EarlOfPreston Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Hello all, Well, where do I begin? There's this woman that I used to work with at my part time gig that I've been keeping in contact with since she left our mutual place of employment a few months ago. Back when we worked together, we really had a great rapport with each other, and although we're very different from each other, and she's nothing like the type of girl that I'm usually attracted to, I still found her beautiful and intriguing. We did have quite the flirty vibe going on back and forth, so much so that, a couple of regular customers thought that we were an item. One even thought we were married. And sure, we may have made out a few times here and there, but I'm getting off track here.... So, here's my issue: I've asked her out 5 times. The 1st time, she said yes, but ended up having to help her dad at work. The 2nd time: No answer. The 3rd time: No answer. The 4th time: She couldn't because she already had plans with her sister. And this 5th time a few days ago: She said she "wasn't sure at the moment, but would let me know tomorrow." Well, 2 tomorrows have come and gone, and I haven't heard anything from her. Now, a few people that I work with (and that she used to work with) tell me that she's just using me, and that she doesn't seem to mind when I bring her coffee, or breakfast, or lunch, or dinner to her at work, or when I helped her with her rent, or the birthday and Christmas presents, etc.... But when I ask her to get together with me, she either can't go, or doesn't answer at all. Now, typically I would defend her, or stick up for her when they start talking badly about her, but I'm really starting to get fed up with the "no answers." I mean, I don't ask for much, and I understand that I'm nothing special and that she's way out of my league and all, but I think I AT LEAST deserve an answer. Am I wrong? I don't want to make her angry or hate me or something, so how do I tell her that I think I at least deserve an answer without sounding like an A-hole? I'm just really stuck here as to what to do. There's so many things that I want to say to her too, that should really be said in person, but the only time I get to see her in person is when I'm dropping something off to her at work, so it's really not a good venue, and I only get a couple of minutes with her when I stop by. I'm just in a bind here as to how to approach this without A: Having to say it over Snapchat. And B: without being a dick. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
amaysngrace Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Yes she’s out of your league, you’re considerate and she’s rude. Put that energy you’ve been wasting on her back into yourself instead. Say nothing more to her. Begging is what makes you look like an a-hole. 1
preraph Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Good lord, you have at least five answers, and they're all NO. What on earth is making you think you still don't know the answer? She isn't interested in you. If you've been buying her stuff, she was just accepting that, but it doesn't obligate her to anything. Helped her with rent? Someone you worked with that you're not even dating? That's just foolish, I'm sorry. She doesn't owe you anything. She has said no repeatedly. Stop buying her anything and stop thinking she's your friend or potential lover. She's not. You only want an answer so you can try to hold on to this delusion that she cares about you a while longer. All you'll get is played more for more favors. Please wake up. 6 1
PegNosePete Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, EarlOfPreston said: how do I tell her that I think I at least deserve an answer without sounding like an A-hole? You don't. You have gotten your answer loudly and clearly: she is not interested in dating you. You are being the classic Nice Guy. You've made an implicit contract with her: you bring her coffee and lunch and dinner and pay her rent sometimes, and in exchange she will date you. The only problem is, she doesn't know that you've made this contract. She just thinks you're a Nice Guy, bringing her lunch and showering her with gifts just because you like her, with no expectation of repayment. She isn't using you. She's just accepting offers that you make, without realising that you're inventing all sorts of terms and conditions in your head. Maybe she is naive for not realising that your gifts come with strings attached? But you need to realise that you're the unreasonable one here, putting conditions and expectations and "I deserve"s on your acts of "kindness". Kindness in quotes because if you're expecting something in return, it's not actually kindness. In fact she is probably also thinking "how do I do this without being an a-hole? This guy is always being nice to me, buying me lunch etc, and keeps asking me out but I don't want to date him, how do I turn him down without him thinking I'm an a-hole?"... and the answer she keeps coming up with, is "just ignore him - he'll get the hint and move on". Edited March 20, 2020 by PegNosePete 3
GeorgiaPeach1 Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Why don't you put that kind of effort into a Plain Jane who has a good heart? 1
Author EarlOfPreston Posted March 20, 2020 Author Posted March 20, 2020 37 minutes ago, preraph said: Good lord, you have at least five answers, and they're all NO. What on earth is making you think you still don't know the answer? She isn't interested in you. If you've been buying her stuff, she was just accepting that, but it doesn't obligate her to anything. Helped her with rent? Someone you worked with that you're not even dating? That's just foolish, I'm sorry. She doesn't owe you anything. She has said no repeatedly. Stop buying her anything and stop thinking she's your friend or potential lover. She's not. You only want an answer so you can try to hold on to this delusion that she cares about you a while longer. All you'll get is played more for more favors. Please wake up. OK, apparently you're under the wrong impression about something. Who said that I was "owed" anything? No, I don't have at least five answers. Like I said in the original post, I have 2 answers: 1 "yes," and 1 "I can't." I've had 3 non-answers. OK, so if she's not interested in me, she could.... Ohhhh, I don't know.... SAY THAT SHE'S NOT INTERESTED, MAYBE? 28 minutes ago, PegNosePete said: You don't. You have gotten your answer loudly and clearly: she is not interested in dating you. You are being the classic Nice Guy. You've made an implicit contract with her: you bring her coffee and lunch and dinner and pay her rent sometimes, and in exchange she will date you. The only problem is, she doesn't know that you've made this contract. She just thinks you're a Nice Guy, bringing her lunch and showering her with gifts just because you like her, with no expectation of repayment. She isn't using you. She's just accepting offers that you make, without realising that you're inventing all sorts of terms and conditions in your head. Maybe she is naive for not realising that your gifts come with strings attached? But you need to realise that you're the unreasonable one here, putting conditions and expectations and "I deserve"s on your acts of "kindness". Kindness in quotes because if you're expecting something in return, it's not actually kindness. In fact she is probably also thinking "how do I do this without being an a-hole? This guy is always being nice to me, buying me lunch etc, and keeps asking me out but I don't want to date him, how do I turn him down without him thinking I'm an a-hole?"... and the answer she keeps coming up with, is "just ignore him - he'll get the hint and move on". Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Who said anything about contracts, or terms and conditions, or that there was "strings attached" to anything? Because I don't remember saying ANY of that. Sure, I do bring her lunch or dinner or coffee at work because I like her with no expectation of repayment. What on Earth is wrong with that?? And as far as "deserving," the only thing that I think I deserve is an answer.... Whatever that answer is. I mean, I certainly hope you're not saying that if you tell someone that you're "going to get back to them tomorrow," and then you don't, that it's OK. She doesn't HAVE TO think "how do I do this without being an a-hole." If she doesn't want to hang out with me, all she has to do is, hmmm, let me think here.... Say she doesn't want to! Really?? "Just ignore him- he'll get the hint and move on?" You CAN'T be serious! So, back to the original question: How do I say, "Ummmm, hey, you never got back to me." without sounding like an A-hole?
preraph Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) She's given you an answer over and over by refusing to go out with you. This is how women say "No." She's saying no without being brutal because you worked with her and because she doesn't want to get personal with you and have any serious personal talk because she isn't interested. I'm not going to condone her accepting your gifts, but really, I don't know the work situation. I used to get gifts all the time at work because I was the client without it meaning anything romantic. Still, I don't absolve her for her part. But no, she does not owe you a blunt confrontation, and you seem to think she does. She's said no five times. You just don't want to believe it and now you're mad and trying to force a confrontation so you can get a word in with her. You've created most of this awkward mess and you need to accept reality and back off entirely. She was being nice because you worked with her and/or because she likes free stuff, but it's perfectly clear she doesn't want you, and if you don't know that, you are the naive one. Edited March 20, 2020 by preraph 3
strawberryshortstack Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 2 hours ago, EarlOfPreston said: Now, typically I would defend her, or stick up for her when they start talking badly about her, but I'm really starting to get fed up with the "no answers." I mean, I don't ask for much, and I understand that I'm nothing special and that she's way out of my league and all, but I think I AT LEAST deserve an answer. Am I wrong? No answer IS an answer 4 1
Author EarlOfPreston Posted March 20, 2020 Author Posted March 20, 2020 51 minutes ago, preraph said: She's given you an answer over and over by refusing to go out with you. This is how women say "No." She's saying no without being brutal because you worked with her and because she doesn't want to get personal with you and have any serious personal talk because she isn't interested. I'm not going to condone her accepting your gifts, but really, I don't know the work situation. I used to get gifts all the time at work because I was the client without it meaning anything romantic. Still, I don't absolve her for her part. But no, she does not owe you a blunt confrontation, and you seem to think she does. She's said no five times. You just don't want to believe it and now you're mad and trying to force a confrontation so you can get a word in with her. You've created most of this awkward mess and you need to accept reality and back off entirely. She was being nice because you worked with her and/or because she likes free stuff, but it's perfectly clear she doesn't want you, and if you don't know that, you are the naive one. Again, she didn't give me an answer over and over.... That's the whole point! Women say "no," by using the word "no," just like anyone else does. And, again, she didn't say no five times. She said yes once, I can't once, and didn't answer 3 other times. I DON'T WANT a blunt confrontation! That's the whole premise of this thread.... Of how to AVOID that! 14 minutes ago, strawberryshortstack said: No answer IS an answer Nope. Wrong.
strawberryshortstack Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, EarlOfPreston said: Again, she didn't give me an answer over and over.... That's the whole point! Women say "no," by using the word "no," just like anyone else does. And, again, she didn't say no five times. She said yes once, I can't once, and didn't answer 3 other times. I DON'T WANT a blunt confrontation! That's the whole premise of this thread.... Of how to AVOID that! Nope. Wrong. You can believe that if you want, but I assure you, her lack of an answer IS absolutely an answer. 5
preraph Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Yeah, you're just wrong about that, Earl. It shows lack of experience or you'd already know what we say is true. Most women make excuses instead of saying outright no. Or they ghost you like she's done. Most of them do NOT say, NO, I DON'T want to go out with you. Because then you're going to be butthurt and get ugly, like you're doing now. 2
Author EarlOfPreston Posted March 20, 2020 Author Posted March 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, strawberryshortstack said: You can believe that if you want, but I assure you, her lack of an answer IS absolutely an answer. Well, seeing how that is a literal impossibility, then yes I will believe that. 8 minutes ago, preraph said: Yeah, you're just wrong about that, Earl. It shows lack of experience or you'd already know what we say is true. Most women make excuses instead of saying outright no. Or they ghost you like she's done. Most of them do NOT say, NO, I DON'T want to go out with you. Because then you're going to be butthurt and get ugly, like you're doing now. You see, it's the exact OPPOSITE. If she didn't want to and just told me that, I would understand that completely. It's the NOT ANSWERING that is unacceptable. I don't know why everyone has such a hard time understanding that.
SumGuy Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, strawberryshortstack said: You can believe that if you want, but I assure you, her lack of an answer IS absolutely an answer. What peraph has said and the above, no answer is an answer...especially when repeated. It is called taking a hint. 1
preraph Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, EarlOfPreston said: Well, seeing how that is a literal impossibility, then yes I will believe that. You see, it's the exact OPPOSITE. If she didn't want to and just told me that, I would understand that completely. It's the NOT ANSWERING that is unacceptable. I don't know why everyone has such a hard time understanding that. Because it's not up to YOU what SHE does. She's not you and she doesn't think like you or have to act like you wish she'd act. 2 1
Author EarlOfPreston Posted March 20, 2020 Author Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, SumGuy said: What peraph has said and the above, no answer is an answer...especially when repeated. It is called taking a hint. "Taking a hint?" Is that some new language? I don't speak "hint." I speak English.
SumGuy Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, EarlOfPreston said: Well, seeing how that is a literal impossibility, then yes I will believe that. You see, it's the exact OPPOSITE. If she didn't want to and just told me that, I would understand that completely. It's the NOT ANSWERING that is unacceptable. I don't know why everyone has such a hard time understanding that. Oh we understand it. You are not understanding basic social interaction or why she might not be direct in her answer. Although reaction is just more proof of why women tend not to give direct answers. They don't believe you will accept their answer completely, you will argue with them. In fact, most guys that would accept rejection completely without arguing are also good with the failure to respond answer. Not all communication is in verbal nor even black and white. Her not getting back to you on a question is a non-verbal answer. 2 1
SumGuy Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, EarlOfPreston said: "Taking a hint?" Is that some new language? I don't speak "hint." I speak English. Good one. But you get what I am saying. Not all communication is verbal or even direct, or black and white. Humans are pretty complex social creatures believe it or not. Social skills and signals is a language, one that it behooves you to learn. Caveat, different signals and such for different cultures, etc., but they all have them. P.S. In fact your response to the responses here that don't validate your view is kind of justifying this women not answering you directly. Edited March 20, 2020 by SumGuy 4
preraph Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Ever heard the saying "Actions speak louder than words?" She hasn't agreed to go out with you = she doesn't want to go out with you. Look, I'm sorry you're hurt about this and I don't agree with your self-deprecating assessment that you're nothing special. You'd be special to someone. There is no script for these things. I feel she took when she shouldn't have (but now I'm thinking maybe she did hint for you to stop showering her with favors and you might have ignored it). If she asked you to pay her rent, SHE isn't a good person and is a user. So my sympathies if that was the case. Otherwise, if you just gave her all this stuff for little or no reason, that's on you. But either way, women taking money and goods is no agreement of reciprocation, but you shouldn't DO that and should sell yourself on your own merit to a normal woman who wouldn't want to take things from you just for the heck of it. You've got to be a better picker in the future and not give expecting that to count for something, because if a woman is a taker and there's not already a romantic relationship in play, that means nothing. Don't ever do a lot of stuff for someone who isn't reciprocating or any woman who you aren't AlREADY dating and kissing, etc. It's not the right order of things. It's socially off. 3
diana9 Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 I would give up. If she was interested, than she would gladly go out with you. Those were only excuses. 2
Kitty Tantrum Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 20 hours ago, EarlOfPreston said: Women say "no," by using the word "no," just like anyone else does. ... I DON'T WANT a blunt confrontation! FIRST OF ALL: no, they do not. SECOND OF ALL: insisting that she has to explicitly say "no" before you accept the answer she has already given you is literally INSISTING on a blunt confrontation. 3 1
Springsummer Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 first stage of grief and loss: Denial https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/ I think OP is in the Denial and bargaining stages simultaneously 3
Mystery4u Posted March 22, 2020 Posted March 22, 2020 OP I can tell you are very inexperienced with women. And that is fine, we were all there one time. Take the advice of others who are lot more experienced than you. Everyone is trying to help you, to better yourself for the future. She is not interested in you at all. If she was she would have jumped at the chance to meet you the first time you asked. Stop buying her things. One day you will meet someone who appreciates you for you and deserves the attention. She is not that person. 2
oldtruck Posted March 22, 2020 Posted March 22, 2020 On 3/20/2020 at 3:23 PM, EarlOfPreston said: "Taking a hint?" Is that some new language? I don't speak "hint." I speak English. your english? people here are being blunt with you and you refuse to grasp that one, this woman does not see you as BF material two, that there are many ways of saying no, without using NO normal for women to let men done easy, to be kind, not embarrass the man when Rejecting him and to prevent those men that cannot handle rejection well from going crazy on them. 1
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