First date - should I pass on her for this?

[MaleIntuition]

21 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

...which I said as "good point" to *someone else* bringing it up. It is as simple as going back and reading where I first joined this discussion. You are like a dog with a bone with this and seem very triggered. You have taken it personally, have made it personal, and can not, even with explanations, let it go. You need to work this issue out on your own.

How nice of you with all them insults. Is this how you always behave?

For the record, I do realise that my point is somewhat hard to understand. And the reason I explained it - twice - are not for you, but for the third party whom might be listening. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, miranda561 said:

There was only one i met where he was hesitant to pay..so i was like lets just split it. I found it pretty unpleasant if im honest. And im 100% on a first time meeting someone (whether unfair or not) the woman would  not be getting the best first  impression anyway. 

And with regards to the op, if he is like that with regards to the first date, what about  the rest of the dates and if it ends up as a relationship. Money is going to be a big issue.

Yes, from what I recall no date was ever actually hesitant to pay...then again, neither was I...I always offered. It was a sincere offer and I was at the ready with cash or my card. Very often, though, the guy wanted to pay just that first time. Again...we're going back in time, and it's not just that this was 20+ years ago, I feel changes may be down to an entirely different type of relating now with the internet. There was an internet back then, obviously, but global use for nearly everything we do (or an application for same) has definitely changed a lot of experiences. So I know it's not just that "women work now" because "women work now" has been a thing for like 60 years.

I feel like we've just moved in general, as a society, away from "there HAVE to be rules for everything." Which in its way is awesome. But in another way it seems to leave some people, and some situations, adrift. 

It also means when a person *does* have a firm rule, like I guess the "if she doesn't offer to pay, move along" thing as a solid rule, that throws yet another monkey wrench in because then what happens to "things have changed, we shouldn't bow down to rules"?

It's all so confusing during what I consider birthing pains of a new world (isn't that poetic?) that all I can tell the OP, for a bottom line, is...Hey, if this is your thing, if it's a firm rule, nothing will convince you otherwise. And who knows, you may be right. But either way, it's a "thing" for you and we all have our "things." So in the future, no need to question it, just do what you feel is right; move along.

I am still curious, what happened, OP? Is this guy still around?

Edited May 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Yes, from what I recall no date was ever actually hesitant to pay...then again, neither was I...I always offered. It was a sincere offer and I was at the ready with cash or my card. Very often, though, the guy wanted to pay just that first time. Again...we're going back in time, and it's not just that this was 20+ years ago, I feel changes may be down to an entirely different type of relating now with the internet. There was an internet back then, obviously, but global use for nearly everything we do (or an application for same) has definitely changed a lot of experiences. So I know it's not just that "women work now" because "women work now" has been a thing for like 60 years.

I feel like we've just moved in general, as a society, away from "there HAVE to be rules for everything." Which in its way is awesome. But in another way it seems to leave some people, and some situations, adrift. 

It also means when a person *does* have a firm rule, like I guess the "if she doesn't offer to pay, move along" thing as a solid rule, that throws yet another monkey wrench in because then what happens to "things have changed, we shouldn't bow down to rules"?

It's all so confusing during what I consider birthing pains of a new world (isn't that poetic?) that all I can tell the OP, for a bottom line, is...Hey, if this is your thing, if it's a firm rule, nothing will convince you otherwise. And who knows, you may be right. But either way, it's a "thing" for you and we all have our "things." So in the future, no need to question it, just do what you feel is right; move along.

I am still curious, what happened, OP? Is this guy still around?

Haven't seen him reply to anything so im guessing hes gone for now 😂🤔

It is true about societal changes taking place but i still think now there are so many more different opinions and views. It just confuses people now. I.e what to do/what not to do.

From what ive read/heard off other women, majority to tend to side more to the man paying for the first date. And if he doesn't they will  not see him again 🤔😂. Its a deal breaker for them. I personally think the first time the guy is taking  the woman out, it is far more chivalrous for him to pay for her too. 

[introverted1]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:00 PM, Shining One said:

My dating experience is largely limited to South Florida.

My condolences.  My dating experience there revealed that women like me -- who happily split dating expenses -- are pretty rare. Lots of entitlement.

On 5/7/2020 at 5:48 PM, nospam99 said:

So let me get this straight. Is a woman insisting on paying half now a 'code' for ''I'm not interested''? Should I not ask her out again if she insists on paying for half? (Not being a fan of 'codes', my personal preference is to ask again and see if she flakes or refuses.)

Go ahead and ask @nospam99.  Women are just as confused about how to handle this situation as men are. Excepting, of course, the ones who suddenly become traditionalists when a dinner check is brought.

Why does anyone go out to dinner on a first date/meet, anyway?

[nospam99]

@introverted asked ''Why does anyone go out to dinner on a first date/meet, anyway? ''

Because I enjoy going out to dinner and the money means nothing. I don't do it alone any more .... BTDT overload. But if I can combine it with a date/meet, that's enough of an 'excuse' to make it happen and I have, so far, enjoyed it every time. Worst thing that happens is one of us doesn't want to continue dating the other. The meal and the conversation were still good.

[simpycurious]

2 hours ago, nospam99 said:

@introverted asked ''Why does anyone go out to dinner on a first date/meet, anyway? ''

Because I enjoy going out to dinner and the money means nothing. I don't do it alone any more .... BTDT overload. But if I can combine it with a date/meet, that's enough of an 'excuse' to make it happen and I have, so far, enjoyed it every time. Worst thing that happens is one of us doesn't want to continue dating the other. The meal and the conversation were still good.

It's JUST DINNER not a marriage proposal.  I agree with NOSPAM, it's nice to go to a cool place, enjoy some good food, some nice conversation and the money means nothing.  It's the experience.  

[introverted1]

 

7 hours ago, nospam99 said:

Because I enjoy going out to dinner and the money means nothing.

 

Gotcha.  For me, it's not about the money but about the fact that I'd like a first meeting to be fairly short.  If we click, then we can have a proper first date.  Maybe I have had more not-so-fun first meetings than you have. 😕

[NomiMalone]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:18 AM, nospam99 said:

So let me get this straight. Is a woman insisting on paying half now a 'code' for ''I'm not interested''? Should I not ask her out again if she insists on paying for half? (Not being a fan of 'codes', my personal preference is to ask again and see if she flakes or refuses.)

On a first date, I’ll make sure I at least get half the bill if I don’t feel I’m interested in him. I don’t expect a guy to buy me a meal or drinks if I don’t intend to see him again. I’ll always bring cash so I can pay half in cash on the spot. I also make sure I drive so I can leave on my own.

So yeah, whether a woman offers to pay half kinda is an indication of her interest (or lack thereof). 

[salparadise]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:40 PM, introverted1 said:

Women are just as confused about how to handle this situation as men are. Excepting, of course, the ones who suddenly become traditionalists when a dinner check is brought.

It's always interesting to see how they handle it though. The slow reach is my absolute favorite. It just doesn't get any more awkward than that, esp if you pretend to not notice and let them follow through.

My experience has been that the smarter and more highly educated a woman is, the less she assumes and expects. They will usually have their card ready so they don't have to dig through the purse, and when I pull mine out they're matching it within a half second. If I try to wave them off, they insist. And after that, we start alternating (but not keeping score).

It doesn't matter what words you cloak it in (traditionalist, etc.), rationally it boils down to whether they have an entitlement mentality based on being female, and they haven't thought it through as to the actual cost of that convenience. 

 

11 minutes ago, NomiMalone said:

I’ll make sure I at least get half the bill if I don’t feel I’m interested in him.

And if you are interested, then it's transactional––a pay to play deal?

[NomiMalone]

You can call it that. On date #2, I’ll pay. I’d go to the bathroom towards the end of the evening and detour to the bar/cashier to pay the bill. I prefer to avoid the awkward “I’ll get it”, “no please let me get it” thing. 

I expect to take turns shouting from then on.

[CaliforniaGirl]

8 minutes ago, NomiMalone said:

You can call it that. On date #2, I’ll pay. I’d go to the bathroom towards the end of the evening and detour to the bar/cashier to pay the bill. I prefer to avoid the awkward “I’ll get it”, “no please let me get it” thing. 

I expect to take turns shouting from then on.

Oh my God, this is brilliant. I literally never thought of this. The whole "no, really, I'd really like to pay..." "No, come on, put that away, you're embarrassing me" thing could get friggin' cringeworthy at times. I never considered cutting a date off at the pass this way. I hear the Mission Impossible theme in my head right now. If I am ever released back into the wild I AM STEALING THIS. 

[miranda561]

17 hours ago, introverted1 said:

 

 

Gotcha.  For me, it's not about the money but about the fact that I'd like a first meeting to be fairly short.  If we click, then we can have a proper first date.  Maybe I have had more not-so-fun first meetings than you have. 😕

Why whats happened on your not-so-fun meetings. The women wern't  bombshells as expected? 😂

[miranda561]

12 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Oh my God, this is brilliant. I literally never thought of this. The whole "no, really, I'd really like to pay..." "No, come on, put that away, you're embarrassing me" thing could get friggin' cringeworthy at times. I never considered cutting a date off at the pass this way. I hear the Mission Impossible theme in my head right now. If I am ever released back into the wild I AM STEALING THIS. 

Never had to deal with that. Theyve just paid 😂. First time that is.

But when i pay later on for both of us..don't even get a thanks 😂..just silence.😐. 

[NomiMalone]

24 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Oh my God, this is brilliant. I literally never thought of this. The whole "no, really, I'd really like to pay..." "No, come on, put that away, you're embarrassing me" thing could get friggin' cringeworthy at times. I never considered cutting a date off at the pass this way. I hear the Mission Impossible theme in my head right now. If I am ever released back into the wild I AM STEALING THIS. 

Lol I do this (the sneaky “bathroom” trip) a lot when I’m eating out with my mum, she’s an avid “arguer” when it comes to getting the bill, even on her own birthday! 

Edited May 10, 2020 by NomiMalone

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

It's always interesting to see how they handle it though. The slow reach is my absolute favorite. It just doesn't get any more awkward than that, esp if you pretend to not notice and let them follow through.

My experience has been that the smarter and more highly educated a woman is, the less she assumes and expects. They will usually have their card ready so they don't have to dig through the purse, and when I pull mine out they're matching it within a half second. If I try to wave them off, they insist. And after that, we start alternating (but not keeping score).

It doesn't matter what words you cloak it in (traditionalist, etc.), rationally it boils down to whether they have an entitlement mentality based on being female, and they haven't thought it through as to the actual cost of that convenience. 

 

And if you are interested, then it's transactional––a pay to play deal?

I've had guys actually complain how i don,'t pay for them...😂 safe to say i stopped seeing any one of those

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

I've had guys actually complain how i don,'t pay for them...😂 safe to say i stopped seeing any one of those

Wait, you mean you were seeing one another, like an ongoing thing? Don't you just start pretty much switching on and off? Unless I'm misunderstanding you. 

[miranda561]

10 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Wait, you mean you were seeing one another, like an ongoing thing? Don't you just start pretty much switching on and off? Unless I'm misunderstanding you. 

No it was still the beginning, hadn't got to the "seeing stage".. first time was one drink.. i think like two times max..by the end of second  he started complaining. 

The other just always kept trying to get me to pay for him as well even though i was just happy to split the bill. 🤔😳. He barely paid for me..couple times at most. That guy was a narcissist though. Pretty sure

Edited May 10, 2020 by miranda561

[simpycurious]

2 hours ago, miranda561 said:

I've had guys actually complain how i don,'t pay for them...😂 safe to say i stopped seeing any one of those

Being cheap is never a pretty trait to possess.

[introverted1]

4 hours ago, miranda561 said:

Why whats happened on your not-so-fun meetings. The women wern't  bombshells as expected? 😂

Well, I am a woman and I date men, so...  nope, that wasn't the issue.

[introverted1]

5 hours ago, salparadise said:

 And after that, we start alternating (but not keeping score).
 

This is my preference, too, after the first couple of dates.  Before that, I like to split things, unless the guy is clearly going to be upset if he can't pay. And yeah, those guys exist. That's another reason for keeping the initial meet-and-greet small and short -- it keeps both time and cost down.

[miranda561]

46 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Well, I am a woman and I date men, so...  nope, that wasn't the issue.

I wasnt sure. After i typed that out. But out of curiosity, why were they not fun

[MimiCupid82]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:27 AM, JS84 said:

Actually I've been single for years. I'm pretty jaded towards relationships in general at this point in my life (age 35). I've actually had to turn down about 4 women in the past couple of years who were interested just because I don't even feel like bothering anymore. My last girlfriend is married with a couple of kids now. My level of trust is down to damn near nothing when it comes to relationships and the opposite sex. The only women I trust are my mother and my grandmothers and unfortunately my grandmothers are dead. I plan on being single for some time if not for a long time. I do pretty well on my own and my social life is very stress free with little to no drama.

And to be honest I don't really care about the free meal thing too much myself. When I was dating and I took a woman out to a restaurant at the end of the day I'd be out what? $25 or $30??? Not a huge deal to me personally. It's not like I was dating left and right anyway. And I know the vast majority of women aren't looking for a free meal, but I don't think it's as uncommon as a lot of people like to portray. Especially women who aren't in the best financial position. But again, not exactly a felony as far as I'm concerned.

But the sheer amount of men out there complaining about spending money on dates that lead to nowhere is tired. As far as I'm concerned it's their own fault spending money they apparently don't want to lose on women they barely know or who most likely aren't even interested or won't be in the end anyway. Maybe it's different since I live in Chicago, you have a lot of options outside of restaurants so my perspective is a bit different in that regard.

Back when I did date though I thought I did pretty good. It was rare to go out with a woman and not really hear from her again. 

Turning down 4 women!!!......That's pretty interesting coming from a guy. You must be an AMAZING person to have had multiple women actively pursue you!! I'm curious to know what happed to all those women??  Where you even attracted or interested in any one of them??? Looking back do you regret turning them down? Do you still talk to them at least? What's the story? I don't think I've ever heard of a man turning down multiple women. Sorry no offense!!!!

I met a guy online about 8 months ago who turned me down after ONE date, but then texted me 2 months later asking if I was still available for another date. I guess he realized what he was missing. Needless to say Ignored his requests. 

[poppyfields]

7 hours ago, salparadise said:

It doesn't matter what words you cloak it in (traditionalist, etc.), rationally it boils down to whether they have an entitlement mentality based on being female, and they haven't thought it through as to the actual cost of that convenience. 

You know what?  Perhaps it IS entitlement of sorts, based in part on past conditioning, demographics, what you were raised to believe, what "society" has taught us or any other number of reasons.

So what?  Men have their own entitlement issues too, don't they?

Many men believe if he has been taking a woman out and she's interested, he is entitled to sex on or before the third date, and if he doesn't get what he feels he is entitled to as a man, he will assume lack of interest and dump her! 

Even when SHE pays. 

I've read posts from men attesting to this, so what's the difference?  

Edited May 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[MimiCupid82]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

You know what?  Perhaps it IS entitlement of sorts, based on past conditioning, demographics, what you were raised to believe and what "society" deems appropriate.

So what?  Men have their own entitlement issues too, don't they?

Many men believe if a woman is interested, he is entitled to sex on or before the third date, and if he doesn't get what he feels he is entitled to as a man, he will dump her!  Even when SHE pays. 

I've read posts from men attesting to this, so what's the difference?  

I agree, I unfortunately fell victim to that when I was fresh into dating and when I didn't give into their "requests" I never heard from them again. 

[JS84]

45 minutes ago, MimiCupid82 said:

Turning down 4 women!!!......That's pretty interesting coming from a guy. You must be an AMAZING person to have had multiple women actively pursue you!! I'm curious to know what happed to all those women??  Where you even attracted or interested in any one of them??? Looking back do you regret turning them down? Do you still talk to them at least? What's the story? I don't think I've ever heard of a man turning down multiple women. Sorry no offense!!!!

I met a guy online about 8 months ago who turned me down after ONE date, but then texted me 2 months later asking if I was still available for another date. I guess he realized what he was missing. Needless to say Ignored his requests. 

They were women through work. Mostly nurses. lol I'm not that great at all and I consider it kind of a fluke occurrence. I rarely get much attention. I consider myself an average guy and if I'm being honest kind of on the boring side.

I don't regret it and I still talk to one through text occasionally as I'm not currently working through any of them. She was the one who was most direct and showed the most interest. Do I regret it now? No. Will I someday? It's possible and wouldn't surprise me. I'm 35 so still feel like I have plenty of time to find someone if I choose. That being said, I remember turning 30 like it was the other day. Time does tend to fly the older you get. And no I wasn't really attracted to any of them but they were all nice. I'm just not very trusting and don't think I should be in a relationship at this point in time even if I wanted to. Still I could see myself looking back on my life and missed opportunities and having regrets. Just not there yet.

Ya you were right to ignore that guy lol.