some_username1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, zawadi16 said: I think it speaks more about a person for completely writing someone off for not offering to pay when they’ve said thank you after only one time, than it does for not paying. It’s extremely judgmental and overly critical. Perhaps it does but there is no one size fits all approach to dating. Yes I would judge a person for not offering to pay because that, to me, suggests they are cheap. Why even bring your purse or your handbag if you don’t intend paying for anything? Might as well leave all that at home and make it clear from the outset that you expect the man to pay. So yeah, I would then pick up the tab, as I have done many times, but I would write her off as a dating prospect and look for someone in line with my values. And that’s it really, I have my values, she has hers. But it’s as well to add that I pre-screen my dates before we go for dinner. I’ll go for drinks on the first date and if they leave me to pay for everything then I know it’s not worth paying for dinner for her because she expects to be paid for. A woman who thinks nothing of buying a round of drinks on a first date will get no end of generosity from me in return. A woman who turns up and expects to be paid for.....ugh. Edited March 13, 2020 by some_username1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Leojax Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: She doesn't know you at all PERIOD. How many times have we heard people say "oh, my goodness, he didn't seem like he was the type of guy who could/would (fill in the blank) . . . " Either way I still didn’t ask if she was dumb. Link to post Share on other sites
zawadi16 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, some_username1 said: Perhaps it does but there is no one size fits all approach to dating. Yes I would judge a person for not offering to pay because that, to me, suggests they are cheap. Why even bring your purse or your handbag if you don’t intend paying for anything? Might as well leave all that at home and make it clear from the outset that you expect the man to pay. So yeah, I would then pick up the tab, as I have done many times, but I would write her off as a dating prospect and look for someone in line with my values. And that’s it really, I have my values, she has hers. But it’s as well to add that I pre-screen my dates before we go for dinner. I’ll go for drinks on the first date and if they leave me to pay for everything then I know it’s not worth paying for dinner for her because she expects to be paid for. A woman who thinks nothing of buying a round of drinks on a first date will get no end of generosity from me in return. A woman who turns up and expects to be paid for.....ugh. I have had let men pay for me then... *gasp* I paid the next time we went out. so you prematurely wrote someone off before giving someone a chance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, zawadi16 said: I have had let men pay for me then... *gasp* I paid the next time we went out. so you prematurely wrote someone off before giving someone a chance. Not really because their attitude towards paying for dates cuts to the core of who they are and their values. I have no interest in dating anyone who expects me to foot the bill for the first date because who knows how far that extends to their attitude in relationships? It’s one of the most clear cut compatibility tests there is, for me, at least. So in some ways not paying on the first date saves me and them valuable time. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 The "problem" with dating in 2020 is that "dinner" for some is an obligatory first date and for a guy paying for multiple women, women who are basically strangers it is just too much. Many men just cannot afford it. They are content to play the field, but do not want the expense of it all Bitterness creeps in and the whole "dinner" situation becomes a source of resentment. They want to show off and be the impressive man, but in reality they would rather she pay at least half, but that spoils the effect he wanted to create. She sees him as cheap and he gets even more bitter when she bins him. Of course many women want providers and "dinner" can be a test. A man who cannot provide is for some a waste of time, no matter what her earning capacity may be. With OLD the numbers are too great for most average men to pass that test without spending a fortune on women they either don't know, women who then disappear or women they don't care to see again. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
zawadi16 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: The "problem" with dating in 2020 is that "dinner" for some is an obligatory first date and for a guy paying for multiple women, women who are basically strangers it is just too much. Many men just cannot afford it. They are content to play the field, but do not want the expense of it all Bitterness creeps in and the whole "dinner" situation becomes a source of resentment. They want to show off and be the impressive man, but in reality they would rather she pay at least half, but that spoils the effect he wanted to create. She sees him as cheap and he gets even more bitter when she bins him. Of course many women want providers and "dinner" can be a test. A man who cannot provide is for some a waste of time, no matter what her earning capacity may be. With OLD the numbers are too great for most average men to pass that test without spending a fortune on women they either don't know, women who then disappear or women they don't care to see again. Well then that’s his problem. Instead of dinner he should suggest the zoo, coffee, museum, etc. , to save money. It’s not the woman’s fault that he’s going out on multiple dates. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, zawadi16 said: Well then that’s his problem. Instead of dinner he should suggest the zoo, coffee, museum, etc. , to save money. It’s not the woman’s fault that he’s going out on multiple dates. Yes of course but he may not get the kudos he wants for doing that... "Lets go out for dinner..." is magnanimous and so macho. BUT sulking when she isn't paying half is not so awesome... Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 I don't consider any man "feminized" because he wonders if/when a woman is going to be the equal partner and show him reciprocation. Now, if 'their' lipstick matched 'their' blouse ... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 46 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Yes of course but he may not get the kudos he wants for doing that... "Lets go out for dinner..." is magnanimous and so macho. BUT sulking when she isn't paying half is not so awesome... Agreed. If you expect her to offer it is not magnanimous, its a test. If your macho you;d be insulted she even did the fake grab. Sometimes peoples s**t tests come back to bite them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 "Macho?" Haven't heard that adjective since my disco days. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
introverted1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, zawadi16 said: I have had let men pay for me then... *gasp* I paid the next time we went out. The only time this is legit is when 1) You know there will be a next time; AND 2) You've offered to pay and then, when the offer is declined, you say "I'll get it next time, then." Edited March 13, 2020 by introverted1 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 hour ago, some_username1 said: Not really because their attitude towards paying for dates cuts to the core of who they are and their values. I have no interest in dating anyone who expects me to foot the bill for the first date because who knows how far that extends to their attitude in relationships? It’s one of the most clear cut compatibility tests there is, for me, at least. So in some ways not paying on the first date saves me and them valuable time. Have to completely disagree it is such a clear cut test or goes to the core of a person. At least for me (and her) the cost of such drinks and dinner is pretty low. If I'm dating so many women can't afford it then that is my problem for seeing too many or choosing too expensive a place. So to use it as a "test" seems kind of petty to me. Certainly those with an entitled mind set will expect you to pay for the first date (of course the really savvy ones may fake grab)....does not follow that those who fail to offer to pay the first date (or fake grab) are entitled. On the later point have plenty of experience with those who didn't make a fake grab or offer to pay on first date being very giving women. Of course I use other filters, indications of her being judgmental and petty and far bigger red flags to me than the absence of the fake grab. Will agree it may work for you...just like women who next guys who ask them to pay. Two sides of the same coin? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 I've dated plenty of broke men. We simply didn't go out to places he can't afford. You can't invite some woman to a place you can't afford and expect her to pay, and if you're multidating, that's not her problem. If you are too cheap to buy dinner, then invite her to walk around the park or whatever instead. If you're not broke and you're not picking up the tab when YOU plan a date, then you're just cheap and entitled. No woman wants that. Again, dated plenty of broke guys. They didn't take me to an expensive restaurant and then wait for ME to pick up the tab. Women still make less than men and one thing that will not change is that women who plan on having a baby will need to know they have a man who can provide some financial stability during that time, so it's not for nothing. Of course, if all you're wanting is sex from a woman and she's looking for a father for her future kids, then you might be better off just hiring prostitutes anyway. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Backinthesaddleagain Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 This thread is ridiculous. Be chivalrous and pay for the first date. If you can't afford it or it's a big deal, wait until you have more money before trying to court a woman. If you continue to see her and she never pays or even offers, then I would cut bait as it shows entitlement and lack of good character. Good luck! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SunnySide0418 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Mystery4u said: OP you must not have a lot of experience with women. They like to feel like a princess, that they are being looked after, cared for. That means paying for the meal, especially if it's the first date! No point debating the rights and wrongs as that's just how it is. Men are the leaders, taking care of their female. In return they get a massive amount of love and loyalty. I'm happy with that. Finally!! A REAL man who gets it!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Have to completely disagree it is such a clear cut test or goes to the core of a person. At least for me (and her) the cost of such drinks and dinner is pretty low. If I'm dating so many women can't afford it then that is my problem for seeing too many or choosing too expensive a place. So to use it as a "test" seems kind of petty to me. Certainly those with an entitled mind set will expect you to pay for the first date (of course the really savvy ones may fake grab)....does not follow that those who fail to offer to pay the first date (or fake grab) are entitled. On the later point have plenty of experience with those who didn't make a fake grab or offer to pay on first date being very giving women. Of course I use other filters, indications of her being judgmental and petty and far bigger red flags to me than the absence of the fake grab. Will agree it may work for you...just like women who next guys who ask them to pay. Two sides of the same coin? It doesn’t always work, you are right. One of my worst dating experiences was this very well off girl earning many times my wage. First date was drinks and she paid her share. She said to me at the end of the first date “I think you are funny, handsome and intelligent, you should take me for dinner on the second date”. As I’ve already said, I’m happy to pay for dinner if the girl pays her way on the first date so the flattery was neither here nor there. So I took her for an expensive meal. We ended up going for a meal on the 3rd date and I paid again. We then went for food on the 4th date and she made a pathetic attempt to go for her purse, fumbling all over the place. I put my card down in seconds. After that date she ghosted me :shrug: So however much someone earns or whether they pay or not on the first date doesn’t tell me a great deal, but the mere assumption that I will pay is, for me, a turn off and when you are turned off you don’t want a second date so it largely works. But as per the above there will always be takers like that who sneak through no matter what you do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, some_username1 said: It doesn’t always work, you are right. One of my worst dating experiences was this very well off girl earning many times my wage. First date was drinks and she paid her share. She said to me at the end of the first date “I think you are funny, handsome and intelligent, you should take me for dinner on the second date”. As I’ve already said, I’m happy to pay for dinner if the girl pays her way on the first date so the flattery was neither here nor there. So I took her for an expensive meal. We ended up going for a meal on the 3rd date and I paid again. We then went for food on the 4th date and she made a pathetic attempt to go for her purse, fumbling all over the place. I put my card down in seconds. After that date she ghosted me :shrug: So however much someone earns or whether they pay or not on the first date doesn’t tell me a great deal, but the mere assumption that I will pay is, for me, a turn off and when you are turned off you don’t want a second date so it largely works. But as per the above there will always be takers like that who sneak through no matter what you do. Well, sorry for your experiene, Some_username. Unfortunately your experience isn't unique and this gal, for one understands that there are plenty of user/goldigging daters out there that will just see you for the meals you provide. I don't blame men at all if they judge a woman who doesn't pay on the first meet. If there is a first date, then yes it is nice if the man pays, just as nice when the woman at the very least offers to pay for dessert or an after meal dessert wine or something. Like I said, its not 1945 anymore where jobs were for the men and women were the "Domestic Goddess." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Backinthesaddleagain said: This thread is ridiculous. Be chivalrous and pay for the first date. If you can't afford it or it's a big deal, wait until you have more money before trying to court a woman. If you continue to see her and she never pays or even offers, then I would cut bait as it shows entitlement and lack of good character. Good luck! Ehhh not really. I’ve been surprised the last two girls I’ve dated were more about getting emotional fulfilment than a guy displaying that he could provide through his cash reserves. That’s what it’s all about, filtering by the man and by the woman, there are women out there who don’t care about dinners and being paid for just as there are women who see being wined and dined as all part of the “pay to play” aspect of dating. It’s just about both parties filtering until they find what they are looking for so no matter how much money you have you shouldn’t stop trying to find the...err....lid to your pot, so to speak. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Beendaredonedat said: Well, sorry for your experiene, Some_username. Unfortunately your experience isn't unique and this gal, for one understands that there are plenty of user/goldigging daters out there that will just see you for the meals you provide. I don't blame men at all if they judge a woman who doesn't pay on the first meet. If there is a first date, then yes it is nice if the man pays, just as nice when the woman at the very least offers to pay for dessert or an after meal dessert wine or something. Like I said, its not 1945 anymore where jobs were for the men and women were the "Domestic Goddess." Exactly! If we want to stick to traditional values and men are expected to pay for dates then fine, let.’s pay men more money per hour to account for the ‘date tax’, but you try floating that idea in this day and age Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) The other irony is that so many men, no matter what age, are trying to date women in their 20s, and those women cannot be expected to have money for anything other than necessities. Certainly all college kids are pretty much broke because they're not working. All women just starting their careers are usually stuck in low paying positions, and sometimes that never changes either. I guess if you want a woman for whom money is no object, better stick to dating mature established professionals like doctors and attorneys. Although their standards are probably going to be that they want an equal or better. During the time that I was dating the most, I had been making decent money in another state but had to start all over in the new town and was making minimum wage trying to get a toehold there, and it was 3 years before I started making anything more. During that time, I dated more than any other time, and guys would ask me to go to lunch or dinner and I couldn't afford anything except beans and bologna, so I would just tell them, I can't afford it. Sometimes they would treat me, but at least one of them wasn't making much more money than I was, so we just didn't go. We hung out. And that's fine. But I had been living a much better standard of life previous to my move, and I had every intention of getting back to it, and did. Though I never did make probably half of what my male counterparts made. If some guy had waited for me to pick up the check, they'd have waited an awfully long time, because I didn't HAVE any money. And a lot of women don't. Edited March 13, 2020 by preraph 1 Link to post Share on other sites
zawadi16 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, some_username1 said: It doesn’t always work, you are right. One of my worst dating experiences was this very well off girl earning many times my wage. First date was drinks and she paid her share. She said to me at the end of the first date “I think you are funny, handsome and intelligent, you should take me for dinner on the second date”. As I’ve already said, I’m happy to pay for dinner if the girl pays her way on the first date so the flattery was neither here nor there. So I took her for an expensive meal. We ended up going for a meal on the 3rd date and I paid again. We then went for food on the 4th date and she made a pathetic attempt to go for her purse, fumbling all over the place. I put my card down in seconds. After that date she ghosted me :shrug: So however much someone earns or whether they pay or not on the first date doesn’t tell me a great deal, but the mere assumption that I will pay is, for me, a turn off and when you are turned off you don’t want a second date so it largely works. But as per the above there will always be takers like that who sneak through no matter what you do. So if she didn’t offer to pay the first time, you were turned off, she said thank you for the evening and then asked she could take you to get dinner, drinks, whatever, the next time then how would feel about/view her then? Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, some_username1 said: It’s just about both parties filtering until they find what they are looking for so no matter how much money you have you shouldn’t stop trying to find the...err....lid to your pot, so to speak. Haha! My mom always used to say "every pot has a lid" regarding finding the right Life Partner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, some_username1 said: Exactly! If we want to stick to traditional values and men are expected to pay for dates then fine, let.’s pay men more money per hour to account for the ‘date tax’, but you try floating that idea in this day and age Oh my, no. It's well known that woman are still being paid less then men who do the same job but I'll pretend I didn't read what you just said. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, zawadi16 said: So if she didn’t offer to pay the first time, you were turned off, she said thank you for the evening and then asked she could take you to get dinner, drinks, whatever, the next time then how would feel about/view her then? Honestly, when I think about it I can only think of one time in all my many years of dating experience where a girl said to me “I’ll take you out and I’m paying” and that was for a 4th date where I had paid for an expensive meal on the second. It was very nice of her to do that and showed an altruism I have rarely seen. She was also a master manipulator though so I’m not sure just how altruistic it really was So it’s a hard question to answer because I haven’t been in the situation where a girl I barely know has offered to pay for a second date. Maybe that might make up for not contributing on the first, but I’m pretty sure I could live to a 100 and I will never experience a woman who let me pay for the first date say “I’M taking YOU out for date 2” Link to post Share on other sites
Backinthesaddleagain Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, Beendaredonedat said: Oh my, no. It's well known that woman are still being paid less then men who do the same job but I'll pretend I didn't read what you just said. Lmao. This same old nonsense about women being paid less than men. Most women expect to be protected and safe by men. Men cant give women this safe and protected feeling if they dont have the money. Also, in any disaster situation, women and children get priority over men. Also also, women live longer than men so they have more earning time than men. Also also also, men typically are involved with more dangerous and risky professions. I think women shouldn't be treated unfairly by any means whatsoever, but bottom line is that we are indeed not always equal. There, I said it! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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