Why don't men try to win your heart first?

[Gr8fuln2020]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'm repulsed by men who will put it in anything and wouldn't get involved with this kind of person.

I WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH A WOMAN THAT I DO NOT FIND ATTRACTIVE in an emotional, intellectual, physical way. NO way! I don't care how hot, young, if I don't see a future, I wouldn't date you in the first place. I cannot speak for others, but my desire for sex is not only for the pleasure, but also for the connection. Bonding.

[NuevoYorko]

10 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'm repulsed by men who will put it in anything and wouldn't get involved with this kind of person.

  

Plenty of folks have periods of sexual adventurism; it doesn't add up to "put it in anything."   Even if it did - when you're in your 30's and beyond you'll still be judging men by how many people they had sex with decades ago?  I doubt it.

I'm in my 50's and I don't know off the top of my head how many.  Not because it's a huge quantity; it's just not something I think about at this time of my life.   I'm sure I could add them up if I felt like it.  

I would never presume to ask a woman "how many" unless  it's a topic that came up organically and was enjoyable for both of us to discuss.  Certainly not to use against them.  If a woman asked me that, I'd suspect that she had some pretty precarious self esteem / maturity issues.  Red flag.  Fortunately, the last time it did happen was when I was in college and the young woman was ... emotionally challenged, would be a good way to put it. 

If I'm interested in a woman and desire to have a sexual relationship with her, I will find out whether we have compatible approaches to sex  as a matter of course.  "How many" is not the way to determine it.   

I suspect I'm a lot older than most of you on this thread.  If you get into your 3rd decade and you're still asking others how many sex partners they've had ... you might want to take a look at that.   

[SummerDreams]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

I suspect I'm a lot older than most of you on this thread.  If you get into your 3rd decade and you're still asking others how many sex partners they've had ... you might want to take a look at that.   

I wouldn't ask how many sexual partners he had but how many serious or semi-serious relationships he had, this is what would interest me because it would show me whether this man has stayed in at least a serious relationship, what happened, why they broke up and how this experience made him feel. Of course you have to ask some things about a potential partner's past, it makes him who he is today and what he is looking for.

[manfrombelow2]

By "winning hearts" I believe you meant to talk about guys who know the game. Guys who actually know how to make you immersed in the a love story. Guys who make you miss them and want them to the point that you actually want to have their babies.

If that's the case,  then maybe you should change your question to: "Why aren't there more guys who know how to seduce me properly instead of creepy needy guys who just want to get in my pants"?

Edited March 6, 2020 by thaygiaogiang

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Plenty of folks have periods of sexual adventurism; it doesn't add up to "put it in anything."   Even if it did - when you're in your 30's and beyond you'll still be judging men by how many people they had sex with decades ago?  I doubt it.

To some it matters a lot, age is irrelevant.
There are a lot of factors involved as to why a person may have a high number and some of them are not conducive to long term stable relationships.
That is why some want to avoid high number people.
Whether 20 or 60+ these factors may still have a bearing.
"Sexual adventurism" may be something some never really get out of their system and taking a gamble on someone who enjoyed flitting from partner to partner to partner... may not be a very wise move.
 

[thefooloftheyear]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

To some it matters a lot, age is irrelevant.
There are a lot of factors involved as to why a person may have a high number and some of them are not conducive to long term stable relationships.
That is why some want to avoid high number people.
Whether 20 or 60+ these factors may still have a bearing.
"Sexual adventurism" may be something some never really get out of their system and taking a gamble on someone who enjoyed flitting from partner to partner to partner... may not be a very wise move.
 

But let's be honest, ....who will really tell the truth here?...practically no one....That's one of the reasons why its almost pointless to ask..and why its something most people don't want to even know about...

I mean someone could have been married to one person for decades yet have had numerous sex partners during that time...Happens with both men AND women....Additionally someone could have been a player for years, yet finally find "the one" and give it all up for that person...

And even if you do get a straight answer...and you find out that the person has almost no sexual experience....who's to say that the person in that case was just a great person that exhibited self control and loyalty and not someone with a hangup about sex.?   

To me, its a road to nowhere....

TFY

[SummerDreams]

There was a guy in a forum I use to write who was 32 at the time and he was the player kind of guy who just liked to meet new women all the time. He had said that the longest relationship he even had was like for 4 months. He got really really mad when I told him that no sane woman will take him seriously when she found out that his most serious relationship was 4 months. I mean, he stopped talking to me altogether even though we had discussed many many things and we had fought for many things before. People just don't like to hear the truth. It's rare that a player will become a dedicated husband. It can happen but when you are looking for a serious relationship and there is this red flag, why would you put yourself in the position to change someone? You can skip him and find another guy who may be closer to your expectations.

[Hopeful30]

6 hours ago, thaygiaogiang said:

By "winning hearts" I believe you meant to talk about guys who know the game. Guys who actually know how to make you immersed in the a love story. Guys who make you miss them and want them to the point that you actually want to have their babies.

If that's the case,  then maybe you should change your question to: "Why aren't there more guys who know how to seduce me properly instead of creepy needy guys who just want to get in my pants"?

Seducing a woman and winning her heart are very different things. When you win a woman's heart, it means you have showed her your soul, and equally respect hers. From this perspective, sex is an extension of true connection. Seduction is manipulation for the purposes of carnal/mental sex. I'm after the deeper intimacy beyond that.

[mortensorchid]

There are a lot of other factors that can and do contribute to this whole lack of traditional / vintage values and behaviors.  There are a lot of other aspects which came into play which were not there before such as the whole "hook up culture", free love, etc.  Plus, in case you haven't noticed, people are completely bat s*** CRAZY now in all caps when they didn't seem to be before or at least not to the level that they are today.  Have you ever asked yourself why it is that your great-grandparents seemed to pair up with their high school sweetheart and then were married for 50 years when you NEVER hear of that anymore?  I think a lot of things are based on tolerance with people.  Contrary to popular believe, we are not being taught tolerance for one another we are being taught intolerance - as in "it's all about me", it's not perfect so I will change it, I will dump this man/woman and the next one will be even better, etc.  People have become more vain and narcissistic than ever.  LTRs in general (be it love, marriage, friendship, etc.) are based on tolerance because there are a lot of little things that can bug you about people.  I look back on a lot of friends I have had over the years and the ones who I no longer have.  Some of them are/were horrible people and they fell out with me and others around them, not one relationship lasted with any of them.  And I have some that I made who I have been with for the last 20+ years.  Why did those work and others didn't?  Well, life is complicated to be sure, but you have to want to stay together, laugh as much as you can with and at each other and be happy.  Sounds like it should be that way, with everyone, right?  Well, it's really ... Not.

As to why men won't attempt or woo you, me or any other woman out there?  I think they expect women to do the chasing and pursuing.  They don't understand if and when you have other things to do rather than be on your phone all day anymore.  They don't understand if and when others are mysterious and not always sharing everything in this social networking / talk show mentality we have now.  

[carhill]

For some guys, actually many I've known in real life, sex is about getting their noodle wet with an attractive lady. Nothing high-minded or complex. If it goes well they might do it again, maybe again, perhaps again and, over time, they might actually begin to love the person. Guys even say this about their wives of decades..... I liked her tits and I was horny. It worked out. Simple creatures. The romance stuff is marketing to sell the sexual desire, the most successful learn the smooth and sincere talk young, when their balls start to get that buzzing feeling around  girls a week before that were 'whatever'. I think the smoothest ones lie a little to both men and women. Lying is perfectly legal and humans do it all the time. If it works out in the end and love and attachment develops, lies are forgiven or dismissed and forgotten. 

I could argue for the intimacy and bonding stuff all day but reality with every woman I've ever been with was, it didn't start working with them unless and until I got the sexual pursuit and sexual desire in front of the other stuff. It didn't work with dozens to hundreds over many, many years. They couldn't all be wrong. I came to understand they were normal and I was wrong. Have things changed? Perhaps, but not in my generation. I'm still seeing exactly the same thing with women my age now, of course we're decades older. We haven't changed though perhaps times in general have. I fully expect to die never being asked out on a date, never having a woman pay for a date, never having a woman make the first move in any romantic way, or make the first move sexually, to ever have the heart overtly 'won'. That's just not how it apparently works. Real men don't waste their time talking about it. They're banging the broads and bouncing the babies on their knee. Anyway, the OP asked why and my male answer is it never worked. Men are pragmatists. They loathe wasting time and energy on things which don't work. If it works, that's what they do. Simple. 

Differences from the time of my parents and grandparents? Two world wars taking over a half-million men (US) and likely some women to their graves. Economic strife. Destitution. Struggle. People, average people, really appreciated what they had, life, family, friends, a few bucks in their pocket. Today it's all to easy and sanitary, comparatively. I learned a bit of the texture from reading my fathers letters to his first wife and daughters from his war location in Italy. I can't imagine what that was like, day to day for a couple years. Not will I get a promotion, rather will I die today in some no name place for no reason other than we're at war. Reality. We know nothing of that. It bonded people, men to men as lifelong loyal friends and men and women as partners and spouses. Not everyone obviously but plenty. A stateside man won the heart of a woman of a serviceman, or heck maybe the sex was just good, and she left him while at war. That's reality too, of an imperfect life.

[Ruby Slippers]

9 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Plenty of folks have periods of sexual adventurism;  

That's a very nice way of describing promiscuity.

You have two basic camps of people: promiscuous (dictionary definition: having many transient sexual relationships), and non. In my experience, these two camps of people have very different values and points of view.

I have zero interest in getting serious with anyone with a history of promiscuity. If you think that makes me immature or insecure, respectfully, I don't care. I feel 100% mature and secure in my decision to consider only men with similar values and views on sex to me.

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

I wouldn't ask how many sexual partners he had but how many serious or semi-serious relationships he had, this is what would interest me because it would show me whether this man has stayed in at least a serious relationship, what happened, why they broke up and how this experience made him feel. Of course you have to ask some things about a potential partner's past, it makes him who he is today and what he is looking for.

Agreed.

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, thaygiaogiang said:

 

 

 

 

Quote

Sexual adventurism" may be something some never really get out of their system and taking a gamble on someone who enjoyed flitting from partner to partner to partner... may not be a very wise move.  

Hm.  I suppose I'd just be stunningly disinterested in a woman who was anywhere near my age peer who asked me my "number."  

My approach to sex at 50+ is quite evolved from what it was when I was 21.  I suppose I am compatible with women who have experienced likewise.  

Edited March 6, 2020 by NuevoYorko

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That's a very nice way of describing promiscuity.

 

I find it sad to put negative value judgements on sex; how is "promiscuity" even a useful word?  

Generally as people  mature, many of us come to a place where we understand that the way a person has evolved through life experiences  may be even more important than the number of people they've had sex with. Thank God!

In my case, my sexual experiences along with my travel (which I conducted using a backpack, various train passes and my thumb, which I suppose would earn me the lable of "shiftless" , the loves in my life, marriage (ended in divorce!  Maybe even more egregious than a "high number" to folks with different standards than yours) , successes and failures in business and work ventures,  how I've dealt with being an artist, my experiences with parenthood have contributed to making me the person I am today.  Honestly, women who would judge me negatively on such things just have not come on my radar.  Compelling, accomplished, inspiring and, yes, SEXY women have, and for that I'm eternally grateful.

When I think of someone asking me "how many different women have you had sex with?"  my reaction would be that the she probably has some issues that I don't need in my life.   

Of course, I'm an old fart. I don't mean to come off as defensive, I am ok with who I am and I'm sure the two of us would never cross paths.    And I can't even remember what I thought of a woman's "number" when I was your age.  Viva la evolution!  

[ThorntonMelon]

Plenty of women go slow emotionally and are more physical early on. There's not a hard and fast rule on whats the right way to do things. Communication and make sure you feel comfortable is all you can do. 

[contel3]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That's a very nice way of describing promiscuity.

You have two basic camps of people: promiscuous (dictionary definition: having many transient sexual relationships), and non. In my experience, these two camps of people have very different values and points of view.

I have zero interest in getting serious with anyone with a history of promiscuity. If you think that makes me immature or insecure, respectfully, I don't care. I feel 100% mature and secure in my decision to consider only men with similar values and views on sex to me.

How can you really be sure a person is telling the truth though? Most people will lie about these things.

Also, what someone might consider promiscuous might be totally fine for someone else. Some people will be upset at their SO for having had more than one relationship in their lifetime.

Sex is something beautiful for all the parties involved, I don't get why people judge each other so harshly for doing it. As long as you're not hurting anyone physically or emotionally it's not like you're doing something bad.

[Miss Spider]

4 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That's a very nice way of describing promiscuity.

You have two basic camps of people: promiscuous (dictionary definition: having many transient sexual relationships), and non. In my experience, these two camps of people have very different values and points of view.

I have zero interest in getting serious with anyone with a history of promiscuity. If you think that makes me immature or insecure, respectfully, I don't care. I feel 100% mature and secure in my decision to consider only men with similar values and views on sex to me.

Agreed. I have no problem with promiscuous people. But for my own partners, I like men who are picky and discerning about who they are intimate with. It is a sign of a quality dating prospect to me.  Not really interested in loose men. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[chillii]

28 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Agreed. I have no problem with promiscuous people. But for my own partners, I like men who are picky and discerning about who they are intimate with. It is a sign of a quality dating prospect to me.  Not really interested in loose men. 

 

 

Same here with women.  lf l was to describe things about my woman in this way or my ex way back when, very few through this forum could even comprehend their ways and thinking , or mine. Although l don't think l even could describe things because although it's fairly normal in my world it all seems totally foreign to any thinking around here and any time l even touch on it no one knows wtf l'm even talking about anyway,  it'd start a 100 page thread about all this rubbish.  l can see it all and the replies and arguing right now haha. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by chillii

[Ruby Slippers]

2 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I have no problem with promiscuous people. But for my own partners, I like men who are picky and discerning about who they are intimate with.

Same. Like attracts like.

I have good friends who've had tons of partners. I love them as friends, as sisters even, but we wouldn't last a week in a romantic relationship.

[simpycurious]

9 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

Seducing a woman and winning her heart are very different things. When you win a woman's heart, it means you have showed her your soul, and equally respect hers. From this perspective, sex is an extension of true connection. Seduction is manipulation for the purposes of carnal/mental sex. I'm after the deeper intimacy beyond that.

I agree Hope.  A true connection will lead to everything else IN DUE TIME.  Why is it so important to rush?  

[carhill]

4 hours ago, SumGuy said:

From your posts thinking you are in your 60s   
im in my 50s
ive had women ask me on dates, pay, pay even dates I set up, certainly have had them make the first move on me (including sex), and as for wooing, well making me dinner, massages, gifts that show they hear and see you....sure but nothing like out of a 19th century novel    
It’s not that odd with the women I seek and seem to attract...has been that way since high school...

and I’m not 6’ or movie star handsome, or rich (actually poor until my 30s) pretty introverted even shy when young...it more than just luck.  To me it means there exist a whole world of women the internet says doesn’t exist

I am 60's and was married too. It seems you're clueless that people have different life experiences. Note I never attempted to invalidate yours at all and you've been at this in multiple threads. It is what it is. I'm done with you.

[SumGuy]

21 minutes ago, carhill said:

I am 60's and was married too. It seems you're clueless that people have different life experiences. Note I never attempted to invalidate yours at all and you've been at this in multiple threads. It is what it is. I'm done with you.

Man I’m all about different life experiences and different people wanting different things, different groups, and different cultures, and no one true way in this dating thing

i think I also admitted, but ca now, I know of the culture of which you speak, I’m sure as not as well as you

never did I deny you experienced what you have or that your approach didn’t work for you

i always talk about mine as an example, I agree often offered as a counter example...

maybe I react to your phrasing that reads to me as you saying your experience is the way it is...

I’ll assume from now on that it’s just an example, realize my experience is just another example even if we are having different experiences with people in the same age range and same geographical location

Edited March 7, 2020 by SumGuy

[basil67]

10 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

He got really really mad when I told him that no sane woman will take him seriously when she found out that his most serious relationship was 4 months. I mean, he stopped talking to me altogether even though we had discussed many many things and we had fought for many things before.

Was he asking for your opinion?

[SummerDreams]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Was he asking for your opinion?

It was a conversation in the forum, one of many we had had. He was saying he dislikes people who find a partner and then they only go out with other couple friends and "belittle" single people. He was mad with people saying women should be careful with who they go out with and that it's better to find a partner through mutual friends because he wants women to feel free to talk to strangers so he meets as many women as possible. He was an amazing, clueless guy who thought that one day he will just wake up having decided that now it's the time to find a wife and all girls will be crazy for him when they find out about his past.

[basil67]

@SummerDreams, well the first sentence is fair.  But the second one is nuts.  He must have been on of those who thinks that woman's choices should revolve around the needs of men.