Why don't men try to win your heart first?

[basil67]

13 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Yes of course. But it's this type of women who regret the next day because they realize they came off as easy and this really nice guy who had a potential may never take them seriously after they slept with him 3 hours or so after they met them. Every action (even spontaneous actions) has consequences.

You're responding to "Plenty of women are comfortable with more spontaneity than you give them credit for".   I think you just proved the point that you're not giving women credit for being able to be spontaneous.  

[NuevoYorko]

10 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

I disagree.  I am the "Really Nice guy", and a few times in my life, I had sex with someone the first day we met.  Now... the reason I don't take that person seriously after is because I know she is easy, and may fall into someone else's bed easily while I'm dating her.   I learned this from one of my early relationships.  I could have had this girl the first time I was alone with her... but I stopped, because I didn't know if I wanted a relationship.  Well the next day we had sex... and she wound up cheating on me later.  

Well ... that's too bad.  Sounds like you took quite a leap there.  There are probably 10 or more people here on this thread who are married or in relationships with a person they had sex with on their first date.  

Being a cheater is not related to how a person chooses to conduct their sex life.  

[chillii]

Wouldn't be too sure about that. l'd certainly trust certain ways 10 times more than others and for proven good reason.

[Hopeful30]

20 hours ago, simpycurious said:

I still say that there is no need to rush or put parameters on things especially when the connection is very strong. 

It will happen when the timing is right.  You might have one party that is somewhat old fashioned and wants to 

wait on intimacy until  they feel there is something substantial between them.  

I feel that men these days try to create this bond/connection by jumping straight to sexual intimacy. They fail to realize that sexual intimacy is an EXTENSION of bond/connection/chemistry. Jumping straight to sex skips these steps and doesn't fill the gap they create. While everyone's interactions with men/women are going to be different, sex isn't the goal, it's a by-product of the goal. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Hopeful30

[SummerDreams]

2 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

I feel that men these days try to create this bond/connection by jumping straight to sexual intimacy. They fail to realize that sexual intimacy is an EXTENSION of bond/connection/chemistry. Jumping straight to sex skips these steps and doesn't fill the gap they create. While everyone's interactions with men/women are going to be different, sex isn't the goal, it's a by-product of the goal. 

It's up to you to inform them early on that this is not who you are. As you see in this thread, there are plenty of men who share your way of thinking so try to find these men. Trust me, they are out there.

[Hopeful30]

1 minute ago, SummerDreams said:

It's up to you to inform them early on that this is not who you are. As you see in this thread, there are plenty of men who share your way of thinking so try to find these men. Trust me, they are out there.

[simpycurious]

Summer is right.  Hope, you can find someone that shares your views and values.  So, don't give up HOPE.

[5x5]

9 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

I feel that men these days try to create this bond/connection by jumping straight to sexual intimacy. They fail to realize that sexual intimacy is an EXTENSION of bond/connection/chemistry. Jumping straight to sex skips these steps and doesn't fill the gap they create.

In my experience women frequently lead sexual intimacy early on as well, so it isn't a male or female thing it is a people thing.

Plus this idea that enthusiastically sharing sex early in a romantic relationship skips the generation of a bond, connection and chemistry, while creating a gap that cannot be filled is simply not true.

Do you really believe that my relationship with my wife described as follows, has gaps that are not filled?

...

Close to 24 years ago my wife and I went on a lunchtime date after she asked me out on that date. Since there was that buzzing of mutual sexual attraction in the air, we then followed it up with a second date on the same evening. During that evening date we watched a cool film called Trainspotting, went to a computer game arcade and played some games, had dinner at a cafe, walked around the CBD of our city then walked back to her place. Where I spent the rest of the night at her place, talking to her while kissing and heavy petting. At the end of our third date we shared sex together at her place with her initiating physically while also verbally asking me to have sex with her.

Today in less than two months we will celebrate our 21st wedding anniversary.

Of which throughout our decades plus of being together, we still enjoy spending time together and we still love talking to each other. We're still happy to see each other in the morning and after work and still enjoy sharing a bed together. We hold hands when we're out, we walk arm in arm, she leans on me and holds me close.

We have bought a home together and raised two children together as well. With our oldest making it to our states honour roll for his Higher School Certificate results, who is now in his second year (doing two bachelors degrees) at one of the top universities in my country with outstanding results so far. While our youngest who is still in High School, is an accomplished concert musician and a talented illustrator.

Early on into our dating relationship my wife and I survived a multiple casualty event together. Where I rendered first aid to her, shortly after I had resigned myself to being killed, while she bled all over me with serious injuries. I also gave aid to the other casualties who had critical injuries. While I controlled the site until ambulance and police services arrived. I then spent weeks on leave from work helping my wife (then new girlfriend) shower and go the toilet etc while she recovered from her injuries.

We have also been through a house fire together as a consequence of a housemate of my wife in our first year. I have physically protected my wife from a man on a street once when we were out. I have physically forced a much taller man who broke into my wife's home out the front door after physically restraining him.

We have weathered floods together including with our then town being cut off for two weeks, with the water stopping just at our front door. My wife stood by me while I variously spent months and weeks away away from her with the Army, through our first few years of marriage. She stood by me during months in hospital, when I almost died through a burst appendix that wasn't treated in time. I have supported her through having half her thyroid being removed, and am supporting and loving her while she is fighting breast cancer right now.

We have both supported each other through our careers, and have moved to new homes for the other, to support career advancement as through good times and have seen redundancy and moved up professionally despite that as well.

While for just over a year we have been supporting each other and our youngest as she struggles with a debilitating illness as well.

Yet through all of our 23+ years of being together, we have continued to date each other, go to concerts together, go to the theatre, art galleries, museums and cinemas together. Plus we still go shopping together, go for afternoon or evening walks together, talk to each other, share our lives yet still afford each other time apart as well. While having always maintained a high frequency shared sex life together through everything we have experienced from the very beginning of our being together.

...

It is also notable that all of my wife's, women friends who have remained perpetually single up into their 40s and 50s thus far. According to my wife all of them have long lists of relationship rules and requirements, plus timings for how long any sexual intimacy must not occur. Yet those women keep finding themselves alone again despite being in different relationships, because they can't see that they are the lions share of their own problems.

Of which one of my wife's friends who is in her late 40s and is still a virgin, has amazingly been engaged twice when she was in her mid and late twenties. Yet every relationship she has been in ends, because of her banner parade of rules.

At one point not that long ago she told my wife about a guy she found on a dating website that she was keen on. Yet she was deeply offended that he dared to express a desire to have sex with her soon. My wife told her maybe she should take him up on his offer since her way never ever works out, she isn't getting any younger and sex can be lots of fun. Yet blah, blah, blah... men are this and men are that, relationships need to be this and that on and on.

So being the age she is, plenty of men sensibly don't continue to waste their time with her. Once they realise she doesn't really want to be in a sexual relationship. While ever she is determined to hang onto her prescriptive ideas, I guess no one can save her from herself.

Edited March 11, 2020 by 5x5

[SummerDreams]

11 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Plus this idea that enthusiastically sharing sex early in a romantic relationship skips the generation of a bond, connection and chemistry, while creating a gap that cannot be filled is simply not true.

I'm happy that you and your wife have a great relationship and sorry for everything she is going through at the moment, I wish her the best.

But the fact is that, for every incident one provides where having sex early didn't have an impact to the emotional connection of the couple, there will be another incident that it did. I mean, every individual is different and every case is different. So lets just agree that every person should act how they want and feel it's right.

[Hopeful30]

I was doing some reading about dating across different cultures, and came across an article that explained why time and time again, India is the country with the highest rates of sexual satisfaction. The link is below:

https://www.sexual.nu/thats-why-indians-are-more-sexually-satisfied-than-americans/

Turns out they wait longest before having sex!! They build the anticipation and connection, which makes sex much more satisfying despite the fact that they have the smallest penises (from what I have read, I've never been with an Indian man so I have no real frame of reference). This article is exactly my view of sex. I'm now considering dating Indian men (although this is very much out of my comfort zone, I've only ever been with white men).

Curious what you guys think?

 

[SumGuy]

Is this related in any  way to arranged marriages?  There is also bride burning in India.   Wouldn't assume that all is fine in how traditional India views male-female relations from this article.  Assuming even the article is accurate in it's conclusions.  Could be a lot of other reasons for the difference besides them waiting longer.  I for one will vote for Tantric sex  

Not trying to dissuade you from waiting or talking it slow, just be careful before leaping.

I will say though of the Indian guys I've known in the US (all smart technical guys and many), none of them came across as misogynistic. If anything they did not like arranged marriages, the caste system or most of the conservative-traditional stuff (India version), those are some of the reasons they want to naturalize to the US.  

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

Curious what you guys think?

I cannot believe you are comparing a western country with India who has no respect for humans's rights and women's and little girls are raped in bright day light on side of the roads! 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

Turns out they wait longest before having sex!!

I was under the impression this thread was not about sex but about you not wanting to kiss or hand hold for weeks? 

No one will debate with you when is the right time to have sex, it's your prerogative. 

So while I am at it, how many weeks do you want a man to wait before kissing you?

[Hopeful30]

Just now, Gaeta said:

I was under the impression this thread was not about sex but about you not wanting to kiss or hand hold for weeks? 

No one will debate with you when is the right time to have sex, it's your prerogative. 

So while I am at it, how many weeks do you want a man to wait before kissing you?

There is no set time for when a man can make a sexual advance, the point is they make advances before establishing a genuine connection/bond. Perhaps a literal example is more helpful: sexual advance without connection/bond (for me) is like penetration without foreplay. You're skipping vital steps that make the sex enjoyable.

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

There is no set time for when a man can make a sexual advance, the point is they make advances before establishing a genuine connection/bond. Perhaps a literal example is more helpful: sexual advance without connection/bond (for me) is like penetration without foreplay. You're skipping vital steps that make the sex enjoyable.

I understand your philosophy but you are not answering my question. How long does it take you to feel that connection? When do you decide it's been long enough and there won't be a connection? Do you think it's reasonable to wait 2 months for kissing a man?  

What have you done to only meet men with your dating philosophy? if this is so important to you why don't you make it clear to men you make contact with even before meeting? 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Gaeta

[Hopeful30]

8 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I understand your philosophy but you are not answering my question. How long does it take you to feel that connection? When do you decide it's been long enough and there won't be a connection? Do you think it's reasonable to wait 2 months for kissing a man?  

What have you done to only meet men with your dating philosophy? if this is so important to you why don't you make it clear to men to make contact with even before meeting? 

I can't give a direct answer because it depends on the man, how often we see each other, and how comfortable we are with each other (all these factors vary). The point is we must go with the flow, however I've noticed men try to jump the gun. 

The reason I created this post is because I am having difficulty meeting men with the same philosophy. Posters provided examples of how to make this clear early on (mentioning that I like to take things slow and establish a connection before sexual advances). I haven't been on any dates recently so I haven't have the opportunity to put this into play.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Hopeful30

[Ruby Slippers]

2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

Turns out they wait longest before having sex!! They build the anticipation and connection, which makes sex much more satisfying despite the fact that they have the smallest penises (from what I have read, I've never been with an Indian man so I have no real frame of reference). This article is exactly my view of sex. I'm now considering dating Indian men (although this is very much out of my comfort zone, I've only ever been with white men).

Curious what you guys think?

My half-Persian boyfriend said he thinks a big part of the reason he's still so revved up for sex at age 55 is that he grew up in a culture where premarital sex was taboo and he waited till he was married at age 30 to have sex. He says he thinks a lot of Western men don't appreciate real sex with real women anymore because they've been spoiled/numbed to the hotness of it by starting sex in high school. He, on the other hand, maintains an exceptionally high level of desire and drive because he hasn't been numbed to it. Sexually he behaves and performs like a man half his age and I freakin love it

Years ago I had an Indian boyfriend with a similar view. He said that in his culture, just seeing a woman's ankle is exciting. While so many Western men are numb even to most extreme sexual imagery anymore. Sad!

I seem to attract old world men - from the Middle East and Southeast Asia - probably because I respond very well to their generally high levels of desire and drive. Also their high level of focus on developing the intellect, achieving in the career domain, being a strong man in the traditional ways.

There's almost a complete lack of typical Western game-playing among these men. Generally they like to be close and bonded, none of the distance-creating BS that a lot of Westerners engage in.

My Indian boyfriend was Muslim, Arab background, so endowment was most certainly not an issue. Also not an issue with my boyfriend now - quite the contrary 

[Hopeful30]

2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

My half-Persian boyfriend said he thinks a big part of the reason he's still so revved up for sex at age 55 is that he grew up in a culture where premarital sex was taboo and he waited till he was married at age 30 to have sex. He says he thinks a lot of Western men don't appreciate real sex with real women anymore because they've been spoiled/numbed to the hotness of it by starting sex in high school. He, on the other hand, maintains an exceptionally high level of desire and drive because he hasn't been numbed to it. Sexually he behaves and performs like a man half his age and I freakin love it

Years ago I had an Indian boyfriend with a similar view. He said that in his culture, just seeing a woman's ankle is exciting. While so many Western men are numb even to most extreme sexual imagery anymore. Sad!

I seem to attract old world men - from the Middle East and Southeast Asia - probably because I respond very well to their generally high levels of desire and drive. Also their high level of focus on developing the intellect, achieving in the career domain, being a strong man in the traditional ways.

There's almost a complete lack of typical Western game-playing among these men. Generally they like to be close and bonded, none of the distance-creating BS that a lot of Westerners engage in.

My Indian boyfriend was Muslim, Arab background, so endowment was most certainly not an issue. Also not an issue with my boyfriend now - quite the contrary 

I am curious if you are from Southeast Asian/Middle Eastern background as well? 

[Ruby Slippers]

Nope. White bread American, blonde with blue eyes, mostly Irish blood

[Hopeful30]

5 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Nope. White bread American, blonde with blue eyes, mostly Irish blood

If I may ask, when did you and your current boyfriend (of this mentality we are talking about) have sex for the first time? 

[Ruby Slippers]

I sent you a PM.

[Els]

5 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

I was doing some reading about dating across different cultures, and came across an article that explained why time and time again, India is the country with the highest rates of sexual satisfaction. The link is below:

https://www.sexual.nu/thats-why-indians-are-more-sexually-satisfied-than-americans/

Turns out they wait longest before having sex!! They build the anticipation and connection, which makes sex much more satisfying despite the fact that they have the smallest penises (from what I have read, I've never been with an Indian man so I have no real frame of reference). This article is exactly my view of sex. I'm now considering dating Indian men (although this is very much out of my comfort zone, I've only ever been with white men).

Curious what you guys think?

Weeellll... I wouldn't really hold India up as the gold standard of relationships. Of course there are good Indian men (I know a few), but the traditional culture as a whole is very misogynistic. Many of the older men still think it's not "possible" for a man to rape his wife, that a woman who is raped because she is out alone is "asking for it", menstruating girls should be barred from school, so on and so forth.

I do think that more "traditional" Westerners or other kinds of slightly more conservative cultures might be more up your alley than the average guy, though. FWIW, H and I are East Asian, and while we're not very traditional compared to the others in our culture, I do have to say that there IS something to be said for growing up in a culture where sex isn't something you expect to do in high school. To put this into context, when I was dating my first boyfriend in college, and I told him I wanted to have sex (just oral sex), he gasped and asked me if I was "sure" because it was quite "early". We had been dating for 2 months. It was sweet of him to make sure that I didn't have any regrets, though.

It's one of the better components of our culture IMO, but it's a pity that it has to come with other sorts of cultural misogyny (that are different and IMO milder than in India, but misogyny nevertheless).

Edited March 11, 2020 by Elswyth

[2BGoodAgain]

sex is almost always more easier than intimacy.... for men and women...

just from my experience....

Edited March 11, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[Hopeful30]

23 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

sex is almost always more easier than intimacy.... for men and women...

just from my experience....

[SummerDreams]

53 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

sex is almost always more easier than intimacy.... for men and women...

just from my experience....

No woman wants a man who will take the easy way towards things. Life is not easy. Companionship is not easy. To keep a decent marriage going is one of the hardest things.