princessaurora Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 2 hours ago, SummerDreams said: Isn't a man asking a woman on a date and actually going to this date (and more dates after it) enough validation that he desires her? For me first dates are not to see whether we desire each other sexually because sex is not gonna happen unless we are compatible as people, have similar values, can have good conversations and have fun with each other's company. So no, in the first like 10 dates I am not worried if he desires me sexually. Obviously, he is there and he continues to ask or accept dates so he has a sexual desire for me, he is not gonna go to dates with a woman he sees as a friend. So I find it a little funny and bizarre that women in the first or second date without the guy making some move will feel insecure that he may not desire them sexually. Then wtf is he doing there on a date with you? Guys can have a myriad of reasons to continue to date a woman he is not sexually attracted to. Maybe he's bored, lonely, hoping attraction will grow, feels pressured by his family/friends, the list goes on. We have numerous posts here about people of both sexes going out on multiple dates with someone and them not showing any interest.yet they continue to accept or initiate dates. In most cases one of them eventually ghosts them. Just because a man finds a woman sexually desirable. doesnt mean he expects to have sex with her that night or the next. It just means there is potential for a future where two consenting adults will probably eventually have sex. And he doesnt even have to do much to get that point across. You can often tell just by the way he kisses you if he finds you desirable and what woman wants a man who doesnt find her sexy? I know I sure don't. 3 1
Miss Spider Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SummerDreams said: Isn't a man asking a woman on a date and actually going to this date (and more dates after it) enough validation that he desires her? For me first dates are not to see whether we desire each other sexually because sex is not gonna happen unless we are compatible as people, have similar values, can have good conversations and have fun with each other's company. So no, in the first like 10 dates I am not worried if he desires me sexually. Obviously, he is there and he continues to ask or accept dates so he has a sexual desire for me, he is not gonna go to dates with a woman he sees as a friend. So I find it a little funny and bizarre that women in the first or second date without the guy making some move will feel insecure that he may not desire them sexually. Then wtf is he doing there on a date with you? There was a thread posted here a couple days ago where the man didn’t show any sexual interest in the woman for 11 dates. She was making all the sexual moves, but he was enthusiastically going on dates. They ended up having sex and he told her there was no spark I can think of quite a few reasons a guy would continue to go on dates with a woman without feeling super sexually attracted. Desperation and boredom to name a couple. Edited March 8, 2020 by Cookiesandough 2
NuevoYorko Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 1 hour ago, SummerDreams said: These two sentences here contradict one another and it shows the real gap between men and women. A woman who genuinelly wants to meet a guy before having sex with him will never consider going on a date with the possibility she may have sex with him. One generally has to meet a person before having sex with them. Seriously though, I think you underestimate women, or else you're generalizing too much. Plenty of women are comfortable with more spontaneity than you give them credit for. No different from lots of men, they will have sex if they feel like it at the time, whether they're looking at the man as a relationship partner or not. Also, I hate to say this, but more than one woman has gone on a date not considering the possibility of sex, but end up having sex because the guy is a good seducer. And ... speaking from the perspective of a man with some relationship experience under my belt - if I want to have a woman's heart, yes in deed, I will put in the effort to do what I can to win it. 1
basil67 Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, SummerDreams said: Isn't a man asking a woman on a date and actually going to this date (and more dates after it) enough validation that he desires her? No, not necessarily....especially if she's from OLD. He could well be there to see if he might desire her. Quote So I find it a little funny and bizarre that women in the first or second date without the guy making some move will feel insecure that he may not desire them sexually. Then wtf is he doing there on a date with you? Perhaps he can't get anything better? Perhaps he's the kind of guy who doesn't put in much effort and is happy to settle for any woman who spends time with him? As @princessaurora said, he might be lonely or being pressured by family to date. Life isn't as black and white as you believe. Edited March 8, 2020 by basil67 2 1
basil67 Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Woggle said: I never said anything about tricking women. It was your term 'playing' which led me to believe this is what you meant. The term is used very liberally around here when describing people who are not honest about their intentions.
Woggle Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, basil67 said: It was your term 'playing' which led me to believe this is what you meant. The term is used very liberally around here when describing people who are not honest about their intentions. That is not what I mean by playing. I meant playing the field. 1
Gr8fuln2020 Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 Every time I go back and look at the title of this thread, "Why don't men try to win your heart first?," I cannot help wonder why such a broad and subjective question is being asked. I am certain that at any given time, especially women, ask this question if things are moving too fast for them with that particular guy. But is the same question asked if the guy is a total knock-out and hot and seems to have everything the lady wants and desires? Do these same ladies (person) jump in the sack the first chance they get or perhaps go just beyond the first date and then have intimate relations? When we are disgruntled we tend to complain about events that, under other circumstances, would have been 'just right' or 'exciting.' Why don't men try to win YOUR heart first or why didn't the last guy that I dated that I wasn't absolutely goo-goo-gaa-gaa over try to win my heart over first? Win what over exactly? Your heart? As in, fall in love? Or just like a lot? Or.... 1
thecrucible Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 I’m actually getting freaked out now because while my numbers are now in double figures, I’ve actually lost all interest in anything other than the real deal. I didn’t used to be so afraid of the unknown but now I want to have more guarantee before getting sexually involved with a guy. Unfortunately that’s not possible though. I don’t know if OP feels this way or if anyone else does?
Gaeta Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 3:43 PM, Hopeful30 said: to wait at least a few weeks before reaching for my hand, my mouth or my ass. If you make a man wait 'weeksss' only to kiss you or hold your hand he's going to think you have some serious sex hang-ups and he's not gonna be willing to 'bet' weeksss on you to figure it out. I think 3-4 dates is plenty of wait for a kiss. Men are wired the way they are, they need physical touch to ignite love. If you want to hold on going to bed with him then ok, make it known but if you make a man wait 8 weeks for a kiss, I guarantee you by 5th date the guy will be long gone. 7
Gaeta Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 3:43 PM, Hopeful30 said: who understands my worthiness We are all worthy, we are all human of equal value. You speak of your worthyness as if you were a piece of estate, or a collectible porcelaine doll. Why is your worthiness based on the number of weeks you make a man wait? Shouldn't your worthiness be based on your qualities, your generosity, sensitivity, empathy? You have to stop viewing your body as something you trade for a relationship, or something you give, or give up to someone. Sex is a natural act, it's not dirty, it's not lowering your value on the market. If you can date a man for weekssssss and not desire his kisses, not desire his touch, then I'd say your problem is not one of finding a respectable man, your problem is a low libido. 7 1
SummerDreams Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 12 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: I can think of quite a few reasons a guy would continue to go on dates with a woman without feeling super sexually attracted. Desperation and boredom to name a couple. Ok if this is the case, then this man is not suitable for this woman, why are we even talking about it? Also, a man who will be allowed sexual touches and moves, may continue to go on dates just for them, even though the woman is not the most attractive woman for him. I mean, what you are saying is not an argument for women allowing sexual moves from guys early on. The same way a guy will just go to a date with a woman he is not that interested in and who is not allowed to make a sexual move on out of boredom or despiration, the same way he will go on dates with a woman he is not that interested in and who is allowed to make sexual moves on out of boredom or despiration. The second example gives him even more reason to go to that date. The problem here is not sexual moves or not, the problem is, he is not interested in her. So why doesn't she see it and she keeps going out with him? I don't want to brag but I like to think I'm a good judge of characters, I would realize really soon that this man on a date is not interested enough and he's there cause he has nothing better to do so I would reject him. I wouldn't want to waste time on mediocre situations.
SummerDreams Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 10 hours ago, NuevoYorko said: Plenty of women are comfortable with more spontaneity than you give them credit for. No different from lots of men, they will have sex if they feel like it at the time, whether they're looking at the man as a relationship partner or not. Also, I hate to say this, but more than one woman has gone on a date not considering the possibility of sex, but end up having sex because the guy is a good seducer. Yes of course. But it's this type of women who regret the next day because they realize they came off as easy and this really nice guy who had a potential may never take them seriously after they slept with him 3 hours or so after they met them. Every action (even spontaneous actions) has consequences. 1
SummerDreams Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Gr8fuln2020 said: But is the same question asked if the guy is a total knock-out and hot and seems to have everything the lady wants and desires? Lets be real; how many SINGLE men who are a) total knock-out and hot AND b) seem to have everything a lady wants, are there in the dating scene? I bet that these men are just taken or married. What you are describing is so rare that we don't even have to waste any time adding it to the statistics. What you want to say though is that women want to seem they are deep and they want the emotional connections but in fact they are just superficial like men who will jump on this type of guy after 5 minutes they meet him and have wild sex with him. It's a good effort to belittle serious women and create an "aha" argument, but as I said, this story will happen once out of one million times or something so no, it won't be a good enough example to make women look superficial. 2
SummerDreams Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Gaeta said: If you make a man wait 'weeksss' only to kiss you or hold your hand he's going to think you have some serious sex hang-ups and he's not gonna be willing to 'bet' weeksss on you to figure it out Thank God, he will show early how superficial he is. Aren't you happy for her? She will have dodged a bullet. Edited March 9, 2020 by SummerDreams
manfrombelow2 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: Thank God, he will show early how superficial he is. Aren't you happy for her? She will have dodged a bullet. The point is, when a woman deliberately makes a man wait "WEEKS" just to have some physical contact with her, it means only one thing: She's not sexually & romantically interested in him. So what's the point of chasing after someone who has no sexual & romantic interest in you, while you can invest all those energies, time and money onto someone else? For me, when a woman makes me waits that long just for a kiss, I would automatically know that: 1- I failed, miserably, at seducing her PROPERLY as a man. I failed to make her like me romantically & sexually. 2- She is simply not sexually & romantically interested in me. So I'd take the experience as a lesson learned, delete her number, and move on to other women. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: Thank God, he will show early how superficial he is. Aren't you happy for her? She will have dodged a bullet. No...I think you have it backwards...he is likely the one who would dodge a bullet... Heck,. I have had female clients actually initiate a hug/ kiss with me after one business transaction, let alone date(of course not something considered romantic), but the point is they had zero issue with tactile show of affection...zero.... Most "normal" guys will patiently wait for a woman to get to the point of being comfortable enough with sex and most guys understand how women are in control of this aspect, for the most part......Its understandable as they are in an obvious position of vulnerability...But the aspect of numerous dates without a hand hold, simple kiss or hug? Most guys will see that as either a woman is only interested in a buddy or companion or has some sort of hang up....Both would be considered red flags... Lets not lose sight of the goal here....If the goal is to meet a man who is considered "good" and normal, I think a woman needs to let herself go a bit....You cant be so drawn in that it winds up running good men off because they don't understand the situation or they feel like they are entering a relationship with a woman that has all kinds of walls built up...This is supposed to be fun as well...Lets not lose sight of that fact either.. TF Y Edited March 9, 2020 by thefooloftheyear 3
SummerDreams Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, thaygiaogiang said: The point is, when a woman deliberately makes a man wait "WEEKS" just to have some physical contact with her, it means only one thing: She's not sexually & romantically interested in him. The only way a woman can show a romantic interest towards a man is sexual? What if she looks deep into his eyes? What if she caresses his cheek? What if she tells him she enjoys their conversation? What if she talks to him in a sweet way? So you are all saying that men in the past centuries throughout humanity who would not have sex with a woman or anything sexual with her did not love her. This is what you are claiming; that without any sexual move, a man can't have feelings for a woman. We know from poems, books, stories in general from the past though that a man could love a woman after seeing her or talking to her once; he could be in a war zone writing love letters to her, looking at her photo; he would love a woman being far away from her for other reasons like she is not allowed to marry him or she is married with another man. And so many stories. The need of men to have sex with a woman in order to truly love her is something that I see being said only in the last decades. History shows us otherwise. I want to make clear that I have no problem whatsoever with men and women who have sex early, it's their life and they can of course do whatever they want. I'm not trying to convince people to do what I want. I'm just saying my opinion on the matter knowing very well that I'm a conservative type of person. 5
Shining One Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: The only way a woman can show a romantic interest towards a man is sexual? What if she looks deep into his eyes? What if she caresses his cheek? What if she tells him she enjoys their conversation? What if she talks to him in a sweet way? I fell for all of those tricks in my younger days. I no longer consider them signs of romantic and sexual interest. All they mean is that the woman in question wants something from me.
Woggle Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Looking into his eyes and caressing his cheek are all good things but if a man doesn't make a woman hot in a sexual way he will end up being the settle guy which is the worst position a man can be in when it comes to relationships. The woman who has a man who treats her like gold but she just isn't attracted to is a cliche at this point. I truly do believe a man can be relationship material and also get her hot but if a man has to choose between being the settle guy and being the player who gets her hot any man who isn't a masochist would choose the latter. 1
SummerDreams Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Ok then, if people want to base their relationship on sex, sure, I have nothing more to say. If good men nowadays are called settle guys, then maybe I'm born in a wrong era cause I feel very disappointed with this. 3
Gaeta Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SummerDreams said: Thank God, he will show early how superficial he is. Aren't you happy for her? She will have dodged a bullet. You consider superficial a man desiring a lip kiss on a 3rd or 4th date? You are refering to poems, the kiss is the most described act of love in poetry! In my opinion OP is not dodging bullets here, her rules are so uptight that she is letting life go by, soon her youth will be gone and she won't be able to play the 'my chastity' card at 50. We are not telling her to become easy, simply to understand her rules of no kisses and no hand holding for weeks will only turn her into an old-maid. Edited March 9, 2020 by Gaeta 4
5x5 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: What if she looks deep into his eyes? What if she caresses his cheek? What if she tells him she enjoys their conversation? What if she talks to him in a sweet way? Well if they're both looking for a platonic non sexual/non romantic relationship that sounds like a perfect way to go about it. 20 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: We know from poems, books, stories in general from the past though that a man could love a woman after seeing her or talking to her once; he could be in a war zone writing love letters to her, Just as we also know from a considerable collection of surviving poems books, legal documents, diaries and love letters, plus lots of pornographic art and early photography, considerable numbers of men and women weren't shy about sex much at all. As for Victorian era romantic practices, you ought to read My Secret Life by "Walter" (who might be Henry Spence Ashbee or William Simpson Potter or Charles Stanley, to inform you of the reality of sexual mores amongst men and women of varying social classes from that era. Which can be summarised as follows; many working class women were easily wooed and would often have sex before and after marriage. With Upper class women mostly guarding their virginity till marriage. Then after that many would have sex with whoever they liked rather frequently with the courtesy of trying to avoid embarrassing their husbands. While middle class women fell in-between both classes. Oh and as for letter writing from war zones, since I am going through a voluminous collection of First World War documents and items from one of my great-grandfathers. I have just read a letter to his girl (who became my great-grandmother), giving her instructions on kissing in ways that were more exciting. That was sent from France after he had recently experienced the "hell" (his words) of the Battle of Passchendaele. Of which that letter seems very forward and somewhat sexual to me (and he came from an upper middle class and university educated family). 2 1
manfrombelow2 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: The only way a woman can show a romantic interest towards a man is sexual? What if she looks deep into his eyes? What if she caresses his cheek? What if she tells him she enjoys their conversation? What if she talks to him in a sweet way? What's the point of doing all these if you are not willing to let him kiss you? And I have long ago learned the hard way that one should not listen to what a woman says but observe what she does. If you tell me you "enjoy our conversations" and "talk to me in a sweet way" without any physical evidence to back those words up. Then I am sorry, all these are considered only lips services and serve no purposes at all. Anyway, to each their own. I think OP has been placing all the responsibilities on the guys and not being pragmatic enough.
manfrombelow2 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: Ok then, if people want to base their relationship on sex, sure, I have nothing more to say. If good men nowadays are called settle guys, then maybe I'm born in a wrong era cause I feel very disappointed with this. You are talking as if "a relationship based on sex" is a bad and evil thing. Even if that's the case. Do you know what's worse than "a relationship based on sex"? Answer: A relationship NOT based on sex. Sorry. But that's life. Edited March 9, 2020 by thaygiaogiang 1
5x5 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, SummerDreams said: Ok then, if people want to base their relationship on sex, sure, I have nothing more to say. Since sexual/romantic relationship are exactly that. Unless someone is wanting a platonic friendship instead of a sexual/romantic one, they would do very well to ensure that their sexual relationships are built upon strong sexual foundation. 2
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