are passive (chasing men who are unavailable and non-committal).

This is often the dynamic in interactions and relationships like this.  Just what I've witnessed from some women friends and reading threads like this.

You won’t hear the women admitting that though, many folks (both men and women) aren’t even aware of their fears, so they continue to play out this dynamic until one or both become emotionally exhausted and leave after which the woman is off searching for her next Mr. Unavailable.

It can become a vicious cycle.

JMO.

 

Yes, the anxious/avoidant trap. However, in my experience, after coming to emotional exhaustion from chasing the avoidant for too little return, the anxious women then pairs up with a fellow anxious man, to satiate her hunger for validation and affection.  

I also believe that "commitment-phobe" men are usually the men with abudnant options with women. This is also what makes them attractive. 

[Miss Spider]

4 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Good-looking men are not needy, clingy and insecure

Hahaha you should meet most of my exes 

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, rjc149 said:

Good-looking men are not needy, clingy and insecure, because they typically have a lot of options with women. That's why they're desired by women. Neediness and clinginess with women come from lack, not abundance. 

Of course they are.  Just like good looking women can be the most insecure.  The way you talk it's as if good looking people don't have emotions.  They fall in love and get hurt just like everyone else.  My husband is drop dead gorgeous and he's needy and clingy to me.  He had lots of options but fell in love with me.  I'm very independent and that turned him on.

[rjc149]

4 minutes ago, LB2016 said:

I get the whole concept of the “chase” and wanting what you can’t have. We’re all guilty of that- men and women. But as Poppy said, wouldn’t this case be different because she already knows she could never trust the guy? I always say to her that if she’s already feeling this way- why would she want to pursue ANYTHING with him or even think about it? It’s baffling. 

At the end of the day, she's really sexually attracted to him. That's going to forgive a lot of personality flaws.

[rjc149]

1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said:

Hahaha you should meet most of my exes 

Hence why they're exes.

[stillafool]

6 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

And a lot of the losers these women cling to understand female attraction very well -- know how to talk to a woman, treat a woman, and yes, how to manipulate a woman, to keep them coming back for more. 

It's more than likely their looks and great sex that keeps these women hooked.  Not much different than men.

[rjc149]

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Of course they are.  Just like good looking women can be the most insecure.  The way you talk it's as if good looking people don't have emotions.  They fall in love and get hurt just like everyone else.  My husband is drop dead gorgeous and he's needy and clingy to me.  He had lots of options but fell in love with me.  I'm very independent and that turned him on.

I suppose everyone's mileage varies. In my life, classically handsome, chisel-jawed alpha men have been able to quickly and easily replace the women in their lives. They never got too attached and clingy to any one woman. 

Good-looking women are often insecure because their worth in society and sex appeal is determined largely, if not solely, by their beauty. Beauty is ultimately subjective and temporary. It's different for good-looking men, unless he's banking his self-worth entirely on his looks. Which tends to be unattractive to women. 

[simpycurious]

18 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Of course they are.  Just like good looking women can be the most insecure.  The way you talk it's as if good looking people don't have emotions.  They fall in love and get hurt just like everyone else.  My husband is drop dead gorgeous and he's needy and clingy to me.  He had lots of options but fell in love with me.  I'm very independent and that turned him on.

ANYBODY can be insecure at times.  The best looking, the smartest, the most gifted athlete ANYBODY.  It just happens in LIFE.  I am not sure what being clingy entails but I would hope that if you were in love with someone YOU WOULD NEED THEM.  Need as in covet their time and attention but not to the point of acting like a baby or pouting or whatever. STILL, he just wants to be near you and with you ....there could be worse things.

[Miss Spider]

Theoretically, yea. But you also have to account for how attractive  people can be crazy too. Attractive people are not immune to illogical thinking like obsessing over  what they can’t have, insecurities, or clinging, controlling behavior 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

34 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Good-looking women are often insecure because their worth in society and sex appeal is determined largely, if not solely, by their beauty. 

I think this^ is quite insightful rjc149, in fact very attractive people can often times be more insecure than average sometimes even doubting their own beauty and attractiveness. 

I used to work in the entertainment industry and found models and actors to be the most insecure of all.

Edited April 13, 2020 by poppyfields