Why don't men try to win your heart first?

March 3, 2020

I think it depends on how the sexual pass is made & how you respond to it. I would not get insulted because the guy tried, as long as he was gracious in handling your request that the request be tabled for now. On one level the fact that the guy made a pass at you is complimentary, sort of. If he keeps pushing for sex only that is not so complimentary & signals that he's only interested in his own pleasure but don't automatically shoot an otherwise good guy for trying.

What is too much for you? You say you need to be wooed before he makes "a sexual move". What are you calling sexual? Are you OK with a goodnight kiss? If a kiss is too much for you before being wooed, that may be too much waiting for some guys. In a dating situation there has to be some physical contact whether handholding, a peck on the cheek, a hug, a simple kiss or a French kiss but an interaction devoid of any contact may be a bit off putting to many men.

There are ways to silently signal back off through body language.

March 3, 2020

7 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Nonsense

Not in my experience. Almost all of my sexual experiences (25+ women) happened very early without significant effort. In contrast, the women I put the most effort into early on are the ones who I never had sex with. I've never had a "promise" of future sex come to fruition.

If wooing women and patiently winning them over had yielded positive results, I would likely have never strayed from that approach.

March 3, 2020

4 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

I'm just feeling hopeless that I haven't met my match yet It's tough having the minority mentality (at least I feel like I have a minority mentality).

I totally understand. I've been in that mindset more than I'd like to remember. But try to keep the faith!

My boyfriend and I have had our ups and downs. We're both very headstrong and tend to think we know everything, so we butt heads. But no matter what happens, he never gives up on us, and we're getting better at understanding each other's sensitivities and handling them with care. We both have our flaws, but his willingness to adapt so things keep getting better is next-level and sometimes I'm truly blown away by his degree of seriousness and commitment.

March 3, 2020

12 minutes ago, Shining One said:

If a woman does have sexual interest in me, she doesn't "need" to be won over.

9 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Nonsense

Just to note, I think @Shining One is just communicating his experiences. Every woman is a bit different and I believe there are indeed women like that. (As well as ones who aren't like that, such as yourself.)

March 3, 2020

5 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I think it depends on how the sexual pass is made & how you respond to it. I would not get insulted because the guy tried, as long as he was gracious in handling your request that the request be tabled for now. On one level the fact that the guy made a pass at you is complimentary, sort of. If he keeps pushing for sex only that is not so complimentary & signals that he's only interested in his own pleasure but don't automatically shoot an otherwise good guy for trying.

What is too much for you? You say you need to be wooed before he makes "a sexual move". What are you calling sexual? Are you OK with a goodnight kiss? If a kiss is too much for you before being wooed, that may be too much waiting for some guys. In a dating situation there has to be some physical contact whether handholding, a peck on the cheek, a hug, a simple kiss or a French kiss but an interaction devoid of any contact may be a bit off putting to many men.

There are ways to silently signal back off through body language.

Physical contact on the first date is too much for me (holding hands, mouth kisses, arm around my waist, etc.) Kissing on the cheek is fine, it's actually part of my culture when you greet someone (touching cheeks and mwak!)

Physical contact after a few dates, such as kiss on the cheek, hand on the waist (she's my date) is fine with me.

Sexual advances of any kind before we've had the opportunity to physically explore each other (kissing, fondling, etc.) is WAY too soon for me.

2 minutes ago, Shining One said:

Not in my experience. Almost all of my sexual experiences (25+ women) happened very early without significant effort. In contrast, the women I put the most effort into early on are the ones who I never had sex with. I've never had a "promise" of future sex come to fruition.

If wooing women and patiently winning them over had yielded positive results, I would likely have never strayed from that approach.

How many of these 25+ turned into longterm or satisfying relationships? (Curious)

March 3, 2020

3 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Interesting anecdotes, but oh my gosh, I read this so wrong.

Long story, but I married my junior high/high school sweetheart and we had a child. He left when she was nine months old and did not reappear until I was already dating my second husband. He was a shy guy and I tickled him just to get him to kiss me. Six months later he turned 18 and we married, then he graduated high school. He already had a job and had always been productive - several jobs even before that. I was getting paid for attending school and working with my daughter in the Child Care center.

We fell in love over the CB radio, and even further after meeting...
THAT was romantic.

Lasted 30 years until the interference and my wayward mid-life crisis and blind stubbornness.

Uh... keeping on topic. If I am to choose a guy for a lifelong companion now, I want to make sure we are good companions for certain before I jump into bed.
I am drug and disease free and want to know for certain he is as well. But it'll be a while... no hurry.

March 3, 2020

4 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I totally understand. I've been in that mindset more than I'd like to remember. But try to keep the faith!

My boyfriend and I have had our ups and downs. We're both very headstrong and tend to think we know everything, so we butt heads. But no matter what happens, he never gives up on us, and we're getting better at understanding each other's sensitivities and handling them with care. We both have our flaws, but his willingness to adapt so things keep getting better is next-level and sometimes I'm truly blown away by his degree of seriousness and commitment.

Thank you for your kind words My faith has been faltering, not gonna lie. You're a lucky lady to have found such a wonderful man! Blessing blessings

March 3, 2020

6 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I would not get insulted because the guy tried, as long as he was gracious in handling your request that the request be tabled for now. On one level the fact that the guy made a pass at you is complimentary, sort of. If he keeps pushing for sex only that is not so complimentary & signals that he's only interested in his own pleasure but don't automatically shoot an otherwise good guy for trying.

Also, don't do what I did.

When he came back around and apologized, after I accepted that, he carefully pointed out that my defenses were weak. Though I hated to admit he was right, I had to admit that he was right!

We were kissing, then he gradually ramped up to touchiness, which I playfully wriggled out of. But then I let him kiss me again, and the cycle repeated. In the moment, I "allowed" it all to happen. It was only later after analyzing the situation that I felt put off and gunshy.

If I had laid down a firmer boundary and just ended the date then, it never would have gotten to the point of me feeling put off. I blame the two drinks I had - but that's really no excuse. I did have some responsibility in the situation, and him logically pointing out that fact made me think twice and feel it was only fair to give him another shot.

March 3, 2020

3 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

How many of these 25+ turned into longterm or satisfying relationships? (Curious)

Only four, with the longest lasting just under five years.

March 3, 2020

To be honest... most men aren't particularly interested in winning your heart until after they've slept with you. You don't really know what you're letting yourself into before then. You should expect guys to make a move relatively early, that's just how the dating world is these days. I don't think it's fair to judge a guy for trying to escalate physically. At the same time though, you should expect them to respect your boundaries if you indicate you're not ready yet. It's absolutely fair to judge a guy who doesn't pay attention to how you're feeling.

March 3, 2020

Just now, Hopeful30 said:

Physical contact on the first date is too much for me (holding hands, mouth kisses, arm around my waist, etc.) Kissing on the cheek is fine, it's actually part of my culture when you greet someone (touching cheeks and mwak!)

Physical contact after a few dates, such as kiss on the cheek, hand on the waist (she's my date) is fine with me.

Sexual advances of any kind before we've had the opportunity to physically explore each other (kissing, fondling, etc.) is WAY too soon for me.

The no hand holding is where I think you may lose a lot of guys, especially ones who don't share your background. I'm not big on the hand around my waist early on . . . too possessive. If I was DTF I have had sex on or before a 1st date -- totally my choice -- but I still get annoyed the dominantly possessive stuff.

I would greet a new man with a handshake. I know that is awkward for some women but it's a behavior you can learn. I did. Granted I learned for business but it breaks the touch barrier while maintaining a distance. At the end of the date IF you are feeling it, do the cultural traditional kiss on the cheek thing. Say hello that way next time but otherwise maintain a respectful distance. Since touching is out of bounds you best lean in a lot & angle your body toward your date from a distance so he visually sees both the interest & the need for space / respect.

March 3, 2020

2 minutes ago, Andy_K said:

To be honest... most men aren't particularly interested in winning your heart until after they've slept with you. You don't really know what you're letting yourself into before then. You should expect guys to make a move relatively early, that's just how the dating world is these days. I don't think it's fair to judge a guy for trying to escalate physically. At the same time though, you should expect them to respect your boundaries if you indicate you're not ready yet. It's absolutely fair to judge a guy who doesn't pay attention to how you're feeling.

I think you pointed out something important here. I have an expectation of men to respect me as a woman, period. This expectation includes no sexual advances until I hint that they're appropriate. Am I being too strict about this?

March 3, 2020

25 minutes ago, Shining One said:

Not in my experience. Almost all of my sexual experiences (25+ women) happened very early without significant effort. In contrast, the women I put the most effort into early on are the ones who I never had sex with. I've never had a "promise" of future sex come to fruition.

If wooing women and patiently winning them over had yielded positive results, I would likely have never strayed from that approach.

This is extremely similar to what I've experienced.

Not saying that it's a bad approach to put in more effort and wait longer before getting physical, but perhaps the women who prefer that are just fundamentally on a different wavelength to me in the first place, so failure is inevitable.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Andy_K

March 3, 2020

30 minutes ago, Shining One said:

Not in my experience. Almost all of my sexual experiences (25+ women) happened very early without significant effort. In contrast, the women I put the most effort into early on are the ones who I never had sex with. I've never had a "promise" of future sex come to fruition.

If wooing women and patiently winning them over had yielded positive results, I would likely have never strayed from that approach.

This reflects my husband's experience too. Of the girls he's been in a relationship with, ALL started with early sex. Of the ones who held him at bay, it didn't get off the ground even (not even hand holding or a sweet kiss) after quite a number of dates. He suspects they were using him for free meals and company.

Edited March 3, 2020 by basil67

March 3, 2020

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

This reflects my husband's experience too. Of the girls he's been in a relationship with, ALL started with early sex. Of the ones who held him at bay, it didn't get off the ground even (not even hand holding or a sweet kiss) after quite a number of dates. He suspects they were using him for free meals and company.

This leads me to my next question. How can you demonstrate to a man that he's not wasting his time? I understand that women who don't show interest at all are probably using the man to get free meals. But what about the women who have genuine interest but need more time? What's a good way to approach this?

March 3, 2020

1 minute ago, Hopeful30 said:

I think you pointed out something important here. I have an expectation of men to respect me as a woman, period. This expectation includes no sexual advances until I hint that they're appropriate. Am I being too strict about this?

Maybe. Complicated topic. What counts as a sexual advance? Some tact should be expected. And one step at a time, not three.

For example, I'd assume that if you're talking within the 'intimate zone' (i.e close together) combined with some light physical contact (shoulder, waist, hair, etc) and there are no obvious signs of discomfort being shown (breaking eye contact, moving, lack of smiling or laughter) then a kiss is okay. If you're kissing somewhere private like your house or his for any length of time, expect it to go further.

On the other hand, grabbing your bum out of the blue is kinda tactless.

March 3, 2020

6 minutes ago, Andy_K said:

Maybe. Complicated topic. What counts as a sexual advance? Some tact should be expected. And one step at a time, not three.

For example, I'd assume that if you're talking within the 'intimate zone' (i.e close together) combined with some light physical contact (shoulder, waist, hair, etc) and there are no obvious signs of discomfort being shown (breaking eye contact, moving, lack of smiling or laughter) then a kiss is okay. If you're kissing somewhere private like your house or his for any length of time, expect it to go further.

On the other hand, grabbing your bum out of the blue is kinda tactless.

Maybe it's me. I expect a man to respect my personal space for longer than one date. At least three, until I flirt physically (touching, bumping, etc.). I've never been sexually abused (thank god) yet I still feel repulsed when men advance too quickly. What if your mother's new date tried to touch her right away? Would that be okay with you? I expect similar respect.

Maybe it's my recent dating experiences that make me feel awkward. Reaching for my hand, suggesting a kiss on the first date. Like I've known you for ONE HOUR. Seriously???

Edited March 3, 2020 by Hopeful30

March 3, 2020

12 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

But what about the women who have genuine interest but need more time? What's a good way to approach this?

Not head on. See my suggestions above but do NOT talk about it. You have to communicate your need for space / distance / time through body language & location. See Andy K's post above. Stay out of intimate situations (houses, dorms, motel rooms etc) and avoid isolated places. A walk on the beach may be OK but don't bring a blanket.

Edited March 3, 2020 by d0nnivain

March 3, 2020

I think it’s a lot about meeting the right person who shares your belief on going slow on the sexual front. I went on 3 dates with a guy who said he does not kiss until exclusive. I was out of there so fast. It’s all about the right match.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough

March 3, 2020

16 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

This leads me to my next question. How can you demonstrate to a man that he's not wasting his time? I understand that women who don't show interest at all are probably using the man to get free meals. But what about the women who have genuine interest but need more time? What's a good way to approach this?

I'd come right out and talk about it before the first date or on the first date.

I think men generally do very well with direct communication, not so well with innuendo and hints.

March 3, 2020

I cant speak for all men, but IME most women are either "green light, yellow, or red".....Its pretty easy to pick up the body language....IME anyway...

There are cases where it can get confusing and the body language is difficult to read......You get women who drop all kinds of sexual innuendo, sticking their tits practically in a guys face, and when guys go for it, they are like "hey, wait a minute now"....Its like putting bait in front of the fish....then yanking the line out of the water at the point of strike...

Im not trying to put it back on the OP, but I don't know what she does when on a date, and what potential messages are being sent....With most you just know where they stand and its not like there is a whole lot of wondering or mixed signals..

TFY

Edited March 3, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

March 3, 2020

Just now, Ruby Slippers said:

I'd come right out and talk about it before the first date or on the first date.

I think men generally do very well with direct communication, not so well with innuendo and hints.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Ruby Slippers you know I respect you but there is just no way in the world a conversation like this can happen. the words will just be too awkward & forced. Nobody will date her if she tries this. Instead she needs to communicate her entitlement to respect through the dignified way she comports herself on the date.

March 3, 2020

Maybe you're right. I don't know. I just know that direct, open, honest communication with men has been more effective for me than any kind of hinting, suggesting, or whatever. Most men don't seem to pick up on subtle hints. But they clearly understand and appreciate direct communication. I guess I'd ask the men here - would you rather a woman who doesn't want to hold hands until at least date 4 hint about that, or come right out and explain to you that she's interested and serious, but doesn't feel comfortable with that until she gets to know you after a few dates?

March 3, 2020

3 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Maybe you're right. I don't know. I just know that direct, open, honest communication with men has been more effective for me than any kind of hinting, suggesting, or whatever. Most men don't seem to pick up on subtle hints. But they clearly understand and appreciate direct communication. I guess I'd ask the men here - would you rather a woman who doesn't want to hold hands until at least date 4 hint about that, or come right out and explain to you that she's interested and serious, but doesn't feel comfortable with that until she gets to know you after a few dates?

What she said ^^^^^^^

March 3, 2020

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

Nonsense

I agree Hope that's NONSENSE. Being won over, being romanced, whatever you want to call it is NOT A BAD THING.

I could make a case that it builds the anticipation and electricity in a budding relationship. In the end, you need to do

what's best for yourself and what makes you content (this is for Hope). And you don't have to apologize for what you

believe in.

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