Backinthesaddleagain Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: I disagree. I didn't have to chase my H. You can't use logic to argue with what is hardwired into men and women. It's not a game - it's been the natural way of things. And I certainly don't work at McDonald's. Disagree all you want, but humans have evolved very rapidly the last few hundred years. We are becoming more sophisticated and logical with each passing second, and our global society reflects that. Many things that were primal and "natural" are getting pushed farther away from us as a whole- some for the better, and some not. And I'm not really sure why you felt the need to say you don't work at McDonald's? What a bizarre thing to add. I was making a statement about being an empowered woman, striving for happiness in life, and trying to be motivational for her. But since you brought it up, I'm sure you have an amazing career that you love. Good job, but I think you missed the entire point I was trying to make. 1
Author Hybrid Meteora Posted March 3, 2020 Author Posted March 3, 2020 No the conversation doesnt die as such. It's me not replying to his msg that doesn't warrant a reply. I've done that twice now and each time he initiates a new convo. He's just initiated today, I haven't replied just yet. He certainly seems to enjoy our chats, so I just don't know. I do want to chat, but I can't do it much longer with no plan. Men do not like to be perused, they may take advantage but they won't take the woman seriously. I just can't change my view on that, there's too much evidence. You might even think you'll like it, but I bet the woman you work a little more for will be the one really on your mind. 1
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) I really wish women had the ability to ask men out without facing these consequences because the men I like tend to be really shy/introverted guys that I prefer to meet irl and I have to wait a long time before they ask me but they do. I have no problems being forward, but I would not ask a guy out if we’ve been having solid convo for a week online and he hasn’t asked. I know that certain beliefs are still prevalent and it’s just not a good strategy for a woman to do it as it stands, even if they wanted a super passive guy like that. That is what I have observed and witnessed and I depend on that to navigate through the world, like everyone else does. I see people get burned and I see that they touch hot stovetop, I can put the logical pieces together of why that happened. Won’t do it when I don’t have to. Edited March 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough
smackie9 Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 It's all about reciprocating. I ask a guy out, he then asks me out. I have been taken advantage by some guys who had asked me out, but never when I asked them out. They are pleasantly surprised and admit they found it refreshing and quite delighted by it. It never felt I was devalued. Pawing at them and smothering them with texts sends you off their list, but having confidence in yourself doesn't. 2 1
Author Hybrid Meteora Posted March 3, 2020 Author Posted March 3, 2020 Cookies, how long do you personally wait to be asked? I get a shy/introvert/careful vibe with him rather than uninterested or player. I'm also introverted so I do get it. 1
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, smackie9 said: It's all about reciprocating. I ask a guy out, he then asks me out. I have been taken advantage by some guys who had asked me out, but never when I asked them out. They are pleasantly surprised and admit they found it refreshing and quite delighted by it. It never felt I was devalued. Pawing at them and smothering them with texts sends you off their list, but having confidence in yourself doesn't. It’s all about reciprocation!!! I will ask a guy out after he asks me out. I just want to know he likes me enough he’ll overcome his fears or any other obstacles and make the first move. That’s just me. But I also understand women who want the guy to ask out the first few dates. Just curious: smackie,, your d hubs, who asked who out first? ?? Edited March 3, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1
Backinthesaddleagain Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, smackie9 said: It's all about reciprocating. I ask a guy out, he then asks me out. I have been taken advantage by some guys who had asked me out, but never when I asked them out. They are pleasantly surprised and admit they found it refreshing and quite delighted by it. It never felt I was devalued. Pawing at them and smothering them with texts sends you off their list, but having confidence in yourself doesn't. See? smackie9 gets it. It's not about "chasing" a guy. No one likes to be smothered, stalked, or creeped out- this includes men too.
Gr8fuln2020 Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said: It’s all about reciprocation!!! I will ask a guy out after he asks me out. I just want to know he likes me enough he’ll overcome his fears or any other obstacles and make the first move. That’s just me. But I also understand women who want the guy to ask out the first few dates. Just curious: smackie,, your d hubs, who asked who out first? ?? RECIPROCITY! RECIPROCITY! Yes! But it does become a little silly in my mind waiting for the other to make the first move. If one is SO curious and would like to know sooner than later, just make the first move, right? No bullet has been bitten. No pride weakened. Nothing lost...unless you have an ego too big to appease. 2
CollinW Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 I don't necessarily care if women prefer to be "chased", pursue or whatever buzzword you want to call it. At the end of the day we all need to take control of our lives and women use the excuse of socialization and natural order as justification for lack of initiative, being scared of rejection and being flat out lazy. Those traits are not beneficial to men nor women. Relationships are just like every other area in life where you get out of it what you put in. So if you're lackadaisical to your approach to love then don't expect to succeed in it. Sitting around expecting men to read your minds is just as stupid as sitting around expecting recruiters with 6 figure jobs to find you. 4 1
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Hybrid Meteora said: Cookies, how long do you personally wait to be asked? I get a shy/introvert/careful vibe with him rather than uninterested or player. I'm also introverted so I do get it. Interesting! That was one of the ‘handful of exceptions’ from my first post. Some guys are very shy/cautious. To men I know/in person (my preference), I have waited a few weeks/seeing each other a few times and then they asked. But online changes the dynamic. First, being ‘behind a screen’ takes a lot of the approach anxiety out. Next, , I’m assuming he knows you’re already little interested at least because you matched and have been engaging in conversation. I usually give it about 10 back and forths if I get a cautious vibe before I lose interest. It usually doesn’t take longer than that if they ask. The interesting thing is that when you pull back is when they usually go in for the kill and ask so that they don’t miss an opportunity. 1
smackie9 Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said: It’s all about reciprocation!!! I will ask a guy out after he asks me out. I just want to know he likes me enough he’ll overcome his fears or any other obstacles and make the first move. That’s just me. But I also understand women who want the guy to ask out the first few dates. Just curious: smackie,, your d hubs, who asked who out first? ?? He did. He didn't give me a chance to ask him out. A few minutes we were introduced he ask me out. Edited March 3, 2020 by smackie9 1
Allupinnit Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 Forgive me, @CollinW but what do you mean by "read her mind"? Aren't they both on a dating site in the hopes of GOING ON A DATE? He knows what to do, he just isn't arsed. I, and other women here, and in fact including men I've spoken to have expressed that they prefer the man to pursue. My husband included. It worked for me. @Backinthesaddleagain - I was referring to this generalization that you made: Quote The people who are scared of rejection, worried about cultural norms, and all that garbage end up alone, working at McDonald's, and wondering why their life sucks. And that's just incorrect on all fronts. I'm not alone and I don't work at McDonald's LOL. 1
d0nnivain Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) I will give him the benefit of the doubt & assume he's shy / socially awkward. I can understand why you don't want to ask him out but I think you would help move the ball forward if you asked for his # so you can talk. Once you get him on the phone & have a nice chat for 20 minutes or so he should ask you out. I would drop some hints like pick a restaurant / meeting place between the two of you & ask if he's ever been there. That should give him the impetus to suggest you meet there. If he doesn't pick up those not so subtle hints, well he's either uninterested, taken & wasting your time or too dense to bother with. Edited March 3, 2020 by d0nnivain
SumGuy Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 I do love these universal truths, or at least of the universe others inhabit. To each their own...and if it works for you so be it. This whole men value women less who chase them, etc. is to me mainstream thinking. It may be the dominant cultural thought, one you must navigate,, but inherent, natural order? I’d really be careful as a women basing any arguments on the “natural order” of things and especially what has always been. If I recall history correct the natural order, the historical order, is for women to have no political or economic rights separate from a man, that women are just unsuited from many professions, etc. 2
Allupinnit Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 There is nothing natural about patriarchy, sorry. We're talking about asking a woman out on a damn date - can't men just do that without whining about the UNFAIRNESS of it all? Sheesh!
Backinthesaddleagain Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: @Backinthesaddleagain - I was referring to this generalization that you made: And that's just incorrect on all fronts. I'm not alone and I don't work at McDonald's LOL. So I said verbatim "The people who are scared of rejection, worried about cultural norms, and all that garbage end up alone, working at McDonald's, and wondering why their life sucks". It was a hyperbolic statement that was meant to get the OP thinking, and maybe motivate them to take charge of their dating life. Maybe I should have put "Some" in front of that sentence. I am sorry this struck such a nerve with you. Are you afraid of rejection in your daily life? Do you think your life sucks? Why do you think this statement was directed at you? I am glad you are not alone, many people aren't as fortunate. And for god's sake, enough with the McDonald's already. You don't work there, we get it. I am going to avoid getting further into this tit-for-tat, when my opinion was directed to the OP. Plus, it's only my opinion and you know how that goes... Respond if you wish, I am done with this nonsense. 1 1
Allupinnit Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 My life is fine - I come here to waste time only. Do you always get this defensive? What is going on in your life that the thought of asking a woman on a date is so terrifying?
CollinW Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Allupinnit said: I, and other women here, and in fact including men I've spoken to have expressed that they prefer the man to pursue. My husband included. It worked for me. And I and other men have expressed that they don't care what you "prefer". I don't think men care to date according to the terms or preferences of a stranger anymore, and you're seeing men date according to what they themselves "prefer". Not to compensate for the lack of social skills for entitled women. Which means some may chase, and some may not. Edited March 4, 2020 by CollinW 1
SumGuy Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Allupinnit said: There is nothing natural about patriarchy, sorry. We're talking about asking a woman out on a damn date - can't men just do that without whining about the UNFAIRNESS of it all? Sheesh! Did I say anything about unfairness? Not at all. I'm not whining. I have no problem asking women on dates do it all the time, never been turned down since back in dating (and it has nothing to do with keeping my man card, and everything to do with keeping my "can do" card). Also have no problem being asked out, and one of the best relationships of my life came from it. I admitted that the expectation men ask women out is very much a cultural norm and perfectly fine if that is what you like. It's really the reason for your preference. Natural order arguments are rife for abuse, even if there is a grain of truth in them...but it is only a grain. I won't defend patriarchy as "natural" (I don't think it is either) but it is based on views of natural gender roles, natural gender abilities, it has been the dominant form of societal organization by far since written history and before, it seems to arise everywhere with all humans, it is the dominant form of social organization in mammals with sexual dimorphism where the male is larger than the female, etc., etc., let alone for 1000's of years of people saying that it was the natural order and as far as I understand it can be found in the Abrahamic religions as a given. I'm sorry that you think patriarchy is not a natural human tendency, because if you ignore it it could well come back to your detriment. Not mine, heck I'd do fine in patriarchy. Why can't people just admit that these gender roles they prefer are almost always cultural, why does it need to be some natural order? You like men to ask you out, and are turned off by men who won't. Fair enough, go you.
basil67 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Why can't people just admit that these gender roles they prefer are almost always cultural, why does it need to be some natural order? People who say such things lack the ability to look outside their own culture and/or to look at history.
Allupinnit Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) Never mind. Edited March 4, 2020 by Allupinnit
hercules22 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 well i matched with this girl on 2 different dating apps what are the odds although my interest levels for her are very slim shes take a very long time to respond one time she took nearly a week sometimes writes a paragraph havnt really got to talk much besides a few exchanges its putting me off from asking her out as the conversation isn't flowing due to her taking a long time to reply
smackie9 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 4 hours ago, hercules22 said: well i matched with this girl on 2 different dating apps what are the odds although my interest levels for her are very slim shes take a very long time to respond one time she took nearly a week sometimes writes a paragraph havnt really got to talk much besides a few exchanges its putting me off from asking her out as the conversation isn't flowing due to her taking a long time to reply So you are saying in order to be asked out, women need to put in some effort and reply in a timely manner and reciprocate communication with some substance to it. Are you suggesting the OP isn't doing this and this is why the guy is being hesitant?
NuevoYorko Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 I find this thread to be disheartening. If people are so conditioned to do or not do whatever because they believe that genders are so "hardwired" that there are no choices, how can women even have careers, lead governments, not have babies, etc. They must not have got the memo that they can't because "hardwired." Look. If a person is not comfortable taking the lead in dating, there's no one telling them they need to. OTOH, it's pretty weird to hear women saying that they tried it and it "never works out." Well ... it wasn't going to work out if you didn't try and neither did the guy, so at least you gave it a shot. Some men are shy, some are passive, yes, the guy might not be "that into you" but you won't know if you won't try. Anyway, to the OP: Why not just say something like: "I'd like to meet you." if you're not going to suggest meeting, stop wasting your time with this "chatting" for hours a day. There are people who are happy just with that. It also sets the stage for a false intimacy when people meet. 1
hercules22 Posted March 5, 2020 Posted March 5, 2020 15 hours ago, smackie9 said: So you are saying in order to be asked out, women need to put in some effort and reply in a timely manner and reciprocate communication with some substance to it. Are you suggesting the OP isn't doing this and this is why the guy is being hesitant? op seems to be having more of a conversation then me like when i say long time it not a few hours im lucky to hear back from her either the next day or following day after the 6 day gap was really bad made my interest levels dip alot. i get people are busy or have alot options but doesn't make you feel wanted cant be that busy everyone always on there phones few hours is okay i am actually surprised he hasn't asked out a few hours in between replies isn't bad she said she actually asking questions back which is showing interest if it was me i would asked her out and that was my match keeping things flowing maybe that how this guy operates takes his time online everyone different i try to get some chat going then try get them out on date quick
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