Maybe he's slowly fading?

[Haerts]

10 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

This is the perfect approach IMO. Personally, i think this is the 'key' to all beginning stages of dating.  His own behavior influenced what you think of him.  You aren't still gung-ho for a relationship because of the way he has acted, yet you are not being so obstinate that you only understand your own way, pace ,etc.  And you are actually less interested not playing it just for strategy but because the side he is showing you in days just previous to this is...uninteresting to you. Well played.  

And you are right there are many many reasons why a person acts this way, this is why there is no need to get upset, demand an answer, cut it off, etc as long as you can manage how you feel, honestly can (which is difficult).  Ultimately, you've put yourself in the driver's seat.  Most people in your same situation get upset, cut a person off but it still leaves them feeling as "less than" or rejected, ie not in the drivers seat at all or just cutting the guy off or telling him for for a reaction.  At the stage you are still learning about a person, so you can fade on him at any point yourself when you have all the information you want.  Sounds like you are getting there.  I wouldn't say he is playing games--he may be, he may not be.  He doesn't know what he wants or doubted it a few days ago and now at least understands your value.  There is extreme value in that for you whether or not it works out with this guy (whether or not you want it to etc). Good luck

I don't think he's necessarily playing games, but in the end, it feels like a game. If I go after him, he will just reply or ignore, but if I stop all contact, then he will initiate and act more interested. The first week was way too intense and he had me there all the time, including this time I had sht to do and I gave it all up just to see him (and I told him that, shame on me). I suppose that's why afterwards he was doing whatever he wanted. 

Now what I see is, he's initiating contact (I haven't done that for the past few days) and he wants us to do something together this weekend. I guess he's still interested to some extent - and I'm not saying that he wants a relationship. I do believe he might be on the rebound though, so it was good I backed off as well, I'll just try to enjoy things as/if they happen. And then let's see how it goes.

On a different note, I went on a date last night with somebody else and it was pretty good! Had a great time, but I'm not sure if I want to see him again. Life goes on!

[poppyfields]

Haerts, instead of thinking it as a game, think of it as a dance.

Same thing, but dance sounds nicer, lol :).

Anyway, what you describe sounds quite normal (or typical) to me. It's how all my relationships started out.

Guy comes close, then pulls back.  You pull back, then he comes close again.  Rinse repeat.

It's called push/pull, and a bit of that in the early stages can be fun and challenging, if you understand it.

This dance won't last, it's just what "some" guys need to do while in the process of emotionally connecting with you.

When he pulls back, if you become clingy and start pushing for answers, it thwarts this process.

Try and remain open to all the changing nuances and trust in the connection you've developed.  

Like I said, this all sounds like normal early stage dating stuff to me. xx

Edited April 3, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

Hmm this doesn’t seem ‘normal’ at all to me. It sounds like low interest. If you keep playing the game by sticking around and he doesn’t have anything he seems  better going on will he keep seeing you? quite possibly for awhile. But I wouldn’t want to go on a date with this guy, his interested doesn’t seem that high.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

For me it "was" pretty typical cookies, including the LTR relationship I'm in now. 

Not saying all guys who pull back after initially coming on like gangbusters are processing emotions, but many guys do, in my experience. 

When it happened, I didn't take it personally, and I left him alone.

They always returned, more gung ho than ever, and appreciated my not giving him shyt about it as, sadly, so many women do.

And those women end up losing the guy, unknowingly pushing him out, after which they scream "see, told ya, guy was just using me!" or other such nonsense.

OP, if you play it right, you could have this guy, but yeah you might have to play the game a little.  Up to you.:)

Edited April 3, 2020 by poppyfields

[simpycurious]

38 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

For me it "was" pretty typical cookies, including the LTR relationship I'm in now. 

Not saying all guys who pull back after initially coming on like gangbusters are processing emotions, but many guys do, in my experience. 

When it happened, I didn't take it personally, and I left him alone.

They always returned, more gung ho than ever, and appreciated my not giving him shyt about it as, sadly, so many women do.

And those women end up losing the guy, unknowingly pushing him out, after which they scream "see, told ya, guy was just using me!" or other such nonsense.

OP, if you play it right, you could have this guy, but yeah you might have to play the game a little.  Up to you.:)

I don't think guys "pullback" on someone they are TRULY interested in and they certainly DO NOT lose interest in THE ONE.  Generalizations are just that GENERAL.

Edited April 3, 2020 by simpycurious

[Miss Spider]

I’m not saying that it’s not possible to date lukewarm people, happens all the time. Just don’t see why anyone would want to. I would want someone sure about me, not someone who needed to process or ignored/pulled away after we were intimate... that would  make me lose interest. Also  I think someone like that is more likely to continue taking rship for grantedd or leave for something they deem better.. I’m glad it worked out for you though and hope it works out for Haerts . Perhaps he’ll be proactive  about planning the next date. Judging from many posts I’ve seen of a similar story, you may have to do some poking and prodding. Usually  if you chase a guy hard enough he’ll end up settling or saying yes.  Dont  know why anyone  would want that though... 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

I guess because maybe I needed some space to process too, especially when things start off that fast. 

I actually had to pull back myself with one of my long term ex's, he came on SO strong in the beginning it overwhelmed me.

Had nothing to do with low interest, in fact the opposite .  I felt I might be falling in love with him, and needed to process those emotions, slowly, gradually as to not become too overwhelmed and bail.

He went through periods in those early stages where he pulled back too, like after a long extremely intimate weekend together. 

I hear ya though, not many women would be too keen on their guy doing that, but I understood it.

There's no more of that push/pull today, we're still together and very much in love.

To each his/her own, as they say.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by poppyfields

[Haerts]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:32 AM, poppyfields said:

For me it "was" pretty typical cookies, including the LTR relationship I'm in now. 

Not saying all guys who pull back after initially coming on like gangbusters are processing emotions, but many guys do, in my experience. 

When it happened, I didn't take it personally, and I left him alone.

They always returned, more gung ho than ever, and appreciated my not giving him shyt about it as, sadly, so many women do.

And those women end up losing the guy, unknowingly pushing him out, after which they scream "see, told ya, guy was just using me!" or other such nonsense.

OP, if you play it right, you could have this guy, but yeah you might have to play the game a little.  Up to you.:)

When we are strong women, we will just keep going on with our lives and leave them alone. That's why they come back. 

When I posted this thread here, I was feeling confused and getting a little down because of what was going on, then I decided it was time to back off and now I'm feeling a lot better, my feet are back on the ground. The great thing about this is that at first I started to create expectations regarding this guy, now I don't have any, which puts me back on the driver seat.

I'm still communicating with him, but less than that first week. This last weekend he called me on Saturday morning inviting me to spend the weekend at his place. So he picked me up, we had a great time on Saturday, I slept with him, then the next day we went to do some exercising at a park nearby and had dinner at his place, with that couple again (his friends). And once again, everything was fantastic. We have been texting, but not much, same as last week.

I do, however, have noticed that yes, there is something holding him back.

First, he's still on Tinder - I saw him on it on Friday. We never agreed on exclusivity, so I don't really care - plus, I'm still there too so yeah. Second, he met his ex last week - I know it because his friend talked about it kinda accidently. He and his ex are in this same group of friends, they had this meeting on Friday (the day before we met). Then his friend mentioned it and joked about them getting back or whatever. He said "once it's over for me, it's over", but he was right in front of me so of course he wouldn't have said anything. This means there's an actual chance he and his ex had something and/or still remain in contact with each other.

But anyway, I don't really think he's boyfriend material - not because of the way he treats me (he seems to be a nice guy tbh), but because I can see he's not ready for a relationship (whatever his reasons are). I thought it was lack of interest on me, but we spent the whole weekend together, cuddling, having sex and enjoying each other's company and it was great.

Long story short: I'm not pulling away completely, but I'm also not expecting anything out of it anymore. So far, everytime we get together things are amazing. If we continue seeing each other, I'll just continue enjoying it. But I'm keeping my distance as well. After all, it's not even been a month since I met him.  

Edited April 7, 2020 by Haerts

[Lisa_Lisa]

2 hours ago, Haerts said:

Long story short: I'm not pulling away completely, but I'm also not expecting anything out of it anymore. So far, everytime we get together things are amazing. If we continue seeing each other, I'll just continue enjoying it. But I'm keeping my distance as well. After all, it's not even been a month since I met him.  

Great! This is how you should be. Enjoy the moment, take it for what it is and go on with your life. The more care free you are, the more enticing you become. Good for you, that's how to do it. Proud of ya!

[Haerts]

Sorry guys, this is a bit long, but I would like to hear from you.

Well, so, we ended up talking about this whole situation. I wasn't reaching out at all, but it was annoying me very much how he would video call me out of the blue every 2 days. That was pretty much the only way we were communicating. No meetings planned.

Today he unexpectedly video called me (again) and he was saying how he thinks I should redownload the dating apps, because I'm new in Australia and that I should be out there meeting new people, making the most of it, and that would be the option for now. (I was already doing that)

I thought it was a little strange he'd suggest that, so I said it was all very confusing and that he should make himself more clear. He said he's enjoying to get to know me, that I'm a great person etc, but if someone isn't on his mind 100% of the time, that means to him that's not time to initiate anything more serious. He also said that it takes him a long time to get to that point with someone.

He mentioned how our start was very fast and he said he was feeling it, but later he came to realize that I may not stay in Australia (my visa expires in October, I'll have to try to reapply for it), which made him back off. Apparently that's a big deal to him, because that's why he and his ex broke up - she moved back to her country because she wanted to, it wasn't because she couldn't stay (he had mentioned that before in one of our meetings).

He also mentioned how this is a bad moment for him (because of the pandemic, he had to close his shop and fire all his employees) and how he's been reevaluating things/his life. He said he didn't go out/sleep with anyone else ever since we met. (not sure if I can believe it)

It was a good conversation, we were both very calm, it wasn't awkward and we were talking about some random stuff afterwards. He said a few times before and after that convo that he wants to continue seeing me. It's been a month now since we met, which is still very recent.

As to how I'm feeling, well, it was good to clear everything up, but now I'm unsure whether it would be best to just distance myself for good (and block him if needed) or if I should keep this going. Once again, he seems to be a great guy and honestly, he's done me no wrong, but I have this feeling that I'm just someone to pass time with and eventually I might get ditched for someone else.

What do you guys think about it?

Edited April 14, 2020 by Haerts

[ExpatInItaly]

He's giving you all kinds of reasons why he doesn't want to keep this going. He's telling you to move on, in several different ways. Someone who is interested in keeping the spark alive doesn't say these things. 

I would heed that and cut ties. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[FMW]

It you think you can see him casually while also being open to seeing other guys, and to him seeing other women (that's likely to happen if it hasn't already), then ok, maybe stay in touch and see where it goes. 

But I think if you were able to do that without being frustrated and hurt you wouldn't have started this thread.  Most of us aren't able to do casual without getting at least a little burned.  Be honest with yourself, don't leave yourself open to unnecessary hurt.

[hippychick3]

He is essentially telling you that this isn't going anywhere and you should move on. I'd cut ties and do just that. At this point, any further conversations/video calls is a waste of your energy and time. 

Never settle for anyone who isn't head over heals crazy about you in this stage of a relationship. 

[planb1973]

Haerts,

Have you looked into attachment styles? Ie. Avoidant Attachment Style. 

I just went through a very similar story as yours. Started our great but if I tried to get close she backed off. She did admit she is a bit avoidant and after brushing up on the subject it all became clear. Last we talked she said she is not in a place to date right now but to keep in touch. This whole pandemic has people all over the place. Could simply be bad timing, could be he is not ready for a relationship. Who really knows. Move on but don't delete, things may change down the road. 

[contel3]

If you ask me, the way he went about this was a bit callous…. you can tell someone you don't see them as relationship material in a much kinder way. Unless you want an fwb I would let this one go. If you do decide to go the fwb route, I would suggest you stop acting like you're dating this guy and just try to figure out whats in it for you. I know that sounds cold, but he obviously doesn't care about your feelings so much and unless you do the same you're in for quite a disappointment. 

[stillafool]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:30 AM, Cookiesandough said:

Hmm this doesn’t seem ‘normal’ at all to me. It sounds like low interest. If you keep playing the game by sticking around and he doesn’t have anything he seems  better going on will he keep seeing you? quite possibly for awhile. But I wouldn’t want to go on a date with this guy, his interested doesn’t seem that high.

I agree, plus you have only been seeing him for 3 weeks so I wouldn't put too much mind space into a guy at that point.  His interest seems very low so I would back off and start seeing others.  Is it really that hard to give up on someone you've only known 3 weeks who has low interest?

[Versacehottie]

hmmm I have a different take than most on the most recent info.  I'd say he was testing you.  I mean who reaches out to someone to indicate they should really get themselves out there to date others??  So if it happened like you described: HE reached out to you, HE broached this subject, including turning it to the specifics and suggesting that you date others, I think he's testing you in some way.  Perhaps not even a way he's conscious about.  Lol, it's funny that he's looking out for your "dating wellbeing".  99 times out of 100 if a guy is not interested in dating you, he drops off the face of the earth--well unless you get a hold of him and press him for an answer.  I mean if it doesn't make sense, then that's not really what it's about IMO.  I think he did that, in part, to see if you would fight for him.  Listen the "prescription" is the somewhat the same as the others have suggested who don't think that's what is going on.  He sounds unreliable, unsure and like for sure you'd be playing with fire.  He does NOT sound recovered from his last relationship.  He's wavering.  His actions and words say different things.  So f*ck his words or his "help", do what you want.  

A) you should keep dating and meeting new people, because YOU should not cause he says or due to where you think that relationship might end up.  It will balance things to see what dating is like though the filter of many experiences rather than putting all your effort on one guy.  Also in a new place that's the way to go in general.

B) have a feeling he is unsure partly because he would find himself in a de-facto new relationship.  It's overwhelming and too soon to him.  The spirit of competition often changes things and provides clarity  for both parties.

C) Wavering people is sometimes a temporary situation and sometimes a character trait (fixed), why commit YOURSELF in actuality or spirit to someone that is not sure that they are SURE about you or that he isn't a wishy washy jerk

D) Obviously with him, as long as you can protect your heart and your emotions, you have the flexibility to keep seeing him.  Now, it's very hard to do this but if you take action to REALLY meet new people and live the rest of your life, I don't see why you can't still let him pop up here and there until it no longer serves you or shifts.  You just have to make 100% sure you are in the driver's seat.

I would say your next move as it relates to him is to do nothing. Let him contact you; let him make the next move "forward" with you.  I think if you do that; you will hear from him.  He is unfinished.  You just don't want to invest in this guy since he is not giving you anything AT THE MOMENT to invest in.  He's entertainment at this point. If he steps it up, then you'll see. Good luck

Edited April 14, 2020 by Versacehottie

[ExpatInItaly]

6 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

  I mean who reaches out to someone to indicate they should really get themselves out there to date others??  

In my experience? People who are interested in someone else, or for whatever reason don't have the courage to tell someone the real reason they don't want to see them again. People who aren't able to say directly that they're just not feeling it and don't really want to see you again. 

He could be testing her, sure. But I personally would not waste my time on a dude I barely know who tested me like that. That would be a sign of bigger problems. 

 

[Miss Spider]

You can only really control yourself and how you react (insofar as you can even do that). So, I guess if I were in your shoes I would ask myself one of two things. 1. What is going on that my options are so scant that I'm focusing on guys giving me scraps 2. What is going on that I only  focus o men who give me scraps. Either way, it can probably be fixed

Edited April 14, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

7 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

 I mean who reaches out to someone to indicate they should really get themselves out there to date?

I agree 100% with Versacehottie's last post, V that was extremely insightful imho.

With regard to the above quote, for him to reach out and make a point of telling you to date others, to me it sounds like he's trying to push you away. 

The question is why?  I don't think it's lack of interest, it's something else, something deeper.

Combined with all his other actions, he may feel he's getting too close and it scares him, it's making him feel too vulnerable.

This DOES happen, if he didn't care, he'd just fade out.  Say nothing and hope you take the hint..

He sounds conflicted, I think you should follow V's advice.

Edited April 14, 2020 by poppyfields

[Haerts]

10 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

I'd say he was testing you.  I mean who reaches out to someone to indicate they should really get themselves out there to date others??  So if it happened like you described: HE reached out to you, HE broached this subject, including turning it to the specifics and suggesting that you date others, I think he's testing you in some way

That's one of the things that crossed my mind. But if he's trying to test me, he's doing that with the wrong person because I'm not really one to fight for someone who's showing lack of interest.

I swear it's been 2 weeks since I last contacted him first. I did reply his texts and answered a few of his video calls, but that's as far as I went.

Honestly though, I don't think he's testing me. It seems like he does like me, but he's unsure whether I'm relationship material or not because of the reasons I mentioned (recently broke up, ex went back to her country, etc) - which has nothing to do with myself. Basically, I'd say he's at that spot where he's not ready for a relationship, but at the same time he's feeling something. Now whether that something would eventually become something more or not, only time would be able to tell.

I'd go ahead and say he's insecure and that's playing a big role here too. He always mentions how he doesn't know what my situation will be like after October, so I guess he's very concerned I'd probably just go back to my country and leave him here just like his ex did.

And well, we all know how guys act when they're not interested. They just simply disappear. I really thought that's what would happen as soon as I stopped contacting him, but then every now and then there's another video call.

I do agree with you guys, the best thing I can do right now is remain not contacting and keep going with my life, in case I want to keep him as an option and then see where it goes. It's just so damn confusing though. But one thing is for sure, I continue not expecting anything from him, which is good.

 

[Haerts]

11 hours ago, stillafool said:

His interest seems very low so I would back off and start seeing others.  Is it really that hard to give up on someone you've only known 3 weeks who has low interest?

But I'm already doing that. lol

I went to 3 different dates since I backed off and there are a few more guys wanting to see me. The last one was pretty good btw, we've been chatting frequently/daily and he wants to see me again (we might go out to do some exercising tomorrow).

But to answer your question, yes, it is being quite hard because I do feel something - and I've felt it since the first day I met him. That never, ever happened to me before. That's probably why I haven't given up on him already.

4 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

You can only really control yourself and how you react (insofar as you can even do that). So, I guess if I were in your shoes I would ask myself one of two things. 1. What is going on that my options are so scant that I'm focusing on guys giving me scraps 2. What is going on that I only  focus o men who give me scraps. Either way, it can probably be fixed

Once again, I'm not necessarily focusing on him. I haven't shut the door, but I'm not sitting here waiting for him either. He's giving me scraps, I'm giving him less than that. 

The only reason why I'm still talking about him is because I do still feel something and I can sense he does as well. What I'm trying to figure out (and that's why I like hearing your opinions) is whether I should continue things like this to see where we are getting OR just cut ties completely and move on for good. I'm still sorta confused.

[Versacehottie]

Yeah what you should DO is virtually the same no matter what the explanation is for his behavior: look out for yourself don't expect anything from him, don't invest in him, do what you want to do.

He seems guy-fickle at the very least, haha it's like he will say those things so you have to convince him, nah I really want to see you or I really like you or i don't want to date others.  The problem with a fickle wishy washy guy is that dynamic usually continues. They will keep doing that because it's ego strokes over everything else and they are not really wanting a relationship; however do want the benefits of a relationship, which include the emotional ones.  I agree that he was trying to push you away either for you to pull him back or lay the groundwork that it's 100% no strings attached, aka on his terms.  Thus progressing or continuing to talk with him is like your implicit agreement to his pace, no pressure, no expectations.  

Sure, he could be stuck on his ex (i think i said so) or even someone else or wanting to just date around (lol might not be so easy in time of corona).  He definitely could be trying to let her down from whatever the 'real' reason he doesn't want to date her is if he says to date others--that's why I think the key is WHO led the conversation in that direction and made that suggestion.  If it was him, it sounds like the underlying tone is that he's trying to start a discussion that will not have a resolution, ie keep his options open without saying so; a push/pull.  It doesn't sound like shutting things down completely; it doesn't even shut them down for the time being as in "i just started dating someone I like better".  He's conflicted like poppy said and his convo says so IF he brought that up.  Totally agree that he sounds like a hot mess and I would not put any effort into it for the game playing (conscious or unconscious it's not a good sign for the near future).  I agree with the OP that he could be scared or doesn't want to put effort into a relationship that has an end date whether or not that is true doesn't matter it's his perception of it.  Bottom line, I think you should let him do every shred of work to grab your attention and don't wait or sideline yourself for it. I wouldn't shut the door completely, no need to but he's pure entertainment  If a guy was reading this, he'd laugh at how much we're analyzing it etc and just bottom line it with well you met him through tinder--i think this is one instance where it's reputation for what type of app it is holds true.  It's for a guy who is just wading back into dating, not looking for anything serious, for whatever multitude of reasons that are behind why they view themselves in that mindset at any given point.  

[Miss Spider]

Hmm you say you can give him less but do you think he has a thread going about you? Maybe I'm wrong, but he seems to have you feeling some kind of way because if he wasn't you would not even be considering him anymore. He would have slipped off your radar and one of the other guys you are seeing who is showing interest would have slid in and you'd be booed up now.  But if you are more specifically asking if you should stick around and keep dangling on the string of a low interest guy who is throwing some crumbs until he stops giving them out (most likely) or decides to  settle and give it a lukewarm shot, gonna have to go with an unequivocal no. I've seen that lesson learnt way too many times on here and through friends, and I don't think it benefits in any way to keep talking to someone who is low interest when you are high interest. He can tell you can date others to make him feel less guilty, but at the end of the day if it won't matter if you like him a lot  because the others won't live up 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Haerts]

27 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Hmm you say you can give him less but do you think he has a thread going about you? Maybe I'm wrong, but he seems to have you feeling some kind of way because if he wasn't you would not even be considering him anymore.

I meant I'm giving him less attention directly. But yeah, you're right. I am still thinking way too much about this situation, that's what matters in the end. I surely don't think he's actually thinking about us as much.

And yes, of course I am feeling, nothing big, maybe a fling. If I wasn't, there wouldn't be a thread about him in the first place. And if I didn't feel like he does feel something as well, there wouldn't be a thread either...