Am I just a crutch?

[MadlyDeeply]

Beca so sorry to hear it's not a good day today, sending lots of hugs back! I often wonder how you are getting on, like i know you, think you are at 15weeks NC now aren't you? It must be much harder for you cause you even got to live with yours so created even more memories. Mark said on my list of things to remember that this is one of the risks we take, that they could go back, really feel for you.

A few people have said to remember that mm are not prizes and NC means no more extra pain, i like both of these! Also why do we want to be with somebody that doesn't want to be with us, they love their security more! We should feel sorry for their wives really and the next other woman that takes our place!! This is our life and one day it's all going to be over so why are we wasting time, energy, thoughts on somebody else that doesn't deserve us or our love. I always remember this saying, when a h leaves his W to be with his mistress he creates a vacancy in that position!

Anyway yes we are stronger than we think, must concentrate on our blessings in life, every time feel a little sad squeeze our children a little bit harder and be grateful. 

Shall look back at this one day and most probably will feel ashamed of ourselves. Onwards and upwards

[pepperbird]

3 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Thank you for your list of things, anymore for me? Struggling today. 

Jimmy this sounds so silly but I'm writing this through tears. Our connection was or is absolutely amazing. Eye contact is so strong, never took our eyes off each other. Was happy just to cuddle sometimes just to be close, was heaven for both of us, he said he had never felt this before that i drove him mental. He couldn't understand why i love HIM, said i could get anyone i wanted! Last couple of times we met before lockdown he told me he loved me more than his w, although he couldn't just switch off his feelings for her which i understood, he said i completed him. He always said he couldn't get enough of me and couldn't imagine not seeing me.  Occasionally he said if he had to make a choice he would choose me, other times though her, cause of their history. He used to say I'm the best girlfriend he has ever had. Obviously I'm now taking all this with a massive pinch of salt as still NC since Sat! I'm so glad i don't have to work at the moment as its all too painful but i know it's all my own fault. 
 

how many girlfriends has your married man had?

[MadlyDeeply]

Well Pepperbird, when we first started seeing each other he told me he had been in love 3or 4 times. I would probably say he has lost count of how many flings, one night stands etc he has had. He has always said he has never had anything like this. I always believed what he told me before as we knew each other for yrs before our a. He has admitted to telling me a few little white lies only to not hurt me, which i don't like but because i love him I've learnt to love him as he is, the good, the bad and the ugly! Since coming on here I've started doubting everything he says. I have reached this point now because I cannot cope with the jealousy anymore. 

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Also why do we want to be with somebody that doesn't want to be with us, they love their security more! We should feel sorry for their wives really and the next other woman that takes our place!!

Madly, with due respect - the same is true for you, no? Are you not staying with your husband because you also love your security more? If you wanted to be single and free yourself up to find greater happiness, you could. It wouldn't be easy, but you could. You are not obligated to stay with someone you no longer love. Take this man out of the equation for a moment, and you're also attached to that sense of security, based on what you have written in this thread. From everything you have said, that security is precisely the reason you have stayed in an unsatisfying marriage, too. 

Could your MM not feel sorry for your husband, given your own behaviour? 

I don't say these things to be harsh. I promise you that. But it doesn't help to throw stones from a glass house. You have a lot of more power here than you think, and have made choices that have shaped your life as it is today. You don't have to wait around for this dude to decide what happens in your life. 

[MadlyDeeply]

ExpatinItaly thank you for your comments as always. Yes it probably did sound like that to you but I'm staying put for my family unit, my h is too, we are good friends is how i would describe our relationship and we know once our children have grown there probably won't be anything left. I would only leave for my mm as I'm in love with him, not to have a single life that's not what i want. This is my first and only affair. My mm should never have got m as has been unfaithful all his life that's why i said we should feel sorry for the mm wives.
I don't have any power as far as my mm is concerned only to say goodbye of course. Your right though I'm choosing to stay with my h but not for security only for our children. 
 

[ExpatInItaly]

30 minutes ago, MadlyDeeply said:

I would only leave for my mm as I'm in love with him, not to have a single life that's not what i want. This is my first and only affair. My mm should never have got m as has been unfaithful all his life that's why i said we should feel sorry for the mm wives.
I don't have any power as far as my mm is concerned only to say goodbye of course. Your right though I'm choosing to stay with my h but not for security only for our children. 
 

So, if I'm reading this right, you would leave if MM said he was leaving his wife for you? If so, that means you're not staying for the children. Staying for the children would mean you'd stay even if MM came to you tomorrow and said he's divorcing his wife and wants to start a life with you. Would you really tell him no, sorry, not until the kids are grown and out of the house? That's what staying for the children would mean, Madly. 

I agree that MM shouldn't have gotten married, and yes, one could easily feel sorry for his wife. But the sympathy could be just as easily directed towards your husband. You're behaving like a single woman and not honoring your marriage, either. Being good friends rather than romantic partners doesn't mean he wouldn't be terribly hurt by what you're doing. This being your only affair also doesn't mean it would hurt him any less. One could very much feel sorry for your husband. Your MM might be thinking the same thing about him as you are thinking about his wife. 

The bottom line, I suppose, is that I fail to really see the difference between what you accuse MM of doing, and what you're doing yourself. The circumstances are different, sure, but you're both doing some pretty unsavory things. Maybe use this time apart from him to really reflect on what has become of your life, and what will happen post-MM. He's going to fade out someday. What is next for you, when that happens?

[MadlyDeeply]

ExpatinItaly, I'm staying for the children, if it wasn't for them I wouldn't want to just have a friendship with a h, I would want more. I don't think I need to worry about mm leaving, we are not even in contact at the moment. If his W left and he was single for the first in his life, we would still carry on living separately, although I would have to then tell my h I had met someone, so that we could date properly. I still wouldn't want to leave my children. If we dated and eventually wanted to take the next step of living together we would then but at least i would know mm better and would be in a better position to proceed.  

Yes my h would still be terribly hurt if i said we were to separate but not as bad as if he thought everything was perfect with us. I think the difference is that myself and my h both know we are in this m for our children, we have had many conversations about it. My mm and his W have never had such conversations, think they just accept what they have. Their children although still live at home are grown up, so would be easier for them to separate now. 

I think once my a fades away as you say, I will just have to fulfill my life in other ways and just accept what I have with my h and concentrate on family life until children are older. 

[BaileyB]

You should really read kitkats thread, particularly her last update. She too bought everything her MM told her, however a discussion with his wife told a very different story. As it turned out, the woman he painted as a very unreasonable woman was actually very pleasant and more reasonable than she ever could have imagined. 

I too have great empathy for your husband. You settle by staying in an unhappy marriage “for the children” and yet you behave in ways that would absolutely destroy their world should you be discovered or MM ever finds himself single and wanting to mingle... That is incongruent. You can’t even begin to appreciate how much you are rationalizing this affair...

Perhaps you should give your husband the truth about his life, to be sure that he feels the same. You say that he is of the same opinion, but let’s be honest here - he only has half the information... You are playing with a full deck, while he is not. His opinion may change, if he knew the truth about his marriage. 

Not a doubt in my mind, I would rather have two happy parents who live in separate homes than grow up in a home with unhappy, unfaithful parents. Not a doubt in my mind...

Edited April 2, 2020 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

20 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

 Yes my h would still be terribly hurt if i said we were to separate but not as bad as if he thought everything was perfect with us. I think the difference is that myself and my h both know we are in this m for our children, we have had many conversations about it.

I meant terribly hurt if he finds out you're cheating on him, OP. 

I realize you apparently both know you're in this for your children, but he doesn't know you're having an affair. The perceived situation (for him) is completely different than the reality you're actually living. As such, the status quo that you believe you and your husband have both accepted in your marriage is simply not the truth anymore. You have changed the goalposts and didn't tell him. 

Being in it for the children would also mean you're not behaving in ways that risk blowing up the family unit. I think you need to shake the fog away here, and see that you're doing the exact opposite of protecting your family by staying with your husband but having an affair at the same time. The risk you're exposing them to is astronomical, and I have to say, I don't think you quite get that yet. You have no clue if this affair will one day come to light, but if it does, watch out. Your life will never quite look the same. 

To that end, I would also encourage you to follow BaileyB's suggestion and have a look at kitkat's thread. You will see there how these affairs often play out and what a facade married men (especially serial cheaters) paint for their OW. More often than not, a lot of it is bullcrap. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[mark clemson]

I agree with @ExpatInItaly's point about the risks you are taking if you continue the A, but it sounds like you're not going to?

 

5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I would also encourage you to follow BaileyB's suggestion and have a look at kitkat's thread. You will see there how these affairs often play out and what a facade married men (especially serial cheaters) paint for their OW. More often than not, a lot of it is bullcrap. 

FYI, this is @LilKatKat's thread referenced. There are 2 follow-ons as well

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/575202-never-thought-id-be-an-ow-long-post/

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/587881-omfg-did-i-ever-dodge-a-nuclear-bomb/

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/591925-not-sure-what-to-make-of-xmm/

 

It's quite a bit of reading, and could probably be converted into a novella (sorry LKK ). But consider it an investment in learning from others' situations perhaps...

[Amethyst68]

Quote

I know he would be hurt though as he once said he would forgive an affair because he loves me so much. 

You keep posting about how there's nothing between you and your BH and it's the  same for him but you the above quote is in your own words.

It contradicts everything you've been posting and doesn't support this narrative you've decided on now but again it's what you wrote!

 

[JTSW]

On 4/1/2020 at 8:38 PM, MadlyDeeply said:

I would only leave for my mm as I'm in love with him, not to have a single life that's not what i want. This is my first and only affair. My mm should never have got m as has been unfaithful all his life

And he would do the exact same thing to you. 

Men like him who have had affairs all his life is not going to stop.

His wife got pregnant and married him in the hopes of locking him down, but it didnt change anything.

This is what he is always going to do. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by JTSW

[MadlyDeeply]

Hello to you all. I know what you all say is correct and v good advice. I have read most of katkats threadfeel so sorry for her and would hate for my story to end like that. I prey all the time that I don't have a d day, that's why i know it needs to end.

I know mm would never change and I would have to just accept that about him. I don't think we will ever be together, it's all wishful thinking (not sure why I would want him though really) but have to accept him as he is even with this a. 

I keep telling myself he is not my kind of a person at all, unreliable, makes me jealous, massive ego, controlling, all talk, selfish, gets angry, doesn't know how to deal with conflict etc, doesn't like his own company. He puts on a front as quite sensitive, he is a v proud man, v tactile with everyone, has problems with love/trust/emotions. Man Child perhaps, also think he has a split personality as can be very caring, hardworking, happy, makes me laugh etc. Why am I so attracted to him, apart from the fact i think he is gorgeous, i do try to see past this and see his heart which looks like a heart of stone doesn't it! Tell me, i can't understand why i love him so much apart from this connection we share. 

My husband is 100% faithful, kind, good looking, caring, happy, funny, good husband, amazing dad. Loves me! What is wrong with me. I feel like I'm going mad. 

My h has said in the past he would forgive an affair but also knows deep down we won't have anything after the children. I know he loves me and I should just be grateful for what I've got. 

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

My h has said in the past he would forgive an affair but also knows deep down we won't have anything after the children. I know he loves me and I should just be grateful for what I've got. 

Saying it and actually doing it can be completely different. We don't really know how we would react until we're in the situation. I can think of two people close to me who also once professed the same of their own spouses - until it actually happened. I do believe they both tried to forgive and move past it, but in the end, they just couldn't do it. Both couples are divorced now. 

Do you think you've hung on to this notion as a way to justify (to yourself) continuing the affair? This notion that he'd forgive you and you're really just good friends anyway?

[Starswillshine]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Saying it and actually doing it can be completely different. We don't really know how we would react until we're in the situation. I can think of two people close to me who also once professed the same of their own spouses - until it actually happened. I do believe they both tried to forgive and move past it, but in the end, they just couldn't do it. Both couples are divorced now.

I was one of those people. I loved my husband so much, I figured I could forgive an affair. But then it all happened, and I just couldnt get passed it. The mind movies. I would have to run to the bathroom to vomit every time he touched me. The triggers were awful. When I became suicidal, I knew I needed to get away. I could not allow the person who did this to me to continue to have me in his life. I was too good of a woman to have been treated like that, and I left. With zero regrets. 

This man is admittedly a good husband. He may see his value and worth, too. 

[MadlyDeeply]

Hello to all you helpful people out there, i really appreciate you being here for me all this time, i couldn't have managed this without you, thank you so much.
Mm contacted me a couple of days ago, he hasn't changed at all, but nice to hear from him as NC for 5 days(long time for us)
I didn't get much sleep last night thinking about everything but i feel better for it as i think i have realised my mm DOESN'T truly love me. I have kept this a of ours going all this time cause i was desperately wanting confirmation that he felt the same and i didn't want to end it if his feelings were real. I could even live with being the ow if i felt that he really loved me but after doing loads of analysing and even more analysing, until i didn't want to analyse anymore, think I've finally realised! If he truly loved me he wouldn't keep me hanging by stopping txt conversation, he would be alot nicer all round, he wouldn't cancel with no good real reason, he would want to be with me, this list goes on!

I think because we knew each other for yrs before i felt safe with him and felt i could trust him! I feel better cause i have realised he just loves the way i make him feel, I'm sure this is it. He even told me a few times that he loves the way i make him feel and i make him feel so young again. I remember reading this on here...... "he may truly think he feels love to you, but he loves how you make him feel... he doesn't love you. B/c when you love someone, you think about their needs before your own. He's only thinking about HIS needs, HIS wants, HIS desires... not yours"
Question now is, do we end by text cause of isolation? I never expected it to end like this but don't think i can cope for much longer. I will see him loads as we live so close and he is friends of my husband's but i don't have to look his way, i can be strong, i don't have to put up with anymore rubbish. Must remind myself NC will equal no more pain and he is NO prize. My children yesterday made me laugh so much i realise I'm much happier concentrating on them, they make me happier than mm could ever do. Obviously this is going to really hurt cause like i always say "I love him so much" but know i can't carry on feeling like this. I'm sure in time i will feel much better as a person knowing I've done the right thing. 

[JimmyNorth]

33 minutes ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Hello to all you helpful people out there, i really appreciate you being here for me all this time, i couldn't have managed this without you, thank you so much.
Mm contacted me a couple of days ago, he hasn't changed at all, but nice to hear from him as NC for 5 days(long time for us)
I didn't get much sleep last night thinking about everything but i feel better for it as i think i have realised my mm DOESN'T truly love me. I have kept this a of ours going all this time cause i was desperately wanting confirmation that he felt the same and i didn't want to end it if his feelings were real. I could even live with being the ow if i felt that he really loved me but after doing loads of analysing and even more analysing, until i didn't want to analyse anymore, think I've finally realised! If he truly loved me he wouldn't keep me hanging by stopping txt conversation, he would be alot nicer all round, he wouldn't cancel with no good real reason, he would want to be with me, this list goes on!

I think because we knew each other for yrs before i felt safe with him and felt i could trust him! I feel better cause i have realised he just loves the way i make him feel, I'm sure this is it. He even told me a few times that he loves the way i make him feel and i make him feel so young again. I remember reading this on here...... "he may truly think he feels love to you, but he loves how you make him feel... he doesn't love you. B/c when you love someone, you think about their needs before your own. He's only thinking about HIS needs, HIS wants, HIS desires... not yours"
Question now is, do we end by text cause of isolation? I never expected it to end like this but don't think i can cope for much longer. I will see him loads as we live so close and he is friends of my husband's but i don't have to look his way, i can be strong, i don't have to put up with anymore rubbish. Must remind myself NC will equal no more pain and he is NO prize. My children yesterday made me laugh so much i realise I'm much happier concentrating on them, they make me happier than mm could ever do. Obviously this is going to really hurt cause like i always say "I love him so much" but know i can't carry on feeling like this. I'm sure in time i will feel much better as a person knowing I've done the right thing. 

It will be interesting to see how he handles your NC. Looks like he still attempts to contact you. 

Maybe once you move on and really be over him, he might end up chasing you. You never know.

[ExpatInItaly]

I would end text conversations, too. At some point, you'll have to wean yourself off of him emotionally anyway. No better time than the present to start. 

[MadlyDeeply]

Hello Jimmy, yes it will be very interesting won't it! We haven't said our goodbyes yet, I'm dreading it. He did contact me earlier but i ignored him. I'm trying to prepare myself, the distancing is helping and the fact I'm trying to see all his bad points!

How would you have coped if your girlfriend was still your ow and you was in isolation with your wife? Do you think the distance would have drove you crazy or would you have just made the most of this terrible situation at home with W. 

[BaileyB]

I would simply send him a text that says you wish him well, but you have decided that it’s time to end the relationship. Ask him again, not to contact you. And then block him. 

You don’t actually owe him anything. People end relationships everyday. He is a big boy and he has dealt with this before, no doubt. His wife will console him and it’s entirely possible that he will find someone else, when this isolation is over. 

I think this is a good decision, for you. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by BaileyB

[JimmyNorth]

8 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Hello Jimmy, yes it will be very interesting won't it! We haven't said our goodbyes yet, I'm dreading it. He did contact me earlier but i ignored him. I'm trying to prepare myself, the distancing is helping and the fact I'm trying to see all his bad points!

How would you have coped if your girlfriend was still your ow and you was in isolation with your wife? Do you think the distance would have drove you crazy or would you have just made the most of this terrible situation at home with W. 

In my case if I was in isolation and I would be finding a way to see my OW, even if it was for a short time. I’d want to see her, touch her and feel her. I’d probably break isolation rules and find a way to make it happen. 

Your MM might end up needing his fix and do this. You can test him and tell him that some other new guy will be keeping you company. He will probably freak out a little bit.

See, it just all depends. Does your MM look at you like your a goddess? Does he love being next to you? Do you give him way more than what his BS ever gave him?

[MadlyDeeply]

I know Jimmy you would do anything for the one you love. It must be amazing for you now you get to see your goddess all the time, so happy for you. My mm has said about meeting a couple of times but I can't risk it cause of my children. The answer is yes to all three of your questions, it's just so sad that we can't be together, I have to keep telling myself I could never trust him anyway. Thank you for your advice. 

ExpatinItaly and Bailey thank you for your wise words too. 

I wish everyone well, take care now. 

[pepperbird]

21 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

In my case if I was in isolation and I would be finding a way to see my OW, even if it was for a short time. I’d want to see her, touch her and feel her. I’d probably break isolation rules and find a way to make it happen. 

Your MM might end up needing his fix and do this. You can test him and tell him that some other new guy will be keeping you company. He will probably freak out a little bit.

See, it just all depends. Does your MM look at you like your a goddess? Does he love being next to you? Do you give him way more than what his BS ever gave him?

test him by making up a story? I would think it would make more sense to ask him.

[BaileyB]

On 4/5/2020 at 4:25 PM, JimmyNorth said:

Does your MM look at you like your a goddess? Does he love being next to you? Do you give him way more than what his BS ever gave him?

I’m sure he looked at his wife much the same way, at one time. 

In all honesty, he could think the sun rises and sets for you MD, it doesn’t change the fact that he is married to another woman and that he’s made no plans to leave that marriage. That’s your problem. I’m sure he does think you are absolutely wonderful, I’m sure you make him very happy when you are together - it doesn’t change the reality of the situation. 

[JimmyNorth]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:06 AM, BaileyB said:

I’m sure he looked at his wife much the same way, at one time. 

In all honesty, he could think the sun rises and sets for you MD, it doesn’t change the fact that he is married to another woman and that he’s made no plans to leave that marriage. That’s your problem. I’m sure he does think you are absolutely wonderful, I’m sure you make him very happy when you are together - it doesn’t change the reality of the situation. 

That is very true. If the MM truly wants OP, then he would make the decision to set his BS free and live his next chapter with OP.

The only issue is sometimes the MM has a terrible time gathering his real thoughts and finding himself and who he is. Obviously he would have never been a MM to any OW if he was of sound mind. So in the midst of all this double life drama the MM lives, he is constantly feeling torn by his wants/desires and the safety of his BS that he is obviously not fully in love with.