Am I just a crutch?

[pepperbird]

On 4/13/2020 at 5:51 AM, MadlyDeeply said:

. 

Question for all. There is a post on Ls  about a W who's h has been having an a for 12 yrs he sounds like my mm, obviously not a good thing but people on there think he loves his ow why is he different from my mm loving me? Is it the length of the a? Things like this confuse me further. 

I think there's a lot of bias in the responses. Projection, which is understandable.

[pepperbird]

On 4/12/2020 at 3:05 AM, JimmyNorth said:

It’s quite possible that OP was no longer attracted to her H. Or maybe the relationship was just no longer appealing. Maybe the MM produced a great attraction and OP could not fight her feelings. These things could have slowly developed over time which inevitably built up a giant snowball of romantic tension that exploded.

OP and MM most likely have intense feelings toward eachother, even if it’s wrong, that will be hard to turn off.

at a time when people are being TOLD to stay at home and given reasons why, this just comes off as ridiculous. Even the OP admits that.
Personally, I don't buy into his " we couldn't help it, we're in love" excuse you seem so sold on. 
You can't control your feelings. You can control what you do about them.

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I’m thinking the Husband would hurt, BUT....OP did already ask for an open marriage. That in itself should be enough to set a new foundation on what the husband should be expecting for the future. Thus making her exit not as painful as a bomb drop and thinking his wife was perfect.

Respectfully, I disagree. I agree that he probably would not be completely shocked. However, given that he turned down the idea of open marriage, I think he would be incredibly hurt that she went ahead and did it anyway, without his knowledge or consent. He's already made it clear he didn't want to share her with other men. Finding out she violated that and did what she wanted anyway is likely going to be painful as hell. 

[pepperbird]

On 4/12/2020 at 11:46 AM, sandylee1 said:

There's only so much one can blame MM. At some point individuals need to take responsibility for their behavior. 

The notion of bud bad wolf in the guise of MM, does not absolve a fully functioning adult from taking personal responsibility for their wreckless behaviour. 

 

I agree. My point was that this guy is not some wounded soul, just looking for the right woman to come along and save him from his life of misery. He's a serial cheater. He's not capable of being faithful,  but he tries to keep that under wraps while he cats around. I doubt he cares that much for OP,, meanwhile, she's tying herself in knots trying to rationalize his behaviour.
OP, you can either pine for him, knowing he's not worthy of you, or you can kick him to the curb. It's all up to you.

Edited April 14, 2020 by pepperbird

[pepperbird]

On 4/13/2020 at 4:22 AM, JimmyNorth said:

I agree. Do you also believe, that there can be times where a serial cheater MM can have his ways changed by that “one amazing woman”?

What's with the projection? It's as if you're trying to rationalize your own actions.
The OP is hung up on a serial cheater. She has a marriage she is not happy in and she has unilaterally decided to ask her husband to unknowingly assume risk to his health, both physical and mental. Without his permission or consent, she has invited another man in to their marriage ( not as in an "open marriage", but he's still influencing it even if the husband isn't aware that's even going on).

 

[Starswillshine]

20 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Respectfully, I disagree. I agree that he probably would not be completely shocked. However, given that he turned down the idea of open marriage, I think he would be incredibly hurt that she went ahead and did it anyway, without his knowledge or consent. He's already made it clear he didn't want to share her with other men. Finding out she violated that and did what she wanted anyway is likely going to be painful as hell. 

Even worse, when this all comes out, he will realize that she came up with the idea to assuage her own guilt because she was ALREADY in the affair. Will be hard to keep such a good relationship for the kids she is supposedly trying to protect by sleeping with her husband's friend. When this all comes out, she'll be the one wearing the scarlet "A" meanwhile, the MM will go about his life. She'll be shamed and discarded. Town gossip. Kids will have to deal with the fall out. Always amazes me when people say they won't divorce because it will hurt the kids, but yet do things that will cause more hurt and shame upon them. They are the ones that will pay for her actions.

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

Even worse, when this all comes out, he will realize that she came up with the idea to assuage her own guilt because she was ALREADY in the affair. Will be hard to keep such a good relationship for the kids she is supposedly trying to protect by sleeping with her husband's friend. When this all comes out, she'll be the one wearing the scarlet "A" meanwhile, the MM will go about his life. She'll be shamed and discarded. Town gossip. Kids will have to deal with the fall out. Always amazes me when people say they won't divorce because it will hurt the kids, but yet do things that will cause more hurt and shame upon them. They are the ones that will pay for her actions.

I will never forget how, one night during my husband's affair, he had been gone all night. It was four in the morning, hot as heck and I was sitting with my autistic son, who is almost non-verbal, on our front porch because neither one of us could sleep.
Her looked up at me ( he was so little back then) with those huge blue eyes of his (just like his dad's)  and asked me "where's daddy?"
It may sound like a small thing, but it broke my heart. I thought I'd been so good about shielding them from the nonsense, but it turned out, they were still being hurt. Little eyes and ears pick up so much parents aren't aware of, and knowing mine were hurt because of crap we should have worked through will never sit well with me.

OP, you sound like you love your kids- whatever choices you make, please put them first

Edited April 14, 2020 by pepperbird

[JimmyNorth]

3 hours ago, pepperbird said:

What's with the projection? It's as if you're trying to rationalize your own actions.
The OP is hung up on a serial cheater. She has a marriage she is not happy in and she has unilaterally decided to ask her husband to unknowingly assume risk to his health, both physical and mental. Without his permission or consent, she has invited another man in to their marriage ( not as in an "open marriage", but he's still influencing it even if the husband isn't aware that's even going on).

 

Definitely not trying to project or rationalize my own actions. Just playing devils advocate for one sec. Follow me for a moment....can you agree that MM has demonstrated that he really has no “love” for his wife? Also, can you agree that OP is pretty much done with her H?

You see, I know that many here will say that this is all screwed up and OP and MM should stop what they are doing. And that’s fine, I get it. But let’s really look at the real deal here. OP stated she wants an open marriage...can you agree that she has lost that feeling, regardless if her H disagrees with that option?

Listen guys, I totally get your point of view here. But I believe that OP’s marriage has been over for quite a while now. So now she’s into a man that possibly might be into her the same way.

Even if I’m off here, can you agree that maybe there’s a small chance that there could be something real? This doesn’t sound like a fling...it’s been going on for years!!

 

[pepperbird]

29 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

Definitely not trying to project or rationalize my own actions. Just playing devils advocate for one sec. Follow me for a moment....can you agree that MM has demonstrated that he really has no “love” for his wife? Also, can you agree that OP is pretty much done with her H?

You see, I know that many here will say that this is all screwed up and OP and MM should stop what they are doing. And that’s fine, I get it. But let’s really look at the real deal here. OP stated she wants an open marriage...can you agree that she has lost that feeling, regardless if her H disagrees with that option?

Listen guys, I totally get your point of view here. But I believe that OP’s marriage has been over for quite a while now. So now she’s into a man that possibly might be into her the same way.

Even if I’m off here, can you agree that maybe there’s a small chance that there could be something real? This doesn’t sound like a fling...it’s been going on for years!!

 

This is the sort of attitude that can make what could otherwise be a friendly enough divorce into one filled with acrimony, and no, you don't "get the point of view", and that's okay, you don't have to. You haven't experienced it.

[Amethyst68]

25 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

Definitely not trying to project or rationalize my own actions. Just playing devils advocate for one sec. Follow me for a moment....can you agree that MM has demonstrated that he really has no “love” for his wife? Also, can you agree that OP is pretty much done with her H?

You see, I know that many here will say that this is all screwed up and OP and MM should stop what they are doing. And that’s fine, I get it. But let’s really look at the real deal here. OP stated she wants an open marriage...can you agree that she has lost that feeling, regardless if her H disagrees with that option?

Listen guys, I totally get your point of view here. But I believe that OP’s marriage has been over for quite a while now. So now she’s into a man that possibly might be into her the same way.

Even if I’m off here, can you agree that maybe there’s a small chance that there could be something real? This doesn’t sound like a fling...it’s been going on for years!!

 

Have you read any of the threads on this board? There are numerous posts from OW/MW (or indeed men although there are less who post,) who get tossed to the side after a DDay even after after affairs lasting 5, 10 years or more. It's not always about love, it's sometimes about how easy it is, ie it's easier it keep one AP than go and find new ones every so often; or it becomes a habit or any number of reasons.

Even if it is "love" nothing excuses an affair, that is about of the BS plain and simple. If the OP is done with her husband, fine then do the right thing and divorce him, anything else is cruel and and I said abuse.

I do wonder about the OP's timescale, it's quite vague. I suspect if she's honest with herself the true disconnect with her BH cane when she became tangled up with her MM.

[SummerDreams]

1 hour ago, JimmyNorth said:

can you agree that MM has demonstrated that he really has no “love” for his wife?

 No.

On 4/11/2020 at 10:23 AM, MadlyDeeply said:

he can't just stop loving his wife

 

[Bittersweetie]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

I do wonder about the OP's timescale, it's quite vague. I suspect if she's honest with herself the true disconnect with her BH cane when she became tangled up with her MM.

I agree...having an affair tends to muddy the waters in terms of the relationship with the BS, leading many times to a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" situation. Plus there is a lot of rewriting history that happens in a WS mind...not only in current matters, but past matters as well. I know I did it and I see it often here.

Personally I feel Madly needs to take a break from this MM and decide, on her own, how to move forward. If she truly wants to be with this MM, then she needs to start taking honest steps toward that goal. Saying she wants to be with MM but also wants to stay with her husband is not fair to anyone. And how can she possibly try to reconnect with her husband when she is still with MM? If she is going to try to reconnect with the husband, the she needs to give that her full focus for at least a set period of time.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Bittersweetie

[Miss Spider]

The truth is that he probably does love you...in a way...But he has a family and comfortable...and loves them too. Because of that, I highly doubt he is going to leave and tear his whole life asunder for you. It just isn't practical. Not saying it doesn't happen, just very unlikely. Especially when he's still getting it without having to do that. He's likely just tired of the same old thing with his wife and wants some new good good on the side. Some guys are like that. They just get tired of the old lady. Think about it...same body and doubtful it's the same as it used to be...so they step out. But rarely do they leave it seems, unless their marriage/life is BAD and even then most of the time they just make things so that the woman does it

Edited April 16, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Tristian]

After cleaning up a 32 post threadjack I will ask everyone to please address the OP.  That's MadlyDeeply in case you were wondering.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Tristian

[JimmyNorth]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:27 AM, Tristian said:

After cleaning up a 32 post threadjack I will ask everyone to please address the OP.  That's MadlyDeeply in case you were wondering.

Madly, i’m here to answer any questions you may have from my point of view as a certain type of MM.

[MadlyDeeply]

Thank you Tristian and Jimmy. Hope everyone is well.

I have been in regular contact with my mm through texts and calls. We are Just waiting for lockdown to end, so that we can go away together and decide best way forward for everyone involved. 

[ExpatInItaly]

36 minutes ago, MadlyDeeply said:

I have been in regular contact with my mm through texts and calls. We are Just waiting for lockdown to end, so that we can go away together and decide best way forward for everyone involved. 

Madly, out of curiosity, what is your vision of the best way forward for everybody? 

Telling your respective spouses that the marriages are over? Revealing that there is someone else, or simply citing growing apart over time? Sitting your own children down and explaining that mom and dad aren't going to be together anymore? You moving out on your own, or with MM? 

I sincerely wonder how you envision this playing out, if you had your ideal scenario. 

[elaine567]

Well we all know the "ideal scenario" The hurt husband disappears into the woodwork, leaving Madly and her 50+yo lover to play happy families with her kids.
His ex wife and his grown up kids are all on board and everything is hunky dory...
True love triumphs...
BUT that is never going to happen...

[Nats_16]

@JimmyNorth I started a thread this am, you look like you could possibly have some advice for me.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Thank you Tristian and Jimmy. Hope everyone is well.

I have been in regular contact with my mm through texts and calls. We are Just waiting for lockdown to end, so that we can go away together and decide best way forward for everyone involved. 

With all this time on your hands due to the lock down why aren't you guys planning it now?

[Lylalou]

@stillafoolbecause it’s just more delaying tactics.

Madly I wish you all the luck and happiness in the world but you aren’t going to live happily ever after with this man, he won’t change, maybe for a while but he will revert back to being the player he always has been. My counsellor says one woman just isn’t enough for some men and he is typically that type of man.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

I have been in regular contact with my mm through texts and calls. We are Just waiting for lockdown to end, so that we can go away together and decide best way forward for everyone involved. 

I too am very curious as to what you think is the best way forward for everyone. What’s your end game? 

Dare I say it, you risk discovery. How would it feel to suddenly have your options taken away, to have your spouse decide what is best for for everyone.  

Edited April 19, 2020 by BaileyB

[Bittersweetie]

7 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

I have been in regular contact with my mm through texts and calls. We are Just waiting for lockdown to end, so that we can go away together and decide best way forward for everyone involved. 

If this is your choice moving forward, I would ask that you take future actions in an honest and authentic manner. Everyone deserves respect, despite the past. Wouldn't you want to be treated with honesty and respect during a period of change in your life? Grant that honesty and respect to your husband and MM's wife as well. Good luck.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Bittersweetie

[JimmyNorth]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:04 AM, Lylalou said:

@stillafoolbecause it’s just more delaying tactics.

Madly I wish you all the luck and happiness in the world but you aren’t going to live happily ever after with this man, he won’t change, maybe for a while but he will revert back to being the player he always has been. My counsellor says one woman just isn’t enough for some men and he is typically that type of man.

Is he a player? If I missed it somewhere, I apologize in advance, but I didn't think I saw that anywhere. It's quite possible that the MM would not be a "player" with Madly. We have to look at all possibilities here.

Nobody here could 100% be so sure that this MM cannot be a loyal to this OW. We don't know how MM's marriage is or how it was. I understand where everyone is coming from looking at the latest odds of MM's truly being a real loyal lover to the OW...but also remember, we don't get very many successful MM stories here either because they don't post. This forum typically attracts people who have bad issues regarding infidelity, not affairs that resulted in successful relationships.

In regards to the counselor that says one woman just isn’t enough for some men, I would gladly wager that if you give a man the right woman it will be all he'll ever needs.

[Amethyst68]

The OP has repeatedly said the MM is a serial cheat and has been for over 30 years. I don't think calling him a player is too far off the mark!

This is an old man whose habits are deeply engrained it would take years of work for him to become a safe partner for anybody and he would probably need to be on his own to do the work.

The statistics for successful relationships starting from affairs are not high. I don't remember the exact numbers but it's something like just over 75% of them do not last 5 years. The odds are not good to begin with and when one partner is a serial cheat then they are really stacked against them.

BTW these are quite favorable statistics I have actually seen ones quoted somewhere else that were single figure in favour of the APs staying together. Of course some couples do make it, but it's still a low number.