Allupinnit Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Yeah that doesn't apply to my H and I at all, @RubySlippers. My H is the more patient, thoughtful one lol. I'd be surprised if that were actually true for 80% of couples nowadays. I also don't care that I make more - I do well and so does he and we both contribute equally to our lifestyle. 1 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: Yeah that doesn't apply to my H and I at all, @RubySlippers. My H is the more patient, thoughtful one lol. I'd be surprised if that were actually true for 80% of couples nowadays. I also don't care that I make more - I do well and so does he and we both contribute equally to our lifestyle. Right. I'm actually surprised by the generalizations, because most of the men I know who do well in relationships (and I am defining that as a person with a happy LTR/marriage, i.e. quality and not quantity) tend to have much the same qualities as women who do well in relationships - kindness, consideration, and selflessness are not gendered traits. How does one actually have a good relationship/marriage with a husband or long-term partner who makes it clear that they care about their own comfort and happiness more than yours? I don't think it's possible, although it is possible to have "a" relationship/marriage by just staying put while you're miserable, I suppose. But anyway, if a couple WANTS to have a relationship that adheres to these generalizations, and are both actually happy in it, more power to them. In the philosophical case we're talking about, these women are presumably not happy, otherwise it would not be a gripe. "Biology" (whether it is true or not) should never be a reason to stay in a relationship that makes you miserable. Edited February 27, 2020 by Elswyth 1 1
stillafool Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Elswyth said: How does one actually have a good relationship/marriage with a husband or long-term partner who makes it clear that they care about their own comfort and happiness more than yours? I don't think it's possible, although it is possible to have "a" relationship/marriage by just staying put while you're miserable, I suppose. I agree but most of those men have shown the women this before they married and yet women keep staying with these men or leaving and going back. At some point they need to take responsibility for their own happiness. 1 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Just now, stillafool said: I agree but most of those men have shown the women this before they married and yet women keep staying with these men or leaving and going back. At some point they need to take responsibility for their own happiness. I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't....
stillafool Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 . 1 minute ago, Elswyth said: I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't.... I didn't say "they" were. I said it. 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Just now, stillafool said: . I didn't say "they" were. I said it. I'm not sure what your point is. It seems you agree with me that people should leave in such a situation, yes?
Ruby Slippers Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, Elswyth said: "Biology" (whether it is true or not) should never be a reason to stay in a relationship that makes you miserable. I didn't suggest that. I was responding to @CautiouslyOptimistic's point that so many women she knows find themselves in relationships where it seems the man's comfort is prioritized. My hypothesis is that women tend to yield the prime spot on the throne for financial reasons - and my suggestion is that if women want to claim the prime spot for themselves, they focus on being self-sufficient so they can do what they want and prioritize themselves. 2 1
stillafool Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Elswyth said: I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't.... And, I'm not sure what your point was to my statement. But, 3 minutes ago, Elswyth said: It seems you agree with me that people should leave in such a situation, I definitely agree. 1 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Just now, Ruby Slippers said: I didn't suggest that. I was responding to @CautiouslyOptimistic's point that so many women she knows find themselves in relationships where it seems the man's comfort is prioritized. My hypothesis is that women tend to yield the prime spot on the throne for financial reasons - and my suggestion is that if women want to claim the prime spot for themselves, they focus on being self-sufficient so they can do what they want and prioritize themselves. I think there's a big difference between "not being self-sufficient" and "earning less". Yes, women do statistically earn less than men on average. Talking about the reasons why would derail the whole thread, but suffice to say that that is true. However, earning "less" does not mean that they cannot support themselves. The vast majority of childfree women in developed countries are, in fact, quite self-sufficient, because they would have had to be self-sufficient before they met their partner to begin with - the days of marrying someone at 16 are mostly over. With children things can change and indeed, if the woman is a SAHM or sacrifices her career to be the primary childcarer, she becomes financially dependent. But that's why some of us are urging the OP to be so careful - if you are considering the possibility of being financially dependent in the future, you MUST make sure that you are not going to be trapped into a situation like that, by choosing your mate very, very carefully. 2 1
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Elswyth said: Don't let those people get away with it! Oh it's not me (I'm single), but my friends. As an example, my one friend just moved in her very selfish 50++ year old BF. An example: He tells her it bother him when she talks during movies. It's what she does, but she tries to stop because it bothers him. He plays his guitar during movies and she tells him it bothers her, and he says, "but this is just what I do" and doesn't stop. She does speak up, but then they are just constantly fighting. This is just one example....he's very entitled and thinks everything should be his way and she should bend around it. 2 1 1 2
Ruby Slippers Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Elswyth said: I think there's a big difference between "not being self-sufficient" and "earning less". The point stands that many women make concessions to men for the financial benefits they get for doing so. Greater earning power gives women more freedom to concede less and demand more.
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said: The point stands that many women make concessions to men for the financial benefits they get for doing so. Greater earning power gives women more freedom to concede less and demand more. I agree that financial independence is important. I don't really agree that in "80%" of those situations, the women are staying with crappy men solely because of finances - a difference of a few thousand dollars a year is not a good enough reason IMO. I think the main reason why women stay in relationships like that is because they have been socialized to prioritize the man's comfort and happiness, and not their own. 1 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said: Oh it's not me (I'm single), but my friends. As an example, my one friend just moved in her very selfish 50++ year old BF. An example: He tells her it bother him when she talks during movies. It's what she does, but she tries to stop because it bothers him. He plays his guitar during movies and she tells him it bothers her, and he says, "but this is just what I do" and doesn't stop. She does speak up, but then they are just constantly fighting. This is just one example....he's very entitled and thinks everything should be his way and she should bend around it. That's awfully sad.
stillafool Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 I 3 minutes ago, Elswyth said: I think the main reason why women stay in relationships like that is because they have been socialized to prioritize the man's comfort and happiness, and not their own. I think they stay because they don't want to be alone. 1 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Just now, stillafool said: I think they stay because they don't want to be alone. True, that is another possibility.
Allupinnit Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 27 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said: Oh it's not me (I'm single), but my friends. As an example, my one friend just moved in her very selfish 50++ year old BF. An example: He tells her it bother him when she talks during movies. It's what she does, but she tries to stop because it bothers him. He plays his guitar during movies and she tells him it bothers her, and he says, "but this is just what I do" and doesn't stop. She does speak up, but then they are just constantly fighting. This is just one example....he's very entitled and thinks everything should be his way and she should bend around it. Yeah see I wouldn't have married that guy. I once dated a super hot guy around the holidays. I went and bought a Christmas tree and he was over when I decorated it. He sat on the couch and watched weight lifting videos as I decorated my tree by myself. I knew there and then it would be only a fling. 1
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: Yeah see I wouldn't have married that guy. I once dated a super hot guy around the holidays. I went and bought a Christmas tree and he was over when I decorated it. He sat on the couch and watched weight lifting videos as I decorated my tree by myself. I knew there and then it would be only a fling. They are not married. And that totally sounds like something he would do as well!
Miss Spider Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) Yea they stay for a variety of reasons I’m sure. Men put up with a lot of bs too though, please don’t get it twist. Men are probably just likely to speak up about it. My mom’s sisters are extremely crazy, extremely extra Korean women. My mom is really the only sane one and my parent’s the only happy marriage on that side.. They’re all married to Americsn men who are the breadwinners, but my aunt’s are still very demanding. Talking down, yelling until they get their way and they when they do complaining it’s not good enough, making them do stuff for them, pretty much publicly humiliating them. My uncles still sing their praises. Maybe the cultural barrier makes them more tolerant. But yes the patriarchal set up is probably overall more prevalent still Edited February 27, 2020 by Cookiesandough 1
Els Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 59 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Men are probably just likely to speak up about it. My mom’s sisters are extremely crazy, extremely extra Korean women IME (as an East Asian woman myself :laugh: ), traditional East Asian culture can be pretty brutal on the men. They are expected to be the primary breadwinner while the wife "rules the roost" at home - in the culture I grew up in, it wasn't uncommon for a husband to give his wife his whole paycheck, and she'd give him an "allowance" out of it based on what she thinks he needs to spend. It's also a lot more socially acceptable to nag or degrade your husband, even in public, compared to Western cultures. (There are of course parts of the culture that are terrible for women too. My main takeaway was that adhering blindly to tradition wasn't a great idea, and I hope I've succeeded in mostly getting out of it, lol.) 1 1
stillafool Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said: Yea they stay for a variety of reasons I’m sure. Men put up with a lot of bs too though, please don’t get it twist. Men are probably just likely to speak up about it. My mom’s sisters are extremely crazy, extremely extra Korean women. My mom is really the only sane one and my parent’s the only happy marriage on that side.. They’re all married to Americsn men who are the breadwinners, but my aunt’s are still very demanding. Talking down, yelling until they get their way and they when they do complaining it’s not good enough, making them do stuff for them, pretty much publicly humiliating them. My uncles still sing their praises. Maybe the cultural barrier makes them more tolerant. But yes the patriarchal set up is probably overall more prevalent still I know couples like this also where the wives talk down to their husbands like they are their child. These women are also being financially supported by those men. These people are all born American married to born Americans. Edited February 27, 2020 by stillafool 2
justwhoiam Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Just now, justwhoiam said: What a lame excuse for hearing complaints about jerks. You know what? If that was HER ticket and HER trip, and she paid for it, and this lame guy was reselling it, I'd want double the price I paid. If he thinks he's smart, he'll learn a lesson. And oh, if it was a gift, what a heck of gift is it? Either way, this guy sucks big time. 1
nittygritty Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, justwhoiam said: What a lame excuse for hearing complaints about jerks. You know what? If that was HER ticket and HER trip, and she paid for it, and this lame guy was reselling it, I'd want double the price I paid. If he thinks he's smart, he'll learn a lesson. If she has that much hostility towards him then she should definitely dump him and go back to her own place. Take the dog and/or cat with her. Too toxic of an environment
Shining One Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, justwhoiam said: If that was HER ticket and HER trip, and she paid for it, and this lame guy was reselling it, I'd want double the price I paid. This seems unnecessarily petty. In my case, I had paid for the entire trip (minus gas since my car wasn't used in the end) that my girlfriend and her sister ended up going on. I did not ask for nor expect compensation, let alone double compensation. I'd rather see the already paid for trip utilized than go to waste.
justwhoiam Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Shining One said: This seems unnecessarily petty. In my case, I had paid for the entire trip (minus gas since my car wasn't used in the end) that my girlfriend and her sister ended up going on. I did not ask for nor expect compensation, let alone double compensation. I'd rather see the already paid for trip utilized than go to waste. Very nice of you. But I guess your case is different? There was harmony in decision-making. While in this case, he's doing as he pleases, no matter what. 1
I'veseenbetterlol Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Elswyth said: Right. I'm actually surprised by the generalizations, because most of the men I know who do well in relationships (and I am defining that as a person with a happy LTR/marriage, i.e. quality and not quantity) tend to have much the same qualities as women who do well in relationships - kindness, consideration, and selflessness are not gendered traits. How does one actually have a good relationship/marriage with a husband or long-term partner who makes it clear that they care about their own comfort and happiness more than yours? I don't think it's possible, although it is possible to have "a" relationship/marriage by just staying put while you're miserable, I suppose. But anyway, if a couple WANTS to have a relationship that adheres to these generalizations, and are both actually happy in it, more power to them. In the philosophical case we're talking about, these women are presumably not happy, otherwise it would not be a gripe. "Biology" (whether it is true or not) should never be a reason to stay in a relationship that makes you miserable. Agree here. There are great caring men out there and crappy women. Sadly in OP's situation, that's how the guy is. She can either look for something better or accept that he will never be caring towards her. 2
Recommended Posts